An anonymous reader writes "Despite the introduction of ID cards last November, it has emerged that Britain has no readers that are able to read the cards' microchips, which contain the person's fingerprints and other biometric information. With cops and border guards unable to use the cards to check a person's identity, critics are calling the £4.7bn scheme 'farcical' and a 'waste of time.'"
While I won't go as far as being paranoid about "it was always the governments plan and they just want the data on everyone", it doesn't surprise me that our government isn't even capable of introducing both halves of an ID scheme at the same time.
Until they fix it they've basically just introduced an over-expensive photo ID. Well done, Labour!
While I won't go as far as being paranoid about "it was always the governments plan and they just want the data on everyone", it doesn't surprise me that our government isn't even capable of introducing both halves of an ID scheme at the same time.
I'm even more cynical than that. While the government will probably get some data on people, judging from other such projects that have gone before it will be extremely poorly coordinated and it will be a far bigger security risk than anything else because they won't be able to keep a lid on the data. It just strikes me that a lot of companies have got cosy with the government, promising them things that are almost certainly not going to work in order to fleece them of billions of pounds. Billions of borrowed pounds in the current climate, that is.
I think that it's more a question of whipping up fear in the population and then reap the popularity by appearing to "do something" to keep the population safe (and docile?).
In any case, the fact that the ID cards can't be read, pretty clearly suggests that the "increased safety" argument were a load of horse manure.
You mean job security for the police. If they put the criminal element out of business with an ID program that works, then the government would need fewer police. With a half-ass ID program, both police and the criminal elements can breath easier.
Stop making fun at Belgium and follow in their food steps. The readers are available and the source is open Dutch: http://eid.belgium.be/nl/Achtergrondinfo/De_eID_technisch/ [belgium.be] Main thing is that you see there are Linux drivers for it.
Stop making fun at Belgium and follow in their food steps.
*puts mayonnaise on his fries*
Joking aside, it seems like the Belgians have done this right: You need a code to access the information from the passport, similar to your bank/creditcard. Not perfect, but at least it isn't readable by everyone.
Interestingly, the first year the new ID cards were issued in Belgium, there was also a shortage of readers in police departments. If you had a new ID card, you were required to keep a printout of the data with you in case the police requested your ID:-) (it wasn't that bad though; the only information on the chip that isn't also on the front of the card, is your address)
The police have enough readers now, so it's not necessary anymore.
I'm Dutch and we also put copious amounts of mayo on our fries. And even though "we" are in friendly rivalry with those wacky Belgians (well, the Flemish anyway) I will readily admit that the Belgians have the upper hand on us with regards to fries. And mayo, and certainly beer. Oh, and waffles. And chocolate.
Although I can't imagine how drunk they must have been to invent 'tartarsauce' for on their fries...:-)
Its partly true, part headline grabbing. Some foreigners have been issued with cards, more as a trial than anything else, and readers outside this trial havn't been bought yet.
RTFA: "The first UK ID cards have already been issued - but no UK police officers or border guards have any way of reading the data stored on them.". They are already issuing them to asylum seekers, people freed from Gitmo, etc.
Maybe thats the plan - just say "sorry, just wait over there until we can read your card. You should be allowed into the UK sometime soon".
No, you can get one if you want one, and certain classes of people have to have them - asylum seekers, airport workers, and a few other categories. Perhaps gypsies and jews should be added to the list, *sigh*.
Not just asylum seekers, anyone here on a settlement visa. My wife's got to have a card now, even though she's here fully legitimately and I'm a full-fledged British citizen andsubject of HRH Queen Elizabeth the Second. And students are next in line, which as a PhD researcher means yours truly. If you refuse? Well, you lose your visa or your student status as appropriate. They're targetting those that are least able to object in order to build up an "installed base".
Do you know the funny thing though? My girlfriend is Brazilian, and she resides in the UK through her father having dual Portuguese/Brazilian nationality. By European law, she can't be required to have an ID card (and no-one seems to have asked, either) and unless she goes for UK citizenship, never will. This amuses me especially because both Portugal and Brazil do have mandatory ID cards.
Is anyone really surprised? There are people out there who still don't believe that Dad's Army was an early example of reality TV. Government competence levels have not improved in the ensuing years.
Right now most bookmakers will give you very good odds on the current government actually being in power by the end of 2010. Since the other lot are supposedly going to get rid of the scheme, and there's been no large-scale rollout of the cards to the general population, it probably doesn't make a lot of sense to buy all the readers just now. Not that 'sense' really comes into this, of course.
It's easy, and quite tempting, to react to this news with patronizing contempt - and think, "Well, at least we're fairly safe - such a bunch of bunglers couldn't do any real harm".
Unfortunately, a look back at history reveals that appalling inefficiency and incompetence have usually gone hand-in-hand with authoritarian government. But whereas we can still laugh about it, the time may come when doing so is distinctly unwise. People made fun of Hitler, Stalin, and Mussolini throughout their careers, and some got away with it. Others were arrested, beaten up, imprisoned, tortured, shot, or hanged with piano wire.
They've only just started finalising and using these cards. Why is it surprising that there are no readers around?
It's akin to saying that Blu-Ray or DVDs were a waste of time because initially there were no players for them - Hello, you need to wait for people to catch up, especially if the equipment is expensive (and although they're not consumer products, the same rules apply - places need to wait for grants or work out their budgets before buying or using said machines).
Besides, practically no-one has these cards yet - and I doubt anyone will for a while, especially since they cost cash to get (It was ~£50 last I heard)
Freedom of Information Act 2000
Only exceptions to this in government is the Official secrets act. which means the information comes out in 50 years.
this is better than the US where 90% of it never comes out at all.
The Act [direct.gov.uk]
Exceptions include information other that that covered by the Official Secrets Act.
There are also a whole lot of exemptions, such as data that is commercially sensitive, related to criminal investigations or where disclosure would contravene the Data Protection Act etc. When a request is refused the reason for the exemption must be given to the requester.
In practise the Act has meant a lot of information is now public where it wouldn't have been before.
The government does something no one wants, acting as if it knows best, then fucks the implementation up in ways few thought about making it worthless for the time being. It's like the drunk who swears he is able to drive, refuses to give up his keys, then gets into an accident before he gets out of the parking spot.
No readers? No surprise! (Score:5, Insightful)
While I won't go as far as being paranoid about "it was always the governments plan and they just want the data on everyone", it doesn't surprise me that our government isn't even capable of introducing both halves of an ID scheme at the same time.
Until they fix it they've basically just introduced an over-expensive photo ID. Well done, Labour!
Re:No readers? No surprise! (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm even more cynical than that. While the government will probably get some data on people, judging from other such projects that have gone before it will be extremely poorly coordinated and it will be a far bigger security risk than anything else because they won't be able to keep a lid on the data. It just strikes me that a lot of companies have got cosy with the government, promising them things that are almost certainly not going to work in order to fleece them of billions of pounds. Billions of borrowed pounds in the current climate, that is.
Parent
Re:No readers? No surprise! (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm more convinced by "it was always the government's plan and they just wanted to dole out juicy contracts to the private sector."
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
privacy (Score:5, Funny)
Re:privacy (Score:5, Funny)
except everybody BUT the gov't can read them...
it's funny, but sad-funny.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:privacy (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:privacy (Score:4, Funny)
It's like "plug and play" - that worked 50% too. As in, "plug" always worked, it was just the "play" bit that had problems...
Parent
Look at Belgium (Score:4, Informative)
Stop making fun at Belgium and follow in their food steps. The readers are available and the source is open Dutch: http://eid.belgium.be/nl/Achtergrondinfo/De_eID_technisch/ [belgium.be]
Main thing is that you see there are Linux drivers for it.
Re:Look at Belgium (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:Look at Belgium (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
Re:Look at Belgium (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:Look at Belgium (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:Look at Belgium (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
Re:Look at Belgium (Score:5, Insightful)
*puts mayonnaise on his fries*
Joking aside, it seems like the Belgians have done this right: You need a code to access the information from the passport, similar to your bank/creditcard. Not perfect, but at least it isn't readable by everyone.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
No, not everyone, just the people with the desire to get the code... which won't be hard.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
The police have enough readers now, so it's not necessary anymore.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Although I can't imagine how drunk they must have been to invent 'tartarsauce' for on their fries...
Re:Look at Belgium (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Where exactly are these cards? (Score:3, Informative)
The cards dont exist yet and wont until 2011 or 2012.
Still, dont let truth get in the way of a good rant.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Its partly true, part headline grabbing. Some foreigners have been issued with cards, more as a trial than anything else, and readers outside this trial havn't been bought yet.
Not much of a story really.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Maybe thats the plan - just say "sorry, just wait over there until we can read your card. You should be allowed into the UK sometime soon".
Re:Where exactly are these cards? (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:Where exactly are these cards? (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
HRH Queen Elizabeth the Second?! (Score:5, Informative)
Her Royal Highness? Did Her Majesty abdicate?
Parent
Re:HRH Queen Elizabeth the Second?! (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Where exactly are these cards? (Score:5, Informative)
Actually, the first ID cards were issued last year (2008).
Parent
Dad's Army (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Offtopic? (Score:5, Informative)
It is offtopic. "Dad's Army" was at best tangentially related to the government.
What you want is "Yes, Minister". Down the corridor, third on the left.
Parent
/oblig "fixed that for you" (Score:5, Funny)
I'm sorry, this is abuse. You want "Yes, Minister". Down the corridor, third on the left.
Stupid git.
Parent
Identity crisis (Score:4, Interesting)
Right now most bookmakers will give you very good odds on the current government actually being in power by the end of 2010. Since the other lot are supposedly going to get rid of the scheme, and there's been no large-scale rollout of the cards to the general population, it probably doesn't make a lot of sense to buy all the readers just now. Not that 'sense' really comes into this, of course.
You don't say. (Score:5, Funny)
Britain has no readers that are able to the cards' microchip
Hey, we all know how hard it can be to a card's microchip.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re:You don't say. (Score:5, Funny)
I accidentally the card's microchip, is this bad? :(
not if you didn't the chip on purpose, then you only have to money, not to jail.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
I was going to explain this meme to people but someone seems to have accidentally the whole of encyclopediadramatica.org
Google cache tiem:
http://74.125.77.132/search?q=cache:w7oVzuVvJRYJ:encyclopediadramatica.com/I_accidentally_X+accidentally+encyclopediadramatica&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=uk&client=firefox-a [74.125.77.132]
Re:You don't say. (Score:5, Funny)
That sentence no verb!! You have no idea how much that me. >:(
Parent
t Britain has no readers that are able... (Score:3, Funny)
Britain has no readers that are able to the cards' microchip,
No problem, can't we just take them round to the Russian embassy? I'm sure that they are quite capable of reading all our microchips.
It was never about reading the cards at the border (Score:5, Interesting)
It was about biometric databases, computer-recognizable photographs and humongous amounts of fingerprints.
Be careful (Score:5, Interesting)
It's easy, and quite tempting, to react to this news with patronizing contempt - and think, "Well, at least we're fairly safe - such a bunch of bunglers couldn't do any real harm".
Unfortunately, a look back at history reveals that appalling inefficiency and incompetence have usually gone hand-in-hand with authoritarian government. But whereas we can still laugh about it, the time may come when doing so is distinctly unwise. People made fun of Hitler, Stalin, and Mussolini throughout their careers, and some got away with it. Others were arrested, beaten up, imprisoned, tortured, shot, or hanged with piano wire.
Why is this news? (Score:4, Insightful)
They've only just started finalising and using these cards. Why is it surprising that there are no readers around?
It's akin to saying that Blu-Ray or DVDs were a waste of time because initially there were no players for them - Hello, you need to wait for people to catch up, especially if the equipment is expensive (and although they're not consumer products, the same rules apply - places need to wait for grants or work out their budgets before buying or using said machines).
Besides, practically no-one has these cards yet - and I doubt anyone will for a while, especially since they cost cash to get (It was ~£50 last I heard)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Well, at least with BluRay and DVD, there were people who actually wanted them. Yes, really, these people did exist.
Now show me one border patrol person that is eager to get yet another thingamajig into their hands that means more work for the same pay?
No problem (Score:3)
Re:"in response to an FoI request"?!? (Score:5, Informative)
About 9 years ago.
Parent
Re:"in response to an FoI request"?!? (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Re:"in response to an FoI request"?!? (Score:5, Informative)
Exceptions include information other that that covered by the Official Secrets Act.
There are also a whole lot of exemptions, such as data that is commercially sensitive, related to criminal investigations or where disclosure would contravene the Data Protection Act etc. When a request is refused the reason for the exemption must be given to the requester.
In practise the Act has meant a lot of information is now public where it wouldn't have been before.
Parent
Re:"in response to an FoI request"?!? (Score:5, Funny)
About 9 years ago.
It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying "Beware of The Leopard.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
the uk has a FOIA? srsly, when did this happen?
I can't disclose that. It's a state secret.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Can't you see the irony here?
The government does something no one wants, acting as if it knows best, then fucks the implementation up in ways few thought about making it worthless for the time being. It's like the drunk who swears he is able to drive, refuses to give up his keys, then gets into an accident before he gets out of the parking spot.