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Businesses Space The Almighty Buck IT

Remote Workers Can Get a Cushy Apartment, Free Office Space, and $10K If They Move To Tulsa (nextgov.com) 190

Tulsa, Oklahoma is offering full-time remote workers in the U.S. free office space, a subsidized furnished apartment, and $10,000 cash if you move there and stay for at least one year. The city wants to attract so-called "digital nomads," who would, presumably, start paying taxes, launch businesses, and otherwise contribute to the economy of wherever they're drawn to. Nextgov reports: Tulsa Remote is one of several revitalization projects in the region funded by the George Kaiser Family Foundation. The Tulsa-based philanthropic organization was started by George B. Kaiser, an oil and banking billionaire who has signed on to Warren Buffett and Bill and Melinda Gates' "Giving Pledge," whose wealthy signees promise to give away at least half their fortunes to charity.

The organization has budgeted for 20 new remote workers in the program's first year, says Ken Levit, GKFF's executive director. Applicants must be at least 18, eligible to work in the U.S., already working full-time for an employer based outside the boundaries of Tulsa County, and prepared to move to Tulsa within six months. Applications opened Tuesday at the website TulsaRemote.com; the city hopes to settle the first new residents within the next three months, Levit said.

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Remote Workers Can Get a Cushy Apartment, Free Office Space, and $10K If They Move To Tulsa

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  • by Type44Q ( 1233630 ) on Friday November 16, 2018 @05:16AM (#57654236)
    Tulsa's clearly a great town. Just kidding; the only part of it that didn't completely suck was within the four walls of Wild Oats Supermarket (it was lthe closest you could get to leaving that shitty state)... and Whole Foods put a stop to that a while back.
  • by Qbertino ( 265505 ) <moiraNO@SPAMmodparlor.com> on Friday November 16, 2018 @05:19AM (#57654240)

    Sound like a smart and potentially effective programm to Kickstart local economy to me. If digital natives are what you're looking for this could work way better than throwing obscene amounts of tax cuts in Amazons direction.

    Someone has been thinking outside of the box. That alone makes this program and it's proposal intriguing.

    If I were an USian, I'd check this out.

    • by Anonymous Coward

      I appreciate your comment. TFS struck me as crazy... until I hark back to the day of my midlife crisis: single, employed and stressed out in Silicon Valley. In the end what I did was give away my kidney and move to Europe... but this move to Oklahoma also would have been a cultural experience and opportunity to reboot myself.
      Admittedly, I donâ(TM)t think I could have achieved my goals without renouncing my citizenship... but that is not something on everyone agenda.

    • by elrous0 ( 869638 ) on Friday November 16, 2018 @06:37AM (#57654442)

      It's just a PR stunt. If you read the article, you'll see they only have 20 "slots" available for this program. That's not a serious effort, it's just a PR stunt designed to grab headlines (and it seems to have worked). If this were a serious program, they would be budgeting for hundreds, or even thousands, of workers to participate, not 20.

      • by Anonymous Coward

        Maybe there is a plan for more people and they are just starting small. Ya know, testing it out...instesd of investing in hundreds of thousands of dollars without knowing the type of interest it has.

        Remind me not to hire you for any sort of planning and rollout strategies. Thanks!

      • I'd call it a pilot program. 100 people would have been a better target though.

      • by mikael ( 484 )

        If they can achieve critical mass of workers (around 10,000), then it can work. A walkable downtown core with cafes and restaurant bars helps as well. Usually small cities are really like scale models of large cities. They might be 3x smaller (3 mile radius, rather than 10 mile radius), but the main roads are 3x narrower, so you still get a traffic jam.

        • $10,000 x 10,000 potential businesses = $100,000,000

          $100,000 x 1,000 poorest families = $100,000,000

          I wonder which of those would be a better improvement. Sometimes the poor are poor because they make poor decisions. But, generally, the idea of starting 10,000 businesses in one city seems like it'd only make for a good sitcom.
      • It's just a PR stunt. If you read the article, you'll see they only have 20 "slots" available for this program. That's not a serious effort, it's just a PR stunt designed to grab headlines (and it seems to have worked). If this were a serious program, they would be budgeting for hundreds, or even thousands, of workers to participate, not 20.

        Hey, 20 is a start.

        The real problem is that bringing in the trendoids may eventually wreck what makes the place attractive to begin with.

        "Hey, how come there's no rent control around here? How come they don't let the homeless crap on the sidewalk?"

        • I haven't been there, don't know much beyond the stereo types, but I looked at their promo shots. It looks rather shabby, and under resourced. I'm not sure there's much that could be wrecked; definitely could use some gentrification. Personally, if I was going to go cheap and "rough it" Tulsa certainly wouldn't fill the top slot. I'd much rather go take their median home price and head down to Nicaragua, [ranchosantana.com] Costa Rica [coldwellba...tarica.com], Ecuador [ecuadorhomesales.com], Puerto Rico, [zillow.com] etc..
      • Your method is the best way to run into budget problem or useless empty places. You do a first study, then an initial program with very few places like their 20. THEN if a lot of people start to want to participate, you increase the programs budget and size of available places.
        • by djinn6 ( 1868030 )

          Sometimes it takes a bigger investment to get network effects though. The schools will suck until enough smart people move in and start demanding better schools. Restaurants will be limited to the local flavors until you get a group of people willing to pay more for variety. Internet will be slow until a few thousand techies collectively demand (and pay for) high speed internet.

    • by Ubi_NL ( 313657 ) <joris.benschop@g ... com minus author> on Friday November 16, 2018 @07:17AM (#57654542) Journal

      You may want to have a look at the 2016 elect results for Tusla before you pack your bags

      • by Anonymous Coward

        Tulsa is actually the democratic bastion of Oklahoma.
        There are definitely worse places to live if you're blue.

        • Tulsa is actually the democratic bastion of Oklahoma.

          That applies to almost every city (or cities) in otherwise red states. Look at Texas. Hard-red, except for blue enclaves radiating out from Houston, Dallas, Austin, San Antonio, El Paso and Corpus Christi.

    • by Anonymous Coward

      Sound like a smart and potentially effective programm to Kickstart local economy to me. If digital natives are what you're looking for this could work way better than throwing obscene amounts of tax cuts in Amazons direction.

      Someone has been thinking outside of the box. That alone makes this program and it's proposal intriguing.

      If I were an USian, I'd check this out.

      Your optimism is blinded by ignorance as you envision the perfect outcome of this.

      The reality is more like "digital nomads" coming there and being about as productive as they currently are in their parents basement.

    • My biggest issue is the current political climate.

      Tech workers politically lean left. Oklahoma is a conservative state. This type of actions can change the political landscape of the City and State.

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by geoscodin ( 886628 )

        Not all tech workers lean left. Where I work here in South Carolina, most (not all) of our programmers and systems staff lean not only right, but far right. But then again so does much of the state.

        • I never said ALL I said LEAN.
          Meaning a general trend in that particular direction.
          Yes they are a lot of politically right tech workers, that is fine. But more then half of them have a leftward political bias. If a City is willing to use Government money, to attract these workers into their town, and give these people in essence free money to live there, it is a bit more attractive to the leftward individual, who has more trust in government handouts, then someone on the right.

          • While I used the word "all" I never said that YOU did, although with no clarifer like "some" or "most" you could be interpreted as such. Having done consulting from Massachusetts to Hawaii over the past 20 years I'm not entirely sure you are correct about more thAn half, although I don't have statistics to support either case.

            All that said, I agree with your general premise, if not your opinion on political leanings.

    • by cayenne8 ( 626475 ) on Friday November 16, 2018 @09:00AM (#57654844) Homepage Journal

      If I were an USian, I'd check this out.

      Just to help you out since you're foreign to our lands....we refer to ourselves as "Americans".

      We don't know WTF a "usian" is or means.

      Hope that helps.

      ;)

    • by mjwx ( 966435 )

      Sound like a smart and potentially effective programm to Kickstart local economy to me. If digital natives are what you're looking for this could work way better than throwing obscene amounts of tax cuts in Amazons direction.

      Someone has been thinking outside of the box. That alone makes this program and it's proposal intriguing.

      If I were an USian, I'd check this out.

      Honestly sounds like the worst idea to try to kick start an industry. Bribe people to move there, when the bribes dry up, they'll move somewhere else.

      Australia tried to prop up an unprofitable car industry this way. For decades and hundreds of billions of state funding were thrown at them without any regard. However as soon as the gravy taps were tightened even a little bit, Ford and GM Holden picked up sticks and left.

      If Tulsa wants people to move there, provide the infrastructure. Better public serv

    • If I were an USian, I'd check this out.

      Nah. We USians are familiar with Oklahoma.

    • Oklahoma is one of the lowest cost of living states in the US if someone that is a full time remote worker came on with a company in a higher cost of living state with a higher wage then it could be a smart move even without the subsidized apartment, shared office space, and $10K. The problem is you need to be content with living in a place with little in the way of entertainment, culture, or opportunities for advancement.

      • by Hadlock ( 143607 )

        Yeah moving to Tulsa, unless you are a leader in your specific tech niche, is a dead end for your career. There are no meet-ups, no other tech businesses that you will want to network with/do business with, and local talent is going to be at minimum 5 years behind where you are moving from.

        If you're a digital nomad building CRUD php websites for legacy businesses etc then Tulsa is probably the place for you. Better for Tulsa to have some tech industry, rather than no tech industry....it's a small be

        • Oklahoma would probably be a better place to retire to after you have money although not in Tulsa maybe in the surrounding areas with easy access to services.

          • Because the time you had left to live would seem like forever and when death finally came, it would be sweet relief!

            Decatur Illinois would be even better in that respect.

  • by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Friday November 16, 2018 @05:19AM (#57654242)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • This comment is redundant but who would want to live in Oklahoma. It certainly wouldn't be me. If I wasn't retired and was working remotely I can think of a thousand other places I'd rather live than Oklahoma. I guess if you're just getting started on your career it could be kind of attractive but you usually don't get the privilege of working remotely until you've proven yourself.

    • While it wouldn’t be for me— I need the ocean close— many people can do a lot to change their lives in a year in this kind of scenario. Save money, take risks, etc. Even if the “nomads” don’t stay, there is a chance to impact some locals and potentially set forth positive change.

      One thing that did surprise me though, prompted by this story, is just how many >$1MM homes for sale there are in Tulsa.

    • https://www.zillow.com/homes/f... [zillow.com] Skiatook OK (one of the nicer burbs) real estate

      looks like you can get a 3-4 bedroom house, with land, for a mortgage equal to, or even less, than what you would pay for a shit-hovel apartment in NYC or SF...

      just sayin... that might appeal to some
      • by AuMatar ( 183847 )

        So I get something I need to spend more money, and more importantly time, to maintain and have to drive to get anywhere? And that anywhere only gets me to Tulsa? You're just making it worse.

        • So I get something I need to spend more money, and more importantly time, to maintain and have to drive to get anywhere? And that anywhere only gets me to Tulsa? You're just making it worse.

          That's fine; stay where you are ...

        • Ok... clearly paying 2 thousand bucks a month to a landlord to live in a broom closet is the wise, adult choice...
          • by AuMatar ( 183847 )

            Compared to the pains of owning a house and having to live in the middle of nowhere? Yes it is. I've owned houses- worst mistake I ever made financially and from a personal happiness standpoint.

            • opposite for me..
              my home has appreciated in value handsomely, even counting maintenance against equity, and its affordable enough that one spouse can stay home with our two young children
              • I rent a fairly large place for $700 a month. I have no interest in spending my weekends, or spare money, on upkeep. The housing market is fairly stagnant here and I know people that had to sell their houses for less than they bought. As well my utility costs are significantly lower than a house.

                I have a good gig where I'm working, but if another opportunity came up elsewhere, I could bail pretty quick without the financial burden of a house.

      • Just because I can plop half a million down in OK and get 5,000 sq/ft palatial bubble instead of a broom closet, doesn't mean that on the other side of the bubble isn't OK.
  • Oklahoma is hurtling off of a fiscal cliff, and it's entirely self-inflicted. They must be getting desperate.

    https://www.csmonitor.com/Busi... [csmonitor.com]
    https://www.economist.com/unit... [economist.com]

    • Oklahoma is hurtling off of a fiscal cliff, and it's entirely self-inflicted. They must be getting desperate.

      Seems like the great Republican experiment is cracking at the base.

      The cure of course, is more tax cuts.

  • Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Friday November 16, 2018 @06:17AM (#57654384)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • by Anonymous Coward

      Counter-point: do you want anyone good enough to have career options to work for the government? Because if so, you're going to find a very strong downside to moving the agency to Tulsa as soon as most people quit instead of going there.

    • by PeeAitchPee ( 712652 ) on Friday November 16, 2018 @07:15AM (#57654540)
      The senior people who actually run the gov't on a day-to-day basis live in the metro DC area and that's not changing. Tribal knowledge is key. Two years ago I saw a senior purchasing contract officer try to retire and a large part of an entire agency was unable to buy anything for over six months. Out of desperation, they talked her into coming back part-time for awhile, but she eventually retired for good and shut the thing down for another year, forcing them to send out a ton of RFPs at the very end of fiscal just so they didn't lose funding. Many other parts still require submission of paper invoices and other documentation. Sure they've made progress, but the US Gov't is the world's biggest employer, and customer, and they're based in Washington DC. The investment in infrastructure alone to support even one decent sized Federal agency is staggering. You're living in a fantasy world if you think that's ever changing. On the contrary, as shown by Amazon and others, DC just continues to become more important.
      • by gtall ( 79522 )

        As an example, the VA's computer systems just crumpled under their load and a lot of VA benefits recipients are now even further behind the eight ball. This is what happens when the pols decide that starving an agency so they can piss off the money on their home districts comes back to bite.

        Worse, the last tax giveaway was sold as "paying for itself" because of all that wonderful investment it was going to allow companies to do. The only problem was that companies aren't going to invest if they do not see a

      • by Anonymous Coward

        "Important" as in parasitic. Just FYI.

    • Feds could easily snap their fingers and send several thousand new knowledge worker jobs to Tulsa within the next 1-3 years just by giving marching orders to a few agencies to move out of metro DC and set up jobs in that general region. It would also save the taxpayers probably on the order of 25-40% on contract costs.

      I have never understood why the other 48 states, particularly California with all of its collective bitching about paying more than it receives, has allowed MD and VA to grow fat on all of these jobs. Metro DC could easily be forcibly disassembled by the other 48 states legislatively if they chose to cooperate.

      New jobs, maybe. Moving existing jobs is not easy, for several reasons. First is Congress will protect jobs in their region since they represents voters and money. Moving Fed workers isn't easy either. they have a number of job protections so they can't simply say move. As a result, years of expereince walks out the door, and is not easiliy replaced. Buildings have to meet new security requirements that older ones don't. I've seen some government moves and they often wind up with fewer jibs moving than init

    • I lived in a city where people were trying to do this - Federal spending to keep the city afloat.

      It doesn't work all that well. Recruitment is still incredibly hard, and the city is still a shithole that can't afford to properly operate basic services like schools, younger people who grow up there desperately fleeing the area, and a general sense of dread permeating everything.

      It would be better for the federal government to fund moving everyone who wants to move out, and let the place die.

  • I'm a freelancer who would love to get in on this idea. I don't qualify, however, as I am not a fulltimer. Good luck, Tulsa! Looks like North Carolina remains at the top of my list.

  • by Gravis Zero ( 934156 ) on Friday November 16, 2018 @07:32AM (#57654572)

    There are few places that I warn people about and Oklahoma is one of them.

    First off, about half of Oklahoma's power is generated from burning coal which something they take pride in. However you feel about coal energy, there are health consequences for living downwind from a coal plant. If you are still on board then perhaps you will be interested to know that Oklahoma is deeply Republican, very pro-gun, anti-abortion and anti-science.

    However you feel about these topics, I just think people should know what they are signing up for before the find themselves in a situation they may be unhappy with.

    • by Greyfox ( 87712 ) on Friday November 16, 2018 @08:21AM (#57654678) Homepage Journal
      Apparently they have one of the worst educational systems in the USA too. Alabama, Mississippi and Kentucky might be keeping them from dead last. So if you have kids, you won't be doing them any favors by moving there. Unless you live in Alabama, Mississippi or Kentucky.
      • Indian Americans will be tempted. They dont depend on the school district to educate their children. They spend a lots of time educating the kids at home after school. All kinds of math lessons, and science projects and home work help. So moving to Tulsa might give them lots of easy school topping valedictorian opportunities.

        Already Edison NJ, and Cupertino, CA school districts have been converted to the very same pressure cooker rat race school system of Indian middle class has created in India. Most of

      • by Anonymous Coward

        It brings me great joy to tell you Alabama, Mississippi, and Kentucky all scored higher on the SATs in 2017 than California. How does it feel being dumber than a bunch of inbreed hillbillies?

    • you will be interested to know that Oklahoma is deeply Republican, very pro-gun, anti-abortion

      Sounds like an ideal home for most slashdotters

      and anti-science

      Probably not a deal breaker as long as it's just climate science and Evolution they oppose, as again plenty of people here are fine with that. I doubt that even the most rabidly reactionary Christian fundamentalist is opposed to engineering or chemistry.

      • Educated, liberal women will scotch any idea of moving to such a backward place like Tulsa, OK.

        Pharmacists can refuse to dispense contraception. Plan B not available. Can be prosecuted if you go out of state for abortion.

        Politicians dont care, laws dont apply to them. They get abortions for their family members and other cheating partners all the time out of state. They know they will not be prosecuted. They know people who know people. But working stiffs who might be tempted by 10K and an apartment, th

        • Educated, liberal women will scotch any idea of moving to such a backward place like Tulsa, OK.
          Pharmacists can refuse to dispense contraception. Plan B not available. Can be prosecuted if you go out of state for abortion.

          Educated, liberal people will do the same. Consider their marijuana laws. Life in prison for making hash? Yeah, I'm not going anywhere near those fucks. Oklahoma is not OK. They know nothing about personal freedom.

    • Way to treat fellow Americans as The Other. How much did Putin pay you for this post? If you didn't get paid, you're a sucker to do it for free. The Russians pay good money for people to spread divisive propaganda that sets Americans at each others' throats as you have done.
      • The Russians pay good money for people to spread divisive propaganda that sets Americans at each others' throats

        I knew this could be controversial so I wrote it in a very neutral manner.

        sets Americans at each others' throats as you have done.

        *sigh* I suppose if you are looking for a fight then even windmills will do.

  • ...I personally know a few people who worked in Tusla, and moved away as soon as they had the possibility of remote working.
  • Well the cushy apartment will be great for me, but where will my wife and kids stay?
  • I don't work remotely, but if I was in an industry where all I did was remote work, I don't think I'd pick Tulsa. Would anyone?

    If you need to be in a walkable large city with a diverse culture and lots of things to do, Tulsa doesn't fit the bill.

    If you want to occasionally drive to a large city, there are better cities than Tulsa.

    And if you want to take advantage of working remotely to explore the best of nature (skiing, hiking, mountain climbing, etc), there's still plenty of small rural towns with

    • by Anonymous Coward

      Wasn't Tulsa one of the cities where Google Fiber managed to gain a foothold? Seems like that'd be better for remote work than some rural town where your only options are Comcast and 2x priced DSL.

  • by jjshoe ( 410772 ) on Friday November 16, 2018 @09:15AM (#57654930) Homepage

    Before you rush off to Tulsa for $10k and a little housing subsidy:

    https://www.hrw.org/news/2018/... [hrw.org]

    • Before you rush off to Tulsa for $10k and a little housing subsidy:

      https://www.hrw.org/news/2018/... [hrw.org]

      Seriously. There is the evil duo of Crypto-conservatism again.

      States so incompetent that they legislate themselves into ideological bankruptcy, but they have time to sneak in an important bill to regulate people who don't stick their genitals in the ideologically allowed place.

      This pretty much tell us what living there would be like. Most of the country could care less about who puts what thing where, but the states who do are more concerned about it than they are about fiscal responsibility.

  • Lots of flies and gnats and creatures like that? Then head to Oklahoma!

    How about excessive humidity? They’ve got that in spades!

    When I was a kid, we used to drive through Oklahoma every summer as part of our annual trip from our west coast home to visit my dad’s family in Indiana (speaking of bugs and excessive humidity...). Oklahoma was roughly where the environment started getting unpleasant.

    Colorado, though? I loved Colorado.

  • by erp_consultant ( 2614861 ) on Friday November 16, 2018 @10:10AM (#57655298)

    The general consensus here is that Oklahoma is a shit hole and no way I'd ever live there...etc. I have been to Oklahoma many times and it's not nearly as bad as some here are casting it. Tulsa does have some bad neighborhoods, like nearly every city in the USA, but it isn't terrible. Given the choice I would choose Oklahoma City over Tulsa because there seemed to be more to do. But we did manage to find some very good restaurants there are some nice neighborhoods too.

    On the plus side, if you are young and starting out you can buy a really nice house for surprisingly little money. Think about that while you are scratching a rent check for 4K a month for some closet sized apartment in Silicon Valley. Traffic is not bad either, a nice change from a lot of large US cities. Weather? It's not terrible as long as you can avoid the tornado paths, which always seem to strike the same places year after year.

    Personally, I am fully settled and not looking to move anywhere but if I were young and mobile I would give this some thought. After all, it is only a 1 year commitment.

    • There are options beyond Silicon Valley and Tulsa. And they don't come with all the bible thumping, anti-intellectualism, and shitty government services. Some of them even think your kid's teachers shouldn't live in poverty.

  • by nasor ( 690345 ) on Friday November 16, 2018 @10:30AM (#57655434)
    I am a full-time remote worker who can live anywhere, so this is interesting...but the problem is Tulsa's 4.87% combined state and city income tax. I currently live in a state with no income tax, and paying that extra tax would more than wipe out the $10k. If OK wants to make itself attractive to high-earning teleworkers who can live anywhere, maybe rethinking the state income tax would be a good place to start.
  • Should be an interesting experiment.
  • by meglon ( 1001833 ) on Friday November 16, 2018 @02:27PM (#57657158)
    I put in my time stationed at Fort Sill. The common saying was: Fort Sill isn't Hell, but you can see Hell from the front gate.... and they weren't shitting.

"It's like deja vu all over again." -- Yogi Berra

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