Moving Between Countries? 450
An anonymous reader writes "In six months' time, I am packing up and moving from Australia (Melbourne) to Canada (Vancouver). I'm a qualified network engineer. What I want to know is, what sort of quirks and tricks I am going to have to get used to in the Canadian job market? I'm used to Australian recruiters, and all the hoops you have to jump through, but Canada may have different hoops. I've tried contacting recruiters directly for information but they don't really give out much, as I am not actually in the country yet and therefore not worth their time. Is anyone willing to share their experiences on making the big move from country to country?"
Recruiters in Australia (Score:5, Interesting)
Seeing as you know the Australian market, and I've recently arrived here - what are the hoops here? The biggest challenge I have is finding a technically competent recruiter; many I've spoken to are fine so long as you repeat buzz words, but if you try to explain anything more complex, their eyes glaze over...
I've got a contract for the moment, but it's up in another month or so... Your experiences here would be useful.
My experience (Score:3, Interesting)
Job references in the UK (Score:5, Interesting)
The sort of reason that we would do better with fewer lawyers in this world.
in Canada, you're not a network engineer... (Score:3, Interesting)
Typically to be licensed, you will have had to study engineering at the post-secondary level and pass an ethics exam. See the APEGBC website for more information: http://www.apeg.bc.ca/
I immigrated myself 3 years ago ... (from Brazil) (Score:2, Interesting)
The well known 'Canadian Experience' is an excuse to not hire someone you don't want to for reasons that are not technical
If you're caucasian, you will not have much problem with this
Anyways, IT professions are not regulated and there are a lot of opportunities. Create a resume as expected by Canadians recruiters (Google it) and you will do pretty well.
As for laws and living, I have a couple of friends that immigrated from Brazil to Australia and I think that both country are pretty similar in a lot of aspects
Re:Job references in the UK (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:I'm in Australia (Adelaide) Looking to move cou (Score:4, Interesting)
Without wishing to state the obvious, NZ/AUS is a long way from other places. The flight to the US isn't a killer, but you'll find you only see family once or twice a year. That's OK for a while but once you have kids you may find you want them to be with their relatives more often (or maybe not!) Moving to NZ will at least keep you near your (assumedly) AUS family.
Our friends from NZ just visited last week - we last saw them about three years ago and it'll be another five years before our kids are big enough for me to happily go from the UK to NZ. We miss those friends and I'd like them to be a bigger part of my kids lives.
As for moving countries, we found it quite easy because I was seconded from my UK company. The folks we know who seem to have had the best time are the ones who committed whole-heartedly to the move and got setup in the new country with the intention of staying. Having said that, one of my friends from the US is just about to move back as he can't sell his US house and can't afford to live in the UK anymore. It's a real shame as he was really getting settled in the UK.
My experience is that getting your foot in the door is the hardest part, but once you're in you can demonstrate your competence and all is well. Its time to use every friend, contact or professional organization you can - they can be surprisingly willing to help.
Re:always, Always, ALWAYS, talk to a lawyer... (Score:3, Interesting)
I've moved countries several times -- not just to English speaking ones. Most western laws are basically similar. Assuming you are not going to be doing anything unethical, pay your bills, and generally behave reasonably, you've no need to talk to a lawyer -- ever. Though you'll probably find that most countries (except the UK and Ireland) don't binge-drink as much alcohol as the average Australian, and have much less tolerance for drunken behavior -- that might get you into trouble.
Also never underestimate the power of the "stupid foreigner" card. You can get away with a lot using that, more so in non-English speaking countries.
Re:I'm in Australia (Adelaide) Looking to move cou (Score:5, Interesting)
I moved from the US to Canada (Score:4, Interesting)
I used to be self-employed as a software consultant, working out of my home in Truro, Nova Scotia. But when I grew weary of it, I found that there wasn't much in the way of programming jobs anywhere in Atlantic Canada, and what little there was paid very poorly.
So I used all the Canadian job boards - particularly Craig's List [craigslist.org] - to look for coding jobs anywhere in the country. The job I found was in Vancouver.
I've blogged about it extensively:
- The Vancouver Diaries [vancouverdiaries.com]
I kept blogging there even after I moved back to California, because I intend to return someday. Vancouver is a really wonderful place, or at least it is for some people:It's also the location of the Downtown Eastside, the poorest neighborhood in the whole nation. My job in Gastown was just a couple blocks from there. Many of my diaries are about my encounters with Vancouver's homeless, many of whom were mentally ill.
I was advised never to give money to panhandlers, lest they spend it on drugs. Crystal Meth abuse is widespread there. But I wanted to do something to help, so I often bought them meals.
Often I found that it made their day simply to ask their name and to shake their hand. Folks like that don't get paid that kind of respect very often.
I disagree (Score:3, Interesting)
References just don't work a lot of the time, it's already been pointed out here that a crap worker may get a good reference to get rid of them and a good worker may get a bad reference to try and prevent them leaving.
I've had a bad boss like this before, I just didn't give him as my reference in the end, I gave a friend at work who was on a higher payscale than me and hence good enough to fit the bill of someone senior. It still makes the reference process pointless though because someone who is a friend is always going to give a good reference even if I had actually done a shit job!
At the end of the day people will fiddle the system to suit them from both sides of the reference process, whatever comes out certainly is never going to be an unbiased description of the candidates work ethic or skill set.
Re:I work in Canada (Score:5, Interesting)
Speaking for myself (and I've acted as a hiring manager on dozens of interviews, but less than a hundred) I use references for one reason: to investigate a behaviour(s) I have concern about as a result of something said or not said in the interview. This includes further discussion on specific behavioural answers given.
In my experience, you've got a pretty good handle on whether you're interested pretty quickly in the interview, particularly from an expertise perspective (if not, then your interview is crap). However, there are people out there who are *experts* at interviewing, and their interview answers may not align with their actual behaviours in the job. So the reference check is an opportunity to ask specific questions of a previous employer that will tell you whether the individual in the job acts similar to the individual in the interview.
This approach also allows the reference to give a meaningful reference without incurring any possibility of litigation ('you gave me a shitty reference - I'm suing!' behaviour)
BTW, I am Canadian, interviewing in Canada. Whether this is indeed a characteristic of the overall Canadian job hunting scene , I can't say.
Good luck, mate!
Re:Be Canadian first. (Score:1, Interesting)
I know a lot of non-canadians finding jobs right now (engineering/mining sector) and this is the first I've heard about this Canadian underwear theory.
And as a Canadian who has worked in Australia, I found the work cultures to be more or less identical.
I second the applying directly to companies route though.
A few rules: Never, ever mock Tim Horton's. We know, it's not real coffee, but it's ingrained in us to love it. People are nicer the more east you go, weather/terrain is nicer the more west you go (minus the prairies). The national beers are all american (or foreign owned) now and are universally despised unless on sale. Idiots who would start a fight on bundiberg rum are now idiots who will start a fight on canadian club whiskey.
Re:Job references in the UK (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:I work in Canada (Score:5, Interesting)
As a result, I would happily return to work with any of my former bosses if the opportunity/need arose.