China Crafts Cyberweapons 326
MitmWatcher writes to mention that a recent report by the Department of Defense revealed that China is continuing to build up their cyberwarfare units and develop viruses. "'The PLA has established information warfare units to develop viruses to attack enemy computer systems and networks,' the annual DOD report on China's military warned. At the same, Chinese armed forces are developing ways to protect its own systems from an enemy attack, it said, echoing similar warnings made in previous years."
Sensible (Score:4, Insightful)
And yet... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:One word ... (Score:5, Insightful)
If "given enough eyeballs, all bugs are shallow", given enough eyeballs (and china has the most), money, military grade technology and bad intentions, every bugs is a potential weapon.
Re:OH NOES! (Score:5, Insightful)
Not a change. China holds too much of our debt, and is too crucial for our economy. Also, China historically is mostly interested in China. Kinda makes for a poor enemy.
Re:One word ... (Score:3, Insightful)
Don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing linux at all, but if my history serves me well here, linux gained a following among, shall we say, highly technical miscreants for a reason. It's powerful and able to be reconfigured to perform most any given task optimally.
Re:OH NOES! (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, but their definition of "China" includes Taiwan, Tibet, and the Spratly islands.
Re:And yet... (Score:5, Insightful)
Do you not think it better to trade with countries and develop strong relations with them? You have another strategy?
Re:One word ... (Score:3, Insightful)
Anyway, if there is any O.S. out there that cannot be compromised even by its own creator or by a determined enemy, we do not and will not know and, the most important thing, will not code.
Know how your stuff works!!! (Score:5, Insightful)
Honestly, I am so frustrated with this "its someone else's responsibility to make it work" and other finger pointing paradigms. Its MY stuff, I bought it with legal tender, and if I don't know how to maintain it, do I really have that much business having it?
If my dog made a mess, its obvious to me just what he did and where he did it. If termites made a mess, I can find and put back what they messed up. I feel exactly the same with my computing apparatus, and I highly resent efforts by others ( via DMCA like legal maneuvering ) to keep me ignorant of how my stuff works. It frustrates me to no end to have others make knowledge illegal, enforceable by police at gunpoint, only for the financial gain of blocking off alternative remedies I have for maintenance or customization needs.
Having ANY software vendor locking me in to their "support" is like having the contractor who built my house locking me in for anything I want to do to maintain or modify my house.
Not to say I would want to deprive him of his art of driving nails, but if he was too hard to get along with, or overprices himself, I strongly reserve what I feel is my right to pick up the hammer and saw and do it personally, if need be.
Ignorance is going to be the end of us (US).
Re:One word ... (Score:3, Insightful)
Haha. And the US does not do this ? (Score:5, Insightful)
"'The US has established information warfare units to develop viruses to attack enemy computer systems and networks,' the annual PLA Defense departement report on USA's military warned. At the same, US armed forces are developing ways to protect its own systems from an enemy attack, it said, echoing similar warnings made in previous years."
This leave me wondering with such a NON-news, what sort of propaganda is theUS trying to kick up. Are there commercial negociation starting soon with China ? Are they trying to put some pressure on China for a better rate ?
Re:OH NOES! (Score:3, Insightful)
Besides that a couple of years ago China's political leadership and military leadership both told the press that if they DID go to war with the U.S. they would immediately resort to nuclear weapons, because they know they couldn't win conventionally.
No, even if that's all bluster, it's still too much risk (especially the debt financing) as long as they don't try and take OUR piece of the oil/diamonds/whatever economists say we need today. They won't, I think they are willing to share with the U.S. for now, and probably for the foreseeable future, barring something like peak oil being imminent or something. Maybe then, but that's probably not likely in the near future.
Parent is not a troll... (Score:5, Insightful)
His comment is not particularly insightful, but his assertions are defendable:
Slashdot has reported on attacks apparently coming from within China (titan rain), and attempts by China to disable U.S. spy sats (ground based laser something or other).
The U.S. government continues to grant China 'Favored Trade Nation' status and facilitate the offshoring of work... esecially in manufacturing despite continued resistance from China to enforce safety/humanitarian regulations in those industries (something we require from our other top trading partners, though not from the poorer ones).
The U.S. government continually ignores international organizations such as Amnesty International who attempt to open dialogue about human rights records.
So now China is creating systems designed to realign the BOP on the net. How will the U.S. react? If it's track record holds true, then the U.S. will not react... which is really puzzling. True, if we have it, then others should not be prohibited... but that is now how we treat the non-chinas of the world.
The only disputable or inflamatory statement made by parent is that he actually feels sick about this.
Regards.
Re:Haha. And the US does not do this ? (Score:3, Insightful)
Hey, I can dream that there is intelligent life in Washington DC.
Seriously, this seems designed to provoke a reaction, and those are the two major groups who are not only the most likely targets in a cyberwar, but also the least secure against such an attack. Since nobody has ever successfully persuaded them to do the work needed - to the point that the Internet Czar has been a vacant position for many years - scare tactics would be a reasonable next step. (The last Internet Czar quit in frustration, precisely because none of the big players pay attention to good practices, no matter who is doing the talking.)
Re:Notable: SharedSource (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Notable: SharedSource (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:One word ... (Score:5, Insightful)
Probably not viruses, but worms, and remote-root exploits. If your local equivalent of NSA or GCHQ has found a really nasty bug in, let us say, Apache, which allows root control of the server, they'll quietly code up a worm to exploit it, and keep it in storage against the day they decide they need to knock down a whole bunch of systems.
However, the potential economic gain from owning Apache / MySQL systems is far greater than from owning IIS / SQL Server systems. The reason Windows-based servers are more commonly attacked isn't because they're more numerous, it's because they're more vulnerable. That, and a vulnerability affecting one generally affects all. That's not always the case with the more varied Linux systems, where exploits often depend on a very specific combination of software. So, if you're truly paranoid about informational attack, make sure your crucial systems are as secure as possible, and also varied in configuration, so that no single attack can take out all of them.
Good for the gander (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:not war just scare tactics (Score:3, Insightful)
In a shooting war, a DOS wouldn't work, certainly not against China. Filter everything out at the Great Firewall. Then the border routers might be saturated, but who wants to email the enemy? Everything inside China would still work fine.
My guess is they'll use these techniques not for aggressive warfare but for espionage. They don't want to bring down the USA. Why bite the hand that feeds you, why destroy the people who'll buy all the cheap plastic junk you can produce? But you certainly would want to spy on what they're doing. Certainly you'd like to know what their government's thinking. Certainly you'd like to know what the American companies who compete with Chinese companies are thinking.
China isn't an enemy of the USA in military terms, and isn't likely to be any time soon, but in business they're a deadly rival, and if they can gain an advantage by spying they'll do it. And I'm quite sure that Japan's doing the same. And if Britain and France and Germany aren't also at it I'd be absolutely amazed.
Crying Wolf (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:OH NOES! (Score:2, Insightful)
Taiwan is not part of China.
For more than 50 years, the following have all been true.
* Taiwan and China are controlled by different governments.
* The government in Taiwan does not answer in any way shape or form to the government in China.
* The government in China does not answer in any way shape or form to the government in Taiwan.
* Taiwan and China independently make agreements and treaties with other nations.
* Taiwan and China each print their own money.
* Taiwan and China each operate their own military.
* Taiwan and China each have their own head of state.
* Taiwan and China each issue their own travel documents, and do not accept each other's documents as domestically valid.
* No laws written in Taiwan are enforced in China.
* No laws written in China are enforced in Taiwan.
* No taxes collected in China are spent by Taiwan.
* No taxes collected in Taiwan are spent by China.
* China has a judiciary for which the highest level of appeal is in China and part of the government of China.
* Taiwan has a judiciary for which the highest level of appeal is in Taiwan and part of the government of Taiwan.
* All of these have been true for more than 50 years.
For 105 of the last 110 years, the following have all been true.
* Taiwan and China are controlled by different governments.
* The government in Taiwan does not answer in any way shape or form to the government in China.
* The government in China does not answer in any way shape or form to the government in Taiwan.
* Taiwan (or it's government in Japan) and China independently make agreements and treaties with other nations.
* Taiwan (or it's government in Japan)and China each print their own money.
* Taiwan (or it's government in Japan)and China each operate their own military.
* Taiwan (or it's government in Japan)and China each have their own head of state.
* Taiwan (or it's government in Japan)and China each issue their own travel documents, and do not accept each other's documents as domestically valid.
* No laws written in Taiwan are enforced in China.
* No laws written in China are enforced in Taiwan.
* No taxes collected in China are spent by Taiwan.
* No taxes collected in Taiwan are spent by China.
* China has a judiciary for which the highest level of appeal is in China and part of the government of China.
* Taiwan has a judiciary for which the highest level of appeal is in Japan or Taiwan and part of the government of Japan or Taiwan.
Re:And yet... (Score:4, Insightful)
Have you been off line for the past decade? Chinese attacks on US networks aren't some nebulous possibility; they've been going on for years. Quite a few articles about it have shown up right here on Slashdot.
The article is about investing in cyberwar attack and defense in general, not about launching specific attacks. Yes, Chinese hackers have been targeting US systems and UK systems (and other western nations) for some time. And I imagine that there are US and UK hackers targeting Chinese systems. This is not a declaration of war; this is just business as usual.
As for the US's military spending, that annoys me because it gets blown kicking over some dictator in the Middle East or chasing "terrorists" who kill less people than cars, instead of preparing for and dealing with real threats.
I don't disagree with any of that!not true (Score:1, Insightful)
Read what their own strategists and generals say. THEY consider the US a prime enemy. I mean, it isn't even hidden, go search around the net, you'll find a lot to read there.
and they have enough dollars now and have skimmed a trillion more in free R&d from the west, they are starting to not need the markets as much, and will be switching their exports to the parts of the world that have the most raw resources to trade with them. they just went on the record saying they "have enough dollars" just a couple of months ago now. Contemplate on that for awhile, what that really means.
This century will be known as the century of the resource wars. china aims to own all the resources, because they need them. We do not have-there aren't enough-of natural resources on the planet to support 8-15 billion people. It doesn't exist, and will not exist. We'll hit 8 soon, within 25 years, that's the tipping point after which the resource depletion falls radically, peakoil included. By 2015 or so most of the cheap to get at oil will start to decline, it already has in mexico and the north sea.. There's a host of other resources-minerals and metals-which are already in short supply just when 3 billion more people are stating to taste the beginnings of middle class living and need them, driving up demand.
That's why china has gone balls to the walls in Africa, outflanking the US and Europe bigtime, they *need* every bit of natural resources that continent has to offer. That's why the US has established a permanent beachhead on the ground in the middle east-yes, we are *never* pulling out, not for any reason, because of the oil and fresh water there.
Yes, we are going to fight over those resources, and it's going to get ugly.
Re:US military has one too: USAF Cyberspace Comman (Score:5, Insightful)
By developing cyber weapons, US is defending freedom everywhere.
By developing cyber defenses, China is destablising the world.
By having computers, Iran is sponsoring terrorism.
To be serious about it, how can anyone be surprised that a major country is concerned about cyber-security?
Red Flag Linux (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Notable: SharedSource (Score:3, Insightful)
That doesn't prove a conspiracy theory or anything, but it was probably a good idea anyway! Smart thinking, and I wish that the US government did the same thing. Red, White, and Blue Linux has a good ring to it.
Good thing the DoD is hiring America's best (Score:2, Insightful)
You are right (Score:3, Insightful)
TFA is about China. Don't try to read anything into my comment that isn't there. I can be enough of a controversial jerk all by myself, thanks.
Re:Yes? (Score:3, Insightful)
In part. Should the Red Army come storming west out of Russia towards Poland, the EU will surely be glad of NATO. These days, however, the Russians are more likely to apply pressure by cutting off the gas supply.
And isn't the free security it provides the continent the main reason that we get to hear these over-protected adolescent political ideas coming from there.
That's probably more because a generation of Europeans have grown up to whom ideas like 'nationalism' are kind of old-fashioned - they're what got us to kill each other off by the millions in the last century, and to be honest such tribalist notions seem rather childish. 'My country, right or wrong'? Please.
Not that I'm saying everyone's massively in favour of immediate establishment of a European federal republic, but that the boundaries of nationality have become blurred. We don't do flag-waving so much. We don't differentiate between Americans killed and Iraqis killed when deciding who to grieve for, so now that about twenty times as many Iraqis have died as Americans did on 9/11, the balance of sympathy is no longer very much in America's favour.
Re:Parent is not a troll... (Score:2, Insightful)
Are you thinking of China destroying one of their own satellites as a test [slashdot.org]? I don't blame you if you were, I hate the way any military (or economic, for that matter) advance by other nations is portrayed as an attack on the US. The lesson we should be taking from articles like this is that if the US has a capability, and China has a capability, you'd better expect that pretty soon Europe, Russia and everyone else will have it too. The smart thing to do is to adapt to changing conditions and maintain advantage; crying "Wooo China is Evil and hates our Freedoms" is not smart (just to be clear: complaining about tfa, not you).
You're right about the US government playing different rules with the Big Boys - I wish they wouldn't. It leads to situations like with North Korea and Iran where the best option is for the small country to acquire nuclear weapons just so the US government won't casually dick around with them.
Re:Know how your stuff works!!! (Score:3, Insightful)
The US is already spiraling to it's grave of idiocy. You have the moronic public in one hand, and the detached government with it's own agendas in the other. This is not going to happen, it has been happening for quite some time now, and is only getting worse.
People care more about Paris Hilton (the f***ing sl**bag) then politics. Politics are by no means a bad thing, but when only corporate entities show interest, problems arise.
Re:Parent is not a troll... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:OH NOES! (Score:2, Insightful)
But while China is a, Palestine is really a geographic area - so the comparison doesn't really fit.
A better analogy would be to say that "saying Taiwan is part of China is like saying Ireland is part of the UK". Taiwan was ruled by China for a while, just as Ireland was ruled by UK. China and UK both left huge cultural footprints (Chinese and English are spoken in Taiwan and Ireland, respectively). Taiwan and Ireland are both now separated from their former rulers and are independent.
Re:Know how your stuff works!!! (Score:2, Insightful)
If they wanna call it cyberwarfare... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:OH NOES! (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Notable: SharedSource (Score:2, Insightful)
Of more concern is the fact that all public binary copies of Windows were built by Microsoft. Just having the source doesn't mean it is identical to the release version or even buildable.