Hacktivism Erupts In Response To Hamas-Israel War (techcrunch.com) 340
An anonymous reader quotes a report from TechCrunch: Several groups of hacktivists have targeted Israeli websites with floods of malicious traffic following a surprise land, sea and air attack launched against Israel by militant group Hamas on Saturday, which prompted Israel to declare war and retaliate. Israeli newspaper The Jerusalem Post reported Monday that since Saturday morning its website was down "due to a series of cyberattacks initiated against us." At the time of writing, the paper's website still appeared down.
Rob Joyce, director of cybersecurity at the National Security Agency, reportedly said at a conference on Monday that there have been denial of service (DDoS) attacks and defacements of websites, without attributing the cyberattacks to particular groups. "But we're not yet seeing real [nation] state malicious actors," Joyce reportedly said. [...] Joyce's remarks appear to confirm findings of security researcher Will Thomas, who told TechCrunch that he has seen more than 60 websites taken down with DDoS attacks, and more than five websites that were defaced as of Monday.
It is common for hacktivist groups to launch cyberattacks during armed conflict, similar to what happened in Ukraine. These hackers are often not affiliated with any governments but rather a decentralized group of politically motivated hackers. Their activities can disrupt websites and services, but are far more limited compared to the activities of nation-state hacking groups. Researchers and government agencies like the NSA say they have only seen activity by hacktivists so far in this Hamas-Israel conflict. "The thing that has surprised me about the hacktivism surrounding this conflict is the amount of international groups involved, such as those allegedly from Bangladesh, Pakistan, and Morocco all also targeting Israel in support of Palestine," said Thomas. "We also seen long-time threat actors returning who have participated in attacks and spread them using the hashtag #OpIsrael for years."
"I have seen several posts of cybercriminal service operators such as DDoS-for-Hire or Initial Access Brokers offering their services to those wanting to target Israel or Palestine," he added.
Rob Joyce, director of cybersecurity at the National Security Agency, reportedly said at a conference on Monday that there have been denial of service (DDoS) attacks and defacements of websites, without attributing the cyberattacks to particular groups. "But we're not yet seeing real [nation] state malicious actors," Joyce reportedly said. [...] Joyce's remarks appear to confirm findings of security researcher Will Thomas, who told TechCrunch that he has seen more than 60 websites taken down with DDoS attacks, and more than five websites that were defaced as of Monday.
It is common for hacktivist groups to launch cyberattacks during armed conflict, similar to what happened in Ukraine. These hackers are often not affiliated with any governments but rather a decentralized group of politically motivated hackers. Their activities can disrupt websites and services, but are far more limited compared to the activities of nation-state hacking groups. Researchers and government agencies like the NSA say they have only seen activity by hacktivists so far in this Hamas-Israel conflict. "The thing that has surprised me about the hacktivism surrounding this conflict is the amount of international groups involved, such as those allegedly from Bangladesh, Pakistan, and Morocco all also targeting Israel in support of Palestine," said Thomas. "We also seen long-time threat actors returning who have participated in attacks and spread them using the hashtag #OpIsrael for years."
"I have seen several posts of cybercriminal service operators such as DDoS-for-Hire or Initial Access Brokers offering their services to those wanting to target Israel or Palestine," he added.
They are helping terrorists (Score:4, Insightful)
Hamas is targeting civilians. They have murdered hundreds, tortured untold numbers, and kidnapped scores.
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Desperate people take desperate actions. Israel has been swiping their land and cutting off commerce. Bibi is a fucking bully.
Re:They are helping terrorists (Score:5, Insightful)
Bibi is an a-hole, but Yitzak Rabin and Ehud Barak were not.
Barak offered the Palestinians a comprehensive deal that would be unimaginable today, and they responded by launching the 2nd Intifada.
Skip peace deals (Score:5, Insightful)
Forget the fucking peace deals, Just give their 1966 land back. In a generation or two they'll calm down. The angry frothers will eventually die off.
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Forget the fucking peace deals, Just give their 1966 land back. In a generation or two they'll calm down. The angry frothers will eventually die off.
I think that train left the station long ago ... never to return.
Re:Skip peace deals (Score:4, Insightful)
(even though no one who lives there wants to live under the kiev regime)
Do we actually know that? We know that some of the people living in these territories want to be under Russian rule but I dont think we have any clue how many
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Well that has nothing to do with what we were talking about but no I cant because Hammas has sworn to destroy a US ally, Israel. Ukraine on the other hand has sworn to retake their own territory from a US enemy. Kind of different stories going on here.
Re:They are helping terrorists (Score:4, Insightful)
It's hard to take the Palestinians seriously. I get their situation sucks, but they've been spouting a thoroughly crafted narrative so long they actually believe their own propaganda.
1) Palestinians were never a people; they're not an ethnic group, they're just Arabs that lived in the area. First under the Ottomans (not a fun life) then under the British when the British took over during WW1 (not a fun life) then handed to the Egyptians to manage of all things (not a fun life) who used it as a staging area to invade Israel, so then Israel cut it off and blockaded it during the Six Day War and has held it as an occupier for 50 years (not a fun life). So where is the Palestinian outrage at the Ottomans (dead) or British (gone)?
2) More importantly, where is the Palestinian outrage against Egypt? Because Israel maintains the blockade, but so does Egypt. Egypt doesn't want to deal with them either and keeps them bottled up too. Yes Israel is the biggest part of this but Egypt is a big contributor to the Gaza strip issues; they have no interest in solving the problems there. And yet it's all Israel's fault from the Palestinian perspective.
3) and what about Iran? Iran trained them for this. Iran uses them for their own domestic politics: keep that in mind. Persians and Arabs have been at each others throats for centuries, they practice very different and incompatible versions of Islam, and yet these Palestinian youths invaded and died in Israel to further Iran's domestic politics?
The problem with Palestine is no one wants them, no one wants to help them, and anyone claiming to help them would gladly let thousands or tens of thousands of Palestinians die to inflame their own population to win the next domestic election. At some point they as a people need to realize that they are and always will be pawns until they choose to stop being pawns and figure out a way to live without fighting the Israelis. Only then will there be a peace.
Re:They are helping terrorists (Score:4, Insightful)
where is the Palestinian outrage against Egypt?
There's plenty of Palestinian outrage against Egypt. Hamas is part of the Muslim Brotherhood [wikipedia.org], which is the mortal enemy of the current Egyptian government. They back the Sinai insurgency [wikipedia.org] and do bombings and assassinations in Cairo.
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That would be because the common term used for Palestinians across the Arab world is "rats". They're almost universally hated.
This doesn't change the fact even people with such an awful reputation will be supported in their righteous war against the kuffar.
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Because Iran has no bone to pick with Egypt that's why. I watched the Palestinian Ambassador to the UK state the same old propagandistic story [youtube.com] about Israel. What about Egypt? What about Iran? What about Jordan who butchered Palestinian refugees in Jordan when they, stupidly, rose up against Jordan who was trying to help them during Black September? What about the Saud
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Then why didn't they cross the border into Egypt, hit Egyptian military sites and kill Egyptian civilians and take Egyptian hostages?
Because they already have people operating inside Egypt.
Heck, from 2012 to 2013, they were running Egypt: Mohamed Morsi [wikipedia.org].
MBS ... make a peace with Israel (which is what this is all about)?
MBS wants Israel as an ally against Iran. The enemy of his enemy is now his friend.
Re:They are helping terrorists (Score:5, Interesting)
It's hard to take the Palestinians seriously.
If it helps, consider that Hamas did not win a majority of the vote in the last election, which was held in 2006. (Although, admittedly, they got a higher vote than Likud did in the last Israeli election...)
It can be simultaneously true that the current Israeli government is an oppressive settler-colonial regime, and Hamas are straight up terrorists. It can be simultaneously true that neither the Israeli nor the Palestinian "leadership" have a clear democratic mandate.
Re: They are helping terrorists (Score:2)
Re: They are helping terrorists (Score:4, Insightful)
The thing that I don't get is why anyone thinks "the Israelis" or "the Palestinians" are homogenous. The vast majority of citizens of both areas are just people who want to be left alone to live their lives.
I miss the days of Rabin and Arafat.
By the way, I don't understand the "Palestinians were never a people" argument. Neither were "Canadians". Hell, it's part of Russia's official line about Ukraine. I'm highly dubious about what role ethnostates should play in the 21st century. They are, at best, a hack to try to get a peace deal now
Surely the end goal of any 21st century country is to be multi-ethnic and multi-cultural.
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Actually Palestinians do have a subtly distinct culture, different than other Arabs. You can see it partially in the scarves and head dresses they wear. Other Arabs don't wear the same getup. They're small differences true, but it's there.
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This.
It's hard to take the Palestinians seriously. I get their situation sucks, but they've been spouting a thoroughly crafted narrative so long they actually believe their own propaganda.
1) Palestinians were never a people; they're not an ethnic group, they're just Arabs that lived in the area. First under the Ottomans (not a fun life) then under the British when the British took over during WW1 (not a fun life) then handed to the Egyptians to manage of all things (not a fun life) who used it as a staging area to invade Israel, so then Israel cut it off and blockaded it during the Six Day War and has held it as an occupier for 50 years (not a fun life). So where is the Palestinian outrage at the Ottomans (dead) or British (gone)?
This narrative always bugs me. Who are you to declare that someone isn't a legitimate group? Are you going to declare Ukrainians not a group next? Or are they on the other side of your "counts as a people" line?
Maybe they didn't identify as a group back in 1900, but surely they've been through enough together that they've built their own identity.
As to the Ottomans and British, sure not having self-rule sucks, but there's a difference between being part of someone else's empire and being colonized.
Re: They are helping terrorists (Score:3)
That's kind of like saying that everybody who was at ground zero on 9/11 are a distinct group. I mean, I guess you can say that, but not really. They were Jordanians until Jordan renounced its sovereignty over the area and gave it to the PLO. Palestine itself wasn't even a distinct region until the league of nations mandate at the end of WWI establishing a British colony there. Notice how it has straight, angular borders everywhere there isn't a landmark like a mountain or a river? That's because it was a p
Re: They are helping terrorists (Score:2)
"Palestinians were never a people; they're not an ethnic group, they're just Arabs that lived in the area."
What the hell does that mean? Texas was just "white people that lived in the area", they weren't a "people", what do you mean, sure they have their own distinct culture apart from the people governing them, but it's not a special culture so meh?
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People like Bibi motivated a crazy person who shall go nameless with genocidal, racist rhetoric to assassinate Rabin to prevent peace. In the days preceding Rabin's murder, his political foes called for his murder and caricatured him as a Nazi. [pellcenter.org]
The Combatant Clergy Association [wikipedia.org] and Hamas just handed Bibi actually what he always wanted: Hamas "wins" by killing Israelis, which leads to Bibi "winning" by killing even more Palestinians. Moderates, peace-makers, and civilians on all sides are stuck with the after
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Re:They are helping terrorists (Score:5, Insightful)
So.... According to what's said so far-
Israel:
Swiping land. Cutting off commerce.
Not go in and recapture land and/or take things you need to survive?
Palestinians (HAMAS/etc terrorists from adjacent countries like Iran):
Murder, rape and torture. Civilians. In a cowardly surprise attack.
Just wow.
One of these is not even close to equivalent.
That "Bully" could have made Gaza a parking lot. So the answer is to try hard to ratchet things up?
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Hamas is the governing force in Gaza. Notably, democratically elected.
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You may recall that at the time Israel pulled out so they could have elections and self rule, the true democracy types were literally gunned down in the streets by Hamas and pals.
When putting your name on the ballot gets you killed you don't have anything like a democracy.
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That's a hell of a condemnation of Palestinians as a people, that the moment the supposed horrible oppressors stops oppressing them, they gun down their own in a much worse way.
Re:They are helping terrorists (Score:4, Insightful)
Basically, you are defending the murder of children and the rape of women because "they had it coming".
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Children die in war, especially when schools and homes are used to store weapons.
How many rapes have Israelis committed in Gaza? Is it a number higher than zero?
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Israel handed over Gaza to the Palestinians in exchange for a promise of peace. Then the Palestinians used the land to launch even more attacks against Israeli civilians. They were remarkably restrained in response to those attacks. But now the gloves are off. And people like you will keep coming up with excuse after excuse as to justify Israeli women and children are being raped and murdered.
Re:They are helping terrorists (Score:5, Interesting)
Yes, they're acting exactly as early iron age culture that is Islamic culture dictates. You raid your enemy's soft supply lines, capture hostages to be traded for bullion, rape and torture their women and children to demoralize them and display your spoils to your own to uplift morale.
Fun part: none of what Hamas did is considered haram in Islam. Most of what they did, such as rape and torture of women taken as slaves is directly following in the steps of The Prophet, peace be upon him. This is why Islamic world has been quite united in lack of any condemnation at best, and open support as noted in things like one in OP or all the celebratory demonstrations among muslims around the world including those with multiple generations of living in the West at worst.
For those that don't know, Islamic nations actually have their own version of Universal Declaration of Human Rights, that specifically notes that any rights declared are void if allowed in Islamic tradition and law. They do not recognize rights like the right of non-muslim slave women taken on a raid to not be raped, tortured and killed by the raiders. Can't, as The Prophet, peace be upon him, did just that. And he is the Perfect Man in Islamic tradition, to be emulated in everything he did.
It's why ISIS used the same methods, even in African and Central Asian cultures.
Re:They are helping terrorists (Score:4, Interesting)
They are acting like a people that has been invaded and occupied for decades. While nothing excuses attacks on civilians, nothing excuses annexing Palestine and then blockading and bombing it so that the people there can never get back on their feet.
For this to end it needs both sides to negotiate peace, or for one side to commit genocide. Netanyahu seems to be working towards the latter, and this attack by Hamas was a gift to him.
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Yet time and time again there's a specific party which strikes first.
Yes, and that party is Israel. They kill Palestinians weekly or more frequently, and have killed more than four times as many of them as Palestinians have killed Israelis even given this incident. Israel also kills more journalists per capita than anyone else but possibly the Saudis. They straight snipe journalists wearing press gear. You think they're doing that for humanitarian reasons?
Really tells you a lot about some people (Score:4, Insightful)
Hamas: (Reeeeeeing about occupation, human rights violations, etc.)
Also Hamas: Invades Israel, primarily slaughters unarmed civilians particularly shooting up an international peace music festival, carts off a bunch of underage girls to be sex slaves and was last seen turning the corpse of a German woman into a hunting trophy on the back of a pickup.
Yes, Israel commits human rights violations. No, they do not act like 7th century desert-dwelling, nomadic bandits with regard to things like mass rape and sexual slavery of women and even little girls in occupied lands.
We should take note of the populations dancing in the streets at this barbarism and pencil them out of the Geneva Conventions.
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What goes on in the heads of people who think it's "understandable", even for threatening to rape and kill, is beyond me.
after the last 20 years of endless wars ... (Score:2, Insightful)
Not too eager to get involved in other people's battles. A pox on all their houses. The whole mess started with the US throwing its weight around to get cheap oil out of the ME because the Soviets had become a nonentity. Before that, we were smart enough to stay more-or-less out of the Arab-Israeli wars. So it's 30 years later and we're back to being constrained by world events again.
I don't care who is right because no one is.
Re:after the last 20 years of endless wars ... (Score:5, Insightful)
The whole mess started with the US throwing its weight around
The US didn't start the Arab-Israeli conflict.
If you want to blame a Western Power, blame the British for their actions during the Palestine Mandate [wikipedia.org] but even that is a gross oversimplification of history.
So it's 30 years later and we're back to being constrained by world events again.
Yeah, that's what happens in a globally connected world. The world is both too big and too small for isolationism to remain tenable. What happened here are war crimes. What's happening in Ukraine are war crimes. I'm generally pretty skeptical of Israel and I loathe their current government but I'm going to root for them and support the US helping them here, they're fighting people that literally went door to door killing civilians. Ditto Ukraine. If this is allowed to stand I don't think anyone is going to like the world that will result and it's only a matter of time before we get sucked in anyway. Better in Ukraine/Israel than NATO/North America.
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The whole mess started with the US throwing its weight around
The US didn't start the Arab-Israeli conflict.
If you want to blame a Western Power, blame the British for their actions during the Palestine Mandate [wikipedia.org] but even that is a gross oversimplification of history.
So it's 30 years later and we're back to being constrained by world events again.
Yeah, that's what happens in a globally connected world. The world is both too big and too small for isolationism to remain tenable. What happened here are war crimes. What's happening in Ukraine are war crimes. I'm generally pretty skeptical of Israel and I loathe their current government but I'm going to root for them and support the US helping them here, they're fighting people that literally went door to door killing civilians. Ditto Ukraine. If this is allowed to stand I don't think anyone is going to like the world that will result and it's only a matter of time before we get sucked in anyway. Better in Ukraine/Israel than NATO/North America.
Blame the Ottoman Empire for collapsing and leaving the Middle East in a 'dark ages'.
They weren't even set up to govern themselves, when the Ottomans left it just descended into shit and anarchy.
But the USA, they do like to foment chaos wherever they can. Even after WW1, when Italy was on the side of the 'Allies' and wanted some of their territory back from the Austro-Hungarians, which was part of the deal to keep them onside, the USA stopped that just to fuck with Italy and help Mussolini and the Fascists.
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But the USA, they do like to foment chaos wherever they can.
WTF? Are you serious? If the US disappeared into a puff of logic tomorrow, in 3 weeks time war would be at your doorstep, tankie. And despite what your fantasies of it might be, I assure you that war is hell and nothing else. The US is one of the few stabling powers in the current world order and that's who you blame for this mess? Seriously? Not religion, not Islam, not European colonialism, not the NAZI and the holocaust, not lazy European diplomats, not selfish other Arab powers only concerned with
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If that's a backdoor 9/11 reference I suggest you tread lightly, Native New Yorker here.
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You forget that this is still celebrated in the Islamic world as one of the biggest victories against the kuffar. Early Iron Age cultures have a completely different value set towards attacking the soft civilian parts of the society. Islamic world didn't suffer 30 years war, nor WW2 mass bombings of civilians. They have a completely different set of lessons learned from us.
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Re:after the last 20 years of endless wars ... (Score:5, Insightful)
What's your excuse for children taken as hostage? Women who clearly are no military? Old people having trouble walking?
And to answer your question: a uniform is usually how you identify a military. And a weapon. If you break into someone's home, and start killing the whole familly at their dinner table (which is what literally happened), don't make an excuse by saying you couldn't distinguish between military and civilian.
Oh wait. You are the same game that basically made a post to claim how Hitlet was such a nice guy. At least you are consistent in what you are saying.
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It is what The Prophet, peace be upon him, did.
That is all the justification required, and why the parading of raped slaves and corpses was cheered on across Islamic world. Including nests of Islamic world in the West.
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In a country where every able bodied adult is in the military due to compulsory service, how do you distinguish between 'military' and 'civilian'?
Easy, attack a military outpost, not a "Friends, Love and Peace" Music festival [globalnews.ca].
For sure Israel policy is pretty indefensible, between turning Gaza into an open air prison and the steady process of pushing Palestinians off their land to make way for Settlers one does expect the Palestinians to occasionally turn to violence (which is also very wrong).
But if you're going to use violence use it against proper military targets, don't go after civilians.
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The whole mess started with the US throwing its weight around to get cheap oil out of the ME
No, not at all. Israel is not an oil exporter. American support for Israel has strained relations with Arab petrostates and triggered the 1973 embargo and the formation of OPEC. It definitely wasn't done for cheap oil.
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Stay the fuck out of it.
You first [telegraph.co.uk], Boris.
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No, asshole. Saddam was lobbing Scuds at Israel, because he figured that if the US defended Israel there, then the coalition's Arab members would split off.
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I don't care who is right
That much is obvious enough.
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If you hold the belief that the Geneva Conventions should be withheld from people who's attitude you don't like, then you missed the point.
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Yep. Terrorism doesn't win hearts, minds, or political capital. It just makes them look like medieval, dangerous, crazy idiots who need to be drone strike'd.
There are a million other nonviolent ways to take power away from Likud hardliners without killing anyone, but this just gave mountains of power to them instead.
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Never forget that the Egyptians and Jordanians refused to take any Palestinians in
Three million Palestinians live in Jordan, about 28% of the population.
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Are you sure that it’s the duty of surrounding Arab states to support Israel’s ethnic cleansing? Do they have to support it financially as well as physically? Politically? What would happen if they just accepted Israel ethnically cleansing the Palestinians? Would they be next?
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Weird how when Egypt starts a war and loses some land, the Egyptians left behind are now under their victim's control.
Does Egypt give a shit about their own people in Gaza? Nope.
Re:Really tells you a lot about some people (Score:5, Informative)
Brutalise a people and they become... brutes. Also, you tend to become like that which you most despise. *cough*Israel*cough*nazis*cough*
First if Isreal was like the nazis then all the Palestinians would be dead by now. That was Hitlers clear goal to kill all Jews, no option to just leave was given.
But I agree with "Brutalise a people and they become... brutes". And it goes both ways, and both sides think they are in the right. It will make Israel a bigger brute. All I see from this war is a lot of people will die. I fear that this will be used to justify more violence against Palestinians , support for right wing parties will increase, Israelis will call for blood.
Nobody will win from this conflict, and the Palestinians "victory" will turn to sorrow as they die from bombings and starvation, hopefully it won't happen, but I fear it will.
Re:Really tells you a lot about some people (Score:5, Insightful)
Brutalise a people and they become... brutes. Also, you tend to become like that which you most despise. *cough*Israel*cough*nazis*cough*
First if Isreal was like the nazis then all the Palestinians would be dead by now. That was Hitlers clear goal to kill all Jews, no option to just leave was given.
But I agree with "Brutalise a people and they become... brutes". And it goes both ways, and both sides think they are in the right. It will make Israel a bigger brute. All I see from this war is a lot of people will die. I fear that this will be used to justify more violence against Palestinians , support for right wing parties will increase, Israelis will call for blood.
Nobody will win from this conflict, and the Palestinians "victory" will turn to sorrow as they die from bombings and starvation, hopefully it won't happen, but I fear it will.
Historically, Israel has maintained about a 5 to one death ratio for Palestinians when things like this happen; for every Israeli killed, they make sure 5 Palestinians die. Will be interesting to see how this plays out.
Hamas basically hate the Palestinian people. Its just political point-scoring for Iran.
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>"Historically, Israel has maintained about a 5 to one death ratio for Palestinians when things like this happen; for every Israeli killed, they make sure 5 Palestinians die. Will be interesting to see how this plays out."
Historically, Hamas puts all their weapons/launchers in civilian areas to ensure that any strikes back will kill their own civilians.
Historically, Israel will WARN areas before they strike back to try and reduce civilian deaths.
>"Hamas basically hate the Palestinian people. Its just
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>"Historically, Israel has maintained about a 5 to one death ratio for Palestinians when things like this happen; for every Israeli killed, they make sure 5 Palestinians die. Will be interesting to see how this plays out."
Historically, Hamas puts all their weapons/launchers in civilian areas to ensure that any strikes back will kill their own civilians.
Historically, Israel will WARN areas before they strike back to try and reduce civilian deaths.
And where else is Hamas going to put anything?
And where are innocent Palestinians going to hide?
Gaza is literally the most densely populated place on Earth.
There is NO WHERE to shelter. It's all full of people.
I'm expecting a final solution to the Palestinian problem any day now.
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Maybe don't be a bunch of shit bags and you won't need weapons stashed in schools and people's living rooms.
They were offered a good deal and started a war in response.
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Hamas basically hate the Palestinian people. Its just political point-scoring for Iran.
since when Hamas, which is Muslim-Brotherhood, aka sunni aligned with Saudi Arabia, would be supported by Iran ??
there is some cluelessness floating around here... or is it that anything muslim is Iran somehow in your head ?
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If Hitler intended to kill all the Jews, he sure wasted a lot of precious resources housing and feeding them for years...
Do you mind if I "house you and feed you" the same way? Please sweetheart, it will be better for everybody that way.
I guess helping them make passage to Palestine without losing all their possessions
Yeah, I guess in your world Hitler was a really nice guy. A bit misunderstood, but so full of good intentions. What a shame.
Also, what a bunch of bullshit you can read on the internet those days.
Re:Really tells you a lot about some people (Score:5, Interesting)
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If Hitler intended to kill all the Jews, he sure wasted a lot of precious resources housing and feeding them for years...
Is this the same Hitler that was best buds with uncle Stalin? After all the two signed a marriage agreement (Molotovâ"Ribbentrop Pact) and commensurated their union by invaded Poland together like two peas in a pod madly in love.
It wasn't until Hitler spurned Stalin's affection he went crying to the allies like a little bitch.
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Stalin made a "Jewish Autonomous Oblast". Look it up. The purpose is quite obvious once you note the environment and it's ability to support human life and cross reference it against Stalin's forced resettlement policies. The only thing that really saved Jews in Soviet Union from that fate was that they formed an incredibly large portion of the scientist cadre, and Soviet Union needed them to survive WW2 and later Cold War.
That said, Soviets won the war in Europe for allies. Rest of the world helped. Ask Ge
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That said, Soviets won the war in Europe for allies.
That's a nonsense claim. For very obvious starters, which you only vaguely allude to, Soviet success on the Eastern Front was only possible because of Lend-Lease. The US (and UK to lesser extent) supplied the logistical apparatus of the Red Army. The Red Army marched West wearing American boots, eating American rations, driving American trucks, with supply trains hauled by American locomotives, and airplanes running on high octane American AvGas. Look it up.
While you're at it, look up the Plan Dog Memo
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>That's a nonsense claim. For very obvious starters, which you only vaguely allude to, Soviet success on the Eastern Front was only possible because of Lend-Lease
Fact check: utter nonsense. Military hardware didn't begin to flow to Eastern Front in any meaningful numbers until 1944. That is after the key decisive battles to turn the war were long behind.
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It wasn't military hardware that turned the tide boss, although, we sent that too. It was logistical support of the kind that long wars are won and lost on. The Soviet Union produced less than one hundred locomotives from 1942 to 1945. The US supplied them with nearly two thousand. We supplied their rations. Telephone cables. Boots. 30% of Soviet aircraft came from the West via Lend-Lease. Most of these were transports but there were combat aircraft in there too. We supplied all of their high oct
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I see the goal posts had rockets attached to them, and firing has happened in desperate running around, assuming I'm not well versed in relevant history. The red herrings you are carpet bombing the narrative with are well known, and widely deployed by people who want to minimize the effort of Soviet Union, either because of historic guilt of not participating in European theater at meaningful scale until the war was effectively turned around, or because of wanting to steal valor. Polish supporters also like
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Reality remains that no matter how you attempt to diminish Lend Lease the Soviet Union would have lost the war without it. I have not attempted to minimize the effort of the Soviet Union, only to point out they would not have won without the assistance of the Western Allies, which is backed by the words of their own leaders. Nothing I’ve pointed out is a red herring. Why don’t you explain how the Red Army reaches Berlin without Lend Lease and without the Western Front, mm'kay?
Of course, the
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Re: Really tells you a lot about some people (Score:2)
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Never forget that the Egyptians and Jordanians refused to take any Palestinians in, forcing this massive ghetto on the border with Israel. In this way, the people of Gaza are used as a cat's paw for the aforementioned countries. Why not let your Arab pals in eh, Egypt?
The official Israel line is, as I've had it explained to me by Israelis:
"There is no such thing as a Palestinian. They don't exist. These people are Arabs and should be happy to live anywhere in the Arab world. Israel is not part of the Arab world. They should leave."
Israel have basically 'genocided' the entire Palestinian people already, denying them even their existance on paper. The other parts of the 'Arab world' wanted to make a point that actually Palestinians DO exist and they aren't Egyptian or Jordanian etc.
Sucks to have been a non-Jew in the Palestine in the 1940s and onward. Fucked by the Ottomans, fucked by the Europeans, fucked by the Jews. Fucked by Arabs.
Brutalise a people and they become... brutes. Also, you tend to become like that which you most despise. *cough*Israel*cough*nazis*cough*
Are you somehow trying to even begin to put any blame for this event on Israel? Are you really that high, or what? The atrocities committed intentionally and without provocation are representative of the lowest grade of cowards possible.
If focused killing of civilians is the combat chosen by their enemies, I hope Israel doesn't hold fire just because those terrorist cowards use innocents as human shields. I pray they can focus with precision and greatly limit non-com casualties. If they aren't very succ
Re:Really tells you a lot about some people (Score:5, Insightful)
Never forget that the Egyptians and Jordanians refused to take any Palestinians in, forcing this massive ghetto on the border with Israel. In this way, the people of Gaza are used as a cat's paw for the aforementioned countries. Why not let your Arab pals in eh, Egypt?
The official Israel line is, as I've had it explained to me by Israelis:
"There is no such thing as a Palestinian. They don't exist. These people are Arabs and should be happy to live anywhere in the Arab world. Israel is not part of the Arab world. They should leave."
Israel have basically 'genocided' the entire Palestinian people already, denying them even their existance on paper. The other parts of the 'Arab world' wanted to make a point that actually Palestinians DO exist and they aren't Egyptian or Jordanian etc.
Sucks to have been a non-Jew in the Palestine in the 1940s and onward. Fucked by the Ottomans, fucked by the Europeans, fucked by the Jews. Fucked by Arabs.
Brutalise a people and they become... brutes. Also, you tend to become like that which you most despise. *cough*Israel*cough*nazis*cough*
Are you somehow trying to even begin to put any blame for this event on Israel? Are you really that high, or what? The atrocities committed intentionally and without provocation are representative of the lowest grade of cowards possible.
If focused killing of civilians is the combat chosen by their enemies, I hope Israel doesn't hold fire just because those terrorist cowards use innocents as human shields. I pray they can focus with precision and greatly limit non-com casualties. If they aren't very successful at it, I hope they at least take out all those that stroke their ego killing and raping women and children.
But it isn't my fight.
I just can't stand that Palestinians gave in (or whatever) at some point, and have scumbag terrorists attacking a country that could pound their whole area to glass. That is, if Israel were pieces of useless trash like those cowards.
But they aren't. So they've held off. So far.
Israel is a country. Palestine is not. Hamas is not a country.
Israel is to blame for the way that Palestinians are forced out of their country, you can't even live in Israel and be a Palestinian; you have to acknowledge that you are just an Arab, an Israeli Arab. Israel has certainly brutalised and tormented this dispossessed people beyond imagining.
I don't think even you could argue that Israel has been *nice* to the Palestinians?
But that doesn't blame Israel for the actions that the terrorist organisation, Hamas, has carried out. It does go some way to understanding why it is that a Palestinian kid might think they have nothing to live for, no hope, no future, and therefore fall easy prey to Hamas.
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Please provide a list of the defining cultural, race, or other characteristics of a "Palestinian" as they differ from an Egyptian or Jordanian.
I'll grant gps coordinates. What else makes them a unique people?
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Fucked by the Ottomans, fucked by the Europeans, fucked by the Jews. Fucked by Arabs.
This is why Palestinians deserve a state of their own. And the Kurds, equally fucked by everyone around them. And also the Sikhs. And the Tamils. And the Rohingya. The list could get long...
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This is why Palestinians deserve a state of their own. And the Kurds, equally fucked by everyone around them. And also the Sikhs. And the Tamils. And the Rohingya. The list could get long...
Worked out real well in the Balkans and the sad thing is it's not even over yet. By the time they're done there will just be a million different "Independent Republics of Me, Myself, and I" floating around. The General Assembly is going to get very crowded. ;-)
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Worked out real well in the Balkans and the sad thing is it's not even over yet.
Is it perfect? No. Is it better than it was before, yes i will vote for that.
The General Assembly is going to get very crowded. ;-)
Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.
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Because there is no such thing as a Palestinian. They don't have a separate culture, language, history, or anything else. They are Arabs who happen to live in a particular location. If they moved to Egypt or Jordan or anywhere else they'd be Egyptian or Jordanian. There are absolutely no distinguishing characteristics of a "Palestinian" besides gps coordinates of their bed.
The term "Palestinian" was invented from whole cloth by Yasser Arafat, an Egyptian, who re-self-identified himself as a "Palestinian
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Because there is no such thing as a Palestinian. They don't have a separate culture, language, history, or anything else. They are Arabs who happen to live in a particular location. If they moved to Egypt or Jordan or anywhere else they'd be Egyptian or Jordanian. There are absolutely no distinguishing characteristics of a "Palestinian" besides gps coordinates of their bed.
The term "Palestinian" was invented from whole cloth by Yasser Arafat, an Egyptian, who re-self-identified himself as a "Palestinian" when he was running the PLO, a terrorist group.
You know that you're committing genocide, right there?
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You're quoting individuals who are not setting policy. It's a bit disingenuous to quote a random right wing asshat Israeli politician that runs his mouth and equate it to Hamas actually going door to door and murdering people. When the State of Israel actually does those things, lemme know, until then, it's a BS comparison and I think you know that.
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You're quoting individuals who are not setting policy. It's a bit disingenuous to quote a random right wing asshat Israeli politician that runs his mouth and equate it to Hamas actually going door to door and murdering people. When the State of Israel actually does those things, lemme know, until then, it's a BS comparison and I think you know that.
You have the most important point in this. Words are just that, until actions occur. It's not good that people actually believe and say ridiculous hyperbole equating words with violence, or silence with violence.
If I talk about how someone should just die, and say it in a the most hurtful, hate filled way possible, they might feel all kinds of emotions. .380 is gonna leave an impression of what is violence.
If I decide that they are an existential threat, even a short barrel
I'm not a "big guy" or a "keyboa
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You're quoting individuals who are not setting policy.
These are members of the Israeli Knesset or heads of government ministries, the very people who set policy. The law I cited was passed by the Israeli Knesset.
Here is a short video [youtube.com] taken two years ago showing a Jewish "settler" attempting to steal a Palestians home. His response, "If I don't steal your home someone else will." Question: do you think this "settler" was ever taken into custody by the Israeli authorities, or did the government turn another
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Now you're moving the goal posts. You cited calls for genocide that are very definitely not policy. I could point out that the US President once ruminated on shooting migrants [nytimes.com]. It never became policy though, so it makes that particular President a piece of shit, not the United States.
Vis-à-vis this conflict, I'm not without sympathy for the Palestinians, but there's no partner for peace. How do you end the occupation when you can't make peace? And you can't make peace with someone that disputes y
"Hacktivists" (Score:2)
These hackers are often not affiliated with any governments but rather a decentralized group of politically motivated hackers.
In other words, idiots.
Pop culture tells them to hate Israel and blame it for being attacked. So they do. Such rebels ...
A Line Has Been Crossed (Score:5, Insightful)
Regardless of where you stand, no one can deny that the redline of redlines has been crossed.
Palestinians are fed up with living in the glorified prison state that is Gaza, getting periodically used as target practice by the IDF.
The Israelis are realizing that the existence of Gaza will continue to pose a major problem to their state.
Meanwhile foreign powers have continued to arm and poke both sides into this conflict.
And so now it is looking likely that the Israelis are going to finish not only Hamas off, but the entire Gaza Strip as well. Over 2 million people stuck between the sea, a wall, and an Egypt likely unwilling to accept refugees.
People here are overlooking the obvious fact that is going to be a bloodbath regardless of who wins. And naturally the civilians of both sides will suffer the most out of this shit show. For all the talk of genocide in Ukraine, what will happen in Gaza is going to make that look like an afternoon picnic.
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Then perhaps they should stop lobbing missiles.
Re: A Line Has Been Crossed (Score:2)
I would say the same to the Israelis.
In any case though both sides should ideally cease shooting at one another. But the grievances are too deep at this point for them to come to the negotiation table.
And I should remind you that there are plenty of Palestinians who want nothing to do with this ongoing blood feud. Same with many Israelis and the greater Jewish population.
Unfortunately both sides have been cursed with leadership that are dead set on their maximalist gains, casualties or no.
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Han shot first.
1967 says what?
This conflict goes back literally thousands of years, who did what first is a bit difficult to untangle at this point, but Israel has been murdering Palestinians on the regular all along. Hamas tends to kill Israelis in clumps rather than here and there, but both sides keep working at increasing the death toll.
Hamas only attacked military targets until the 1994 Ibrahimi Mosque massacre.
Thought the Isrealis would have more time (Score:2)
What Hamas did was so over the top barbaric and evil I thought Israelis would at least earn themselves some sympathy / reprieve in terms of global public opinion.
After all writing seems to be on the wall that Gaza is bloody doomed and at the very least tens of thousands of people should expect to be dead by Israeli retaliation in short order... you would think activists would at least keep their powder dry for a week or two until the Israelis inevitably do something particularly deserving of their ire.
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I thought Israelis would at least earn themselves some sympathy / reprieve in terms of global public opinion.
The silver lining that emerges when things go kinetic is the rapid dispelling of this sort of naivety.
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When were the Egyptians living in Gaza not medieval?
The very nature of their religion/culture/government (same thing) is barbaric 7th century garbage unsuitable for this millennia.
No one made them into barbarians. They adopted the Koran. They live down to the worst parts of it. That is what makes them barbarians. Long before Israel existed.
They are calling it Israel's 9/11 (Score:2)
Reminds me of China's 9/11 in 2014 when Uyghur separatists attacked the Kunming Rail station
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
Israel's death toll is a lot higher, let's hope they don't overreact to this like China did.
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China And India Will Fix It. (Score:2)
And everything will be all peachy.
Bad for Israel... (Score:2)
Israel now has the excuse they need to do what a great many of them have wanted for a long time... to raze the place. But there is no good outcome here for them. Hamas will have won, even with their own annihilation in hand. Whatever moral high ground others ascribed to Israel over the last 50 years dissolves into a "might makes right" transactional form of vengeance. Nobody can blame them for it... but everybody will evaluate the revealed nature of Israel for themselves, and I doubt that reconsideration is
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No, they just need to stop being shit bags who rape women and children and murder unarmed civilians at their dinner table and they'll get a peace deal much better than they've ever had under anyone else.