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Vista Runs Out of Memory While Copying Files 661

Posted by kdawson
from the how-hard-can-it-be dept.
ta bu shi da yu writes "It appears that, incredibly, Vista can run out of memory while copying files. ZDNet is reporting that not only does it run out of memory after copying 16,400+ files, but that 'often there is little indication that file copy operations haven't completed correctly.' Apparently a fix was scheduled for SP1 but didn't make it; there is a hotfix that you must request."
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Vista Runs Out of Memory While Copying Files

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  • by Sub Zero 992 (947972) on Tuesday October 16, 2007 @02:04PM (#20998957) Homepage
    the box I "make use of" has just 15,000 mp3s...
  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 16, 2007 @02:05PM (#20998971)
    16k files should be enough for everybody.
    • Re:Billy G says (Score:5, Informative)

      by Seismologist (617169) on Tuesday October 16, 2007 @02:13PM (#20999155)
      Found the quote on wikiquote [wikiquote.org]:

      I laid out memory so the bottom 640K was general purpose RAM and the upper 384 I reserved for video and ROM, and things like that. That is why they talk about the 640K limit. It is actually a limit, not of the software, in any way, shape, or form, it is the limit of the microprocessor. That thing generates addresses, 20-bits addresses, that only can address a megabyte of memory. And, therefore, all the applications are tied to that limit. It was ten times what we had before. But to my surprise, we ran out of that address base for applications within--oh five or six years people were complaining.
      • Re:Billy G says (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Fulcrum of Evil (560260) on Tuesday October 16, 2007 @02:49PM (#20999813)
        Funny, I thought he just bought the OS from someone else - didn't lay it out at all.
  • by TJ_Phazerhacki (520002) on Tuesday October 16, 2007 @02:05PM (#20998975) Journal
    At the end, there will be free therapy. And Cake!
    • by TellarHK (159748)
      ... and grief counseling.

      Cake, and grief counseling. Far more appropriate. I just switched my primary desktop to Vista this past weekend (More a "Why the hell not, gotta learn it to support it -someday-) resignation, and have seen that after it's patched... Vista's still a buggy bastard. I haven't seen Explorer shit itself as frequently as I have this past three days since Windows ME.
    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by newgalactic (840363)
      That's one of the funniest sigs I've read in a while. btw, I'm also a born-again Christian.
      • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

        by lattyware (934246)

        That's one of the funniest sigs I've read in a while. btw, I'm also a born-again Christian.
        That's one of the funniest things I've read in a while.
    • by QuantumPion (805098) on Tuesday October 16, 2007 @02:18PM (#20999245)
      the cake is a lie
      the cake is a lie
      the cake is a lie
  • Figures... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by snowraver1 (1052510) on Tuesday October 16, 2007 @02:06PM (#20998985)
    And that is one of many reasons we are all still running XP
  • Vista (Score:2, Informative)

    When I copy a bunch of files from one directory to another, I get 'Explorer has stopped working and must restart'. I've resorted to using DOS to copy the files. I wish I had stuck with 2000 Server :)

    • Re:Vista (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Strudelkugel (594414) * on Tuesday October 16, 2007 @02:12PM (#20999113)

      I have 13K+ music tracks on a backup disk. If I try to copy them with the Explorer UI, it does nothing - No error message or anything. I reverted to Robocopy, which works fine. You must be doing the same thing. Doesn't anyone at Microsoft have a big music collection to copy, or do they just use their Macs and iPods for that? ;-)

      • Microsoft employees buy another copy of their 13K+ music collections if they want another copy.
      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by cc22dd (1174901)

        I reverted to Robocopy, which works fine.

        Robocopy is the command line utility from the Win XP resource kit cd, right? That might be good for pros, but I recently found this little utility (free for personal use) called TeraCopy [codesector.com] via Lifehacker. Once installed, this becomes the default copy handler for Windows explorer and does an amazing job. It lets you pause and resume copying, and has error recovery too. It even is smart enough to recognize if I've started a copy operation and then try to copy more fil

  • I was thinking "big deal", who copies that many files at once?

    Then I read it's cumulative between reboots! I can imagine this will hit many servers that have any kind of auto-copy job they do on a schedule.
    • by Bill, Shooter of Bul (629286) on Tuesday October 16, 2007 @02:10PM (#20999073) Journal
      If you are using Vista as a server, you pretty much deserve what ever happens to you.
    • by cnettel (836611)
      It only appears to affect full copying with GUI. xcopy, that actually uses quite a bit of the underlying API, seems not to be affected. Although it IS possible to script jobs through COM objects and the shell, I don't think any sanely configured server will have it done that way.
    • by Sycraft-fu (314770) on Tuesday October 16, 2007 @02:19PM (#20999253)
      The reason being is I've setup a Vista system and copied about 100,000 files (totaling about 60GB) drive to drive in a single operation, without error. So while I'm not saying this isn't a Vista error, I'm wondering what else has to be done to trigger it. The persisting across reboots, even if you break it down smaller really makes it sound like another program is somehow interfering with the copy. I'll have to mess around with it at work, we have Vista test machines and Cadence installs north of 250,000 files when you install its libraries. I know it installs fine, though that isn't a copy strictly speaking as it is files being extracted from archives.

      I'm just wondering if perhaps there isn't more to this than just "OMG Vista runs out of memory!" If it is a memory issue, why then haven't I encountered it, doing far larger amounts of files?
      • by coolnicks (865625) on Tuesday October 16, 2007 @02:31PM (#20999497)
        KB 942435:

        This problem occurs because of a memory leak in the Windows OLE component. This memory leak is triggered by the way that Windows Explorer deals with the extended attributes of the files.
        Its only files with streams, and apparently kaspersky makes it wose by that fact that it tags every single file with a stream.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 16, 2007 @02:08PM (#20999031)
    I don't want to start a holy war here, but what is the deal with you Vista fanatics? I've been sitting here at my freelance gig in front of a Vista PC (an Intel Core 2 Duo w/4 gigs of RAM) for about 20 minutes now while it attempts to copy a 17 Meg file from one folder on the hard drive to another folder. 20 minutes. At home, on my ancient Mac running OS 9, which by all standards should be a lot slower than this Vista PC, the same operation would take about 2 minutes. If that.

    In addition, during this file transfer, Firefox will not work. And everything else has ground to a halt. Even Notepad is straining to keep up as I type this.

    I won't bore you with the laundry list of other problems that I've encountered while working on various Vista PCs, but suffice it to say there have been many, not the least of which is I've never seen a Vista PC that has run faster than its Mac OSX counterpart, despite the Vista PC's same chip architecture. My 286/12 with 2 megs of ram runs faster than this 2.4ghz mhz machine at times. From a productivity standpoint, I don't get how people can claim that Vista is a superior operating system.

    Vista lovers, flame me if you'd like, but I'd rather hear some intelligent reasons why anyone would choose to use Vista over other faster, cheaper, more stable systems.
    • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

      by Frosty Piss (770223)
      God what an ass kiss! I mean, read that post in the context of Slashdot:

      I don't want to start a holy war here
      And...

      I won't bore you with the laundry list of other problems
      And...

      Vista lovers, flame me if you'd like...
      I'm sorry, but if you where not going for "holy war", than you where going for what essentially constitutes a Slashdot Blowjob. Zero meaningful content, AC.
      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by RobertM1968 (951074)

        No, what's really humorous is that the VIRTUALLY EXACT SAME POST (substitute Linux for OSX & OS9, change a couple of the system specs - otherwise identical) was modded flamebait while this was modded informative.

        http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=329765&cid=20999373 [slashdot.org]

        Neat, huh? I love consistent moderation! Or perhaps we should ask what that says of /. mods of late? Is Linux (or Ubuntu Linux in particular) on the way out of /. mod's favs - and being replaced with OSX/OS9?

        All in all, I think

        • How can you expect consistent moderation? Because of the way the system works, the first mod can effectively hide a post from other modders (yes they advice you to mod at -1 but who does that?) so wether a post gets seen or not depends on who gets to see it first. Mod it down, and it is gone. Mod it up, and more people see it, this includes downward modders but also upward modders, so it totally depends on the first mod.

          Then there is the fact that moderation is totally random. So random that sometimes I ge

        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          by HarvardAce (771954)

          No, what's really humorous is that the VIRTUALLY EXACT SAME POST (substitute Linux for OSX & OS9, change a couple of the system specs - otherwise identical) was modded flamebait while this was modded informative.

          http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=329765&cid=20999373 [slashdot.org]

          Neat, huh? I love consistent moderation! Or perhaps we should ask what that says of /. mods of late? Is Linux (or Ubuntu Linux in particular) on the way out of /. mod's favs - and being replaced with OSX/OS9?

          I normally don't feed trolls, but here goes:

          The original post (in this thread) was clearly meant as a satire based upon the post that you also dug up. The post is now showing as funny instead of informative, but often you'll find informative or interesting mods on funny posts as an additional satire, which in itself is often quite funny (e.g. seeing a clearly nonsense but otherwise funny post modded as informative is often funny). Regardless, this post is funny, not because of the content alone, but b

    • by n dot l (1099033) on Tuesday October 16, 2007 @02:41PM (#20999663)
      The original rant may be found here [kottke.org].
  • by zsouthboy (1136757) on Tuesday October 16, 2007 @02:09PM (#20999035)
    they can only send 16,000 files to the RIAA and MPAA to check, at once.
  • ... the exact number is 16384 ?
  • How much Ram does Vista POS DRM System need??
  • but that 'often there is little indication that file copy operations haven't completed correctly.'
    I would think this is a good thing.
  • by roadkill_cr (1155149) on Tuesday October 16, 2007 @02:11PM (#20999097)
    Oh, the fools! If only they'd built it to let you copy 16,401 files!
  • Just about everyone is.
  • by BenEnglishAtHome (449670) * on Tuesday October 16, 2007 @02:16PM (#20999203)
    I want an OS that lets me re-organize my pr0n anytime I want. I *need* to be able to select 50K-100K files at a time and move them from place to place without slowdowns. Ever try, in Windows, to search your network for all the *.jpg files, select a few hundred thousand of them in the search window, and drag them to the new firewire disk you just plugged in? It's painful, lemme tell ya.

    Anybody want to suggest an OS that would work for me? I'm serious.
  • Is this related to the playing music and network file copy slow down bug as well?
  • by Huntr (951770) on Tuesday October 16, 2007 @02:17PM (#20999223)
    .. when your GUI is using 2 gigs of RAM.
  • When I discovered a similar bug in Windows NT eight years ago (incomplete copying a large directory tree, silent), I installed FAR [farmanager.com] and haven't bothered with using Windows Explorer for any important stuff ever since. It makes me glad skills learned years ago are still useful: I'm using FAR in Vista.
  • Amazing that Microsoft are so short-sighted that they don't consider this important enough to include the fix in SP1.
    Think of the potential loss of important files just because this thing doesn't report when it fails.
    OK 16400 is a lot of files but its not unrealistic number. Just my windows directory alone has about 15800 files (not that I would want to copy it).
    I just hope this bug directly adversely affects enough managers that make purchasing decisions to drive a few more to adopt Linux as a company-wide
  • not 16,400 (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Spy der Mann (805235)
    Very probably it's 16,384, as in 2^14. I'm sure it was a hardcoded limit. So typical, Microsoft... so typical.
  • Bad summery (Score:5, Informative)

    by gravis777 (123605) on Tuesday October 16, 2007 @02:27PM (#20999411)
    Apparently the submitter skimmed the article, and decided to post up a Vista bash on Slashdot.

    FTA:

    The "Out of Memory" error (which is affectionately known at the PC Doc HQ as the "Out of Cheese" error ... don't ask why ...) is one of the biggest and most baffling of Vista's file handling problems has been occurs when a Vista user (running Kaspersky Anti Virus 6 or 7) tries to copy a large number of files (~16,400)
    Apparently its just a problem with this antivirus program running in Vista. I move large amounts of files around in Vista quite often (granted, its Vista 64), sometimes well over 20,000 files at a time, and have never run into this issue.
    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by mysticgoat (582871)

      Yes, for Vista it has certainly been a bad summery. The forecast for the upcoming wintery doesn't look so good, either.

      Pun-ishments aside, those who RATFA know that the fault is in the Vista kernel, it is consistently triggered by Kapersky, but is also triggered by other software, and by implication it is not consistently repeatable and therefore cannot be easily worked around.

      On my WinXP home machine, I routinely copy more than 16,400 files when doing a full data backup to an external drive, which I do

      • Re:Bad summery (Score:5, Informative)

        by Zebra_X (13249) on Tuesday October 16, 2007 @03:36PM (#21000459)
        Lol the TFA is FUD. Read the HOTFIX notes which explains that the issue is with Windows OLE (NOT part of the kernel) and files that utilize extended attributes. Note that the crappy AV product adds extended attributes to all of your files (which i'm sure speeds up every file operation on your PC), thus with a kapersky infected computer - you are assured to have the problem. With "normal" files it's unlikely you will have this issue. Media files and the new office files are more likely to pose a problem than your standard files.

        The article does not state clearly wether physical memory is a constraint.
        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          by mysticgoat (582871)

          So the problem is not in the kernel? It's because the OLE chrome doesn't work right with the extended attributes chrome?

          And even so, Microsoft can't fix it in SP1?

          This news is both strange and disturbing.

        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          Note that the crappy AV product adds extended attributes to all of your files (which i'm sure speeds up every file operation on your PC), thus with a kapersky infected computer - you are assured to have the problem.

          I don't see a problem with KAV here. Surely extended attributes - one of the often mentioned features of NTFS - are meant to be used for file metadata, instead of inconsistent 3rd-party approaches (such as separate databases)? And if so, why KAV shouldn't use it to, for example, save date of las

  • Not Just Vista (Score:5, Insightful)

    by cmacb (547347) on Tuesday October 16, 2007 @02:28PM (#20999431) Homepage Journal
    I don't think there has ever been a version of Windows that could deal with large numbers of files. Particularly if you are using the GUI interface. The whole thing is a toy operating system, really.

    A few years ago, while investigating a similar problem with a production server (a SERVER not a client machine) the machine would gradually grind to a halt doing the copy, while still responding (but slowly) to other operations.

    I found that the "copy" command did much better than a drag and drop operation, but still would have a problem eventually. Finally, I found that this was a known problem, and that to solve it, a dedicated MS employee had written a utility called "robocopy" the "robo" not being for "robot", but for "robust" (really, it said that!).

    Using that usually got the job done, much more slowly than it should have, but at least I didn't have to re-boot the machine daily to clear things up.

    Now that Gates is too busy with other things to take tours of the data center, really, Microsoft should do itself a favor and ditch the VMS underpinnings of Windows (some of which they have probably forgotten how to maintain) and build your nice GUI on top of BSD or something similar. That way you won't break your budget (in manpower and electricity) trying to match the Google server farms.

    Once that's done you will have the experience needed to do the same on the desktop. You will be doing the world, and yourselves a favor. Thanks in advance!
  • by downix (84795) on Tuesday October 16, 2007 @02:56PM (#20999929) Homepage
    This is a minor problem, absolutely rare event, occurs with next to no regu...

    **OUT OF MEMORY ERROR, SYSTEM HALT**
  • by Zero__Kelvin (151819) on Tuesday October 16, 2007 @03:02PM (#20999999) Homepage

    "It appears that, incredibly, Vista can run out of memory while copying files."
    That's not really the incredible part. What is incredible is that Vista can copy any files at all without buying a special cable [pricegrabber.com]! This is what you get when you hack Vista and just start copying files left and right without buying the cable. If you buy the cable, it doesn't run out of memory until after 16,500 files!
  • by failedlogic (627314) on Tuesday October 16, 2007 @04:31PM (#21001293)
    I expected this very problem to happen and have taken corrective measures. Simply, I use one large file for everything.

    Think about the innovation that is being created here. I can access all the spreadsheets I have ever created whilst updating my current webpage project, search for an e-mail archive and read the latest TPS Report Coversheet without changing files. It means I don't have to partition my hard drive. And I only have *one* file ever to backup.

    This has simplified my daily work to the point I fired all my IT staff. Thanks Microsoft!
  • by r_jensen11 (598210) on Tuesday October 16, 2007 @09:52PM (#21004859)
    Honestly, how can [Cancel or Allow] anyone co[Cancel or Allow]py that m[Cancel or Allow]any files anyway?

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