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Australia IT

New Australian Law Will Give Workers 'Right to Disconnect' (seattletimes.com) 97

Posted by EditorDavid from the do-not-call dept.
An anonymous reader shared this report from the New York Times When it's after hours, and the boss is on the line, Australian workers — already among the world's best-rested and most personally fulfilled employees — can soon press "decline" in favor of the seductive call of the beach. In yet another buttress against the scourge of overwork, Australia's Senate on Thursday passed a bill giving workers the right to ignore calls and messages outside of working hours without fear of repercussion. It will now return to the House of Representatives for final approval.

The bill, expected to pass in the House with ease, will let Australian workers refuse "unreasonable" professional communication outside of the workday. Workplaces that punish employees for not responding to such demands could be fined. "Someone who is not being paid 24 hours a day shouldn't be penalized if they're not online and available 24 hours a day," Prime Minister Anthony Albanese said at a news conference Wednesday...

Australia follows in the footsteps of European nations such as France, which in 2017 introduced the right of workers to disconnect from employers while off duty, a move later emulated by Germany, Italy and Belgium. The European Parliament has also called for a law across the European Union that would alleviate the pressure on workers to answer communications off the clock...

Australians already enjoy a host of standardized benefits, including 20 days of paid annual leave, mandatory paid sick leave, "long service" leave of six weeks for those who have remained at an employer for at least seven years, 18 weeks of paid maternity leave and a nationwide minimum wage of about $15 an hour.
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New Australian Law Will Give Workers 'Right to Disconnect' More

New Australian Law Will Give Workers 'Right to Disconnect'

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  • Nice theory but... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Bruce66423 ( 1678196 ) on Sunday February 11, 2024 @08:41AM (#64231672)

    If your company's culture is to expect universal availability, it's going to be hard to be the one who resists. You won't get promoted, and the probability that you survive the next round of lay offs is not high.

    Here's hoping my pessimism is unfounded, but, to me, without a wider range of protections, in many jurisdictions this is a merely inviting people to paint a target on their forehead.

    • Re:Nice theory but... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by sg_oneill ( 159032 ) on Sunday February 11, 2024 @08:44AM (#64231678)

      I've always made it clear that if you want me on call, then I'm expecting to get paid. On a friday night I'm out for beers, call me at that point, you can expect nonsense. And I make sure my bosses know that in advance. Its never given me dramas.

      Be assertive, its your life, nobody elses, and if the boss doesnt like it, well quit and find an employer that respects your time.

    • Yep, all this means is that they can't write you up for this. Big whoop, they just find some other reason to write you up.

    • Re:Nice theory but... (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Teun ( 17872 ) on Sunday February 11, 2024 @09:17AM (#64231716)
      That's the nice thing with having this policy set nation wide in law, there is no difference between one and the other employee.
      Sure, there will be bosses trying anyway and there will be a few people answering those calls.
      In our company we had regulations, when called and answered you would get payed overtime, some days and weekends I would tell them in advance I would be 'out of the house' and the phone switched off.

    • Re:Nice theory but... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Opportunist ( 166417 ) on Sunday February 11, 2024 @09:51AM (#64231754)

      If your company's culture is to expect universal availability,

      ...it's time to dust off your resume and get out of there.

      You won't get promoted

      When was the last time you got promoted? Promotion from inside is a thing of the past, nobody gets promoted anymore. No company wants to open that can of worms anymore. Why Dick instead of Harry. Or worse, and a lawsuit in the making, why Dick instead of Harriette?

      the probability that you survive the next round of lay offs is not high.

      The probability of surviving the next round of lay offs is moot. Either you get fired or you get twice the workload into your back. Neither is a good outcome, so I don't give a fuck if you fire me or try to burn me out with twice the work, I'll be gone. Fired or quitted. And so should you.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

        I don't think it works that way in Australia, their law being somewhat similar to European and UK law.

        If a position is available, they must allow people inside the company to apply for it. If they don't get it when they are qualified and interview well, the company had better be able to explain why. If it becomes a pattern, that's generally speaking enough to claim for discrimination.

        Same goes for this new law. If you can show that, on a balance of probabilities, you were disadvantaged by not taking out-of-

      • >...it's time to dust off your resume and get out of there.

        Do you like having online resources functional outside of M-F 9-5?
        That means people are on-call.

    • Reminds me of the "culture of working overtime without pay" in Japan's mickey-dee.

      They kept at it after it was banned by law, and a couple of large-profile lawsuits with big payouts made them reconsider.

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by keltor ( 99721 ) *
        That's not at all what happened. The shift supervisor (who was titled manager) was not overtime allowed because they were in "management" but in reality they of course did work, so the course very much sided with the manager. It was not a thing Japan McDonald's wide but like a combination of factors at that one particular store. Shift supervisors get paid overtime and managers do not. Overtime has never seen to been a big deal in Japan at least for the last 24 years. I don't even have to have approval

    • You won't get promoted, and the probability that you survive the next round of lay offs is not high.

      Already happening. Remote workers are already 35% more likely to be laid off [businessinsider.com] than people who come to the office and 31% more likely to not get promoted [forbes.com] than those who come to the office.

    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by smoot123 ( 1027084 )

      Here's hoping my pessimism is unfounded, but, to me, without a wider range of protections, in many jurisdictions this is a merely inviting people to paint a target on their forehead.

      You're missing the biggest protection: the door. There are lots of jobs out there. Some will require being connected 24-7. Others will not. If you don't like, vote with your feet. In short order, the company will find it has to start offering more to get people to accept offers. Win-win! People will find themselves either getting higher compensation for the connected culture or at a job where they can clock out.

      Seriously though, this is just going to encourage companies to not hire in Oz. It's not like they

      • The vast numbers departing from Silicon Valley companies is making the door ever less attractive. So - yes in theory - but beware...

      • My understanding is this legislation is prompted by The Greens, so it's more part of their political grandstanding/vision than solving a real problem. Like you, I don't see Australia has a culture of workers being called up by managers for info or additional work outside of hours. Happy to be shown otherwise, I only work in a single industry.

        • My understanding is this legislation is prompted by The Greens, so it's more part of their political grandstanding/vision than solving a real problem. Like you, I don't see Australia has a culture of workers being called up by managers for info or additional work outside of hours. Happy to be shown otherwise, I only work in a single industry.

          I have no doubt.

          We all hear stories and see in the media of Bosses from Hell, who hound their underlings at all times of the day and night. As you say, I've never personally encountered this but I've only worked in one industry (enterprise software development) and in one area (Silicon Valley) so I don't have a lot of insight. The closest I get is working with company sales teams and working with people I hire for work around the house (who, unsurprisingly, also seem very willing to answer the phone at all

    • No one likes or promotes a kiss-ass or suck up employee. If you want to get to the top, the only sure fire methods are to be related to the boss or fuck them if you're not.
    • I do not check my emails after I leave the office. If there is something urgent, I instruct people to call me. It gives me the opportunity to give the appropriate response if it is not urgent at all.
      Sure, I have colleagues and bosses who demand that you reply. Some even resemble junkies. There brain will blow if you do not respond. I have had it with these types. In a lot of cases they are not even the big contributers to the company. They are a lot of hot air and lack the discipline to work organized. In
    • Mod up, exactly correct. But also know that law is going to be amended because the word 'reasonable' has many interpretations. Once I was well paid for being 'Oncall' . Then when Blackberries and long texts became possible - strangely that went away. I always claimed the 3-4 hours minimum when not on-call after advising the other end to approve it now or hang up. Sometimes I was charitable. Now the employer said take time in lieu - without understanding shift work does not work that way. But there were b

    • Re:Nice theory but... (Score:4, Informative)

      by nightflameauto ( 6607976 ) on Monday February 12, 2024 @12:21PM (#64234284)

      If your company's culture is to expect universal availability, it's going to be hard to be the one who resists. You won't get promoted, and the probability that you survive the next round of lay offs is not high.

      Here's hoping my pessimism is unfounded, but, to me, without a wider range of protections, in many jurisdictions this is a merely inviting people to paint a target on their forehead.

      This sounds like an American, which I am, trying to wrap their head around the concept of employee protections in a society that has such a thing. Don't worry. This type of tyrannical "employees are people too" nonsense won't ever grace our shores in the United States. The owner class needs protected here. Employees need to eat more shit and be told it's the finest of caviar.

  • What do you mean with "unreasonable"? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Opportunist ( 166417 ) on Sunday February 11, 2024 @09:02AM (#64231700)

    Unless I'm on call and get paid for it, any call from work is unreasonable.

    You want my time, pay for it. You want me to be available, pay for it. You don't want to pay for it, fuck off.

    • This is the only answer. And because it would take about 2 seconds for every employer everywhere to add 'on call' to every employee's job description... it has to be legislated very firmly.

      You contract with a company to do a job, usually with set hours. Outside of those hours, as far as the company is concerned you should not exist.

      If they need you beyond that it should be in the employment contract, and the time limits and premiums paid on having someone on call or to have them work outside their usual h

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by sjames ( 1099 )

        I don't know Austrailian law, but in some places on-call time carries a minimum rate of pay in addition to work hours. Employers may violate that if they like, but if a local labor board determines they were constructively demanding on-call without pay, they may end up owing a lot of back pay and penalties.

        • I can assure you that this definitely applies in Australia.

          In fact, I've been backpaid based on casual violations of it myself... and in my case I only even know about the violation due to my employer doing an internal audit and telling me.

    • Like I already said in a other comment in this thread, they should pay you for every hour that you are required to be on standby. Not just a flat rate from the day like many companies do. If I can't leave home and do whatever I want with the day, you owe me for the entirety of that time.

    • All well and good until you do something likie

      Forget to hand over a critical document or system to someone that needs it overnight
      disappear after making a breaking change and then not answer your calls

      there are lots of other edge cases, the two above are just ones I know we have had with team members and if they didn't take the call they would quickly find they had no job the next day. It is a balancing act, yes most contact outside of hours is unacceptable, but a certain percentage are essential. So u

      • > Forget to hand over a critical document or system to someone that needs it overnight
        > disappear after making a breaking change and then not answer your calls

        No changes whatsoever should be anywhere near production until they've been throughly tested by independent testing teams and all work has been signed off. This includes production/securing of all documentation, all code and anything else that's required.

        If you're a medium to large scale organisation and you're not managing your change process

      • If I break something before going on vacation and production is at a standstill, either the processes in the company are complete rubbish or I broke process. In the latter case, I should be punished for breaking security processes, in the former, whoever is responsible for establishing the formal process of pushing something into production should be.

        In neither case this has anything to do with me dropping the hammer at 5pm.

        In case of the document, why doesn't someone have access to critical documents? Eith

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

        All well and good until you do something likie

        Forget to hand over a critical document or system to someone that needs it overnight
        disappear after making a breaking change and then not answer your calls

        there are lots of other edge cases, the two above are just ones I know we have had with team members and if they didn't take the call they would quickly find they had no job the next day. It is a balancing act, yes most contact outside of hours is unacceptable, but a certain percentage are essential. So unless

        • In the case of forget to hand over the document the company failed to submit a tender ontime resulting in the loss of 1.5m for the tender work and exponentially more than that if we had won the tender (can't really count that bit though as no guarentee of winning).

          with the incident of disappearing after a change at 6pm. It was 2,000 users unable to work in another timezone as the day was not over for them. Not sure how much it cost, but it was enough for him to be fired.
    • I used to have this one boss who would email out a set of questions at or about 8 pm Sunday evenings, and then expect that by 8 am, for the monday morning meeting, we would have answers. If you were one of the people that came up with answers all the time, then he would ensure you got remunerated for that work. If you came up with answers less than almost all the time, he would do his damnedest to see you punished. He was known for this and people would 'vote with their feet' the first time he would try thi

  • Unless you're a willing participant in the on-call roster, give them your land line number. Or the same toll free number for reckless truck drivers. 1-800 -EAT-somethingsomething like that.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Misagon ( 1135 )

      I would, but land-lines aren't available in all areas. And in many places where they are, telcos are setting prices exorbitantly high to coerce people to quit.

      I consider myself lucky to have relatively cheap ... IP-telephony, at home, to a "classic" phone (as much as a cordless digital DECT phone is a "classic phone"). But in many areas, you can't even get wired broadband.

  • Dodge the snakes, spiders, kangaroos, octopi, and whatever else is trying to kill you in Australia. Maybe it's safer to answer the work email.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by jonwil ( 467024 )

      As an Aussie I can confirm that it is in fact possible to get caught out by a dangerous animal but you would probably have to be doing something stupid (or hit a very rare circumstance) for it to happen.

      I live in suburbia and the last time I saw a snake or kangaroo was at a zoo, the last time I saw an octopus was at a fishmonger and spiders aren't a problem if you leave them alone (or hit em with the bug spray :)
      Snakes can show up in suburbia but if you leave them alone you should be fine.

      The biggest pest a

      • As a foreigner who visited Australia and was regaled of stories of all the nasty critters... I saw a koala at a koala sanctuary and some roos at the zoo.

        No dinner-plate-sized spiders in the gardens. No snakes. Didn't bump in to Paul Hogan. I also learned there are multiple Australian accents and none of them sounded like Croc Dundee.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by HBI ( 10338492 )

          I was at the Billabong Sanctuary [billabongs...ary.com.au] in Townsville in Queensland in 2005. I was on line to 'hold a koala bear', figured my daughters would like the picture. I watched a woman about 5 people in front of me not hold the animal firmly and it clawed her pretty significantly. I still held the bear, it just felt insecure in her hands, but even those 'mundane' animals you refer to could easily gut you. Well, at least koalas.

          I saw some other idiot dressed like Steve Irwin on staff poking at a 14' croc with a stick,

          • I did the 'hold a koala' thing. I was very careful, being fully aware those talons are razor sharp for climbing bark. Held the little fella as gently as I could, but I could still feel the points starting to dig in to my shoulder. Honestly, the tourist photo snap couldn't happen quickly enough but I survived.

            Nowadays I don't think I'd be up for that, leave the guys alone... they're not house cats. Besides, they all have chlamydia.

      • but the dropbears will soon work out urban environments will suit them to a 't'

      • I also live in suburbia and have seen 4 tiger snakes lying across or near a footpath this summer while out walking the dog. Any one of these encounters could have resulted in death. Any park or path near a creek or river is something I'm very careful around right now.

        Australia is trying to kill you but American teens are better at it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]

      • A bull shark took a bite out of a woman's leg just down the hill from my Sydney apartment the other day. You can argue about whether swimming in the harbour is "stupid", but it's something a lot of people do.

  • I get the distinct impression from the way the summary is phrased that the article has a heavy "Look how good they already have it, and they want MORE, the leeches!" slant, rather than "It's actually possible to have these things in life. Fight for it, damn it!"

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by sd4f ( 1891894 )

      Australia has become a place which has gotten used to sort of beating down expectations of workers rights. There have been a few wage theft scandals, a clear immigration policy which aims to import workers for the sole purpose of making them exploitable. The problem is that this has been going on for 20-30 years, so business have definitely gotten used to the idea that workers have no ability to make demands; don't like it? There are 20 immigrants who will happily do it for less... Immigration is specifical

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by sd4f ( 1891894 )
        Correction - Fact checked the definition of employed, it's not 1 hour every two weeks, but rather at least 1 hour in a week. Still woefully inadequate to survive.

  • I work with people in France and it's common, but a hassle for them to literally have two phones - one for work and one for personal that they tote around all the time. The work phone gets switched off at the end of the work day. It seems like their company (big multinational) couldn't work out how to comply with the law without just giving them a separate item to turn off. They are very observant of it too!

    • I have two phones. When the company wanted me on call, I asked them to supply a phone for that purpose. No crossing of personal and work for me. They don't get access in any way to my phone, and I don't do anything to theirs that isn't at their request.

      When I'm on call, the work phone stays on and the volume is up. If I'm not, it's scheduled to mute itself as soon as the work day ends and stay that way on a table until the next work day starts.

      I highly recommend it.

      • A separate phone for work should be a golden standard, and not just for on call reasons. These days every single employer tries to con you into installing their software on your phone. Mail clients, authenticators, timesheets and what nots. The problem is that many, if not most, of those apps have very invasive permissions and some of them come with MDM which effectively gives your employer access and control to your personal data. This should never be allowed to happen. It's my device. If you require me to

        • Realistically you could get away just enough power to run an MFA app and an email client. VOIP and/or IM would be a bonus. Data plan only unless you're fine restricting it to WiFi access. Doesn't need GPS or a camera or anything else.

          Essentially, you're talking about a glorified security token and pager and the only thing you'd be asking an employee to hand over would be a tiny little sliver of their Internet bandwidth.

    • In the company I work for (in France), we have the choice between an 2nd, company-supplied phone, and a BYOD option.

      Most of the managers or people who tend to get more phone calls instead of mostly chat and e-mail messages choose the 2-phone option.
      It is nice to have the choice, though each option has its disadvantages and constraints.

      In any case, I do not feel the right to disconnect law here has been life-changing. People are a bit more careful to avoid messages after 8 Pm, but except for the few people w

  • Exclusion for IT (Score:3, Interesting)

    by olmsfam ( 1399493 ) on Sunday February 11, 2024 @01:07PM (#64232094)

    I will bet money they carve out an exclusion for IT. I'm not sure why but seems like there is always an exclusion in laws like these for IT people. We get paid less than doctors an lawyers yet expected to work all hours all day everyday. No wonder the burnout is real.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by mjwx ( 966435 )

      I will bet money they carve out an exclusion for IT. I'm not sure why but seems like there is always an exclusion in laws like these for IT people. We get paid less than doctors an lawyers yet expected to work all hours all day everyday. No wonder the burnout is real.

      Knowing Australia, the exclusion will be that on call will need to be paid. Maybe up to the point where an award will be set. This isn't unreasonable, in fact in Australia when you have an on call requirement in IT you expect to get paid for the time you're on call, same as the UK. IT was one of the few industries where on call payments were commonplace.

      • Australia has a LOT of trouble here, especially shiftwork. There is a max for the numbers of hours worked per week. Shiftworkers, think nurse, junior doctors, mines have hard NO's. Technically a 8 minute phonecall could trigger full pay for 12 hours, possibly double time or more, too. Meanwhile plumbers and plastic surgeons get full pay for the slightest call. Like the UK, Australian A&E junior doctors already work illegal hours. When they start enforcing their new rights, lame computer payroll systems
  • This is aimed at lower level employees badgered by twit managers. Executives with high salaries + free cars + free stock + bonuses tied to fake sales numbers will still take phone calls.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by sd4f ( 1891894 )
      I think the difference is though, that at higher levels, they know how to motivate and adequately remunerate, but if you're just a regular wage slave, then there's only an expectation to work, and if you're lucky, they'll pay some lip service to a promotion... We'll see...

  • Australians already enjoy a host of standardized benefits, including 20 days of paid annual leave, mandatory paid sick leave, "long service" leave of six weeks for those who have remained at an employer for at least seven years, 18 weeks of paid maternity leave and a nationwide minimum wage of about $15 an hour.

    I believe these are quite standard in developed countries, US being an exception on that front.

    • Long Service leave (which is more commonly granted after 10 years service, and is usually about 8 weeks at that point) does seem somewhat specific to Australia - goes back to a tradition of people going back to visit the UK by ship, after working in the colonies a while.
      But otherwise yeah.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by sd4f ( 1891894 )

      They don't mention that sick leave is limited to 10 days at full time equivalent though. Ok if you need an extra day off here and there (called "taking a sickie" in Australian parlance), or genuinely want to stay at home to fight a nasty flu, but kind of left in the lurch if you have something more significant to treat, and don't have additional benefits or insurance to cover it.

      I also hated the fact that over the Christmas and New years period, a lot of engineering fields shut down, and force workers to ta

  • Don't call unless the place is on fire.

    Also don't make changes on a Friday or in the afternoon. Plan and test properly and you don't need to mess up peoples off time. I've managed 100s of employees. Not one had a reason to complain. 99.99% uptime for the last 5 years. You do it right and it all can get done in regular working hours or you just push it until the next morning.

    Agile is part of the problem. Constantly pushing out "improvements" means you can't test properly. So something breaks and you get that

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