5064001
story
Posted
by
samzenpus
on Thursday July 02, @06:57AM
from the data-on-the-horizon dept.
Hugh Pickens writes
"The Salt Lake City Tribune reports that the National Security Agency will be building a one million square foot data center at Utah's Camp Williams. The NSA's heavily automated computerized operations have for years been based at Fort Meade, Maryland, but the agency began looking to decentralize its efforts following the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001 and accelerated their search after the Baltimore Sun reported that the NSA — Baltimore Gas & Electric's biggest customer — had maxed out the local grid and could not bring online several supercomputers it needed to expand its operations. The agency got a taste of the potential for trouble January 24, 2000, when an information overload, rather than a power shortage, caused the NSA's first-ever network crash, taking the agency 3 1/2 days to resume operations. The new data center in Utah will require at least 65 megawatts of power — about the same amount used by every home in Salt Lake City — so a separate power substation will have to be built at Camp Williams to sustain that demand. 'They were looking at secure sites, where there could be a natural nexus between organizations and where space was available,' says Col. Scott Olson, the Utah National Guard's legislative liaison. NSA officials, who have a long-standing relationship with Utah based on the state Guard's unique linguist units, approached state officials about finding land in the state on which to build an additional data center. 'The stars just kind of came into alignment. We could provide them everything they need.'"
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American Money, American Land, American Calls (Score:4, Insightful)
Knowing what NSA does, this Super Data Center would be used to spy, filter and record all the calls redirected it to by AT&T.
So, now we have an American agency, operating within America, and recording American telephone conversations without oversight of law.
And we have the galls to say USSR was a spy country...
Wonders will never cease!
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Nominal Intel servers use about 88W (Score:5, Interesting)
Nominal 8-core Intel servers use about 88 Watts now, not 500W. I performed a "green power review" for a customer this year. Their really old 8-core boxes used around 450W, before we replaced them for new and put 6 old physical servers onto each new physical server running VMs. We weren't even trying to push the minimal server solution and the new servers had 4GB RAM per core, so these aren't VM-specific servers, just normal current tech boxes. Also, we replaced all the internal drives beyond 2 for RAID1 boots with a redundant GigE SAN. Fairly cheap upgrades. Their old power draw was 18kVA and we dropped it to under 4kVA. Anyone want to trade out APC units? I know someone wasting power keeping their batteries charged.
Now, these weren't the big 24-128-way servers from HP, Sun, IBM, and Fujitsu with redundant fibre SAN and fibre networking, so your estimate could be very good. Some of those Cisco optics switches and routers can really pull power, especially if you use the power over ethernet features.
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Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
To give you an idea how much computational power they could have using specilized hardware. Let's compare that to a 9800GTX.
65 megawatts / 140watts * 432gflops = ~200,000 TeraFlops or 200,000,000,000,000,000 Flops. For something like 40 to 80 million$.
Granted the accuracy of this estimate sucks as GTX's don't have networking suppport, and we need to cool things ect. But, they could also use more effecent hardware than the GTX.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
But even that assumes all the IT load will be for servers. Certainly there will be power going to server
Re:American Money, American Land, American Calls (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:American Money, American Land, American Calls (Score:5, Interesting)
Of course this is assuming no one on AT&T makes international calls, or no one internationally calls US AT&T customers, like terrorists contacting a cell that is operating here.
This is probably a small percentage of AT&T's calls... however, if they had any sense the terrorists would get those Go phones that don't require ID to purchase and activate, so yea, it's likely AT&T isn't very interesting to the NSA. But I'm also pretty sure that NSA would never underestimate the stupidity of extremists since you need to be pretty retarded to blow yourself up in the name of a religion that's been twisted to make violence OK.
Truth be told, nobody really knows what NSA does but NSA and possibly the president so anyone here is talking out of their ass because they don't work there. If they did, they won't be much longer ;)
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Re:American Money, American Land, American Calls (Score:4, Informative)
Which is what I said. Your sig is pathetically ironic. Fucking retard.
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Re:American Money, American Land, American Calls (Score:4, Interesting)
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Re: (Score:3, Funny)
So, now we have an American agency, operating within America, and recording American telephone conversations without oversight of law.
And no manpower to do anything useful with it.
Re:American Money, American Land, American Calls (Score:4, Interesting)
Interesting that the NSA picked Utah for these "data centers". There's been a very interesting history of the confluence of the intelligence community, mormonism and the "wandering bishops".
I highly recommend historian Peter Levenda's excellent book on the subject (as well as other fascinating subjects), Sinister Forces - A Grimoire of American Political Witchcraft.
But if you read it, prepare to lose some sleep.
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Re:American Money, American Land, American Calls (Score:4, Informative)
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Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Its amazing to me that even after major legal issues being brought up in the news and by Congress, that even after the president has to pardon phone companies and the like to retroactively avoid further legal issues for domestic spying, people like the anonymous moron above still think it requires a tinfoil hat to believe the American government is spying on perfectly innocent people as part of a huge dragnet scam wasting taxpayer money.
Imagine spending all that domestic spy money on the health care reforms
Re:The U.S. government is corrupt. (Score:5, Insightful)
The U.S. government spends more on surveillance of its citizens than any country in the entire history of the world.
Care to cite that?
The U.S. government has invaded or bombed 25 countries since the end of the 2nd world war, all for profit.
Profit eh? So how much money does the US government earn every time a B1 Bomber drops another bomb? They have to pay for those planes, pilots and bombs, and get no monetary value in return. So where's the profit?
In Iraq, oil and weapons investors like Bush and Cheney wanted control over the oil, and didn't care how many people they killed. In Afghanistan, oil investors want to build an oil pipeline.
Care to explain why this mythical oil pipeline STILL hasn't shown up? It has been what, 8 years now since Moore made up this talking point? Also, if we invaded Iraq for the oil, then why do we not have ANY of the oil?
The U.S. government has a higher percentage of its people in prison than any country ever in the history of the world, over 6 times higher than in Europe, for example. Some U.S. states, such as Oregon, spend more on prisons than on education!
Perhaps there is a higher percentage of criminals in the US than in Europe, or our law enforcement is more efficient, or, gasp, we have a bunch of dumb laws that put dumb people in jail? So what.
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So... (Score:5, Funny)
The secret service builds a datacenter and announces that in mainstream media?
It will be a very large data center.
It will be important.
It will be secret.
And it will be located at Utah's Camp Williams.
That's very amicable to other secret services. Saves them some searching. :D
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Well, maybe the true secret datacenter is built somewhere else. The best way to prevent you from searching for it is when you believe you already know where it is.
Re:So... (Score:5, Funny)
Well yes, obviously it's a decoy. The NSA knows that we would immediately jump to the conclusion that this is a decoy, and start looking elsewhere. In fact, they're counting on it. They want us looking elsewhere so that they can install their top secret datacentre hardware in Utah.
Except... why make it so conspicuously obvious. They make a show about building this datacentre, so we would look elsewhere. We know that they want us to look anywhere but their decoy, so we look at the decoy. While we're busy looking at the decoy, they build elsewhere. Clever.
However, they've got to know that there's enough people to look at both the new datacentre and all the other sites. Something else is going on. They've got scurrying around like ants, looking for this "true" datacentre. We're focused on the ground. We're focused on the NSA. This isn't about NSA datacentres. This is about CIA satellites.
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Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Getting into it surreptitiously will either be:
a) Extraordinarily difficult, or
b) a) + life threatening.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re:So... (Score:5, Funny)
"Surveillance only tells us that they don't store the data on the rooftop"
(ok, it's from a rather lame Simpsons episode, but I'm sure some will get the reference)
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Re:So... (Score:5, Insightful)
It's kindof hard to hide the massive power transmission infrastructure, also. You don't just "hide" a facility that has that much electricity coming from civilian sources going into it.
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Re: (Score:2)
One tip dont use your own car
Re:So... (Score:5, Insightful)
How about some stealth? Paint GOOGLE onto the sides of your cars and be very blatant about taking pics and nobody will think of anything.
It's like breaking into a warehouse. You don't use flashlights and sneak about. You turn on the store lights and walk around like you belong there and nobody will think of anything ill.
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Re:So... (Score:4, Insightful)
Also carry a clipboard. Nobody will question a guy taking notes on a clipboard.
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Re: (Score:2)
The secret service builds a datacenter and announces that in mainstream media?
It can be a ploy to divert public attention from other more important clandestine projects to this decoy.
Re:So... (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
Well, now you know... (Score:3, Funny)
Well, now you know where your can find those emails you accidentally deleted or forgot to backup. Safely in the hands of god, err, the NSA.
Sixty five megawatts (Score:2, Funny)
65 megawatts of power -- about the same amount used by every home in Salt Lake City
Those must be some big houses. I wonder how much they all use in total!
Re: (Score:2)
There's a Mormon joke there somewhere.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
There's a Mormon joke there somewhere.
They have to store a year's supply of extra electricity in their basement.
How's that?
Re:Sixty five megawatts (Score:4, Funny)
A Catholic priest went into a barber shop for a haircut. When he was finished, the barber refused to take payment saying, "You are a man of the cloth... this is a free service that I offer to you." The Priest thanked the barber and went on his way. The next morning the barber found seven fishes and seven loaves of bread on his doorstep in gratitude from the priest.
The next week, a Jewish Rabbi went into the same shop for a cut. Again the barber refused payment saying, "You are a man of God... this is a free service that I offer to you." The next morning the barber found a fitting gift from the Rabbi.
The following week, two LDS Missionaries went into the shop for haircuts. Again, the barber refused payment saying, "You work in the service of God... this is a free service that I offer to you." The next morning the barber arrived to find 12 LDS Missionaries on his doorstep.
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Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Hmm (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
I suppose thats our job as 'informed' citizens though.. to constantly second guess our government.
Yes, it is because 99 times out of 100 there is some sort of bullshit going on that will never see the light of day.
In fact, (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Good idea!
Travelling collections?
I can't believe that the National Parks System hasn't already done this. They're all clustered around the east coast - we really need to get some here in the midwest.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
His point is better than that. The federal government basically runs an enormous jobs program in the Washington D.C. area, an area that is pretty much over developed at this point. Placing operations in other cities would have the effect of improving the economy in those cities and (probably) saving the government money (by lowering overhead costs and such).
Re: (Score:2)
Still, I intersection of the demographics "want to work for the government" and "IT cracks" is already small enough even without intersecting it also with "willing to move to backwater Utah".
Now its the real deal (Score:4, Interesting)
The FBI, US military intelligence, UK, Australia, Canada, NZ where trusted keep tabs on US interests, internal and external.
Now the NSA is turning inward. Everything that was aimed at "the bad guys" "around the world' is now aimed at you in suburbia.
If the FBI wants your name, they ask your ISP.
if the NSA wants your name
Sounds like a new movie brewing... (Score:5, Funny)
Nice work, Senator Hatch. (Score:3, Insightful)
Do I smell some juicy contracts for Novell as well?
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Well that should cement Utah's status... (Score:5, Funny)
Nothing secret here (Score:4, Interesting)
Anything that's a million square feet is not going to be much of a secret.
"What's this building that I'm driving past for 5 minutes on the freeway?"
"Oh, that's just a, uh... big empty warehouse building."
This is all just a distraction from the "real secret", a 2 million square foot datacenter that they're building in lake Superior's salt mines.
US Government Hypocrisy (Score:3, Funny)
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Air conditioning in the summer, heating in the winter. I've only been in SLC in the autumn and spring, but at that time the temperature alternated between being cold enough that water left on my hair after a shower froze a few minutes after going outside, and hot enough that I was too warm even with the air conditioning running. Nice beer, but not a climate I'd like to live in for very long.
On the other hand, the cold winters mean that they can only run the air conditioning in the data centre half the ye
Re:What does NSA do ? Why do we need CIA ? (Score:5, Informative)
First of all, without a security clearance and need-to-know you will never know what the NSA does. And then forget what MSNBC has convinced you is true about the agency; there are very strict rules as to how any "signals" involving US citizens are handled. There is more foreign collection than you could possibly imagine, and that is where they expend most of their power.
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Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Here's a declassified version of the restrictions against collecting on US Persons, for example. This alone debunks 99% of the stupid comments that always pop-up in any NSA related thread. http://cryptome.org/nsa-ussid18.htm [cryptome.org]
Re:What does NSA do ? Why do we need CIA ? (Score:4, Informative)
Are we supposed to believe they do not monitor and listen in any domestic conversations ?
Yes you are. And you should read USSID 18 while you are at it and see for yourself that their are specific restrictions against listening in on domestic conversations. You will also learn that it requires a warrant granted by the Attorney General (not the Director of the NSA, not the President, not a mythical National Security Czar, Not Your Mom).
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