LulzSec Calls For PayPal Boycott, Spokesman Arrested 425
An anonymous reader writes "British police have arrested a 19-year-old man believed to be 'Topiary', the official spokesperson of the LulzSec hactivist group. The man was arrested at his home in the Shetland Islands earlier today (July 27), and is being transported to a central London police station." Also today, LulzSec has called for a boycott of PayPal saying “We encourage anyone using PayPal to immediately close their accounts and consider an alternative.”
In other news... (Score:5, Funny)
Paypal has passed account closure information onto authorities for use in narrowing down Lulz members and supporters.
What alternative? (Score:3, Informative)
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I don't honestly care about anyone's perceived unforgivable injustices from a private, opt-in, and largely free to use company.
So it's perfectly OK for CmdrTaco to come round your house and kick you in the nuts? You *did* sign up to his private, opt-in, and largely free to use website after all~
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I kinda wish that the punishment for using barely applicable analogies filled with hyperbole in the service of bolstering a weak point was a swift kick in the nuts.
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He could come around my place but he would be bringing a BOOT to a GUN Fight. I'd bet my bullets trump his boot any day.
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Guns are only useful if you're prepared for an attacker, or see him coming from a distance. If the attacker gets within arm's length before you realize they're going to harm you, then it's too late to use a gun on them. If someone's planning to kick you in the nuts, it's probably safe to assume they're going to try to be a little stealth about it, instead of yelling at you from a distance, "here I am! I'm going to come over there now and kick you in the nuts!" A knife, however, is a good weapon in that
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So it's perfectly OK for CmdrTaco to come round your house and kick you in the nuts?
"OK"? Why the hell do you think I STARTED using slashdot?!?
Re:What alternative? (Score:5, Funny)
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Interesting. Virtual money you say? If I were rich with bitcoins instead of money, would this be the loophole necessary to allow me into heaven?
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I am still waiting for someone to explain how something can be a ponzi scheme when its NOT sold as a money making investment scheme but literally as a trading commodity. At no point, in any of the bitcoin litterature, is it suggested that one can expect to keep buying more bitcoin and just make more and more money. People who get that idea are usually looking at mining and mistaking a technical explanation for a description of what they should do.
The whole point of a ponzi scheme is it encourages people to
You seem to misunderstand what a ponzi scheme is (Score:4, Insightful)
You seem to misunderstand what a Ponzi scheme is.
Not all Ponzi schemes are up front about, basically, "pay us X dollars and we'll give you X * 110% from the next suckers." They often pretend to be legitimate investment or trading ventures. Among other things because most people get wise to up-front promises of infinitely sustainable giving guy A the money from B and C, after one or two collapse. You only get a very narrow window of opportunity to pull one off on new suckers, such as the ones that swept Eastern Europe after the collapse of communism, then people learned to avoid anything that up-front says it's a Ponzi scheme. You have to disguise it as a legitimate business investment or some legitimate service or whatever.
But, really, look at historical examples.
E.g., the Ivar Kreuger scheme didn't promise to be an up-front Ponzi Scheme at all. Kreuger owned a very profitable matches production and had a monopoly on it, owned banks, etc. By the time of his fall, he was at the head of more than 200 very profitable (or rather over-hyped as incredibly, fantastically profitable, although Kreuger was running deeper into debt) companies. On the surface lending some money to Kreuger was kinda like lending money to Microsoft. There was no way a multi-billion corporation would default on a few million they owed you with interest, right? The problem is that the whole debt added up to vastly more than actually those factories were worth, and in fact his reputation of paying back such debts and with good interest was really a Ponzi scheme where the money came from the next suckers lending him a few millions.
Other schemes gave certificates of value, shares, or a contract to get a house built for much less than the normal cost. (Which during the bubble used to be quite a lot.) Most of them are, at face value, things you can trade and which have a very visible value. E.g., you sure can trade value certificates or shares around, and there's nothing to keep you from selling a contract for a house to someone else. You can even check the current price for a house with that many rooms, and all.
Using a variable, market-driven value instead of promising some exorbitant return per week is also not that uncommon. See those house contracts for example. Sure, the lamest Ponzi schemes for idiots do promise fixed, too-good-to-be-true returns, but the more sophisticated ones avoid such blatant give-aways.
The real characteristic of a Ponzi scheme is basically that it's fiat currency without anyone actually guaranteeing its worth. Behind those Kreuger IOUs, or bonds, or value papers, or house contracts, or bit coins, there is no real tangible product or shares in some real company or anything of real value. You can get any money out of a Madoff investment only as long as someone else is willing to buy more investments, because Madoff didn't actually buy any shares or anything of actual value. The only return is basically robbing Peter to pay Paul. For a Paul to get some money out of Madoff, some Peter must be convinced to pay some money for whatever tokens or papers Madoff gives for those money.
And I honestly don't see why bit coins wouldn't qualify as such.
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Until they decide to freeze your account for a few months because some joker on eBay lodged a totally fake complaint. At that point you may not like them so much anymore.
Paypal's service is pretty terrible whenever there's any kind of problem. You're really just counting on getting lucky that you're not one of the people who does.
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How will account closure hurt me in any way? I do not maintain a balance there. All I'd need to do is open another PayPal account and everything will be fine again. I suppose it matters if you're a high-volume seller, but for people just using it to buy stuff poor PayPal customer service is not an issue.
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Oh, wow. I -just- had this same problem, to the letter. I got my transaction suspended, it wouldn't confirm my "landline" (Google Voice) (I entered the correct number -twice-), and I never got the letter they were supposed to mail me, so I sent my photo ID. I would love to get rid of my PayPal account.. but I need to be able to send money to people and services that only take PayPal, unfortunately.
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Sorry, but I'm actually on paypal's side on this one.
I _hate_ companies who have great security at the login (secure password, security key) but then can be bypassed by social engineering someone and getting your password reset.
Resetting your password _should_ be an ordeal. You should have to jump through hoops.. prove your identity... and at the end of it, personal info (like bank account info) should be reset and need to be re-entered (or at least re-validated).
It's this "screw security, I want my account
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"We encourage anyone using PayPal to immediately close their accounts and consider an alternative."
Coming from these guys, this doesn't sound as much like a boycott as it sounds like they've found some laundry they're about to air.
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I heard of MoneyBookers (go prepurchase Minecraft and you'll see them), but they too banned payments to wikileaks :( . This was on August and they are, IIRC, still in that position. Shameful.
Re:What alternative? (Score:5, Informative)
If Google can't seem to come up with a decent Paypal alternative there's no way in hell anyone else will. Paypal's been around 10+ years and they're linked to eBay, it would take a miracle for a reputable alternative to spring up and become dominate because the alternative would have to convince millions of businesses and customers who are accustomed to Paypal to switch. Also it's important to note that Paypal has never been hacked in 10+ years which is very important for a company that stories credit card and bank account info.
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I guess I can see that. Personally.... I started boycotting them the moment that they stopped taking wikileaks donations. I don't care what service they provide, or how much more convenient it makes things. I actually had a vendor who only wanted to do paypal or a direct deposit from the bank. I actually setup the direct deposit rather than cross the virtual picket line.
Its gone on too long for me now, no forgiveness, even if they change their tune...its too late for them in my eyes.
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Google Checkout.
Easy to setup.
Low fees.
You can send invoices via e-mail (or have them automatically generated).
They also don't pretend to be a bank. You can't keep a balance, they shuffle it off into your bank account one a month.
And unlike PayPal, they're not holding $2k+ of my money ransom.
Gift Credit Cards (Score:2)
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It seems somewhat unwise to not care of other people's experiences with a company you trust with your bank account. And Paypal certainly seems to be involved in a lot of scandals, usually of the "we've d
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I think the other complaint that people (who aren't trying to stick it to the Man) have is that Paypal almost always sides with the purchaser. But that's no different than any other merchant account. It's easy for people to do chargebacks and screw a merchant. It's one of the risks you take when you accept credit cards.
do alternatives exist? (Score:3)
okay, so PayPal shows again its evilness. but though I dislike the quality of the service (I will never use my account to actually store any money) I don't see any competition.
Can anyone advice a payment service with a similar acceptance and convenience?
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check what gambling sites are using. those money services offer prepaid visa's etc to withdraw as well.
Re:do alternatives exist? (Score:5, Informative)
Exactly how did PayPal show its evilness this time? Their website was DDoSed, which is against the law, and they had evidence showing where the attacks originated, which they turned over to authorities. What's evil about that?
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the first sentence was more a fishing for attention...
but I think one part of your statement is arguable; "their website was DDoSed, which is against the law" is at least in Germany not as clear as it seems. Sure, we have laws that can be used against DDoS attacks (mostly 303b "Computersabotage" of the criminal code) but in 2006 a court (on state-level) ruled that a "virtual sit-in" [i.e. DDoS] at lufthansa.de was legitimate (see here [thing.net], not the best source but it was mostly covered in German)
So the right to
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Mod parent up. An alternative to Paypal and MoneyBookers exists!
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next time I will be a little bit more specific: Currently Dwolla is not opening accounts for residents in Germany [dwolla.com]
and as Dwolla is US only [dwolla.com] it is only an alternative for a part of all internet users.
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and not available in Germany...
Shetland islands? (Score:5, Funny)
Christ, with the slowness of BT, I'm amazed they even have internet out there yet.
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As I understand it, a typical broadband connection is an SD card strapped to a sheep. You get great bandwidth, but the latency is really high. And given the absorbency of the wool, you frequently lose packets when crossing the sea to the mainland.
Lulzsec (Score:2)
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quite a lot, actually! being fined to bankruptcy means nothing in a world where you still get housing and pc's cost nothing. of course, did they get topiary or not? and if they did, is being a spokesperson for them illegal? it's not like they're a separatist group that goes around blowing mayors up.
they did tweet this though for those guys saying that they didn't give an alternative to paypal...
"LulzSec The Lulz Boat
Get yourself a slice of MyBitCoin, Liberty Reserve, WebMoney, Neteller, Moneybookers, and st
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They're not going to charge him with "being a spokesperson", same as they didn't charge Cleary with "running an IRC server". If they find evidence that he actively took part in (or even facilitated) any attacks on a company, they'll charge him under the Misuse of Computers Act.
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Got a link to this Misuse of Computers Act? I swear everyone on Twitter, Facebook, and at least half of everyone who has my email address should be charged with that...
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Really? Bitcoin?
Yuck.
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To young to be a "Man", Old enough to be a Soldier.
Paypal has no rivals (Score:5, Insightful)
How easy is it to say "and consider an alternative" without even giving one?
One of the problems with paypal is that it has no rival at all. Even if you do not take into account the fact that paypal is a de-facto standard payment method, there are very few alternatives.
I'm sure lots of people would ditch paypal for lots of reasons. I would. I use google checkout whenever I can, because I particularly have more trust in Google than in paypal, even if checkout is in some ways worse than paypal. But very few people offer checkout support.
I hope this guy knows that (almost) nobody will close their accounts because of his statements, but that this adds more weight on the "trend" that people are more and more dissatisfied with paypal and is seen as something "bad but necessary" and maybe "just good enough" in the eyes of many.
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"MyBitCoin, Liberty Reserve, WebMoney, Neteller, Moneybookers" -- that's what they gave as alternatives. neteller is quite popular for things that paypal doesn't allow, paypal is like the sunday school money of the world.
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"MyBitCoin, Liberty Reserve, WebMoney, Neteller, Moneybookers" -- that's what they gave as alternatives. neteller is quite popular for things that paypal doesn't allow, paypal is like the sunday school money of the world.
You lost me when you said "Bitcoin" and I realized you weren't making a joke.
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PayPal molests people?
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Alertpay is the best alternative I've seen so far. Of course you can't use alertpay at most online shops, but if you're sending money to people you know, it works well.
Re:Paypal has no rivals (Score:5, Informative)
There is at least one rival. It is distributed, unforgeable and cannot be inflated by fiat. This digital commodity is called bitcoin. And it works today. It can replace paypal and credit cards in much of the commerce that occurs online.
Correction: It *could* replace paypal and credit cards. In much the same way that taping wooden nickles to a fleet of carrier pigeons after winning an ebay bid could also replace paypal. Oh sure, it's technically feasible, but nobody accepts it. And what is the value of currency that nobody accepts? That's right, zero.
So it's not so much a 'rival' as it is a 'possible alternative that might some day be useful if the stars align and it takes off.'
People Still Use PayPal? (Score:2, Flamebait)
It's been extremely obvious, for at least five years now, that PayPal is not a place to keep your money.
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All of that said, I use Square (squareup.com)
Either WebNinjas or the British police are wrong (Score:3)
http://lulzsecexposed.blogspot.com/2011/06/topiary-doxed.html [blogspot.com]
Of course, neither or both of the Swede and the Shetlander could be involved.
Link to actual message (Score:2)
Now I feel even better about that H.I.B. (Score:2)
Now that LulzSec is calling for a PayPal boycott I feel even better about throwing some money at the "humble" indie bundle last night (for as much press as they get they should drop the humble) through PayPal.
Its possible to close a paypal account? (Score:3, Interesting)
Its possible to close a paypal account? If you thought it was hard to delete your facebook acct, try paypal for a real challenge.
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Well, it's all for the lulz so it's ok (Score:2)
Police are doing it for the lulz too
Great fun being had by all
Encouraging or Encouraging *wink wink* (Score:3)
Shetland Islands (Score:3)
Nothing against the Islands but that is probably one of the LAST places I'd look for him.
I'm reminded of a saying... (Score:3, Interesting)
"You may stop this individual, but you can't stop us all... after all, we're all alike."
The police, of course and for the benefit of society is more like Pokemon, "Gotta catch 'em all!"
Imagine this for a second. 6 people are able to do massive hacks around the world. Remove one or all of them, and expecting at least 6 more to pop up in a world population of 7 billion is quite nearly inevitable.
But this is different than terrorism. In terrorism, you have to have access to money, IDs, explosive equipment, and be willing to die for your crazy cause. All a hacker needs is a PC, a net connection, and time.
I'm convinced that police could theoretically arrest every single terrorist that does or could exist (that isn't blowing themselves up before arrest) given enough time. But I don't believe they'd catch every hacker even if they worked the entire age of the universe given current technology and trends. And one day, someone is going to pull off the mother of all hacks that will have devastating consequences... but...
It won't be a lone wolf. As many hackers as may exist in the wild, far more work for governments. Why? Not on principle, but because what could be better for a hacker than to hack all day, being paid, and having complete immunity for your actions. No, you can't go bragging on Twitter. But I doubt the hackers that took the Iranian centrifuges cared about bragging, because the entire world saw their work already.
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The police don't need to catch all the hackers. They just need to catch enough that the script kiddies in Anonymous look around nervously, see their buddies disappearing, and decide to stick to legal ways to pass the time. A few people will still become hackers, but their smaller numbers will make them less of a threat.
All crime works this way. The criminal justice system has two goals -- reintegrate offenders into society, and visibly punish them so that other people are less likely to become offenders.
who needs to learn what? (Score:2)
Doesn't really matter where you stand on this one.
I can't begin to tell you how much I hate PayPal (Score:2)
No Such Thing as "British Police" (Score:3)
all have their own jurisdictions and there is NO SUCH THING AS THE BRITISH POLICE
never has been and never will be.....
Superset of "Scottish police" and "English police" (Score:3)
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Why not? We talk about American cops all the time (and usually not in a flattering manner). Both most of the time, the cops involved aren't even staties -- they're the local cops from whatever town. But they're still American.
How did they find him? (Score:5, Insightful)
If you don't know how to make yourself untraceable, don't do things that will bring the cops to your door.
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With court orders and sufficient effort, it is possible to backtrace that to a location. Plausible deniability does not attach because of the ubiquitous security cameras that can narrow down the people using the wifi network for the period of the attack to a very small number.
You need to work much harder than that to achieve full anonymity because of the extensive monitoring of the physical world. Did you take the subway to that open wifi? Even if you paid in cash for a one-time-use transit card, your fa
RTFA (Score:2)
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I'm not familiar with UK laws, what exactly did their spokesperson do that was illegal. I know "free speech" isn't as much a thing there, but how does saying things on the behalf of a group make you criminal?
From TFA, he was launching "denial-of-service attacks against a number of high profile websites including The Sun, the CIA, SOCA, and the US Senate." TFA also mentions a Computer Misuse Act.
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He wasn't arrested because he "happens" to be the spokesman; he was arrested because he was also taking part in the attacks.
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Log in to your account at www.paypal.co.uk
Click 'Profile' at the top of the page.
Click the 'Close Account' link located under 'Account Information' and follow the instructions. (Don’t see this step? Follow the instructions below.)
Or
Log into your PayPal account at www.paypal.co.uk
Click 'Profile' near the top
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I would boycott them because paypal sucks. They're one of the dirtiest business out there. They make other banks look saintly.
Re:Umm. No credibility (Score:5, Funny)
I would boycott them because paypal sucks. They're one of the dirtiest business out there. They make other banks look saintly.
Paypal sucks, I've been boycotting them for some time. Lulzsec also sucks. I might open a paypal account after seeing this.
Re:Umm. No credibility (Score:4, Insightful)
Boycotting Paypal would be nice, but for a lot of people, it's impossible. Would you tell people to boycott the banks by closing their accounts and keeping all their money in cash under their mattress? That's basically what you're saying when you advise people to boycott Paypal, because like it or not, it's basically a monopoly in many online-payment venues. It's not that others haven't tried; Citibank tried something called C2it, but that was a flop and they shut it down. There's also Google Payments, which no one uses.
Unfortunately, if you use Ebay, or you have a small website selling stuff, Paypal is pretty much the only game in town for handling online payments. It's easy to set up, there's no monthly fees, and the per-transaction fees are the lowest out there for small quantities. Sure, if you have an online store selling $500,000 per month in merchandise, you can get a merchant account and pay lower fees than PP and the monthly fees won't really matter, but if you're selling only $1000/month (basically a hobby business) or selling your junk on Ebay, it's absolutely stupid to get a merchant account as the fees are so high.
Or what if you want to solicit donations for some cause, whether it's an open-source project or an animal rescue or whatever? With Paypal, it's easy and free: stick some "Donate" buttons on your website, and you only pay fees of 2.9% + $0.30 if someone donates, and if everyone thinks your cause sucks and never donates, you pay nothing. That's not so easy to do with merchant accounts.
That said, my biggest gripe about Paypal is their website: it's ridiculously slow, and you can't print reports. For instance, if you want to generate a PDF showing all the activity for the last 6 months or year, you can't. You just have to manually step through the transaction history, page by page, and print-screen for each page. There is a place on the website to go to generate reports in PDF, and if you go there and tell it to generate a PDF, it just hangs, because their site is soooooo slow, and eventually your web browser times out.
Re:Umm. No credibility (Score:4, Interesting)
Last night I explicitly chose not to buy something online because the vendor only accepted PayPal payments.
He lost a $425 sale, I lost the chance to buy an item I wanted. PayPal lost credibility with the vendor; they had none with me from the outset.
I agree that they're in a largely monopoly position. I hate that but it doesn't make me play with them. Fuck 'em, and their obnoxious anti-consumerist scams.
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Ok, how else do you expect that vendor to accept payment? As far as I can see, the vendor has two other options:
1) merchant account. These cost big money and favor big merchants. If that's what you demand, then you shouldn't even be looking at small merchants, you should be only going to Amazon and the like for your purchases. Do you hate small merchants?
2) money order. Did you bother to ask the merchant if he accepts these?
FYI, I run a small hobby business, and I only have Paypal buttons on my site.
Re:Umm. No credibility (Score:4, Informative)
A merchant account has more than just a % cost.
There are:
Monthly access fees
Monthly PCIDSS fees
Monthly interchange access fees (per card network)
Monthly interchange volume fees (per card network)
Per transaction cost fixed
Per batch cost fixed
Per transaction cost % (discount rates)
Per transaction cost % (qualified/non-qualified)
And that is just what is listed on the summary page on my statement in front of me. We move enough volume that this is cheaper - but personally i am happy with Paypal for accepting CC's on my own as i don't have to deal with the head aches listed above.. and to be fair.. while for work it is cheaper and even 1% can be thousands of dollars. personally that is cents and random and rare.. it just doesn't make any sense to maintain a merchant account if you are non consistent low volume.
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Boycotting Paypal would be nice, but for a lot of people, it's impossible. Would you tell people to boycott the banks by closing their accounts and keeping all their money in cash under their mattress? That's basically what you're saying when you advise people to boycott Paypal, because like it or not, it's basically a monopoly in many online-payment venues.
Uhm, really? A trivial Google search implies otherwise:
http://blog.webdistortion.com/2010/07/28/paypal-alternatives-e-commerce/
http://www.screw-paypal.com/alternatives/top_pick.html
Also fascinating, from an in-person-sales perspective:
https://squareup.com/
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I've been boycotting them for a long time. Problem is, they think I have an account as a seller on e-bay, and won't stop sending me emails related to that account (including banking information.) Try calling PayPal on the phone some time, when you want something actually accomplished. The fact that there are websites devoted to posting the constantly-changing unlisted numbers for PayPal ought to be a clue that it won't be simple.
Or better yet, the only way to send in a complaint is to login to your PayP
Re:Umm. No credibility (Score:5, Insightful)
What do you expect from British law enforcement? These are the guys who took bribes from News Corp. "Barely coherent, strongly infantile" and "ideological" is how they roll.
Rupert Murdoch gets to enjoy his billions but a 19 year-old hacker is public enemy number 1. The Prime Minister is playing footsie with a News Corp hatchet man, but it's "LulzSec" that's the big threat.
Yes, I would say that the British government, and the FBI, are being "barely coherent, strongly infantile and completely ideological"
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What do you expect from British law enforcement?
I don't know, maybe the creation of some false flag organization called "LulzSec"? That allows them to go around arresting people claiming they are "part of it", when, in fact, it's some government lackeys running the whole thing?
Come on, people! Hal Turner? You know they do this stuff! Look at this post from their Twitter page:
What 19-year-old would even know that song from the 1970's? Or anybody under 40? Much less use it as a reference.
Govern
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oh come on. i saw that "What 19-year-old would even know that song from the 1970's? Or anybody under 40? Much less use it as a reference" stuff before, too. i'm under 40 and i know it well. i know of three versions (and i know that there are more out there): the original, which i heard growing up because, like, you know, my parents would listen to it?; the execrable westlife version from about 8 years ago which a british 11 year old would definitely have heard; and a me first and the gimme gimmes version fr
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When I was 19, my favorite music was Delta Blues made 30 years before I was born.
It's easier to pressure some low-rent ISP than to close down an anonymous twitter account.
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So I should Boycott a legit company, because that company is getting help from the FBI to arrest people who has wronged them. The people who wronged them was because because they didn't like because of ending service to an organization that was priding themselves on releasing illegally obtained secret information, which was in conflict of the companies contract, and failure to do so would have the company legally responsible to part of the crime.
I wish I liked PayPal more, if I did I would try to put more
Re:Umm. No credibility (Score:4, Funny)
Wait, your saying Paypals lawyers use the most popular and common legal database in the world? And not only that but their network gear has logs? Holy shit, with that kind of power they're practically unstoppable.
Re:Umm. No credibility (Score:4, Funny)
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Moneybookers
Moneybookers are a bunch of thieves as much as Paypal. Only reason there's less stories about them is that they are much less used, but here's mine. I used it to receive money (same at Paypal). At some point, they decided I have received a lot of money (around 1000 EUR I think) over the past months, and that I had to send them proof of ID. They wanted a color photocopy of my Spanish passport, sent to a random address in the UK. Until I did so, I wouldn't be able to get my money which they just decided to ho
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Are you sure that wasn't something that they were required to do by industry regulators? There's typically caps and limitations in place to prevent individuals from laundering money. Sounds to me like you hit a limit.
Re:Alternative? (Score:4, Insightful)
You are complaining that they are "stealing" your money even though you haven't given them proof of who you are.
If they want proof of ID, then they should ask for it up front - not when they have money and I have no option. Of course they won't return the money to the sender either.
Unlike PayPal, who you would also be sending your ID to, at a random address, Moneybookers is regulated.
Show me the regulation that says that they get to keep any money?
Your money is sitting in that account because you are a retard, not because they are thieves.
They are thieves. They won't give me my money and they won't give it to the person that sent it. And they demand that I send them a photocopy of a document that can be used to open bank accounts (real ones), apply to loans, and lot of other things. If you think I'm being a retard for not sending them that document, then will, go fuck yourself and send them yours.
Re:Alternative? (Score:4, Interesting)
You are complaining that they are "stealing" your money even though you haven't given them proof of who you are.
If they want proof of ID, then they should ask for it up front - not when they have money and I have no option. Of course they won't return the money to the sender either.
http://www.moneybookers.com/app/help.pl?s=laundering [moneybookers.com]
Do you read things before you sign up? And why should they ask for ID before legally required too, you want them to go beyond what the law requires?
Unlike PayPal, who you would also be sending your ID to, at a random address, Moneybookers is regulated.
Show me the regulation that says that they get to keep any money?
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:32006R1781:en:NOT [europa.eu]
Your money is sitting in that account because you are a retard, not because they are thieves.
They are thieves. They won't give me my money and they won't give it to the person that sent it. And they demand that I send them a photocopy of a document that can be used to open bank accounts (real ones), apply to loans, and lot of other things. If you think I'm being a retard for not sending them that document, then will, go fuck yourself and send them yours.
They can't give you your money because doing so without documenting your identity is against the law. They can't give it to the person who sent it because that would also be against the law if they don't have your ID on record. They aren't thieves because they haven't kept the money for themselves, it is sitting there waiting for someone to provide the identification the law requires in order to transfer it.
And yes that ID is just what you would need to open a bank account. Which is obvious, since the bank wants the same ID for the exact same reason - the same laws apply to them.
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Do you read things before you sign up? And why should they ask for ID before legally required too, you want them to go beyond what the law requires?
Have you read the very same link you sent? Where does it say that while my ID is verified I won't be able to have access to my money? According to that very page, the UK law doesn't require that they limit access to my money.
Show me the regulation that says that they get to keep any money?
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:32006R1781:en:NOT [europa.eu]
Where, please? Because I read it and can't find it. In fact, that document says that it's the information of the payer, not the payee, that should be available - and if it isn't, it can either be requested or
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