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Apple QuickTime DRM Disables Video Editing Apps 448

Posted by kdawson
from the what-is-this-uninstall-you-speak-of dept.
An anonymous reader writes "According to numerous posts on Apple's discussion forums (several threads of which have been deleted by Apple), as well as a number of popular video editing blogs, Apple's recent QT 7.4 update does more than just enable iTunes video rentals — it also disables Adobe's professional After Effects video editing software. Attempting to render video files after the update results in a DRM permissions error. Unfortunately, it is not possible to roll back to a previous version of QT without doing a full OSX reinstall. Previous QT updates have also been known to have severe issues with pro video editing apps."
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Apple QuickTime DRM Disables Video Editing Apps

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  • by Qbertino (265505) on Wednesday January 23, 2008 @08:06AM (#22151886)
    Don't use Quicktime.
    • by allcar (1111567)
      or After Effects.
    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Better yet, don't use MacOS X.
    • by lucifig (255388) on Wednesday January 23, 2008 @08:08AM (#22151900)
      No, that can't be it. Somehow we have to tie it back to Microsoft.
      • by Anonymous Brave Guy (457657) on Wednesday January 23, 2008 @08:43AM (#22152220)

        Don't use Quicktime on Windows!

        Oh, wait...

      • by coop247 (974899) on Wednesday January 23, 2008 @08:48AM (#22152270)
        I'll never buy another Sony product again. Rootkits, DRM, Blu-Ray, MinDisc, EVIL.

        Oh, wait, this is Apple. Thats cool then, I like them.
        • by arth1 (260657) on Wednesday January 23, 2008 @09:07AM (#22152514) Homepage Journal

          I'll never buy another Sony product again. Rootkits, DRM, Blu-Ray, MinDisc, EVIL.

          Oh, wait, this is Apple. Thats cool then, I like them.

          No, you're more correct than you think. Sony uses Quicktime for quite a few of their products, and it has bit customers hard. As an example, Sony CLIE Multimedia PDAs require Quicktime no newer than 6.5.2 to be installed on the desktop in order to convert movies that can be viewed on the CLIE. However, Sony PSP (Playstation Portable) requires Quicktime 7 or newer to be installed on the desktop.
          Due to Apple's infinite wisdom, Quicktime is neither forwards nor backwards compatible with itself, and neither can you have both installed on the same OS. In other words, you can't convert movies that work on both devices without having two machines, dual boot or virtualization software -- in other words, more than one Windows license.

          And if you install iTunes, it will silently replace Quicktime with a newer version, without even giving you an option. Which breaks video conversion with Sony Image Converter. Sony is aware of it, but from what I've heard, Apple demands that Sony ponies up extra licensing fees for all existing devices if Sony are to support the newer format produced by the Quicktime codec, and refuses to provide backwards compatibility (i.e. letting the newer encoder produce movies playable with the old decoder). That's quite unreasonable, but not unexpected from Apple.
          Lock-in and paying extra for upgrades is S.O.P. for Apple. Why do people like them again?
          • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 23, 2008 @09:18AM (#22152628)
            because they are screwing sony...
            • by BronsCon (927697) <social@bronstrup.com> on Wednesday January 23, 2008 @10:43AM (#22153724) Journal
              I was really looking forward to using some of my 4 remaining mod points in this discussion and I truly do despise Sony (and I'm not too big a fan of Apple, either) but I can't resist the urge to straighten out this one misconception...

              because they are screwing sony...
              no.

              because they are screwing sony's customers...

              Which is not a good reason to like a company. One company who habitually screws over another company which you don't like; ok, you can like them. I may not like Sony and if I do buy a Sony product it's because I've done my research and it is the product which best suits me, but they're not the one being screwed here.

              When a company screws the customer, even if the customer is not their customer, it is a reason to begin to dislike them, as well. Especially if you're a stockholder. When a company spends time figuring out how to screw over not their competition, but their competition's customers, they're not too far off from figuring out how to screw their own customers. Let's face it, that's what this is about.

              Which is why I will never own an Apple product.

              Unless I see some changes.

              People, wake up. This is the same game the US Government plays; but I won't go too far off-topic and get into that in this thread. Maybe tomorrow.
              • by Jesus_666 (702802) on Wednesday January 23, 2008 @01:40PM (#22156200)
                Seriously, is there anyone who's surprised at this? I own a MacBook Pro, but I don't have any illusions about Apple not being a bunch of scumbags. I mean, look at their rich tradition of suing rumor sites. Apple is evil, but they make good stuff. I might as well go and buy from another manufacturer, who is evil as well, but then I don't have a cleaner conscience and I don't get to use OS X.

                Of course you can build your own computer, but you still support a good bunch of evil companies because someone needs to manufacture the parts you're building with. If you don't want to support evil corporations you need to abandon pretty much everything our society is about.

                Yeah, our society is somewhat broken.
          • by Ken D (100098) on Wednesday January 23, 2008 @09:26AM (#22152730)

            And if you install iTunes, it will silently replace Quicktime with a newer version, without even giving you an option.
            Which is how my Quicktime Pro license went *poof* with no warning.
  • by alen (225700) on Wednesday January 23, 2008 @08:08AM (#22151890)
    i say we call the AG in every state to complain how Microsoft is disabling other apps with their updates

    oh, wait
    • Re:kill microsoft (Score:5, Interesting)

      by BeanThere (28381) on Wednesday January 23, 2008 @08:45AM (#22152232)
      Not sure if you were being sarcastic, but to be fair, Vista broke numerous major applications for me, and ended up costing me hundreds of dollars in other software upgrades --- although that's definitely not equivalent to this, I knew going in that there could be application compatibility problems. Usually I'm behind Apple but this sounds like crap, it's not clear to me if it's a bug (i.e. 'honest but huge mistake') or what they're trying to achieve otherwise.
  • As always (Score:3, Informative)

    by Ohreally_factor (593551) on Wednesday January 23, 2008 @08:08AM (#22151894) Journal
    Never upgrade a production box without first upgrading on a test system. And NEVER NEVER upgrade mid project. If you're an individual and not a post production facility, test the upgrade on a separate partition or physical volume.

    Or wait until everyone else gets the kinks worked out.

    This is all common sense, and it's really not that hard. But you'd be surprised at the number of otherwise intelligent people that do stupid shit like upgrading a key component in the middle of a project. And if you absolutely must, do it on a cloned volume with backed up data.
    • Re:As always (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Shadow-isoHunt (1014539) on Wednesday January 23, 2008 @08:13AM (#22151944) Homepage
      You miss the point. Updating quicktime should *not* break adobe.
      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        True, but how many times should something not happen on a computer, yet it does?

        I love how everyone is quick to smack Apple upside the chops on this - how do we know it wasn't Adobe that screwed up here by using the API incorrectly, and now they're getting bit on the ass?

        Does this occur in other (non-Apple) apps that compress to QuickTime?

        Please, before accusing others of fanboi-ism, be objective yourself. If Apple b0rked this, then they deserve the hit on the chin they're getting. If Adobe fucked up, the
        • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

          by godawful (84526)
          Could be worse, the article could've read "Apples Quicktime Update Bricks After Effects!!"
          as its currently presented I'm not feeling nearly enough rage.
      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by gobbo (567674)

        Updating quicktime should *not* break adobe.

        I agree with your "should not," but 15 years of pulling hair over Quicktime says reality wins. If you rely on QT to make money, e.g. video editing, your production machine is tied very closely to the version of the software you are running, and nearly every version of every app on your machine is determined by that, plus the main editing apps you rely on. It may mean that you are running a much older OS version than you want, or even older hardware. Anyone who relies on Digidesign to butter their bread kn

    • Re:As always (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Coopjust (872796) on Wednesday January 23, 2008 @08:21AM (#22152010)
      Because every video editor has a test system? Not everyone has a non-production machine or the time/resources to test every update. That's Apple's job. And while you can't expect Apple to test compatibility with every OS X app, After Effects is a pretty major video app.

      Can't Leopard have Automatic Updating turned on [apple.com]?
    • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 23, 2008 @08:25AM (#22152048)
      I love you man, people like you make my tech support job much easier.

      I'm serious.

      When I can say "the answer is to restore from your backups".

      YOU are the guy that say "ok, cool, just wanted to see if there was a workaround first". YOU are the one that is back in action less than an hour later instead of bitching about how Apple Quality control has gone down the shitter since last year.

      Seriously, if I could give you a free computer I would.
    • Re:As always (Score:4, Interesting)

      by davecb (6526) * <davec-b@rogers.com> on Wednesday January 23, 2008 @08:27AM (#22152056) Homepage Journal

      That assumes that everyone is a sysadmin. I am, so the suggestion is usable, but what if I was an accountant? I get a mandatory training film on Sarbanes-Oxley that says "upgrade your quicktime", I click the icon, and my computer turns into a brick.

      I'd claim the onus is on the distributor of quicktime, that they test their updates and certify that they have done due diligence to ensure that they are not shipping, for example, a rootkit.

      And if they haven't, then let litigatious customers sue them into oblivion.

      --dave

      • by ArsenneLupin (766289) on Wednesday January 23, 2008 @08:49AM (#22152278)

        I get a mandatory training film on Sarbanes-Oxley that says "upgrade your quicktime", I click the icon, and my computer turns into a brick.
        That's expected. Sarbanes-Oxley already turned your economy into a brick.
    • Re:As always (Score:5, Interesting)

      by MrHanky (141717) on Wednesday January 23, 2008 @08:28AM (#22152070) Homepage Journal
      It never ceases to amaze me how Apple fanboys are willing to blame everyone but Apple when Apple fucks up something. But oh no, Apple 'just works', and when they 'just stop working', it's always the user's or someone else's fault.

      Hello. This is an update to a stable operating system, not some beta kernel module downloaded from Sourceforge.
      • ..how, whenever Apple fucks something up, Slashdot fills up with comments taking shots at the "Apple Fanboys" and their supposed zealous defense of Apple.

        "Just wait, the Apple Fanboys will blame this all on Microsoft"
        "But all the fanboys said this was unpossible!"
        "Ooh, the fanboys will be crying over this one!"

        I've yet to actually see one of these fanboys.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 23, 2008 @08:09AM (#22151912)
    Yet the apple fans cannot see it.
    • by Travoltus (110240) on Wednesday January 23, 2008 @08:29AM (#22152072) Journal
      Perhaps they can't see it because Apple keeps deleting forum postings about it.
    • by DXMikey (1053856) on Wednesday January 23, 2008 @08:29AM (#22152074)
      We see and Winboi's can be just as bad - or worse. Its just that on Slashdot we like to jump to the most negative conclusion based on absolutely no evidence and take up space with 500 entry threads until someone posts a follow-up story that clarifies the issue. And no one in said 500 entry thread will have gotten it right in the first place - you and I included.
    • by Serengeti (48438) on Wednesday January 23, 2008 @08:32AM (#22152098)
      If you're telling me that apple 'fanboys' are oblivious to their own problems, there must also be a term for what you are doing right now.

      If you paid attention to any discussion about Leopard over the last few months, you'd see that there are a lot of Apple users (fans, even) that are unhappy with their Leopard experience. Well, so far anyways.

      I don't think anyone who likes Apple would fight you on the argument that DRM is bad. Furthermore, that DRM is the cause of breaking legitimate programs is a pretty serious problem that only the most ignorant of Apple fanboys can dismiss.

      And I don't think you'd argue me on the point that both sides of the table have ignorant schmucks on it.
      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by Fred_A (10934)

        I don't think anyone who likes Apple would fight you on the argument that DRM is bad. Furthermore, that DRM is the cause of breaking legitimate programs is a pretty serious problem that only the most ignorant of Apple fanboys can dismiss.
        But wasn't every Mac user in the dTrace story saying that there wasn't an ounce of DRM in Mac OS except for iTunes ?
        Is Quicktime part of iTunes nowaday ? (I don't use either)

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by geminidomino (614729) *

        If you paid attention to any discussion about Leopard over the last few months, you'd see that there are a lot of Apple users (fans, even) that are unhappy with their Leopard experience. Well, so far anyways.
        So the solution is that Windows (what Apples Marketroids call "PC") users who are unhappy with their experiences should get a Mac, but Apple users should be unhappy and continue to give Apple money.

        I swear, the Pope must *wish* he was Steve Jobs.
  • by Malevolent Tester (1201209) * on Wednesday January 23, 2008 @08:12AM (#22151934) Journal
    Without kdawson's helpful comments, I can't make my mind up - was this elitist or egalitarian?
  • by davecb (6526) * <davec-b@rogers.com> on Wednesday January 23, 2008 @08:14AM (#22151954) Homepage Journal

    Use the recent Dtrace-fix kernel module to get tracing working, and trace the offending program until you find the error. Then write a kenel module to fix that.

    --dave

  • Yay Apple (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Nursie (632944) on Wednesday January 23, 2008 @08:18AM (#22151984)
    Have there been enough examples of Apple bricking things, DRMing stuff and generally being total asshats for us to give up on the "Apple are enlightened, wonderful and friendly to techies" meme yet?

    Apple make shiny things for fashion victims. Apple make good UIs. Apple seem to have a better security model than MS.

    But it's time to admit that Apple are just as much coprporate MP/RI-AA whores as MS.
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      To be honest they're not even that good. It's not as if MacOS and various Apple apps don't have their's fair share of security flaws. Prominently, Safari and iTunes have been fairly susceptible over the years. The only security benefits MacOS does have are the ones inherited from the underlying Unix architecture and certainly not from any innovation or competence in security at Apple.

      Apple is a bad company all round, their hardware always has defaults from fire hazard magsafe adapters through to discolourin
      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by localman (111171)
        I agree with most of your criticisms. And I don't think anyone would call me a mindless fashion sheep. But I still buy Apple stuff because they have the best (so far) GUI + unix + media management software package around. And yes, I've spent years running Windows and Linux, too. And still do on occasion.

        They got OSX right (comparatively). And their expensive hardware is decent enough if price isn't a primary concern. I wish they'd improve their act in other areas because I'll probably be using their s
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by bkr1_2k (237627)
      Finally, someone who understands the good and the bad! I like Apple products, in general. I have used a Mac since OS X was released because I was tired of fighting firewire on my linux boxes. Over the last five years though, they have increasingly locked consumers out of functionality, starting most obviously with "breaking" (in my opinion) iTunes so it's basically just a useless front end for their store, which I don't really use. They make it difficult to burn bootable disks because it's a buried opti
  • by DXMikey (1053856) on Wednesday January 23, 2008 @08:18AM (#22151986)
    We use VLC. Now if the Handbrake folks would get a clue and realize that 0.9.1 fuxxors (I haven't got to use that one for a while) .mkv files and stop blaming it on QT or VLC we'd be happier.

    Mac - best damn video editing platform in the world.

    Seriously - Apple in my experience pulls posts when their veracity can't be verified. Lord knows they keep plenty of very negative postings on their forums when the bug or whatever issue it is, is a known issue.

    I'd stay tuned on this one - Apple has no reason to screw up 3rd party video editors and I certainly wouldn't build a conspiracy theory that its to boost their Video Rentals.

    I bet this one is fixed pretty soon. I'll ante $0.25 on the bet.
    • 0.9.1 fuxxors (I haven't got to use that one for a while) .mkv files

      Lemme guess, seeking forward works, but seeking backward sends you back to the beginning of the file?

      That happens with mplayer on Linux too. But clearly it's a bug in QuickTime, VLC, and mplayer, not HandBrake.

    • by Ohreally_factor (593551) on Wednesday January 23, 2008 @09:22AM (#22152688) Journal
      Just to clarify: It's not the quicktime player that is the issue, it's the quicktime subsystem that is integral to AfterEffects and other pro video applications. Substituting VLC will not solve this. The issue really is much more serious. Bad fuck up on Apple's part. However, I don't think this is really going to bother most video professionals, because they will have waited to upgrade (to see what potential problems might crop up), or they're testing on non-production boxes.
  • by stormguard2099 (1177733) on Wednesday January 23, 2008 @08:19AM (#22151998)
    Renting and watching videos should be enough for anyone
  • by cybrthng (22291) on Wednesday January 23, 2008 @08:20AM (#22152008) Journal
    Once you install quicktime updates on OSX you can't un-install them without re-installing the OS? WTF is all this hoopla about Windows Containing DRM/WMP11 crap but quicktime being worse? I mean WMP11/Vista DRM doesn't stop you from using Pro tools EVER. WMP11 is about 20 megs of code sitting around that can be replaced with another player.

    Being a windows user another thing i can't stand is the stupid Apple Updater. No matter how you tell the program you don't want the f&**(@ installed it tries to update itself any chance it gets even if you just watch a quicktime.

    I don't want iTunes, don't want Quicktime, don't want a broken browser and i certainly wouldn't support an OS that meant upgrades to a media player could potentially break your purchased apps functionality with the only recourse being a re-install. Thats so WIN NT 4 which is so TEN YEARS AGO.
    • by RJabelman (550626) on Wednesday January 23, 2008 @08:29AM (#22152076) Homepage
      Quicktime is in fact Mac OS's Audio and Video subsystem: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quicktime#QuickTime_framework [wikipedia.org]

      It's much more likely that updates to the underlying API are what's breaking After Effects etc, than updates to the media player bit.
      • by cybrthng (22291) on Wednesday January 23, 2008 @08:40AM (#22152182) Journal
        More the reason to support my argument and then some. We have foreign nations struggling to file suit against MS because of the ties that WMP has into Windows yet your sitting here telling me "QT is more then a media player" that it ties into the subsystem of OSX and once its there, you can't do anything about it except re-install?

        Poor design if you ask me and thats a hell of a lot more vendor lockin than what MS does.

        I'm not defending MS either, just trying to understand wtf is going on. I was about to give OSX the light of day but it doesn't seem to be any more practical than upgrading to Vista.
        • by alexhmit01 (104757) on Wednesday January 23, 2008 @09:09AM (#22152532)
          Quicktime is Apple's underlying media subsystem. It's not bolted on. The Quicktime Player is bolted on to wrap the functions and play videos. The Quicktime Pro program that they sell enables editing. There is no lock-in, because anyone can provide a media layer, and anyone can access Quicktime. Even Realbasic Apps can bundle Quicktime and do whatever they want. You could write your own media player with it's own DRM and send content to Quicktime (although hackers would grab the unencrypted layer inside of Quicktime).

          There should be a way to roll-back the Quicktime update, because the Package should limit changes to the Quicktime Framework and Quicktime Player apps, but I don't know that there isn't Quicktime code everywhere. It should still exist, but it's not a media player, and it's not vendor lockin.

          MS gets nailed for Vendor lock-in for bundling not core programs and not letting them be removed. On a Mac, if I don't want Safari, Quicktime Player, iTunes, etc., I just drag the Application to the trash and I never see it again. I still have the underlying OS Components of WebKit (I think that it's an OS Level Framework now) and Quicktime, but I don't have the applications. Microsoft REFUSED to allow the deletion of IE/WMP, and when forced by the courts to provide a version without them, removed the underlying OS components to break Windows.

          That's why MS's bundling behavior was problematic, and Apples not so much. Apple lets you remove applications you want without hosing the OS. MS refused to let you remove the application without removing the OS Components, and you NEED media capability even if you don't want WMP, and you NEED the HTML component, because many applications use it once you make it a standard OS Component.
          • There is a straight forward way to downgrade without OS reinstall. Google "downgrade quicktime 7.4 to 7.3" and you will find the instructions. It is not too difficult. You need the installer file and Pacifist. Not the most elegant solution, but which quicker than OS reinstall. This might be in other comments as well, so sorry if this is repetitive. Despite the uproar, I really wonder what the impact is? During the period when Abobe was not updating video apps for the Mac, we switched to Combustion an
        • by Ohreally_factor (593551) on Wednesday January 23, 2008 @09:30AM (#22152790) Journal
          You're missing the point. There's this thing called the Quicktime Player. That's not at issue here.

          What is at issue is this other thing called Quicktime. It's a technology that provides video services for OS X and applications. Applications such as AfterEffects, Final Cut Pro, etc. and iTunes. A change in this subsystem to support a new feature in iTunes has fucked up support for AfterEffects. Apple fucked up, no doubt about it. But the sky isn't falling and this is not even comparable to MS embedding a browser in their OS to kill Netscape. Not even close.
    • by 0100010001010011 (652467) on Wednesday January 23, 2008 @08:52AM (#22152334)
      Actually. Yes you can. It's not as simple as a quick "Roll Back this install" but by no means is it as impossible to revert as some programs in XP.

      Step 1: Download 7.3.1 for what ever version of OSX you're using. http://www.apple.com/support/downloads/ [apple.com]
      Step 2: Copy the installer package to the desktop.
      Step 3: Right click and "Show Package Contents", open "Contents"
      Step 4: Open "QuickTime_Leopard.dist" in a text editor (Not sure what it is called in other versions.
      Step 5: Scroll down to "newerQuickTimePresent()" (All Apple pre and postflight scripts are just that, scripts. You can write them in bash, perl, ruby, python, php, etc.)
      Step 6: Change "return false" to "return true". Or Comment it out, etc
      Step 7: Install.
  • by UberHoser (868520) on Wednesday January 23, 2008 @08:22AM (#22152018)
    Not trying to me a smacktard here, but if it purposely goes out and wacks another app, can't Adobe sue ?
  • Two points... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Aphrika (756248) on Wednesday January 23, 2008 @08:23AM (#22152038)
    Firstly, fair enough not being to uninstall an update to a product, but surely you'd expect to be able to fix the problem by uninstalling QuickTime? Is this problem caused by Apple virtually integrating it into the OS on Macs?

    Secondly, I've never been happy with the way Apple seem to always deny issues by removing forum posts. This isn't the first time it's happened. I'd like to see them acknowledging their mistake and issuing a fix, rather than sweeping it under the carpet and pretending it doesn't exist.

    • Secondly, I've never been happy with the way Apple seem to always deny issues by removing forum posts

      But Apple doesn't always remove negative posts. Here is a huge thread on some major bugs in their Airport Extreme Base Station [apple.com], with over 20,000 views and 300+ replies. It has been around for a few months now.

      People like to jump on Apple for removing posts, however their forum has some pretty clear rules on what is considered acceptable and what isn't. Usually deleted threads/posts are done so for a r

  • by carou (88501) on Wednesday January 23, 2008 @08:39AM (#22152166) Homepage Journal
    All the error message says is "You do not have permission to open this file" - you know, like file permissions, like chmod. It could just be that Quicktime has accidentally set the wrong flags on a temporary file.

    There are a lot of people very quick to jump on the bandwagon, saying "DRM this" and "Defective By Design that" but I see nothing to suggest this has anything to do with DRM. Even less to suggest this was a deliberate move by Apple. (And even then, the headline "Disables Video Editing Apps" is sensationalist - only one application seems to be affected).

    So what remains as fact: Apple have a introduced a bug in an update to a shared library - so what? It's hardly the first time this has happened, on any OS. And maybe not even that - perhaps it's even possible that QuickTime is correct, and the change has just exposed a latent bug in AfterEffects? We just don't have the data to make a judgment, so perhaps everyone could calm down and stop acting like Apple is chained to Hollywood and making the sky fall in.
    • by mh1997 (1065630) on Wednesday January 23, 2008 @08:51AM (#22152312)

      So what remains as fact: Apple have a introduced a bug in an update to a shared library - so what? It's hardly the first time this has happened, on any OS. And maybe not even that - perhaps it's even possible that QuickTime is correct, and the change has just exposed a latent bug in AfterEffects? We just don't have the data to make a judgment, so perhaps everyone could calm down and stop acting like Apple is chained to Hollywood and making the sky fall in.
      I agree - so what? What's the big deal with this, it's not like anyone expected something from Apple to just work.
    • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 23, 2008 @09:41AM (#22152956)
      Okay, 60 seconds reading the referenced link in the articles would show that it is NOT a permissions problem that can be fixed with CHMOD. The files in question will open fine with the iTunes player but not with QT.
      I see the Apple happy moderators choose the more convenient and not the real "insightful" route of modding you up in defense of Apple instead of actually reading about the problem. Moderator thinking, "Oh this person must be right, there is no way Apple could have messed this up."

      http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1342677&start=30&tstart=0 [apple.com]
  • by DoofusOfDeath (636671) on Wednesday January 23, 2008 @08:41AM (#22152190)
    They took the two main selling points of a Mac: (1) "it just works", and (2) it being a great platform for creative work, and sacrificed *both* of those things on the altar of DRM.

    I think they need to get back to "thinking different".
    • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

      by jimicus (737525)
      I think they need to get back to "thinking different".

      I disagree. "Let's take the biggest selling points of our flagship product and break them!" is most definitely thinking very different to most established ideas.
  • Conversion (Score:3, Interesting)

    by debrain (29228) on Wednesday January 23, 2008 @08:46AM (#22152244) Journal
    Notwithstanding contractual consent by the person installing the program, this sounds like conversion [wikipedia.org]: the unwanted and intentional interference with another's goods. In this case, a Mac owner is 1. unable to use the programs they otherwise would be able to use, having installed the upgrade to Quicktime; and 2. unable to undo the harm caused by the installation of the program without the time intensive and expensive reinstallation of the operating system.

    Even though it is technically given by the click-through agreement, I believe consent is tenuous; intentionally and willfully misleading individuals about the value of the upgrade (or tying [wikipedia.org] DRM to the upgrade's necessity, such as the constant bombardment of news that generates fear over security holes) undermines a person's ability to consent - there is a fundamental mistake in the formation of the contract: Quicktime upgrades should not break other software. This is especially true if you are a developer.

    One would imagine some legal remedy to this. The facts as I have just read them indicate a behaviour that is grossly unfair to consumers, nigh an appalling disregard for the preferences and rights of ones' own customers.

    All that being said, I'm certain this will be remedied soon, or customers will flock to alternatives (or form the incentive for others to create alternatives).
  • by Stele (9443) on Wednesday January 23, 2008 @08:52AM (#22152320) Homepage
    Apple is notorious for stuff like this. They have all sorts of shared components (like QuickTime, FxPlug, etc) that they update independently from each other. I develop for Final Cut Pro and Motion, and the last time I installed a beta for them, they installed a component which broke QuickTime. Now I can't launch the QuickTime player, iTunes, iMovie, or any other app that relies on certain QuickTime codecs, without them crashing immediately. Recent updates to QuickTime haven't fixed the problem either. And of course you can't uninstall anything without reinstalling the OS. Look around - there are plenty of people asking for the "Quicktime deinstaller" which does exist but has its own problems.

    Between stuff like this and having to essentially port my code every time they release a new version of OS X, and the constant switching between processor architectures, APIs, UI design requirements, etc. all I can say is it REALLY sucks being a Mac developer.
  • by blootsvoets (1090643) on Wednesday January 23, 2008 @08:52AM (#22152332) Homepage
    Full discussion on http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1342677&start=30&tstart=0 [apple.com], which makes the summary quite lame. The fact that subtitles also broke with QT 7.4 does say something though..
  • by pat mcguire (1134935) <pjm2119&columbia,edu> on Wednesday January 23, 2008 @09:46AM (#22153038)
    This whole "QT" thing bewilders me. I don't know whether to mindlessly flame Apple or KDE...
  • by Ralph Spoilsport (673134) on Wednesday January 23, 2008 @10:09AM (#22153300) Journal
    and someone is getting his butt chewed by his supervisor. I used to work at Apple testing video stuff, so I know (I got my butt chewed a few times).

    Apple has extensive testing, and QT is one of the more extensively tested systems. All the major programs are in a test matrix. It doesn't take THAT much effort to do a basic run on say, a dozen or so major apps - an afternoon is all it takes, really.

    A minimal test matrix would be a grid with check boxes and comments.

    FCP
    open (Y/N) open new project (Y/N) open old project (Y/N) capture video (Y/N) process video (Y/N) export to tape (Y/N) export to QT file (Y/N)

    iMovie
    open (Y/N) open new project (Y/N) open old project (Y/N) capture video (Y/N) process video (Y/N) export to tape (Y/N) export to QT file (Y/N)

    Premiere
    open (Y/N) open new project (Y/N) open old project (Y/N) capture video (Y/N) process video (Y/N) export to tape (Y/N) export to QT file (Y/N)

    After Effects
    open (Y/N) open new project (Y/N) open old project (Y/N) capture video (Y/N) process video (Y/N) export to tape (Y/N) export to QT file (Y/N)

    iDVD
    open (Y/N) open new project (Y/N) open old project (Y/N) capture video (Y/N) process video (Y/N) export to tape (Y/N) export to QT file (Y/N)

    DVD SP
    open (Y/N) open new project (Y/N) open old project (Y/N) capture video (Y/N) process video (Y/N) export to tape (Y/N) export to QT file (Y/N)

    etc. It isn't fucking rocket science, and a single failure on ANY of that is/should be enough to delay the project. I can't imagine someone in QT QA signed off knowing 7.4 would break Adobe AE. While QT does have a prod schedule, it's not like it's tied to NAB like FCP, or the Dev conferences like other apple apps and systems. And it's not like it's some huge number of man hours to fix it. Apple has a software library FILLED to the gunnels with all the minty goodness and this kind of testing is something they do. My guess is someone fucked up and either check AE as working without testing it, or its simply didn't get tested in some imaginary rush to get the latest rev out the door. Either way, some flunky's going to get a lot of heat.

    RS

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