Microsoft Deploys 'Harmful Design' Tricks To Push Edge, Say Mozilla Researchers (pcmag.com) 64
Mozilla claims in a new 74-page research report that Microsoft "repeatedly uses harmful design" and "dark patterns" to push users toward Microsoft Edge and away from rival browsers like Mozilla's Firefox or Google's Chrome browser. PCMag: "Microsoft uses the harmful preselection, visual interference, trick wording, and disguised ads patterns to skew user choice," the report argues, adding that "Microsoft's harmful design practices mean users are unable to download, install, use, or set as default an alternative browser without interference." The researchers claim this harms consumers because they can experience "distortion of choice," lose trust in the broader tech industry, and even possibly experience "emotional distress" as a result of Microsoft's efforts.
For the study, user experiences were tested on Windows 10 Home and Windows 11 Pro as well as the Windows 11 Home Insider Preview Version. The UK-based testers did not attempt to use a VPN to change or hide their IP addresses during their investigation. While Microsoft recently said it will allow users in the European Union to uninstall Edge as part of its efforts to comply with the Digital Markets Act (DMA), it's unclear whether US, UK, or other users around the globe could ever get the same option. Some Windows 11 users can remove five other apps that come preinstalled, however.
For the study, user experiences were tested on Windows 10 Home and Windows 11 Pro as well as the Windows 11 Home Insider Preview Version. The UK-based testers did not attempt to use a VPN to change or hide their IP addresses during their investigation. While Microsoft recently said it will allow users in the European Union to uninstall Edge as part of its efforts to comply with the Digital Markets Act (DMA), it's unclear whether US, UK, or other users around the globe could ever get the same option. Some Windows 11 users can remove five other apps that come preinstalled, however.
shocker (Score:5, Insightful)
That said, Windows is going to be like this forever, it was sort of Satya's wisdom. Tracking, "free stuff", removal of choice.
If you really don't like being manipulated like this, there's really only one choice.
Re: (Score:2)
In other news, water is wet.
In a way, it is comforting to know that some things in life are constant.
Re: (Score:2)
Tracking, "free stuff", removal of choice.
And Apple is any different? You're taught to install software from the App Store, but notably, there are no browsers in it.
Re:shocker (Score:5, Funny)
HBI was clearly referring to OS/2 warp.
Re: (Score:3)
Yes, Apple does pre-install their browser. And the App Store is the "preferred" method for software, and NOT where you'll find alternate browsers ... but never has my system bugged me about making Safari my default browser again after I've installed an alternate. Nor did it make me go through any type of "are you sure?" type prompts along the way.
Re: shocker (Score:1)
Plenty of alternative browsers in the Mac and iOS App Store including Opera, Maxthon and quite a few VPN/privacy browsers. Chrome and Firefox is on iOS as well.
Itâ(TM)s got nothing to do with whether Apple allows it, but the fact that App Store apps are sandboxed. I know both Chrome and Firefox get really annoying about providing access to location and other local stuff that I have to keep saying no to, which the App Store would require them to listen to a permanent manual on/off switch.
Re: (Score:2)
> I know both Chrome and Firefox get really annoying about providing access to location and other local stuff that I have to keep saying no to, which the App Store would require them to listen to a permanent manual on/off switch.
Firefox > Settings > Security and Privacy > Location > Block new requests asking to access your location
Re: (Score:3)
On the MAc, Apple never tried to trick me into using their own equivalent applications. They were very happy to let me use Microsoft's inferior office apps, or to user compilers and IDEs that were not Xcode, and so forth. I never saw an Apple advertisement on the Mac, whereas by default Windows 11 comes with ads for apps on the very first open of the Start menu.
I don't have this issue on Linux. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Indeed. Why would you use a vastly inferior product if you do not have to?
Re: (Score:3)
But even Ubuntu is trying to join the tracking generation of OS vendors by forcing users to signup for Ubuntu Pro. Their updates have to come from the Mothership.
The choices are once again becoming narrower and narrower.
Re: (Score:2)
How is Ubuntu forcing users to sign up for that?
I am using Ubuntu 22.04 and I feel zero pressure and see zero mention of it anywhere. I forgot it was even a thing until I read your post just now.
Re: (Score:2)
Then do not use Ubuntu. There are tons of other Debian-derived distros (and Debian itself) and even more other distros, quite a few of them pretty good. And most of them run most Linux software and most general Unix software.
Re: weird (Score:2)
If you type in a search at the start menu, it will use Edge unless you hack the registry. That browser is difficult for most people to escape.
Re: (Score:3)
I'm quite surprised that you believe this.
Re: (Score:2)
Yup, I had Edge pop up just yesterday, despite my having uninstalled it earlier. Links from some locations default to Edge no matter what your prefered browser is. And not just Edge the too-tightly-integrated-to-remove widget embedded in a different application, but full Edge standalone browser. Which led to momentary confusion, I didn't expect a different browser, and was wondering why my normal browser opened a new window and looked funny.
Re: (Score:2)
How about Mozilla's own issues (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:How about Mozilla's own issues (Score:5, Interesting)
Firefox was also stupid.
The Seamonkey suite was a far more useful bit of software because so many users still need(ed) a good mail client. Other stuff like composer, and chatzilla might have been blot in the eyes of some but if you did not open them they zero impact on performance, probably did not even add more to the memory foot print than opening one more tab with blank.html displayed in it.
None of this is to say that the major improvements to the browser engine were not needed, and did not happen, but the entire Mozilla/Seamonkey Suite -> Firefox feature drop and re-brand was always a misfeature. FF should never have happened!
If you want to understand where Mozilla went wrong from a product/marketing strategy standpoint it was all the way back there!
Re: (Score:2)
The Seamonkey suite
This software is a joke. It is bad at everything because it tries to do everything and fails.
Like most all modern web browser, so I guess they were just ahead of the curve.
Re: (Score:3)
Sure, but it was far and away the best at everything 20 years ago when they abandon it essentially.
Look at the competition from that time - Outlook Express, and Pegasus Mail? All of the Unix/X clients were so bad people chose to use Pine.
For 'News' which was already basically dead, for any non porn/piracy use at the time, there were better options, but News was already over.
Composer - was still fine to throw a quick static page together with some decent formatting for a zero knowlege user.
It had all the ta
Re: (Score:3)
The XULocolypse was hands down one of the most bone-headed moves I've ever seen an open source project commit. In one fell move it killed off almost its entire extension ecosystem forcing devs to rewrite.
And most did not rewrite. And many of us users left because the extensions we relied on where not on firefox anymore but had gone to chrome.
And its a shame. We need alternatives to the chrome engine for the industry to be healthy. We ALMOST had a new one when microsoft had its original non-chromium edge eng
Re: (Score:2)
Irrelevant (Score:1)
Firefox has a market share so low you might as well not even count them. https://gs.statcounter.com/bro... [statcounter.com]
3.3% of the browser market as of last month. Short of some miracle they aren't going to recover.
Re: (Score:3)
An interest in being the best browser might alter that rapidly. Of course, they proved to be poor stewards of market share when they did have that.
Re: (Score:3)
Chrome is largely to blame there, thanks to nasty anti-competitive practices not unlike the shit Microsoft is pulling with Edge.
FireFox is essential to the health of the web. Use it everywhere you can. As a bonus, you'll be able to use uBlock Origin on mobile.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
So many times I had to uninstall chrome from my mom's computer, because it would automatically install itself and set itself to the default every time the antivirus would update its version. Sure, it wasn't Chrome installing itself, but it certainly partnered with the antivirus vendor to do this.
Opt-out should not be allowed. All software installations shoudl be opt-in. Anything that requires additional actions to opt-out is manipulative, especially to those who may be elderly or not highly computer liter
the irony ... (Score:3, Interesting)
... microsoft uses harmful design to push users to edge, while mozilla uses stupid design to alienate users away from firefox.
Re: (Score:2)
Do you have anything specific, or is this just the typical thoughtless nonsense?
Re: (Score:2)
For me, the moment I relegated Firefox to backup browser was when the ESR version became the bloated seperate processes version.
I have a 4GB RAM laptop and it usurped over half of it doing nothing. I liked the containers function in it to make Pale Moon the backup for a while before that, but now Pale Moon is main again, and I haven't needed Firefox at all since a couple of updates to PM months ago. Multiple windows with a slew of tabs and it still plays nice with a maximum of 2GB RAM.
For anyone: don't both
Re:the irony ... (Score:4, Insightful)
FireFox is generally lighter on resources than Edge and Chrome. I've had no problems at all using it on older systems with 2GB of RAM.
don't bother with the buy more RAM or better laptop excuses
You won't find me saying anything like that. Though if you are stuck with older hardware, you'd do well to invest in a solid-state drive. Prices are ridiculously low right now. For less than $10 I was able to replace a 128GB drive in an older computer. The difference in performance was startling.
Re: (Score:2)
I actually did install SSD when the HDD began to break down last year. It made for a nice speed upgrade because IO and RAM are the two bottlenecks with the daily light load it runs.
It wasn't as cheap as that because the cheapest drive of 500GB from not an obscure brand was a little less than 30â.
Re: (Score:2)
do you something to say or is this just to share that you are a sad and bitter person?
Re: (Score:2)
So ... you've got nothing. Color me surprised.
Re: (Score:2)
what can i say, sucks to be you but i'm guessing you already know that.
Re: (Score:2)
That's just sad. Called out on your bullshit, all you have are anachronistic grade-school insults. I almost feel bad for you.
Re: (Score:2)
what bullshit? you just barked at a statement you didn't agree with, which is fine, but then somehow expected that barking would entitle you to some extra detail, attention or conversation, ofc without contributing anything yourself. well, it doesn't. btw curious way of saving firefox from its own irrelevance, it's just a worn meme by now ...
Re: (Score:2)
I see you also have trouble reading. I'll explain this just once, then you're on your own.
microsoft uses harmful design to push users to edge,
What harmful designs? (I actually list some harmful designs in another post. Something you apparently can't do.)
while mozilla uses stupid design to alienate users away from firefox.
What "stupid designs" do you believe are alienating users? That you can't name anything specific is very telling.
Pathetic.
Re: (Score:2)
I see you also have trouble reading.
nope, your trolling was very clear, i didn't bite, get over it.
also, mozilla and no one else made firefox irrelevant, you'll have to get over that too :-p
Re: (Score:2)
You still have nothing, eh? That's beyond pathetic!
You're such a fucking joke.
Re: (Score:2)
hey, aren't those "anachronistic grade-school insults" ? do you "almost feel bad for you"?
Re: (Score:2)
I try to meet people on their level. You're not capable of any better, so that's all you get.
Re: (Score:2)
dude, you're boring the fishes.
Re: (Score:2)
Firefox's antipathy towards its long-time users is well known. While some haven't forgiven Mozilla for the XUL fiasco, most of us are mostly fine with that and the current state of addons now. But it's the UI changes that kill me. They jumped all over themselves to make Firefox look just like Chrome, and the devs seem to have a fetish with removing as many options as possible. I'm not sure the reasoning, but maybe it's about the mythical new user? I dunno. Mozilla's bread and butter come from long-time
Re: (Score:2)
Firefox's antipathy towards its long-time users is well known.
There is antipathy towards a vocal minority on Slashdot who hate any and all changes, regardless of the merit. Mozilla have been very good about listening and responding to the needs of their users, basing UI changes actual user behavior. I haven't agreed with every change, of course, but that doesn't mean I'm being ignored.
But it's the UI changes that kill me. They jumped all over themselves to make Firefox look just like Chrome
I switched from Chrome back to FireFox when they made that change. It was absolutely the right call. You don't retain users when your software looks and feels out-of-date. The UI
Re: (Score:2)
Too funny about being modded down.
You ask what configs they removed and I told you.
Like I said, I like firefox and use it. Despite all the changes that Mozilla throws into Firefox. I'll continue to use it as long as I can customize it. I've been a long time user of Firefox from the very beginning (I can't quite remember it's initial name). And I used Mozilla from its beginning too.
You claim Firefox has a simpler and more intuitive UI than Chrome, but I cannot see much overall difference, frankly, at leas
Re: (Score:2)
You ask what configs they removed and I told you.
I'm not seeing anything specific in your post. I'm guessing this is because there's nothing specific in your post.
You claim Firefox has a simpler and more intuitive UI than Chrome, but I cannot see much overall difference
The guy who obsesses over UI changes so minor that I need to dig through change logs to find them can't see any significant difference between the Chrome and FireFox UI? Get real.
The fact of the matter is Firefox's mindshare is steadily decreasing
The cause is obvious: anti-competitive and deceptive practices from both Google and Microsoft. Microsoft pushes Edge with full-screen post-update screens that users need to read carefully to avoid setting Edge as the
Re: the irony ... (Score:2)
I don't necessarily recommend Firefox to others, though. It doesn't offer a non-technical user much compared to Chrome with the same addons.
This.
I'm a long-time Firefox user and, although it has got worse and worse, for all the reasons people already mention, I still think it's better than the alternatives.
However, long gone are the days where I would install it as the default for any family, friends and customers (much to their approval, I hasten to add).
That's when Firefox lost the game. When they stopped being the browser that we techies recommended.
Thank you, Captain Obvious (Score:2)
Of course that's what they're doing.
And nobody can stop them, either. It's a sad fact of life that Microsoft is too large to be concerned with any ruling to the contrary regarding the inclusion of their embedded browser. After all, they're more powerful than any government as proven by history.
Just live with it.
To grab me, Edge could simply fix Google's FUP (Score:1)
To grab me, Edge could simply fix Google's FUP with tab switching.
Google's geniuses decided that switching tabs is something one needs to do with a mouse.
LRU switching, they said, is not needed, since it can be done by plugins.
Later on, they've disabled option to have ctrl+tab handled by plugins...
Firefox and Opera still support it (thank god), but neither of those is available in corporate environments, at least not where I work.
Edge, on the other hand...
Re: (Score:2)
CTRL-PgDown / CTRL-PgUp. Geez...
And before you ask: Reposition the current tab using CTRL-SHIFT-PgDn / CTRL-SHIFT-PgUp.
Re: (Score:2)
Nobody with more than 5 digits in their slashdot ID has dedicated PgUp PgDn keys.
Obviously (Score:4, Interesting)
Microsoft never has cared about their users in all of its existence, they will not start now. As it is currently becoming more and more obvious that Microsoft does not have what it takes to be a real competitor in the current market and with the current pressures regarding security, reliability, usability and innovation, they obviously turn to manipulation tactics to keep users from actually moving to better offerings. Cannot compete on merit? Cheat!
All this means is that Microsoft is pretty far advanced in the enshittification cycle. I hope they will not get another decade to push their crap and since their cloud has already gotten fully compromised once (something that is hard to top in incompetence), I am pretty confident they will not. Obviously, they will take long to die, but die they will.
Re: (Score:2)
> I hope they will not get another decade to push their crap
Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment
Re: (Score:2)
Are you incapable of recognizing a figure of speech?
MS still forcing their browser !! (Score:2)
Yes, but... (Score:2)
If only there was a legitimately equivalent competitor to the Chrome browsers that didn't do that. Firefox isn't.
I change to Firefox every 3 months or so to try out. I always run into the following gripes :
1. Android - the browser sucks so hard on Android, I can justify using it there compared to Chrome
2. iPadOS - at the moment it is a reskin of Safari, with a user interface that is less optimized for use on the iPad than Safari itself. So why not use Safari
3. Windows - Edge now has a feature stack that Fir