North Korea Denies Responsibility for Sony Attack, Warns Against Retaliation 236
jones_supa writes: A North Korean official said that the secretive regime wants to mount a joint investigation with the United States to identify who was behind the cyber attack against Sony Pictures. An unnamed spokesman of the North Korean foreign ministry was quoted by the country's state news agency, KCNA, describing U.S. claims they were behind the hack as "slander." "As the United States is spreading groundless allegations and slandering us, we propose a joint investigation with it into this incident," the official said, according to Agence France-Presse. Both the FBI and President Barack Obama have said evidence was uncovered linking the hack to to North Korea, but some experts have questioned the evidence tying the attack to Pyongyang.
Meanwhile, reader hessian notes that 2600: The Hacker Quarterly has offered to let the hacker community distribute The Interview for Sony. It's an offer Sony may actually find useful, since the company is now considering releasing the movie on a "different platform." Reader Nicola Hahn warns that we shouldn't be too quick to accept North Korea as the bad guy in this situation:
Most of the media has accepted North Korea's culpability with little visible skepticism. There is one exception: Kim Zetter at Wired has decried the evidence as flimsy and vocally warns about the danger of jumping to conclusions. Surely we all remember high-ranking, ostensibly credible, officials warning about the smoking gun that comes in the form of a mushroom cloud? This underscores the ability of the agenda-setting elements of the press to frame issues and control the acceptable limits of debate. Some would even say that what's happening reveals tools of modern social control (PDF).
Whether or not they're responsible for the attack, North Korea has now warned of "serious consequences" if the U.S. takes action against them for it.
of course it wasn't NK (Score:5, Interesting)
US gov't never passes on an opportunity to fabricate stories which make their foes look bad (Russia, Syria, Iran, Lybia, Venezuela, etc)
Re:of course it wasn't NK (Score:5, Insightful)
Thank you. I don't know why so much of Slashdot seems to be taking the obvious "it was NK omg" story at face value, even after NK explicitly denied it. They take credit for things they've never done - if they'd hacked Sony successfully, of course they'd be bragging about it.
Re: of course it wasn't NK (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Well, nobody else is gonna say "Hey, no, that was me" when NK claims to have perfected cold fusion, or finding a cave full of mystical unicorns.
Re: (Score:2)
Except that argument wouldn't hold up in any court of Law (specific finding not to hand, it is an oft-used EWHC precedent holding that because someone lied about something else doesn't mean they lied about the matter at hand)
Re: (Score:2)
They gain more by claiming that the Americans are idiots who make wild accusations, and offering their technical assistance. At the same time their primary goal, stopping the release of the film and drawing attention to their displeasure with it, has been achieved.
Re:of course it wasn't NK (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't know why so much of Slashdot seems to be taking the obvious "it was NK omg" story at face value, even after NK explicitly denied it.
Ah yes, because the North Koreans have a history of being so honest and forthright?
Re:of course it wasn't NK (Score:4, Funny)
They should have confessed because then they'd be off the hook.
Re: (Score:2)
They should have confessed because then they'd be off the hook.
It doesn't matter what they say, the evidence will speak for itself. The North Koreans are well known for outrageous bellicose pontification.
And now Sony is know for having no spine.
Re: (Score:3)
Really, it's Regal Cinemas that's spineless. Sony didn't have much choice once so many theaters pulled out
Sony has a lot of pull with theatre chains, who need Sony to push the "blockbusters" their direction first. If Sony had wanted this film in theatres, it would have been in theatres.
Re: (Score:2)
It would have been in some theaters, but not the two largest chains. The movie industry has a number of rules / conventions (some contractual) pertaining to theatrical releases, so Sony decided to try again later instead of just release in some theaters.
They easily could have released already via another distribution channel (such as their own streaming service, Crackle), but they are probably still hoping for a high-gross opening weekend in theaters, which they will no doubt get after all the publicity the
Re:of course it wasn't NK (Score:5, Insightful)
The Americans are not exactly known of their honesty either. Both are equally liable to be lying.
Re: (Score:3)
The Americans are not exactly known of their honesty either. Both are equally liable to be lying.
Apperently we Americans are better at it, as *everything* coming out of North Korea lands as bombastic humor.
Re:of course it wasn't NK (Score:4, Insightful)
Apperently we Americans are better at it, as *everything* coming out of North Korea lands as bombastic humor.
Believe it or not, most of what comes out of America sounds the same to the rest of the world. It's been toned down since Obama got in, from the height of the War on Terror (TM). More generally all the rhetoric about the US being the greatest country on earth and the daily pledge of allegiance that school kids are forced to recite seems awfully similar to what certain other countries do, which is probably no surprise as much of it was originally a over-reaction to Soviet propaganda.
Re: (Score:2)
lol. seriously, if you're trying to equate NK and the US in terms of truth-telling you're a buffoon. unless you actually believe any of the crazy-ass shit that comes out of NK. at least the US is willing to admit that our leader sucks at golf and bowling.
Re: (Score:2)
OMG, you're 100% correct.
It's like how football players always fake left and jink right, never the other way round.
Re: (Score:2)
Funny how nobody gave Afghanistan the same benefit of the doubt, and with just as flimsy of 'evidence'. Surrounded by a bunch of damn hypocrites.
And watch what happens now...
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
The reason is the USA government has a pretty good track record of not blaming foreign countries for stuff they didn't do. Meanwhile US opponents have a long history of denying involvement when they were. Comparing what is know 10 years later is pretty close to what you get from blindly believing the USA government on culpability.
Re: (Score:3)
Oh what? They blamed Iraq for plenty of things they didn't do, and they've never presented evidence for all the claims of cyber attacks from Russia and China.
Re: (Score:2)
What are they supposed to do? Publish a list of files stolen from $_DoD_Contractor's network?
Re: (Score:2)
What did the USA blame Iraq for having done to us they didn't do? I can't think of much of anything. Now they certainly got stuff wrong about what was happening in Iraq and our record isn't so hot on that but accusations of specific violations we are pretty good on.
And Iraq on WMDs is somewhat exceptional in that they were sending out fake signals for internal and external reasons.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
uh, what?
"We know Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11" (how?? They can't even explain how a PASSPORT survived a plane crash and subsequent inferno that burned through a building with enough intensity to *melt construction steel* and vapourise a black box flight recorder, without a scratch, and end up three blocks away in a plastic bag) "...so we'll invade them anyway using a two pronged pretext: that they did, and that they have WMDs." (we know they *did* have WMDs, Rumsfeld got caught shredding the shipping m
Re: (Score:3)
I think your Maine premise is flawed.
Re: (Score:2)
Pretty much this. This ain't some 9/11 stunt where it's a given that you'll get your head kicked in if you say you did it. This is something where NK could've given the US the middle finger and shown that their "virtual army" is a force that should not be ignored.
Why should NK not claim they did it? Because of international backlash? Please. Because they fear retaliation from the US? Bluntly, if NK had the power to pull something like this off, they would not have to fear retaliation.
Re: (Score:2)
Bluntly, if NK had the power to pull something like this off, they would not have to fear retaliation.
What??? They're facing retaliation now and they're still claiming they didn't do it. What kind of logic were you just using?
Re: (Score:3)
Did No Such Agency ever publicly take credit for the Iranian centrifuge debacle?!? No? So I wouldn't expect NK to do it either if they did.
Re: (Score:2)
There's a concerted push to put the blame on NK for this. The precise reason is beyond me, but I'm very suspicious somebody is taking advantage of the situation to put NK in a defensive position, be it Sony, the FBI, other parts of the U.S. government, or even the Guardians of Peace themselves.
I find the FBI's explanation of why it was NK incredibly weak. Behavioral "patterns" do not constitute strong evidence. If anything, it's a starting point in an investigation, and no more than that. Impersonation of o
Incompetence vs Conspiracy (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
In that case, Sony would have nothing to fear from releasing the film - and a lot to monetarily gain from it.
Re:Incompetence vs Conspiracy (Score:5, Insightful)
Karma's a bitch.
False Falg? (Score:4, Insightful)
The more this unravels the more I smell false flag.
Re: (Score:2)
The more this unravels the more I smell false flag.
Who had something to gain? Has there been an extortion of cash, a request for payments? No, simply a specific demand to shit-can a specific movie that a specific party has already made bellicose threats over.
Nobody else but the North Koreans have anything at all to gain, except maybe Seth Rogen, now that everyone wants to see his shitty movie that otherwise would have faded away within two weeks of the premier.
But again, who has already made threats over this film?
The more this unravels the more the conspi
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
Sony.
This movie that was going to flop as unfunny... now is rated 10/10 on IMDB and would rake in millions should Sony release it in the next few weeks.
No way is this a Sony PR stunt (Score:3)
The top leadership at Sony Pictures is about to be booted out of their jobs and are so tainted that no other studio will hire them. I don't think this was their idea of a way to promote a film.
Re:False Falg? (Score:4, Insightful)
One thing every thoughtful fan of the mystery story knows is that in real life, motivation tells you very little about who done what. That's because *most* people, when faced with a problem, don't even consider murder. Murderers are not typical people.
The same goes for hackers. When companies first started putting Internet connections back in the 90s in I would explain that they need to start taking steps to secure their networks, and almost without exception the response was "Why? Why would anyone be interested in hacking *us*?" And I had to explain that the Internet was accessible to *everyone*, including people whose motivations and ways of thinking would make no sense to them.
Motivation may have limited use in perhaps identifying some possible suspects, but it's not probative of anything. You can't rule anyone out or in based on what you think their motivations are or should be. The only way to know that somebody has done something is by following the chain of evidence that leads to some concrete action they've taken.
Re: (Score:3)
You know... I was pretty sure it was NK as well...
But it's really getting fishy.
For example, why was the CIA meeting with Sony just a month prior to this happening?
http://radaronline.com/exclusi... [radaronline.com]
And it even specifically says the talks were about Sony and other studios helping them with, what can only be described as, propaganda.
Something... and I don't know what... but something, is up.
Re:False Falg? (Score:5, Funny)
For example, why was the CIA meeting with Sony just a month prior to this happening? [link to Radaronline.com]
Ah, yes, Radaronline. An excellent journalistic news site right up there with the Washington Post and the New York Times, especially if you are interested in the latest buzz about Kim Kardashian's ass, and what Justin Bieber is up to. It's my "go-to" site for factual news about international politics!
Re: (Score:2)
The more this unravels the more I smell false flag.
Who had something to gain?
Sony. If they release the movie now, a lot of people will see it that otherwise wouldn't have been interested. I am still sticking to my theory that the hacking was staged, the released emails are fake, and the whole thing is a publicity stunt.
Re: (Score:2)
Who had something to gain?
Those who wish to impose further regulations and control upon the Internet. With the flurry of news surrounding all things Sony, you might have missed it, but yesterday Obama came out with this gem:
"We need more rules about how the internet should operate [boingboing.net]."
So, cui bono? The US Government, that's cui.
Re: (Score:3)
Also how could you or I know whether there have been other demands or not?
The North Koreans have publically made demands with respect to this movie both before and after the hack. It's been in the news for awhile.
Re: (Score:3)
I'm not sure that's good for North Korea.
Sure it is. NK's goal is not to "get" Sony. It is to maintain the reputation of their leader as a psychopathic kook. This will strengthen their hand in future negotiations over important issues. If you act reasonable, your adversaries will insist on an outcome that is "fair". But if act like an irrational psychopath, your adversaries will settle for any outcome that is even halfway sane. The Kim dynasty has been using this strategy since 1950, and it has worked well for them.
Re: (Score:2)
They must have learned from our republicans.
Re: (Score:2)
Are you in Spain?
Re: (Score:2)
I'm not sure that's good for North Korea.
Sure it is. NK's goal is not to "get" Sony. It is to maintain the reputation of their leader as a psychopathic kook. This will strengthen their hand in future negotiations over important issues. If you act reasonable, your adversaries will insist on an outcome that is "fair". But if act like an irrational psychopath, your adversaries will settle for any outcome that is even halfway sane. The Kim dynasty has been using this strategy since 1950, and it has worked well for them.
Worked for Nixon.
Re: (Score:2)
Almost nobody had heard about the movie, now everyone has. I'm not sure that's good for North Korea.
You think North Korea is more internet-savvy than Barbara Streisand?
Re:False Falg? (Score:4, Insightful)
Thinking the same... I mean Target was hit, Home Depot, Chase, etc.. No one made a big deal about it until the MAFIAA got hit. Now it's suddenly a cyber 9/11? Sony is the only one to blame here.. They have been hit MULTIPLE times and still failed to secure their networks. It did however shed a lot of light on the questionable practices they're using to attack the internet and Google.
It's kind of sad, but I'm more inclined to believe North Korea than our own government on this one. Sony isn't even in the US... It's primarily based out of Japan. Where is Japan's response? They've barely even mentioned the incident. Honestly, I wouldn't even put it past Sony or another MAFIAA member doing it. A cyber 9/11 would benefit them in the sense that it would provide the fear-mongering to enact exactly what Sony wants.
Re: (Score:2)
What a dopey comparison - when Target, Home Depot, and Chase were hit, they didn't CLOSE THEIR FUCKING STORES based on groundless threats from hackers half a world away. Sony did exactly that - they took a $42 million movie and decided to take a complete loss on it, at least for now. That's why it's big news.
As for Sony being based in Japan, what's that got to do with anything when you're talking about a multi-national corporation? What country do you think Sony makes the lion's share of its profits in?
Re: (Score:2)
The more this unravels the more I smell false flag.
Only now do we feel the loss of President Ronald Reagan. The moment President Obama failed to dispatch Senator Fred Thompson with an elite-ops "A" team including Candice Bergen and Vice-President Dan Qualye, to deal with this egrigious crime, I smelled something, too.
Whether it was NK or not doesn't matter (Score:2)
Iraq didn't have WMDs, people are spirited away to Guantanamo Bay without being charged, and the NSA spies on literally the entire world without justifiable cause. The US just does what it wants, and right now it seems like it wants to inject some Freedom into North Korea.
Re: (Score:2)
Because freedom in North Korea would be the worstest thing ever.
Re:Whether it was NK or not doesn't matter (Score:4, Interesting)
I used Freedom with a capital F as a technical term. Actual freedom would be very good, as North Korea is one of the worst places in the world. Things like the 3-generation punishment policy, widespread famine, an insane ruler, prison camps, etc. etc. should just not exist anywhere on earth. However, my point was that the US does whatever it wants, not that NK isn't a horrible place.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Except that English does work like that http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C... [wikipedia.org]
It must suck when foreigners speak your native language better than you do.
Re: Whether it was NK or not doesn't matter (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Sure the US want to export freedom to NK. Since there's not really any use for it anymore at home...
And OJ offers a reward to find the real killer (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
North Korea has already said that they approve of the hacks. Now they want to "join in the investigation" and if they're refused, "something bad will happen?"
North Korea needs to be told in plain language "Get bent!" Whether they were the source or not is now irrelevant, given their latest threat.
There is no way that anyone else will let North Korea see how their intelligence service works, same as they don't show theirs to anyone else.
Re: (Score:2)
The U.S. should bear in mind that it will face serious consequences in case it rejects our proposal for joint investigation and presses for what it called countermeasure while finding fault with the DPRK.
If it rejects and begins countermeasures. Meaning if the US launches a military attack, they'll (try to) defend themselves. Nothing special or surprising there IMO.
Re: (Score:2)
well, we know that they have the ability to detonate large explosives under mountains (whether or not it was nuclear... I'll leave to the imagination), they don't need ICBMs or even IRBMs to deliver a nuke (if that's what it was), since any military action would be over land, they could deliver one with a box van. Lots less conspicuous and lots harder to intercept than a cruise missile.
Re: (Score:3)
On the other hand, we know for certain that the US has launched cyber attacks against other countries. They hit Iran with Struxnet, for example, and are suspected of various other attacks. We know that the NSA has infested many, many systems. We know that their British partner agency, GCHQ, hacks other countries on a regular basis.
Any complaints from the US are at best hypocrisy. It's hard to believe US intelligence after all the lies of the past, so I'd say it's equally likely that North Korea is telling t
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I doubt it was North Korea (Score:5, Insightful)
For one thing, if North Korea was capable of this sort of hack they've got more tempting targets to use that capability on. And it's just a bit too convenient, coming on the heels of a disappointing performance by Sony, for SPE to suddenly get an excuse to get out from under another apparent flop. My bet is the hack's just another in a long string of breaches by the usual gangs of malcontents, aided and abetted by corporate obliviousness to security, and various parties are just taking advantage of superficial connections for their own reasons.
Re: (Score:2)
As soon as I heard about it, I thought the same thing - basically, they've tipped their hand for a worthless pot.
Trial run? Umm, with secret weapons that's generally not a good idea. See also: Britain, tanks, Cambrai.
Re: (Score:2)
Such as? A commercial company is probably a far easier target than a military institution. And maybe some of the military breaches we've heard about were from them. Many breaches are not even made public.
Re: (Score:3)
"more tempting targets"
You need to consider not just how tempting the target is but what the potential repercussions are. Sony does not have a military force, they're going to be distracted by the blow back from the leaked material, and there are limited civil venues where they could pursue action. Even if there is overwhelming evidence that NK did do this I predict there no meaningful consequences.
Country that forbids use to internet (Score:4, Insightful)
is cyber superpower?
I am not buying it. They could have smart people that would make talented hackers. But good luck finding them because they most likely don't even own a computer.
Re: (Score:2)
is cyber superpower? I am not buying it. They could have smart people that would make talented hackers.
How hard is it to hire a team of hackers to do the hacking for you? I imagine even North Korea is capable of throwing some money around.
Re: (Score:2)
NK GDP: (2011) 12.4Bn USD. That's *less* than the annual CAFCASS budget. That's right, a non-departmental Government agency in England has a larger budget than the total output of an entire fucking country.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:3)
You missed my point. They may appear that they have a decent cyber unit. But we know from their missile tests that were utter failure that is probably more than a wish than a reality.
In US, NSA hires talented hackers/programmers, as their skills are already established. For that to work, they need all population to have access to the internet.. So how does NK does same when they forbid the internet to the masses? Even if they had prospective talent, they would not be able to recognize them.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
They could have smart people that would make talented hackers. But good luck finding them because they most likely don't even own a computer.
So you don't think that the North Korean state is able to identify people with strong STEM skill and potential, provide them with access to computers, and train them in hacking over a period of years?
That leaves me with just one question ..... where can I find the smart people here?
Re: (Score:2)
They are known to have a 'hackers university', state sponsored thats considered one of the best places to work. Not only are you taken care of and live in a life of luxury, so is your family, and its a pretty good life by all accounts, especially for a NK citizen.
'Hacking' isn't difficult when you're paid to sit around and do it all day long. Any serious network admin knows just how painfully easy it is to get into pretty much any network outside of a place like Google which has the knowledge and understa
"serious consequences"??? (Score:3)
official statement (Score:5, Informative)
The North Korean news agency mentioned (KCNA) has the statement on their website [www.kcna.kp]. It seems to be a weird webapp that doesn't allow direct linking, but you can find it if you click on "English" at the top, then scroll down a bit to "DPRK Foreign Ministry Rejects U.S. Accusation against Pyongyang over Cyber Attack". Or just look here:
I didn't think NK was behind this. (Score:2)
But now that they denied involvement, I suspect they may be.
Re: (Score:2)
Probably because Sony E is one of the largest Hollywood producers with worldwide reach still in existence?
I have a dream... (Score:2)
I dream of a world in which Sony, on the sly, seeds a few torrents of the movie. Holy plausible deniability!
It'll never happen, of course...
Re: (Score:2)
IANAL, but if the copyright holder (assuming that would be Sony here) distributes something, why would it give anyone else legal rights to do so as well? Unless you meant something different (or maybe YAAL)?
Maybe more Linux & less Windows? (Score:2)
Seriously. The FBI said that, '90% of US companies would have been hit by this attack'. SONY got hit by a Zero-Day Windows bug, right? Don't about 90% of US companies rely on things like Windows Server, SMB shares, Active Directory, etc.? Besides the security that Linux offers, reduced vectors and all that, rogue nation-states would have to re-focus on new attack vectors, which will consume a few of their resources and take some time. Seriously Fortune 500's, etc., take security seriously, like proper risk
Re: (Score:2)
Because if truth be told, and politicians were made to wear their sponsors logos on their sleeves, there'd be no room left for their bought service medals.
You read it here, even though it's old news: the Government - any Government - is of the people and by the people, all right, but for the people? Only if you can afford them.
Re: (Score:2)
America has the best government money can buy.
Translation: (Score:5, Insightful)
DPRK (Score:2)
U.S. stands by its assertion (Score:4, Informative)
Here's an update: North Korea denies hacking Sony, U.S. stands by its assertion [reuters.com]
The FBI said technical analysis of malicious software used in the Sony attack found links to malware that "North Korean actors" had developed and found a "significant overlap" with "other malicious cyber activity" previously tied to Pyongyang. But it otherwise gave scant details on how it concluded that North Korea was behind the attack.
Think of the children! (Score:2, Insightful)
If you're not with us, you're against us! ...And every other guilt-slap trope in existence.
If you don't agree with me, you're a terrorist!
If you ignore this message then you're a supporter of child abuse! Copy this message to every forum you've ever heard of!
Tell ya what, stick them up your arse and come back to me with credible evidence instead of the aforementioned bullshit.
Oh rearery? (Score:2)
NK either did it themselves or paid someone to do it.
That said, reprisals are a terrible idea. Totally not worth it. Nothing to be gained by attacking them in any way. All it does is agitate the Chinese.
And while some of you will doubtless respond "Yeee haw! Lets go get those China men!"... that is not a fight you are prepared for and really no one is behind you on that one. So... stop it.
This is the response to the issue. Tell Sony everything they did wrong with their internal security and tell them that i
Re: (Score:2)
>That said, reprisals are a terrible idea.
Who needs reprisals? They're stuck in North Korea. What could be worse? The Dear Leader is a bat-shit crazy reincarnation of Stalin. Half the country is starving to death. Even if your are relatively well off, you could be taken out and shot any minute, and every known relative of yours hauled off to a camp for generations.
We should send an independent UN inspector (Score:2)
Like Hans Blix!
Re: (Score:3)
o.0 didn't NK threaten terrible consequences after the last time he was unleashed?
And that's Hans Brix, you plick. :)
Hackers for hire? (Score:2)
Why is everybody assuming that if NK was responsible they did it with north korean hackers? Couldn't have they hired russian hackers, for instance? The NK government just has to provide a money filled suitcase delivered through a third party and they have perfect deniability.
Re: (Score:2)
not with a per-capita GDP of less than two thousand Dollars, they're not.
It's an inside job ... (Score:2)
... that's the best guess at this point.
If the FBI actually had proof, they'd share that evidence with infosec so the rest of us could look at the method and double-check our practices.
Where's the ransom demands? (Score:2)
Does nobody remember the first few news stories that mentioned a ransom demand? I swear I read that - then the story changed to Korea + Guardians of Peace out of nowhere.
Korea's dialog and posturing almost entirely internalized. Their glorious leader is a big fan of Hollywood, has never before acted on a threat against the USA, and has put up with other movies without so much as a whimper. The threats and posturing with NK come before the action, not that we have ever seen much real action from them. Not th
Nothing is as it seems. (Score:2)
Anybody remember this:
The Pirate Bay 'Moves' to North Korea (Updated) [torrentfreak.com]
The Pirate Bay admits to North Korean hosting hoax [pcworld.com]
So before you make any accusations, you better be very very sure. Otherwise you risk another Iraq/Afghanistan/etc. disaster.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
uh, well that's easy, the aliens are the good guys, the predators are trophy hunters.
Think about it for a minute: the Queen is chained up, the facility is built for one single purpose: to breed xenomorphs to be used in coming-of-age rituals, and the weapons that are stored there next to the trophy walls are designed for a specific quarry: big ugly bugs with acid blood.
Re: (Score:2)
The alien is about as malicious as an angry mother bear. Sure, she'll fuck your shit up - but all she's trying to do is raise her cubs.
Humans and Predators are the real enemy.
Re: (Score:2)
Are you high? NK "take us out"? Where are you, South Korea?
Care to give us an idea how you think NK could "take us out"? I need a good laugh.