What Happened When Tulsa Paid People to Work Remotely (citylab.com) 70
Remember when Tulsa, Oklahoma offered $10,000 to remote workers who'd relocate to their city?
It was an immensely popular program. "You have better odds of getting into Harvard or Yale than you do of getting into the Tulsa Remote program," the city's mayor told CityLab: All of the Remoters get a free one-year membership to the coworking space, though others prefer to work at home, perhaps because for some of them, home is a luxury apartment building downtown where they receive subsidized rent — another part of their welcome package...
A year after Tulsa Remote launched, the first participants — a mix of expats from expensive coastal cities, wanderlusty young adults, and those with roots in the region — say they've found many of the things they were looking for: a more comfortable and affordable quality of life, new neighbors they like, enough of an economic cushion to ease the stress of buying new furniture, and a fresh start. Many say they'll stick around past the end of the one-year program. More than that: Some of them tell stories of positive personal transformation that are so dramatic, they might appear too perfect, almost canned. But after checking in with participants over the course of eight months, I found that many of them remained just as effusive. Maybe it's something about Tulsa. Or maybe it's something about Tulsa Remote...
One "Remoter," as they're called in the Tulsa program, is a Harlem Globetrotter. Another runs an online finance site, helping people maximize their credit points. Others work in education, and online marketing, and consulting, and media. Of the 100 participants who were originally selected, 70 accepted [program director] Bolzle's offer, and two left within a few months of arriving to the city...
At least 25 participants from the first Tulsa Remote cohort have purchased property in the city, Bolzle says. One bought a $700,000 house... The endgame of Tulsa Remote is that these residents will help build a flourishing new economic ecosystem in town; they'll start families and launch start-ups and tell their friends to come join them. There's a "multiplier effect" expected of a project like this, even if the workers aren't employed by Tulsa-based companies, said Pamela Loprest, a senior fellow and labor economist in the Income and Benefits Policy Center at the Urban Institute. "They'll create other jobs and [draw] other people into that area..."
Even a few participants who had initially told me they wanted to leave when the program ended have now changed their minds.
Other states are trying variations on the idea, including Vermont, northwest Alabama, and Topeka, Kansas. "It used to be that talent went where the jobs were," the program's executive director tells them, but "That's shifting." The article notes that new development downtown -- including a $465 million riverfront park -- "seems engineered to look like a Millennial playground. The problem, says Tulsa Mayor G.T. Bynum, is there just aren't enough people to play in it..."
"Now, the program's executive director says, it's the responsibility of cities to create a community that someone would want to call home, and make sure people know to move there..."
It was an immensely popular program. "You have better odds of getting into Harvard or Yale than you do of getting into the Tulsa Remote program," the city's mayor told CityLab: All of the Remoters get a free one-year membership to the coworking space, though others prefer to work at home, perhaps because for some of them, home is a luxury apartment building downtown where they receive subsidized rent — another part of their welcome package...
A year after Tulsa Remote launched, the first participants — a mix of expats from expensive coastal cities, wanderlusty young adults, and those with roots in the region — say they've found many of the things they were looking for: a more comfortable and affordable quality of life, new neighbors they like, enough of an economic cushion to ease the stress of buying new furniture, and a fresh start. Many say they'll stick around past the end of the one-year program. More than that: Some of them tell stories of positive personal transformation that are so dramatic, they might appear too perfect, almost canned. But after checking in with participants over the course of eight months, I found that many of them remained just as effusive. Maybe it's something about Tulsa. Or maybe it's something about Tulsa Remote...
One "Remoter," as they're called in the Tulsa program, is a Harlem Globetrotter. Another runs an online finance site, helping people maximize their credit points. Others work in education, and online marketing, and consulting, and media. Of the 100 participants who were originally selected, 70 accepted [program director] Bolzle's offer, and two left within a few months of arriving to the city...
At least 25 participants from the first Tulsa Remote cohort have purchased property in the city, Bolzle says. One bought a $700,000 house... The endgame of Tulsa Remote is that these residents will help build a flourishing new economic ecosystem in town; they'll start families and launch start-ups and tell their friends to come join them. There's a "multiplier effect" expected of a project like this, even if the workers aren't employed by Tulsa-based companies, said Pamela Loprest, a senior fellow and labor economist in the Income and Benefits Policy Center at the Urban Institute. "They'll create other jobs and [draw] other people into that area..."
Even a few participants who had initially told me they wanted to leave when the program ended have now changed their minds.
Other states are trying variations on the idea, including Vermont, northwest Alabama, and Topeka, Kansas. "It used to be that talent went where the jobs were," the program's executive director tells them, but "That's shifting." The article notes that new development downtown -- including a $465 million riverfront park -- "seems engineered to look like a Millennial playground. The problem, says Tulsa Mayor G.T. Bynum, is there just aren't enough people to play in it..."
"Now, the program's executive director says, it's the responsibility of cities to create a community that someone would want to call home, and make sure people know to move there..."
Never been to Tulsa (Score:1, Troll)
Re: Never been to Tulsa (Score:2)
Step on the dirty needle, bigot!
Re: Never been to Tulsa (Score:2)
Needles and ... feces?
What are you injecting over there??
Re: (Score:3)
Class disparity, directly into the veins of society.
Result: Dirty needles and feces. There used to be broader complaints, but for now the feces and dirty needles own the field. And the sidewalk.
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So they just formed from nothing in the street, taking a dump?
Are you sure that is where zombies come from? I thought they were born as humans.
Re: Never been to Tulsa (Score:2)
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But I bet they very little tolerance for human feces and heroin needles all over the sidewalks.
You have committed wrongthink! Burn the witch!
Beautiful city (Score:3)
Funny thing (Score:5, Funny)
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I'm not sure if you mean funny-strange or funny-haha; I'm all for eating, but I am not as much for being eaten.
Re:Funny thing (Score:5, Interesting)
Funny, I'm the exact opposite. I find it difficult to work in an office because of the distractions and noise. Also the stress of the morning commute makes sure that I get to work in a bad mood. Compounded with the stress of the afternoon commute and I start to lose my will to live entirely.
My most recent position has me working with a lot of other remote devs. I have yet to observe any problems with their work ethic. In fact, I've probably observed more issues with unproductive output from in-office colleagues than I have from remotes, generally speaking. Contrary to popular opinion - offices offer so many distractions, and most people are very social creatures. It's common for someone to walk by your desk and suddenly remember something they need to discuss with you. Suddenly you're in the middle of an un-booked meeting that only had anything to do with work for the first 2 minutes. Yes, people can get distracted by things like Slack and social media as well - but it's easier to control those distractions and "turn them off" if you are in control of your environment.
Re:Funny thing (Score:4, Interesting)
I only occasionally get to work from home, and when I do I tend to crush about 10-12 hrs of work in the first 5-6 hrs. At that point I'm nearing a half day into tomorrow's work, and I have to seriously consider if I should keep working or not.
Food, drink, and a bathroom all of 10 seconds away paired with a quiet, serene workspace make me ridiculously productive. I think I would go a little stir-crazy if I had to do it more than 1-2 days a week at the most, but I definitely would welcome it a few days a month.
We were just forcibly moved to Microsoft Teams VOIP, which shows your activity status to everyone. I'm hoping the one bright spot of this is that they're a little more likely to let us work from home. The bosses can skim down their list and go harass anyone who's yellow or blue, (idle or offline) and leave all of us greens and reds alone (online and active, or in a meeting or call).
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People are complicated! News at 11.
There are jobs with similar descriptions, and yet have varying outcomes - some may be ideal for remote working, others may requi
But... it's Oklahoma. (Score:2, Interesting)
Seriously. Oklahoma?
About eight years ago there were a bunch of things in Oklahoma where they banned X, banned Y, were on track to ban tattoos (which they un-banned in 2006), and everyone just started to think they were a pot of crazies.
Oklahoma was used as a poster-child for the Republican "method" -- and it collapsed and burned.
Isn't Cleveland, OH better than Oklahoma?...
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Re: But... it's Oklahoma. (Score:5, Interesting)
Actually, Kansas was what was used as the "Republican Method," and yes, it crashed and burned.
Not that Oklahoma doesn't have it's serious problems. That vast majority of which are related to Evangelical Christianity, and a profound desire to inflict one's own mores on everyone else.
I grew up in central Oklahoma, in a small university town called Stillwater. At the time, it had a population of 36K, of which 19K were students. If you had to grow up in OK, this was by far the best place. It's almost equidistant between the cesspool of Oklahoma City, and the _relatively_ more liberal liberal Tulsa. Tulsa was where Oklahoma's oil wealth back in the day chose to settle, and there were benefits from this wealth with respect to education, art, and entertainment. This effect had greatly attenuated, but was still felt to a degree. My understanding, from people who still live in the area, this is still the case.
But yes, Tulsa is similar to Cleveland as they are both has-been cities whose best days are behind them.
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Not that Oklahoma doesn't have it's serious problems. That vast majority of which are related to Evangelical Christianity, and a profound desire to inflict one's own mores on everyone else.
Not like those enlightened benevolent progressives who merely want to ban medical words (the "R" word), create lots of new pronouns for imaginary new genders, displace holiday celebrations because they offend a single person, and deplatform you for breaking orthodoxy a single time. You're projecting when you say that Evangelical's who are inflicting their own mores on everyone else. I see the left do it daily but I struggle to think of even half as many examples from Evangelicals.
Re: But... it's Oklahoma. (Score:2)
"I see the left do it daily but I struggle to think of even half as many examples from Evangelicals."
Then you are either blind, or have never lived in TX, AR, KS, or OK, and had people worried about your eternal soul because you have ideals and mores different than theirs, had them make medical decisions for you, decide whom and how you can love.
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"I see the left do it daily but I struggle to think of even half as many examples from Evangelicals."
Then you are either blind, or have never lived in TX, AR, KS, or OK, and had people worried about your eternal soul because you have ideals and mores different than theirs, had them make medical decisions for you, decide whom and how you can love.
I have to give you credit, you are correct that I've never lived in TX, AR, KS, or OK. I do live in CA and let me tell you that the same personality type that represents the worst stereotypes of over aggressive religious busy bodies plays out here in the form of far left wing virtue signaling. Same personality type, different belief system. Trust me, they are just as annoying regardless of their underlying belief system. Don't believe every possible article of leftist faith? Burn the heretic.
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'Mentally retarded,' 'retard,' and 'retarded' is no longer used as a medical term; they have been turned into pejoratives, and are considered offensive. Just as the 'N' word (Slashdot's filter won't let me include the whole word) was a commonly accepted term for black people, especially in the southern states, and later used as a term for a class or group of people who are systematically subjected to discrimination and unfair treatment. Languages change.
As for there not being Evangelicals inflicting their m
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Just as the 'N' word (Slashdot's filter won't let me include the whole word) was a commonly accepted term for black people, especially in the southern states, and later used as a term for a class or group of people who are systematically subjected to discrimination and unfair treatment. Languages change.
Indeed. Now it's just flaunted by black people as something they get to do that nobody else can. Gotta love the double standards.
As for there not being Evangelicals inflicting their mores on everyone:
Religion-based laws in Oklahoma:
It is illegal to sell packaged liquor on Sundays, Christmas and other holidays. It is illegal to sell cars on Sundays. Adultery is illegal. Sodomy is still a felony. Prostitution is illegal. 'Obscene' language use in public is illegal.
Need I recall more?
I'll give you the liquor laws seem odd but having Adultery be illegal seems fair as long as it's applied evenly. There is an actual injured party and it certainly is a breach of contract. Prostitution is illegal in very liberal states too so you may have to rethink how much of that is Evangelicals and how much of it is other factors. Unless you believe that California and oth
Somebody: "Fuckin foreigners" (Score:1)
Tuslaer 1: "They should stay in their own city!!11oneeleven"
Tuslaer 2: "Nah, in their *part* of the city!"
Tuslaer 3: "Pish, you mean in their *street*!"
Tuslaer 4: "That's why I will never have guests in my house!"
Tuslaers 1-3: "Get off of our city square, uptown bitch!"
[Replace "Tusla" by your favorite city.]
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Don't you get a joke when you see one? (Score:2)
Or are you just so triggered?
Get a therapy please. Maybe a sense of humor first.
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Nor do they need it. Your post is no more than a list (which we've seen before) of you whining that they won't allow you to do anything you want for "free!"
low offer (Score:2)
Unless I was already planned to move there, $10000 is quite low to move somewhere.
Re:low offer (Score:4, Insightful)
It's good enough if you are young, if you have nothing and want to move out of your parents house after college, it would cover your moving expenses and about a year worth of rent for a room and food in a semi-large city like Tulsa during which you can save up all your hard earned money (~70-100k/y these days with a STEM college degree) and start out life with a decent amount of savings, you could put down 25-50% on a house within 2 years.
What I don't understand is why you would want to live in a city if you're a remote worker. It'd be cheaper to live out in the country.
Re:low offer (Score:4, Insightful)
What I don't understand is why you would want to live in a city if you're a remote worker. It'd be cheaper to live out in the country.
Not necessarily.
If you have a house, then property taxes are likely to be lower in the country. This program includes subsidies for rent, so that cost differential may not apply.
Food costs would likely be higher in the city, but then again, that might be offset by not needing a car. No commute to work (same as a rural area), but stores, restaurants and other services are likely to be close enough that a bicycle or walking are good enough.
Re: low offer (Score:5, Informative)
You've obviously never been to Tulsa. It's not a European city. You won't be walking to shops, etc. It's so spread out that a car is almost a necessity.
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I haven't been to Tulsa but I have been to various cities throughout the Midwest of the US. While they are sprawling there is typically a thriving downtown area complete with dining options, bars, and recreation options. You won't be walking to get groceries, however a reasonable coverage by gig economy apps that can perform delivery services could easy cover that gap if you are living in or relatively close to the downtown area. Even then, you might be able to handle the grocery errand option via Uber/Lyft
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Internet connectivity. I live a bit farther out, “rural forest”, and internet is good enough with High Speed WiFi of 17/7 and occasional outages due to high winds or wet snow. We have power outages a couple of times a year.
Generally since I can work from home and have sufficient vacation that I can take a day if necessary, I’m fine with the setup.
In the local town they have fiber and town based working offices at $250 a month. If I needed higher speed or more reliable access, I could work
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What I don't understand is why you would want to live in a city if you're a remote worker. It'd be cheaper to live out in the country.
Dining, entertainment, culture and healthcare are the primary reasons people live in cities as opposed to rural areas. Add in education if you include suburbs surrounding cities. I grew up in a rural area. The best restaurant was a Chilis, the movie theater and bowling alley were the only entertainment spots, and seeing medical specialists required over an hour drive into the nearest city (we at least were close to a city). I didn't even know what Indian or Korean food was until college (now my favorite eth
Re:low offer (Score:4, Insightful)
Unless I was already planned to move there, $10000 is quite low to move somewhere.
It's not enough to convince a settled person with a family to leave a place where he is happy. A single young person with a sense of adventure, on the other hand, seems to be the target demographic for this test.
As for the "...but it's Oklahoma!" argument, this too would be an acceptable dice roll for a young person. If you don't like it there, you have plenty of time to move ion.
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Why would I want to move to get a *remote* job? Why can't I just stay where I am?
Please no. (Score:1)
"Now, the program's executive director says, it's the responsibility of cities to create a community that someone would want to call home, and make sure people know to move there..."
I want the exact opposite. My city's population tripled here since I was born and it's crowded now, lousy with newcomers and tourists ruining one of the things that was nice about it: peace & quiet. Also staggering cost increases and housing shortages.
Fuck off, we're full.
Re: Please no. (Score:3)
Re: Please no. (Score:2)
Bunch of east coasters arrived in the 80s and 90s and decided to turn S.F. into the type of place they grew up in. A place like Baltimore or Trenton, or Brooklyn.
Looks like they succeeded
Can we do this for DC federal jobs? (Score:2)
Government jobs in the DC area are typically high paying. DC, MD and VA shouldn't have exclusive rights to these jobs.
My $0.02 is that if they made some of these jobs remote it would lower salary needs and it would spread the employment dollars with more parts of the country.
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Re: Can we do this for DC federal jobs? (Score:2)
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Many federal IT jobs cannot be done remotely. Even if your customer is the DO Education, access to the data / administrative functions may require a certain level of clearance, and this kind of access cannot be easily achieved outside of a cleared facility / SCIF. Such facilities are few and far between, and quite often one has to be within driving distance of such facilities. This is why many many federal jobs are concentrated around the DC / northern VA area.
Talent still goes to the urban centers (Score:3)
My observation after decodes of observation is that lack of talent goes to the offsite, low cost locations. Those soles don't justify the office space and salaries needed for the urban centers, but they keep layers of management _in_ the urban centers to supervise them. The result is oftean a slew of second rate and third rate personnel with little ambition and little ability to justify their salaries when they can be, and are, replaced with off-shore personnel.
It can be reasonable for a well defined task, such as a bulky low-cost datacenter. But ideally, the entire facility and workplace would be discarded every 5 years or so. Their tendency to get caught in obsolete procedure, technology, and embedded bureaucracy is legendary in the business world.
Re: Talent still goes to the urban centers (Score:2)
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> Why would you dump and rebuild your entire data center every 5 years?
Because of Moore's Law and corporate budgets. The network infrastructure is often obsolete as are most of the physical storage media. In some cases it can last longer, but the amount of time spent maintaining obsolete and less capable hardware eventually overwhelms the cost of simply replacing all of it with newer hardware.
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That's why we have 'the cloud'. Servers never break down there. (sarcasm).
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That's why we have 'the cloud'. Servers never break down there. (sarcasm).
A server can break down. A redundant and backed up system of servers does not.
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Those go down just as well...the services those machines provide do not go down. That's the difference.
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There is no 'physically go there to repair them." Full constructed plastic replacements made in China are delivered by Amazon the next day.
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Servers what? Never mind the cloud, no sysadmin worth their salt will let developers near their servers in person. Maintaining infrastructure is not a programmers job. Many programmers can kind of do it in a pinch, but like most things it's best left to the professionals.
My office doesn't even have any on site. Neither does the head office, they're all out of the way somewhere off site where land is cheaper. Why host uncaring machines in an area of expensive real estate? If they break, I file a ticket with
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Oh, you're a 'coder'? Great. Your server(s) break down? Someone has to physically go there to repair them.
Well, first off, they invented these things called "back-ups" for just that situation. Second, are your servers breaking down every couple of days? That doesn't sound too reliable. I think you have bigger problems...
That said, we've also had situations where somebody will bork a test server such that it needs to be rebooted. The solution is to place your test server somewhere where there is a person to do that. This could be a datacenter or just a team member's house (since it's a test server). In our
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It could work for some people (Score:2)
Other smaller cities should try something like this. If enough did this, it would cause a major improvement in housing affordability. There are so many jobs now that could be done remotely and are well-paying. Outside of tech startups, most people really don't want to spend time stuffed into ever-smaller offices with zero privacy, located in areas where it's too expensive to live. I'd love to do my job 100% remotely. Hopefully before I retire companies will be done with this butts-in-seats collaboration fan
$700K house (Score:2)
The one who bought a $700K house is an outlier, or overextended.
A $700K house in Tulsa is extravagant, or overpriced.
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I just ran a Zillow search, there’s plenty of homes that sold in the last year in Tulsa between $650K - $750K. Usually over 3,000 sq ft. and half acre lot. Definitely not an outlier. Real estate prices there seem to be pushing up. Seems to be concentrated south of the 64 and north of the 44, east of the river.
Tulsa (Score:2)