HP Accused of Spying on Dell 82
An anonymous reader writes "An ex-HP exec claims he was instructed by the company's management to spy on Dell's printer business plans. Karl Kamb, previously HP's vice president of business development and strategy, was named as a defendant in a federal lawsuit filed by HP in 2005, after he allegedly began his own company before leaving HP. Kamb, who has denied any wrongdoing, filed a countersuit in US District Court for the Eastern District of Texas claiming he was fired because of shading dealings involved in the corporate espionage. From the article: 'As a member of HP's imaging and printing group's "competitive intelligence team", Kamb said he was in a position to know that HP senior executives signed off on a plan to pay [Former Dell Japan President Katsumi] Iizuka to obtain details of what Dell was up to. Iizuka turned over the information to Kamb and he passed it along to HP, Kamb claimed.'"
All bureaucracies tend this way... (Score:5, Interesting)
To see these organizations spying is not a shock. If you let them continue to grow they will each run up against each other and start trying to find ways to subsume the others. It doesn't really matter to the consumer since each one is pretty much the sum of its parts...
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This is interesting. I can't help but think of governments, which are the ultimate in large bureaucracies. If success is a criteria for an organization to begin exhibiting "immoral" attributes, then is the key to prevent your government from acting immorally to make sure your government is not "successful"? And if that is the case, how does one define success for a
Re:All bureaucracies tend this way... (Score:4, Insightful)
That is of course precisely what I intended to suggest. Spying is something every government does every day.
If you define success for the organization itself - not that which it serves, but simply that which is good for the entity - then it can only be through longevity, proliferation, and security.
Well there's [at least] two conclusions you could quickly and yet reasonably come to. One is that a government actually capable of serving its citizens wouldn't be large because the needs of the people do not include large government. The Federal Government of the USA is the largest employer in the nation, with Wal-Mart in the #2 spot. Does this really serve the people?
The other is that yes, the very existence of government leads to an immoral government over time, simply because it is a bureaucracy, and that's what bureaucracies do. They consolidate and preserve power.
Besides other possible conclusions there's a third view that lies somewhere in between; government will proliferate but if you force it to stay smaller then it more accurately serves the will of the people. In cases where the public does not agree on a course of action, and no one is being harmed, the government should do nothing. This is of course not how the system has worked over time. Law seeks to erase ambiguities but life is about them in a very real way and in any case is made up of them. Very few things are black and white in this world (newspapers stand out as a glaring exception. thanks, I'll be here all week.)
The problem is that not enough limits are placed on government. The constitution didn't explicitly say that anything not in the document can be shoved straight up your ass. Or that no amendment shall be passed which limits your rights. Only one amendment like that has ever been passed so far; prohibition. As we know, it was repealed. But there are occasionally calls for others and sooner or later one of them will pass.
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And this is exactly why the forefathers included the 2nd Amendment. The explicit purpose of keeping "a well regulated militia" and preserving "the right of the people to keep and bear arms" was to keep the government in check with the threat of being overthrown by the people should the need arise. Thomas
bureaucracy != corporate espionage (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't expect large companies to behave ethically (small companies maybe). They'll do whatever they like without regard to anyone else. I do expect companies to behave within the bounds of the law. They often don't of course, but my point is that illegal behaviour isn't a given for a company.
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I disagree. As your organization grows larger, even if there is morality at the top, it can't peter down all the way to the bottom. Some of the individuals lower down the tree will do things to help them move upwards.
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Psychologists actually deem this to be a disorder and have other names f
I remember when... (Score:5, Interesting)
HP actually _made_ excellent printers.
Now, HP spys on its customers and competeters printer habits.
Their stock value should reflect this better.
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I ended up buying a Samsung laser of all things with Christmas bestbuy giftcards as I wanted a laser, it works with linux and was only $80. The HP sitting next to it wasn't as sturdy.
Agreed. (Score:3, Insightful)
defacto brute force printer of the world. Sure they weigh a ton.
You can FEEL the quality.
That is why many companies still pay to fix them. They are built
rock solid. The new crap, is well, crap. Smaller toner cartridges,
worse performance etc.
Sadly, HP seems to be going the way of the dinosaurs. They make
cheaply built crap now, at premium prices. Thanks Carly. Yes, I
lay blame where it belongs.
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The printer has been solid, the drivers are WAY better than the IBM/Lexmark stuff. We're an IBM BP, so i mostly have to deal with IBM/Lexmark printers, and i prefer HP printers. Everything from the WebUI, to the drivers is better, offers more options, causes less problems, and the service is better too.
Of course, all desk printers i've ever encountered suck. That's why you buy workgroup printers.
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Dell doesn't make printers! They simply rebrand Lexmark printers, and Lexmark printers suck. Why would HP want to emulate such crappy hardware?
Comment removed (Score:3, Interesting)
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What?
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On the other hand, hiring Carly was exactly opposed to what needed to be done.
It may not have caused HP to slide into the toilet, but I'm pretty sure the hand on the lever was attached to one C. Fiorina.
As someone who saw NCR's implosion by AT&T... (Score:2)
On the other hand, hiring Carly was exactly opposed to what needed to be done.
It may not have caused HP to slide into the toilet, but I'm pretty sure the hand on the lever was attached to one C. Fiorina.
The lever handler only changed when it got to Hurd. Now if they'd merge with NCR and drop the HP name, there might be some way to save both in one shot. Heck, it'd even have a chance at revitalizing the Indecision State [wikipedia.org] of the Midwest.
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More spying (Score:2)
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In spite of this. (Score:1)
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My head almost exploded trying to parse this "sentence". Can anyone diagram this sentence and post it on the internet? sheesh.
More spying? (Score:4, Funny)
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Corporate espionage (Score:2)
I actually worked for a small graphic design company in San Francisco that tried it. It's pretty common in these kinds of firms for some of
Crappy printers (Score:2)
Wouldn't be an easier method to sell more to try not to overprice the ink for their printers than to spy on others business?
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Eastern District of Texas (Score:5, Informative)
A lawsuit in the Eastern District of Texas is almost always associated with patent trolling, since the Eastern District of Texas certainly doesn't have much in the way of large cities, large corporations, or large R&D departments. Why it exists is a pretty decent question.
Forum Shopping (Score:2)
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And yet... (Score:2)
Personally I hope both HP and Dell fail
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Tried a newer distro of Linux?
When I finaly retired Windows 98 and loaded Ubuntu on a machine on my LAN, it fould both my older HP printers just fine.
Personally I hope both HP and Dell fail
I am aiming that way quickly. My wife got a Dell printer with her new (not anymore) XP computer. We about fell over laughing when we saw the size of the print carts. We looked up the price of the replacements. They were the same price as the carts for the H
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Canon seems happy to be a niche player, with no interest in expanding. Maybe that will change, but not anytime soon.
And I've got news for you if you think Canon printer drivers are going to be any better than the experience you've had...
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Which experiance; Dell or HP?
I was under the impression that Cannon printers were used on Apple computers and such unlike the Dell which are Windows only.
I just jumped over to Cannon's website and picked a random model and went to driver downloads. The i950 has these drivers ready for download.
Add-on Module for Printe
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Oh, like the average Goodwill shopper can afford the print carts - next time just cut out the middle man and take it straight to the recycler.
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No biggy (Score:3, Insightful)
Why are we pretending this is a big deal? The settlement (in millions) will still be less than the severance package of
a top executive. Neither company's reputation is in the least bit tarnished in the public eye, and the whole thing
will blow over (in fact, it already has). This isn't politics, its corporate America. Was it pathetic, wrong and lame?
Uh, Yeah. You new here?
The Quest for Knowledge (Score:4, Insightful)
Actually they were wondering if anyone at Dell had managed to get a printer working with Windows.
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Funny thing you mentioned that. When my wife got a Dell printer with her Dell XP computer a few years ago, we found it came with drivers for XP and 2K only. On my home LAN the wife's XP was the only PC that could use the printer unlike the HP printers already on the LAN. We donated the printer to Goodwill when it ran out of ink and reclaimed the desk space.
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the news is that they got caught or outed (Score:3, Insightful)
It's not spying! (Score:2)
It's unauthorized interloping. Kind of like pretexting isn't lying.
And I'm sure Kamb didn't steal company secrets, he merely relocated them to a more secure area.
FTA:
While still employed by HP, these former high-level employees and their co-conspirators covertly organised and began operating a competing business venture using HP's resources, contacts and trade secrets," HP claimed in court documents.
Inveterate Prevaricator:
Competing busines venture? Compete is such a strong word... I prefer
Does it matetr? dell printers are other companies (Score:1)
Re:Does it matetr? dell printers are other compani (Score:2)
Next thing you're going to tell me is that Dell doesn't actually make it's own processors or hard drives!
What?
Spying...okay or not okay? (Score:1)
Still, if a responsible business such as HP chooses to pay a third party for information, I see little excu
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Globalization (Score:1, Funny)
It would be interesting to get some former HP employees executed and their organs supplied ("voluntarily", of course, as in case of all the executed Chinese criminals) to the growing Chinese organ transplant business, aimed mostly for international clients.
Should have used genuine spies. (Score:5, Funny)
relabeling (Score:3, Funny)
I think its funny.... (Score:1)
Actually (Score:2, Informative)
HP got confused by the... (Score:1)
Spying?? (Score:2)