Stuxnet Worm May Have Targeted Iranian Reactor 322
yuna49 writes "Analysis of the Stuxnet worm suggests its target might have been Iran's nuclear program. "Last week Ralph Langner, a well-respected expert on industrial systems security, published an analysis of the Stuxnet worm, which targets Siemens software systems, and suggested that it may have been used to sabotage Iran's Bushehr nuclear reactor. A Siemens expert, Langner simulated a Siemens industrial network and then analyzed the worm's attack. Experts had first thought that Stuxnet was written to steal industrial secrets, but Langner found something quite different. The worm actually looks for very specific Siemens settings — a kind of fingerprint that tells it that it has been installed on a very specific Programmable Logic Controller (PLC) device — and then it injects its own code into that system."
So....the CIA wrote it? (Score:3, Interesting)
Sounds eerily similar to the Siberian Pipeline explosion [wikipedia.org] but, had it actually worked, the consequences could have been much much worse.
Re:So....the CIA wrote it? (Score:5, Insightful)
Nope, Israel.
The Saudis, UAE or Qatar have strong interests in Iran not going nuclear, but military computer science stuff is going to be Israel, Russia, China or the US, my money is on Israel in this one.
Re:So....the CIA wrote it? (Score:5, Insightful)
Definitely. Using more conventional power generation technologies, they are a target for aerial bombing. If a nuclear power plant were to be bombed, any sort of disaster might occur making the bomber look extremely evil. (The only way they could hope to get away with it is to make the bombing look as if it came from Iran itself.) In any case, enemies would be less inclined to attack a nuclear power plant as opposed to conventional ones.
As to who is responsible for the targeted malware? I can't imagine.
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Cooling systems, for instance, tend to be big, and more or less have to be either aboveground(for massive air exchange) or next to a nice cool body of water. And, since they are cooling systems, hiding their IR output is going to be a trick. If you lose your cooling system, you hav
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In the case of a nuclear weapons program, you want to destroy the facilities to make the weapons, not just knock out power lines.
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Nice to see a virus at least aimed at some bad guys for a change.
Re:So....the CIA wrote it? (Score:4, Insightful)
Yeah, you've got a idealogical lunatic running the country (I think we've heard that joke before) but he'd be gone by now if the mass media didn't think that MJ's funeral was more important than protestors being gunned down by the Iranian goverment.
Right. Because the US being all concerned about politics in Iran will bring about political change in Iran? Doesn't everyone get all antsy when the US takes interest in foreign politics? And isn't Iran among the least likely to take political cues from the US (or the rest of the MJ-living world, for that matter)?
Seriously, wanting to persue peaceful nuclear power isn't an issue. Hell, if they wanted warheads they could just BUY them.
Really now. And who's going to sell them to Iran? Always better to have your own means rather than be dependent on others. The idea that this is all about peaceful application is still very suspect.
Re:So....the CIA wrote it? (Score:4, Informative)
Seriously, wanting to persue peaceful nuclear power isn't an issue.
That's not the real issue here.
Hell, if they wanted warheads they could just BUY them.
Even if they could do so without the transaction somehow gummed up by the CIA, the Mossad, et al, buying nukes on the black market doesn't solve the problem from Iran's point of view. Iran wants to be able to homebrew these things and grow an arsenal. Buying the goods premade is more suited to a terrorist organization; a) bent on destruction of a specific target, and/or blackmail, b) without the resources (land, modern, standing armed forces, especially air & air defense) to build and protect fixed facilities.
Re:So....the CIA wrote it? (Score:5, Funny)
CIA?
Researchers studying the worm all agree that Stuxnet was built by a very sophisticated and capable attacker
doubtful.
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The timing of the natural gas line related explosion in northern California had me wondering if excessive pressure could have triggered it. Very disturbing stuff...
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Bring on the theories!
Homer: Hey Lenny, whatcha got there? ...
Lenny: Um, nothin' Homer.
Carl: Um, it's a Stonecutter's flash drive.
Homer: Really? How do I get one?
Lenny: Gee Homer, I don't know
[Carl hands the flash drive to Homer]
Carl: It's like one of those metaphorical butterflies. You just set it free and see if it comes back to you.
Homer: Really? Thanks Carl!
Carl: You should send it to our friends in Iran. If they send it back you know you were meant to have it.
Homer: That's a great idea!
Re:So....the CIA wrote it? (Score:5, Informative)
What does this say about reactor safety system design?
Nothing, because the entire scenario (adjust parameters...meltdown) is a fiction that exists exclusively inside your head.
The reactor is a Russian PWR that follows contemporary design principles and has parity with western reactors. The ECCS is not subject to the exclusive control of vulnerable PLCs. Safety systems aren't networked together in Ethernet broadcast domains waiting for stuxnet infections. Worst case; control rods can be inserted manually and feedwater/HPCI/LPCI pumps activated manually regardless of the state of any given PLC. The manual controls on these safety systems are deliberately simple for a reason.
Maybe a really clever attack designed to confuse operators into making the wrong decisions (see TMI-2 1979) could produce core damage. This still isn't some containment free RMBK graphite bomb reactor like Chernobyl. Contained PWR designs are more forgiving; they don't contaminate things even when they do melt down.
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That's a very idealistic view. There are several people who would argue that destroying Iran's nuclear capabilities is actually protecting lives, not destroying them. Of course, that all depends on Iranian government intentions. But considering the many discussions held in Iran about destroying Israel, a world without Israel, etc, it's not exactly a stretch to imagine that Iran would use its nuclear capability to attack Israel. It's also not difficult to imagine that Israel would attack Iran's nuclear p
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Iran is not an arabic country. They are actually quite different than the surrounding countries and this is way Ahmadinejad is sticking his neck out as much as he does.
Re:So....the CIA wrote it? (Score:5, Interesting)
Apparently you have never called an Iranian "Arab". Iranians take it personally.
Iranian's don't like being called Arabs; A) They are Persians, B) They feel proud being associated with the Persian empire and the culture they inherited.
In fact, during my miss-fortunate discussion calling an Iranian an Arab, I felt the individual almost felt insulted.
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Iranians don't like to be called Arab because:
1. They aren't arab:
a. they aren't descended from the arabs; they aren't semitic, they are aryans (Iran = Ayran = land of aryans)
b. they don't speak arabic, they speak persian (called farsi in their language) which is an IndoEuropean language closer to English than arabic
c. Most arab muslims are sunnis, Iranians are Shiite
2. Iranians have sought to make themselves distinct from the Islamic Empire
Re:So....the CIA wrote it? (Score:5, Funny)
As an American, I am frightened and angered by suspicious level of knowledge combined with your lack of jingoism. I can only assume that you are on the side of the terrorists. I'm watching you.
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"Persians aren't threatening to destroy Israel, Arabs are."
Persian inaction is consent. If the Persians view remaining as serfs under Arab masters to be a problem, they should revolt and kill all the Arabs.
The solution to being mastered by an ethnic enemy is ethnic cleansing.
Re:So....the CIA wrote it? (Score:5, Informative)
I'm sorry, but your view of Iran seems very skewed and you're being modded as Informative when really you just seem to be voicing your own opinions.
Persia was first conquered by Muslim Arabs in 644.
One thousand, three hundred and sixty-six years ago, yes. I hardly think this comes into play in modern Iranian politics. The idea that there's some sort of insidious infestation of Arabism that has festered in Iran for over a thousand years seems pretty silly. Also, the idea that Iranians were converted to Islam by force has been mostly discredited.
Many Persians refer to the 1979 revolution as the second Arab invasion of Persia.
"Many" is a weasel word. The ones you've been listening to apparently believe that. But this interpretation ignores the fact that the 1979 revolution in Iran was largely a populist political revolt against a brutally oppressive regime backed by the foreign interests (the U.S.). Some people protested the societal changes that came with the new Islamic state, yes. But the vast majority welcomed it.
If Iran was "invaded by Arabs" in 1979 and everything since has been part of some big Arab conspiracy, how do you explain that the majority Muslims in Syria, Iraq, Jordan, Yemen, and Kuwait are Sunni, while Iran is a Shi'a republic?
And if Iran has been "invaded by Arabs" since 1979, how do you explain the events of 1980 when Iran was, oddly enough, invaded by Arabs? Iran fought a bloody war against Iraq for the next eight years.
And when Mahmoud Ahmadinejad talks about improving his countries ties with "Arab nations" and "the Arab world," what's he doing -- putting up a front for appearances' sake? Your comment elsewhere that his mother "is believed to be descended from Muhammad's bloodline" doesn't hold much water.
Likewise your comment that Larijani must secretly be an Arab because he's the son of an Ayatollah doesn't make sense either. You don't have to be an Arab to be a Muslim, and your insistence on conflating the two smacks completely of jingoism, despite what the other responder says.
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The idea that there's some sort of insidious infestation of Arabism that has festered in Iran for over a thousand years seems pretty silly.
I doubt Persians feel the same way. Only 50 years ago Persians had a vibrant arts culture, with music and poetry. The Islamic Revolution put a stop to that. That's hardly ancient history.
"Many" is a weasel word.
What, like "mostly discredited"?
If Iran was "invaded by Arabs" in 1979 and everything since has been part of some big Arab conspiracy, how do you explain that the majority Muslims in Syria, Iraq, Jordan, Yemen, and Kuwait are Sunni, while Iran is a Shi'a republic?
I don't know enough about the region to provide an explanation for why the denominations of Islam are located where they are, but I never claimed conspiracy.
And if Iran has been "invaded by Arabs" since 1979, how do you explain the events of 1980 when Iran was, oddly enough, invaded by Arabs?
I don't see how that requires an explanation. Like you pointed out, Shia Muslims were fighting Sunni Muslims during the Iran-Iraq wa
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Ha. Grudges are held so long in that part of the world it makes the Sicilians look positively forgiving.
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Wouldn't the current president count? His mother is believe to be descended from Muhammad's bloodline. The VP, Mohammad-Reza Rahimi, is from Kurdistan Province. Many Kurds are also Arabs. I believe the Larijani family is also Arabic, descended from an Ayatollah.
Re:So....the CIA wrote it? (Score:5, Interesting)
Yeah, that sounds familiar. Several years ago there was an article in National Geographic about Persia and the current Persians. It was a very interesting read, much of it talked about the ability to lie or deceive, which is a very important trait to have. Since Persians as a people have been conquered or invaded so many times, they have learned that they cannot speak openly about what they believe. They make a big show of being hospitable (and actually are), they smile and talk, but the people interviewed mentioned how this isn't actually what they're like. In private they're different, but in a culture that is constantly being invaded and attacked, they've learned that it is in their interests not to openly talk about what they really believe. No doubt many Persians harbor ill feelings towards Arabs and the religion they brought with them, they still see them as invaders.
Re:So....the CIA wrote it? (Score:4, Interesting)
It seems like you've been drinking too much media Kool Aid without bothering to do your own research or critical thinking. All well thought out analysis points to Iran wanting nuclear weapons as a defensive measure. Despite what you see portrayed on television, the Iranians are a bit smarter than you seem to give them credit for. Nuking Israel would result in the total annihilation of Iran. Even if they manage to get a nuke to Hamas, nuclear forensics are very advanced these days and it would be traced back to Iran.
Re:So....the CIA wrote it? (Score:4, Interesting)
It seems like you've been drinking too much media Kool Aid without bothering to do your own research or critical thinking. All well thought out analysis points to Iran wanting nuclear weapons as a defensive measure. Despite what you see portrayed on television, the Iranians are a bit smarter than you seem to give them credit for. Nuking Israel would result in the total annihilation of Iran. Even if they manage to get a nuke to Hamas, nuclear forensics are very advanced these days and it would be traced back to Iran.
Nuclear weapons, by their very nature are NOT defensive. Land mines are defensive. Bunkers are defensive. Nuclear weapons are a means of attack, thus offensive.
Nuking Israel would result in the total annihilation of Iran.
All part of the big plan. The fifth imam, or whichever number he is, can not return until the "world" is destroyed, much as Jesus will not return until Israel is destroyed. The difference is that Christians are not trying to destroy Israel to hasten the Second Coming.
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Nuking Israel would result in the total annihilation of Iran.
Ahh. And you're assuming that the extremist Arab Muslims want to live long, happy lives here on earth, right? Islam's rewards happen in death, not life. There's nothing for a fundamental Muslim in this world other than armageddon. Why does an Arab care if Persia gets destroyed?
If you were a fundamentalist jihadi fighter, what would you believe your rewards in the afterlife would be if you destroyed the enemy of your religion? Would that be a good thing or a bad thing? How about the way your family and
Re:So....the CIA wrote it? (Score:4, Insightful)
You sound like a fundamentalist Christian wack job who is just as dangerous as the Muslims that you seem to have a problem with. Given that we're close to or past Peak Oil at this point, does it really seem so far fetched that the Iranians want a different energy source? Even if they are building a bomb, they are a long way from having a delivery system. Even if they get a delivery system, they are unlikely to use it for the reasons stated.
Last I checked there are a bunch of Fundamendalist Christians in the United States armed forces. Does that mean that we're about to start the rapture to bring about the second coming of Christ? What makes you think that the the Arabs are any more likely to do so in the Middle East?
You have to realize that what leaders say in public to appease their people, and the actions that they take in private are often times very different.
Get a subscription to Stratfor. Do some research.
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The missile doesn't care if its warhead is nuclear or conventional.
The trigger mechanism sure does.
I don't think they share those same concerns. They don't care about dying as long as they kill the enemy. Preservation of life is not their primary goal, destruction is.
Where do you get your information from? Prime time news? Late night TV? There are a lot of factions in this country who want us to attack Iran. Don't be a tool. Use your head. Iran is the only thing standing in the way of US hedgemony ov
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Our beef is with anyone who gives us a reason to maintain boots on the ground in the most resource rich region on the planet. If you kid yourself into believing anything else you are deluded. Al-Qaeda sucks and all, but more people die every year in motor vehicles than Al-Qaeda has ever killed for as long as they have been around. Yet for some reason we haven't declared war on Ford and Toyota.
I feel bad for the Israelis but they are every bit as off their rockers as the Arabs are. We really should nuke
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Ahh. And you're assuming that the extremist Arab Muslims want to live long, happy lives here on earth, right? Islam's rewards happen in death, not life.
Muslims no more believe in "rewards in death" than do Christians, who also believe in the afterlife. Your bigotry against Islam here does you no service.
Re:So....the CIA wrote it? (Score:4, Insightful)
That last passages describes exactly what jihadi martyrs hope to achieve by dying. On earth they live in a world full of suffering, violence, fear, and humiliation, which all goes away once they die and gets replaced with grace and paradise. Modern Christians do not live in the same hostile environment as Muslims do.
Except, I guess, for the modern Christians who live in the Middle East? What does "the same hostile environment" mean, anyway? Are you implying that every Muslim interprets the Koran the same way you -- a non-Muslim -- have chosen to? There are Muslims living right down the street from me who have absolutely nothing in common with your "jihadi martyrs". I could go over to their place right now and borrow a cup of sugar. Likewise, a good friend's cousins live in Iran right now. They are nice, pretty girls who like skiing.
Or are you implying that whackjob Christian fundamentalists never harmed anyone? Timothy McVeigh said he was at peace with his God, and I'm pretty sure he didn't mean Allah.
But I think we're getting closer to the real foundation of your posts today, which is that A.) that you hate Islam, probably because you're a fundamentalist Christian yourself or close to it; B.) you therefore hate Arabs because you believe all Muslims are Arabs or Arab-controlled; and C.) that these beliefs do, I'm afraid, make you a bigot.
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So some innocent people should die for the sake of crimes that might be commited in the future?
That's the same bullshit excuse used to justify nuking Japan. Most Americans are completely stupid. They claim that nuclear weapons are terrible and should never be used and anyone who uses it is evil, but the minute someone brings up the fact that America is the only country to use it, they suddenly backtrack and claim that it was used to "save lives" based on military estimates.
Re:So....the CIA wrote it? (Score:4, Interesting)
Actually, I have seen some claims that it wasn't even based on military estimates as actual military estimates put the estimated loss of life for a mainland invasion at FAR LESS than the fanciful public numbers. Howard Zinn have a great talk on this called "Three Holy Wars".
Not to mention that the invasion of the mainland wasn't necessary, Japan was pretty much defeated before the first bomb dropped.
I liked Zinns way of asking what if we reverse the question and ask "What if we could end WWII right this moment, today, but to do it, we would have to kill 100,000 American children." Why are japanese ok to kill but, Americans are somehow deserving of life?
I don't buy the whole us vs them meme. For me "them" is anyone who believes that fighting a war ever helped anyone.
-Steve
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I'm inclined to believe that no matter how difficult the language may be to translate, someone speaking on the world stage would be able to enlist enough advisors to craft a speech that avoids massive "lost in translation" pitfalls.
If they were accidental, yes. The trouble is, there are one or two organisations who like to deliberately come up with... interesting translations of his speeches and send them to the press, and the press just laps it up.
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First, the headline here could easily be "We have no evidence the Stuxnet worm may have targeted Iranian reactor." The case for such targeting is entirely circumstantial and not very tight. All they have is event A happened on date 1, event B happened on date 2. They must be related.
Second, human beings on the ground can humbly and quietly get about doing their work without ever engaging in direct violent confrontation, but they can still are building nuclear weapons. There are some things that are dangerou
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Well you quoted the relevant line yourself and I don't see the word nuclear. All I see is "specific plant." However the fact that it looks for specific things in specific devices could mean that it's looking for specific weaknesses that they authors of the worm know about. A specific weakness doesn't mean a specific target.
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I would have to agree. Sadly, certain three-letter organizations have also been known to fire hellcat missiles into busy streets to get one or two specific individuals and to hell with anyone else. Carnage as a method of controlling public opinion is given a very specific name. State-sponsorship of such carnage is a serious offense in the eyes of the World Court (now the ICJ).
Yes, I accept the argument that certain nations have... issues... that make certain technologies inadvisable. It does NOT help that t
Some people don't care how many others they screw (Score:5, Insightful)
There's one non-secular country in the world that is famous for it's disregard for anyone but itself and its fundamentalist religious belief in their own specialness in the eyes of their own god, which they believe justifies their evil actions.
The truth is some evil people will do anything for wealth and power.
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Just one?
What the hell planet do you live on, and how do I get there?
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There's one non-secular country in the world that is famous for it's disregard for anyone but itself and its fundamentalist religious belief in their own specialness in the eyes of their own god, which they believe justifies their evil actions.
Fundamentalist Muslims are not limited to one country.
Intolerance isn't exactly limited to borders drawn on a map...
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Intolerance isn't exactly limited to borders drawn on a map..
No kidding. Intolerance happens to go on the Sunday Morning political shows and compare muslims with Nazis.
--
BMO
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Or perhaps New Zealand.
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Burma has not existed in decades. I think you might be thinking about Myanmar.
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Dude, Israel is not *that* evil. They just like poking the Palestinians with a stick by building settlements.
They just like pissing off the rest of the Middle East by existing.
Smooth (Score:3, Funny)
Brilliant - let's get one up on the Iranians by messing with their nuclear reactor controls! What could possibly go wrong?
If true, this is reckless endangerment, and the people involved - government-backed or lone wolves - should be prosecuted. Just because the Iranian government is full of militaristic and theocratic jerks does not give anyone the right to endanger the lives of any old (or young) person living or working in and around that facility. Indeed, it's the kind of stunt that can only push their ruling class farther into paranoia and fear, the kind tha leads to... nuclear weapons development.
Re:Smooth (Score:4, Informative)
Hence why no one knows where it came from.
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Hence why someone should investigate.
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... and you honestly think that isn't already happening?
I'm going to jump in with the "smarter people than us are already working on it" crowd that usually heckles armchair-$JOBs in scientific articles.
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So, I'm wondering, why is the computer that controls a nuclear reactor hooked up to the internet?
That's just asking for trouble.
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the stuxnet worm is a usb infecting worm...
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Which makes sense. If those guys aren't total retards, the control PC is airgapped from the Internet, it might be on a secure LAN (as secure as they can be with Windows machines on them) but most likely airgapped. So your most probable method of infection is via flash drives.
Now the nuclear facility is going to have guards so you release it somewhere that it will get on an engineer's PC - on their home file server from the sidewalk, send them an email to a site that will do a drive-by download, or ideally y
Re:Smooth (Score:5, Insightful)
Brilliant - let's get one up on the Iranians by messing with their nuclear reactor controls! What could possibly go wrong?
Maybe less than would go wrong if Iran got the bomb?
I don't know how likely that is, but I'm guessing whoever did this probably has a different calculus than I do for weighing the two, like (Iranian civilian deaths)= 0.1(own civilian deaths). So from their perspective, probably not much could go wrong.
World War III (Score:3, Funny)
And Iran is probably going to blame Israel and then the shit hits the fan and it's WWIII. And we're all dead. Seriously, this is the kind of stuff that gives me ulcers.
Re:World War III (Score:5, Informative)
Iran already blames Israel, for pretty much everything including why the crops fail. I mean, christ, they made the 100th anniversary of the original publishing of "the protocols of the elders of zion" (you know, the anti-semitic forged pamphlet) into a national holiday. It's not like things could get any worse.
The only reason that Iran doesn't attack Israel is because they know that Israel has nukes, and the will to use them with very little provocation. Even for those countries who would likely come down on Iran's side in any conflict, how many of them have any military to speak of? How many have nukes? Even one?
Really, it's in Israel's best interest that Iran starts hostilities and the sooner the better, before Iran gets nukes. In many ways it would actually stabilize the region to have Iran beat down somewhat--you know, at least from Israel's perspective.
Also, you should know by now that ulcers come from infection, not stress. Seriously, there was a Nobel Prize and everything.
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Infection is not the only cause of peptic ulcers. Nonsteroidal anti-inflamitory drugs, for instance, are just one example. Further, stress may not directly cause ulcers, but has been found to exacerbate existing conditions that lead to peptic ulcers.
Re:World War III (Score:4, Interesting)
Iran wants to provoke a conflict with Israel. It doesn't want to start one. There is apparently an Islamic sect that believes in their version of Rapture and they believe it will be triggered by Israel's attack on Iran. Iran cannot be the aggressor here - that's the belief at least. Iran will then be saved by the 12th Imam. And that's the Islamic version of Rapture.
"Our revolution's main mission is to pave the way for the reappearance of the 12th Imam, the Mahdi," Ahmadinejad said in the speech to Friday Prayers leaders from across the country.
http://analysis.threatswatch.org/2005/11/understanding-ahmadinejad/
There are a number of crazzy sites that "predict" stuff about him,
http://www.satansrapture.com/hitler2.htm
"Bush said: 'God said to me, attack Afghanistan and attack Iraq.' The mentality of Mr. Bush and Mr. Ahmadinejad is the same here - both think God tells them what to do," says Mr. Mohebian, noting that end-of-time beliefs have similar roots in Christian and Muslim theology."
http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/1221/p01s04-wome.html
Iran will not start hostilities :)
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There is apparently an Islamic sect that believes in their version of Rapture and they believe it will be triggered by Israel's attack on Iran. Iran cannot be the aggressor here - that's the belief at least. Iran will then be saved by the 12th Imam. And that's the Islamic version of Rapture.
So religion is going to keep a country from going to war? That's awfully optimistic. With the right spin, rationalization, and perspective, Iran could do anything and still not be "the aggressor".
"Countrymen, believe me, nuking Israel, Iraq, all of Europe, the US, Canada, Japan, China, Russia, South AND north Korea, Australia, and Israel again was the LAST thing I wanted to do, but I had no choice. You see, God told me to. He said they had ALL already launched nukes at US but these were really slow nuke
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In many ways it would actually stabilize the region to have Iran beat down somewhat--you know, at least from Israel's perspective.
That was the thinking by the Neocons and the far right in Israel when the choice was made to attack Iraq, but it wound up backfiring. Israel felt and probably is much less safe now, since it galvanized the Arab world to cooperate with Israel even less and support "reisistance" groups like Hamas even more (Iraqi politicians like Muqtada Al-Sadr are now supporting them), and swung Iranian public opinion toward throwing out the moderate Khatami and voting for Ahmadinejad (the first time at least), and the expa
crops (Score:2)
Iran already blames Israel, for pretty much everything including why the crops fail.
Brawndo has what plants crave. It's got electrolytes.
Re:World War III (Score:4, Insightful)
Assuming that the Wikipedia article is correct, Israel has had nuclear capabilities (~20 bombs) during the '73 war and did not use it, even though the Arab military success at the beginning of the war was definitely more than "very little provocation".
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Eventually.
According to many sources, at the first stages of the war though, there was panic at the top. So much in fact that the nuclear option was seriously considered. Read about it, fascinating subject.
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I'm hoping the Mutually Assured Destruction clause they taught me throughout social studies holds true in this day and age as it has throughout the past decades.
Worst case scenario though, recent video games and pop culture have taught me how to handle a post apocalyptic world. I mean, if I survive the blasts, I'm sure Book of Eli, The Road, and Fallout 3 have shown me that I can live with radiation.
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It's only a world war if the world gets involved.
If everyone stands back and lets the middle-east glass itself, that's not a world war.
Not saying it wouldn't be a catastrophe, but just sayin' it wouldn't be WWIII.
Unless someone decides to nuke a superpower for some (retarded) reason in the fray.
Oh Noes! (Score:3, Funny)
The worms in the reactor will eat the fuel rods, become radioactive, mutate, and destroy/dominate the world!
* Preemptive defense against the person who will take this post seriously: I realize most mutations have no significant effect, most of the remainder are harmful, and the chances of a slightly beneficial mutation, let alone a highly beneficial mutation is highly negligible. This post is for humor sake only.
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Begun, the Cyber Wars Have. (Score:4, Interesting)
Looks like national cyber security is about to get a much higher priority than copyright protection.
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I didn't know there was a National Cyber Security lobby.
They Can't Be That Stupid... (Score:3, Insightful)
Why in the Hell is Iran connecting their nuclear reactor to the Internet???
Either Iran is unbelievably stupid, or they've got some blindingly incompetent IT people working at that plant. And considering the international attention that plant is getting, you'd imagine that any incompetent operators would have been sent into the desert to look for minefields while wearing clown shoes long ago.
Re:They Can't Be That Stupid... (Score:4, Informative)
Which is why this malware has multiple infection routes, including USB sticks.
Re:They Can't Be That Stupid... (Score:5, Interesting)
One of the most effective ways to penetrate a company is to drop a couple of USB sticks in their parking lot with some "special" autoinstalled software. Someone sees it, picks it up, takes it in side and plugs it in to see what's on it. A few boring things, maybe a naked picture of someone, and a rootkit.
I've worked for a couple of companies which have had security audits performed on them that included hiring outside firms to do "social engineering" penetration tests to see how good the employees are about that sort of thing. It's strange... someone who won't be fooled by "we're from IT and need your password" sweet-talk and who would never open an attachment to an email will happily stuff a flash drive into their computer. The penetration testing firms tell me they almost always get a hit with the USB drive trick. (And, for the record, one of my companies passed the test, 100%. Woot! Let's not talk about the other, though...)
So yeah, physical devices > air-gap.
Where did all the pseudo-/.ers go? (Score:2)
* Regarding title: real
Re:Where did all the pseudo-/.ers go? (Score:5, Insightful)
That's because it does. You just need to be a *little* slyer. (Not much.)
This is one point where it really does matter what the target OS is. If your USB is vfat, then you can't have allow execute set to true. But if you use a properly targeted file system (say ext3), then you can set execution permissions. Or even just make it a tar.gz file, and when it's expanded, it ends up with execute permissions set. So you open a jpeg, and actually execute a script that opens the jpeg while executing something else in the background.
(Allowing tar files so set the execute permission is a big weakness...and a vast convenience. But that should require running a separate script or chmod with root permissions.)
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
Why in the Hell is Iran connecting their nuclear reactor to the Internet???
Where have you been hiding out. There has been uproar in the US over recent months with public awareness of how much of the US infrastructure is connected to the internet. This is not anything new.
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They don't even need an insider. Just drop some USB sticks near where employees live or work. Someone will take the "ground score" USB stick in to work with them, and click on PORNSHOW.EXE or CUTECATS.EXE to see what it is.
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Even if the exploit I'm thinking of has been fixed, I would be surprised if there weren't more lurking about in the USB drivers. They're so big and na
Siemens Patch Release (Score:2)
I'm still having a problem with... (Score:2)
And even with a USB connection have a failsafe ROM backup so if it starts acting strange after the update then smack the "Default" button to bring it back under control.
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The reactor and/or plant is part of a network itself. I doubt it is directly connected to any external network, like the Internet. It might be part of a separate, secure network that monitors multiple plants remotely.
Most likely the infection was brought in manually.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I'm still having a problem with......why ANY nuclear reactor or power plant needs to be directly connected to a computer network. I can see it having say a USB port for upgrades of controller firmware but a network connection? Nope.
So you're saying that you can't see any use for having the two reactors on site both connected to the same control room? I mean, why the hell would people in one central location want to monitor both reactors at once, in real time, right? That's crazy!
What do you think, that when someone needs to shut down or modify the parameters of a reactor or centrifuge that they actually walk up to the component and hit a button on it? What if they need to start 100 centrifuges at the same time, do they have 100 tec
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I'm still having a problem with......why ANY nuclear reactor or power plant needs to be directly connected to a computer network. I can see it having say a USB port for upgrades of controller firmware but a network connection? Nope.
So you're saying that you can't see any use for having the two reactors on site both connected to the same control room? I mean, why the hell would people in one central location want to monitor both reactors at once, in real time, right? That's crazy!
What do you think, that when someone needs to shut down or modify the parameters of a reactor or centrifuge that they actually walk up to the component and hit a button on it? What if they need to start 100 centrifuges at the same time, do they have 100 technicians standing there all on a giant conference call waiting for the "go" signal? If they want to check the current core temps or fuel levels, what do they do, call each one and ask them what the gauge says? What the hell do you think all of this equipment is for:
http://www.upi.com/News_Photos/Features/The-Nuclear-Issue-in-Iran/1581/19/ [upi.com]
What I'm saying is that there should be no "write access" from an outside network.
In fact I'll even go one further. Any computer system that is connected to the control circuitry of the reactor should have no connection whatsoever to ANY standard network. It should be isolated from both the internal desktops AND the outside. AND you shouldn't be able to put in any device like a USB drive or floppy without the reactor being shut down.
In the case of a central monitoring location install a second set of s
speculation anyone? (Score:5, Insightful)
Ugh, what a terrible article. There's no firm conclusions at all, just mindless speculation. Here's some gems: "The only thing I can say is that it is something designed to go bang" and "'If I had to guess what it was, yes that's a logical target' he said, 'but that's just speculation'"
This could be an interesting topic, but unfortunately, it is turned into a pointless article spewing wild guesses. And the findings are to be submitted in a closed door security meeting? WTF? I guess we'll never know.
I have programmed many PLC's in my day, but unfortunately not Siemens. Does anyone have experience with siemens that can comment on the mysterious operational block 35?
Re:speculation anyone? (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
OB35 is a an interrupt function which is periodically called by a timer, generally every 100ms.
If you were to inject malicious code into OB35, it would be periodically executed, assuming that OB35 was loaded onto the controller in the first place.
No idea what this code might be expected to do. Crash the software running on the PLC maybe.
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The mere fact that it's speculative does not make it a terrible article.
Considering the nature of the malware, the apparent difficulty of extracting information from it, and the sensitivity of the information already disclosed, I'd say it's a pretty fine write-up. It tells you what they know and can disclose, tells you there's more they can't disclose, and that there's still mroe that they know they don't know.
I mean seriously, hooray for forthright honesty here. No one is pretending to certainty that they
Intulligents, er Intelegince, er, Intileignets. (Score:3, Informative)
yeah, the writer should have called up the Mossad, and asked to talk to the author so he could get some solid facts...
Really, what do you expect from a story about what is obviously a covert operation?
Taliban... (Score:2)
Rrrriiight. (Score:5, Insightful)
Siemens PLCs are everywhere. Same with GE and others. They run everything from nuke plants to little benchtop lathes and aerospace applications. How this person decided that it *had* to be the Iranian nuke plant baffles me.
How does he know that it wasn't targeted at various military targets? Iranian medium and short range missile installations also come to mind. Does he *have* the Siemens PLC configuration from the nuke plant in his hot little hands? Or does he even have the model numbers?
Reading TFA, no.
Peterson believes that Bushehr was possibly the target. "If I had to guess what it was, yes that's a logical target," he said. "But that's just speculation."
Well, there you go. Nothing to see here.
That's not to say that actual cyber-warfare is not happening, but to come out with wild-ass speculation and present it as newsworthy reminds me of Fox "News" and the rest of the Murdoch "empire."
--
BMO
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They run everything from nuke plants to little benchtop lathes and aerospace applications. How this person decided that it *had* to be the Iranian nuke plant baffles me.
That's exactly what I first thought, that a country would use its resources (you RTFA'd, right?) to attack benchtop lathes around the world. It must be just a coincidence that the infection started in Iran and that 60% of infected computers are in Iran.
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Yes, but *which* specific deployment of Siemens PLCs? Which company? Which government? Which military branch? Which *building*?
There's a whole bunch of speculation but no facts. Until someone can match up even the model numbers with what the software was targeting, there is no "there" there.
And with the way that Iran procures items for its government/military (through ghost companies run by the Revolutionary Guard (read up on this, it's fascinating)) it's highly unlikely that we could ever trace where
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clever, nicely done, damn you (Score:3, Insightful)
this was a high-level inside hack. somebody is going to go missing. where they came from or end up will tell you who really orchestrated this one.
oh, and by the way, note that it was a broadcast inside hack, going all over Iran and elsewhere to get to the prize.
tells you two things. one, Iran has the nuclear stuff very highly compartmented. the originators did not have access to ring 0 of the secret program despite presumably working for the contractor.
two, there should not be any commodity stuff hanging on the side of any sensitive system. the worm got all over because there were Best Buy laptops running open market software.
Bad move, politically (Score:3, Insightful)
The Bushehr reactor is operated under an international agreement, allowing Iran to operate it and generate power, but keeping the fuel under control of Russia. This was negotiated in order to allow Iran the capability to operate power generating facilities but keep the fuel cycle under control, avoiding diversion to weapons development.
If anyone (outside of Iran) gets caught sabotaging the reactor, it supports Iran making the argument that outside powers (under control of the West and/or Israel) can't be trusted. It is in our best interests to see this plant suceed. It will support the idea Iran can deal sucesfully with the IAEA and others in the development of nuclear power facilities and medical uses.
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Re:Windows for Industrial/control use (Score:4, Interesting)
It is the developer's tools available.
The 'mission critical control system' in this case is a PLC, which directly controls the equipment. It doesn't even require that any consumer computer be involved for that to happen, although they often are to provide for data collection or operator interfaces or the like.
But to get the PLC to control the hardware a person has to write logic for it, which was probably done in this case with Simatic S7, which is Windows only. The bulk of the above mentioned interface and data collection packages are Windows only as well.
With a good design an industrial control system, because it is the PLC that does the work, will run along just fine even if PC based nodes crash. The new development with Stuxnet is that the virus is running on the PLC itself.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Doing it wrong, if so (Score:5, Interesting)
What everyone including parent post has so far overlooked is that the announcement of this story is ALL BY ITSELF damaging to the Iran nuclear development effort.
Whatever the goal of Stuxnet might be, Iran must now spend time and effort checking whether all kinds of computer control systems include hidden time bombs... things that might do anything from overspinning centrifuges until they break to overheating core enough to warp the fuel rods and force their replacement. And the only sure way that Iran can proceed from this point is to replace all the PLCs with homegrown technology... but it would take them a decade or more to develop that technology on their own. I don't think they have any microchip manufacturing capability at all.
All this has been accomplished at the very low cost of publicizing a few factoids within a very suggestive framing in such a way that third parties are going to fall all over themselves to do further investigation in ways that can only magnify the perceived risks. This is a perfect con game. The more so because even if someone comes out and says its a con, Iran cannot afford to rely on that. Stuxnet might not even have a payload, but it will still cause the Iran nuclear effort months of delay. Long enough, probably, to lay the groundwork for Son Of Stuxnet, whatever that might be.