More Details on IE7 Tabs 350
GraemeDonaldson writes "Another member of the IE dev team, Tony Schreiner, has revealed details of IE7's tabbed browsing implementation including the fact that the user will retain control over how tabs are handled." From the post: "Regarding script, there is no "target='_tab'" feature or any direct access to tabs from script beyond what is available with multiple windows today. We are working on balancing the default behavior for whether a window opened from script opens as in a new frame or a tab. Currently, windows that have been customized, such as hiding a toolbar or making the window non-resizable, will default to opening in their own standalone frame, whereas ordinary pop-up windows will open in a new foreground tab. CTRL-clicking and middle-clicking links will open those links in a background tab."
middle-click (Score:3, Informative)
Re:middle-click (Score:5, Funny)
Re:middle-click (Score:4, Funny)
Re:middle-click (Score:3, Informative)
If you don't have a mouse with those features, just hold down Option when you click, and it'll do the same thing.
Re:middle-click (Score:2, Informative)
Re:middle-click (Score:2)
Guh, yes. Sorry. That's what I get for posting from a Windows PC at work while I have a headache. :)
Mod my original post down, this one up! ;)
Re:middle-click (Score:3, Funny)
Re:middle-click (Score:2, Funny)
Re:middle-click (Score:2, Informative)
Re:middle-click (Score:3, Informative)
Safari middle click, shift click == same as left click
Firefox Mac middle click, shift click == opens link in new window
On Safari and Firefox Mac:
* cmd-click == open link in new tab
* option-click == download link
On Firefox Win:
* ctrl-click == open link in new tab
* shift-click == download link
revised (Score:5, Informative)
On Safari and Firefox Mac:
* middle click, shift click == same as left click
* cmd-click == open link in new tab
* option-click == download link
On Firefox Win:
* ctrl-click == open link in new tab
* shift-click == download link
I just plugged in a mouse with three buttons that I haven't configured and tried.
Re:middle-click (Score:3, Informative)
Re:middle-click (Score:2)
I really wish that MS is going to copy not only usability features, but also the level of standard compliance (sorry if spelling's not all right) from its competitors. Would be nice, if they did nothing about security, though
Re:middle-click (Score:3, Informative)
You should see a "Preferance Name" named: middlemouse.contentLoadURL
Set it to "False"... now it won't load what's on the clipboard when you middle click on something other than a link...
Friedmud
sounds like... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:sounds like... (Score:2, Informative)
Re:sounds like... (Score:2, Offtopic)
Yes - but Firefox's market share is already limiting MS's options. Note how they say there will be no target=tab function.
Well they can't really, can they? Six years ago they would have re-written HTML without a care, added in any proprietary features they liked and declared that any rival product was broken. But now they have to ensure compatability.
MS going down.
Re:sounds like... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:sounds like... (Score:2)
Re:sounds like... (Score:2)
Firefox just 'feels' different. But I do use it, at work too. They're both very good but the trend is towards Firefox and that's where the new features will be focused.
Re:sounds like... (Score:2)
No extension I tryed impressed me at all, giving firefox no advantage over Mozilla. I don't really like the idea of extensions. To me, it's simply a way to drop support over some features. I hate the idea of having to select between multiple ext
Re:sounds like... (Score:5, Insightful)
I can imagine the uproar from people just like you if Microsoft actually followed your advice: "They're breaking standards! They introduced their own incompatible proprietary interface just to promote browser lock-in!"
Criticize them for their predatory business practices all you like, but this kind of shit is purely assinine.
no more ie7 tab news! (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:no more ie7 tab news! (Score:2)
This is perhaps a little OT but I do share the parent's frustration with so much focus on tabs in IE. I converted to Firefox on 1.0.2 and I've never looked back. I love it and only use IE (at home or work) for a few ActiveX-only sites. However, I could take or leave tabbed browsing. I stay with Firefox because of the wonderful extensions and better pop-up blocking.
Re:no more ie7 tab news! (Score:5, Insightful)
I mean, don't we already have great browsers with tabs? I'm using one right now. All this news about tabs in IE is a little like Ford announcing a new product: a gas-powered, horseless carriage which will convey any number up to four passengers at a high rate of speed and without all the hassle horses require!
"Yay," yells the crowd! "And it will run over standard roads, too, won't it?"
"Standard roads? Oh, now let's not get carried away, son! No, SPECIAL roads will be required because, um, because, oh! Because ours is a SPECIAL vehicle, so we need SPECIAL roads and we'll build them and charge a minimal toll."
"Fuck you!" yells the crowd! Microsoft won't lend full support to CSS2 because they claim it's a flawed specification, which, of course, is true, in the sense that revenue model for Microsoft was not built into it.
To hell with this. I'm going to switch from Firefox because IE finally got tabbed browsing? Yawn. I have Maxthon installed and I *still* use Firefox.
CSS? (Score:2)
I know their implementation is broken, but I thought they did that just cause they're dicks and not because it impacted their business plans.
Re:no more ie7 tab news! (Score:3, Informative)
Re:no more ie7 tab news! (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:no more ie7 tab news! (Score:2)
Re:no more ie7 tab news! (Score:2)
Haha! That's a good one. Oh what a character.
Re:no more ie7 tab news! (Score:2, Informative)
1. I'm a sad, sad person but I would rather see everyone else support IE's box model. It's proposed that CSS3 will allow a person to choose which box model they are using. (I'm all for web standards and test my sites on Windows, Linux and Mac and about every browser I can, but the wc3 box model sucks ass.) Or hell, you could even add something like total-width: to CSS. I don't care. Having no way to create one object with a % width that also has pa
Re:no more ie7 tab news! (Score:5, Informative)
basically, every time something loads in your browser, several headers are sent before the content, letting the browser know what to do with it. this is how it knows to display web pages in the viewport versus downloading compressed files. specifically, xhtml pages are to be served to the browser as application/xhtml+xml. now, for xhtml 1.0, you MAY serve them as the old html4.0 way (text/html), but you SHOULD use the newer way.
xhtml1.1 doesn't allow such a variance. they SHOULD be served as application/xhtml+xml (the alternative being application/xml which would be interpreted as a straight xml file)... except IE doesn't support such a mime type, thus making it IMPOSSIBLE to correctly serve a xhtml1.1 document to any IE browser. this has severly limited the ability for the web to transform to support documents within several namespaces (such as xhtml, mathml, svg all integrated into a single web page)
for more info, see http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml-media-types/ [w3.org]
stick that in your pipe and smoke it microsoft
Adblock? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Adblock? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Adblock? (Score:2)
Actually, I created mine as I went, used nothing complicated (wildcards but no regular expressions), have less than 20 rules, and I rarely see an ad. I have not tried to block text ads or small, out-of-the way ads; I'm really only after the annoying inline and banner ads.
Re:Adblock? (Score:2)
See here [mozdev.org].
Re:Adblock? (Score:2)
Re:Adblock? (Score:2)
They don't have to add Adblock - they only need a programming interface like Firefox's extensions so that Adblock can be ported to it.
Re:Adblock? (Score:2)
And they don't have to. Firefox doesn't include Adblock, but the ability to integrate custom extensions permitted someone to create it. Considering that it is the second-most popular extension on the mozilla site (over 900,000 downloads), it appears a few users know how to use it and they like it.
Re:Adblock? (Score:3, Insightful)
This argument has been made a million times on /. and no one ever wins :) For me, it is as simple as a few things. 1) I don't click on ads unless by accident. 2) If your ads are small and benign, I don't block them anyway. 3) If your revenue depends on some
Tabs in IE7? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Tabs in IE7? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Tabs in IE7? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Tabs in IE7? (Score:2, Interesting)
Now that I use them, I hate using plain IE.
Slight side issue, I keep on middle clicking on the little program tabs at the bottom of my screen and cursing when they don't open or close as expected.
Do any of the OS's offer middle button support for general things, or is it mainly restricted to browser functionality?
Re:Tabs in IE7? (Score:2)
You are correct (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Tabs in IE7? (Score:2)
Of course other products (even other MS products) use tabs, such as Excel, but in that case the tabs are keeping related items organized (as do tabbed dialogs). MS has been pushing an SDI interface for almost 10 years for discrete work items (Different documents in Word, for instance) and MDI for related items (code files in Visual
Do more in one window (Score:5, Funny)
1)Download Spyware
2)Download Adware
3)Download More Malware
4)Download your P0rn
5)Take a picture of yourself online.
Re:Do more in one window (Score:2)
I am happy Microsoft is interested in tabs. (Score:4, Funny)
Just think this time next year we will be griping about things like 'hijacked tabs' and such.
Cant run IE 7 even if i wanted too. (Score:5, Interesting)
This isnt a 'me' post, there are a *lot* of people and businesses that have no plans to goto XP ( or server 2003 ) in the near future.
Re:Cant run IE 7 even if i wanted too. (Score:2, Informative)
That's crap and you know it. Windows 2000 goes into extended support June 30th. They are still supporting it. Typical
Re:Cant run IE 7 even if i wanted too. (Score:4, Insightful)
Jeez,
* I have Win95 and they haven't given me any NTFS yet! * Winge.
* Ford haven't updated my 1969 Mustang with ABS, and airbags either. * Winge.
Do you not understand? - in commercial world OLD products aren't given new features. It doesn't matter whether you are talking software, cars, or washing machines.
Thats no reason to stop bitching about MS, is it?
Re:Cant run IE 7 even if i wanted too. (Score:3, Insightful)
Yeah, you're right. That's why Win2000 will only run the version of IE it came with in the first place.
Oh wait...
Re:Cant run IE 7 even if i wanted too. (Score:4, Funny)
So it's a "Me, too!" post?
w2k terminal server. (Score:2)
So did NT terminal server before that..
Re:Cant run IE 7 even if i wanted too. (Score:2)
Competition Fostering Innovation (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Competition Fostering Innovation (Score:2)
Wooo (Score:5, Funny)
Atleast they acknowledge it finally.
New features creating bugs in old features? (Score:5, Informative)
Since the tabs have been a function used in other web browsers for some time, the new mass deployment will give new reason to abuse users tabs by hijack-sites, hackers, and other undesirables. I know they say there are no commands to control tabs, but that doesn't mean they aren't tamper proof.
In esscence, will IE's incorporation of common features lead to bugs (or flaws) being found in other browsers.
Re:New features creating bugs in old features? (Score:2)
Most sites can't bear to lose the IE market share.
Re:New features creating bugs in old features? (Score:2)
tabbed browsing and window management (Score:4, Interesting)
My point is that "tabbed browsing" is not a god-like feature. It's just something that helps with a user's window management (the ability to be able to have a bunch of web pages open at one time without making a huge mess is NOT a web browser problem, it's an entire usability issue for the whole machine).
Yes, I know there are attempts at virtual desktops in Windows, but they all suck. I've tried them. They're either too slow, don't work properly (ie, they leave the minimized windows on the task bar the entire time...I don't get how thatworks).
Re:tabbed browsing and window management (Score:2)
Re:tabbed browsing and window management (Score:3, Interesting)
There is... tabs should be a feature of the window manager, not the application (unless it's a tabbed dialog).
On my desktop I use Ion WM, a tabbed window manager. Apps open full-screen or within a subdivision of the main window, providing tabs for navigation.
Ion WM works with some applications better than others. It would be nic
Re:tabbed browsing and window management (Score:2)
It's Shareware. They have a 30-day trial version, as well as a free 'lite' version.
Re:tabbed browsing and window management (Score:2)
Nvidia and ATI seems to ship virtual desktop managers with their full blown drivers, which are at least better than Microsoft's supplied hack. Used ATI's in the past, using NVidia's now - mostly works but has terrible rules for when to switch (yes, I do want to switch away from a busy desktop to read my mail) and just goes away sometimes, leaving me stranded on a virtual destkop.
Nothing has been nearly as good ("just works") as the 1990s and on implementions I'm used to under systems like Gnome. Amazing.
S
Re:tabbed browsing and window management (Score:3, Informative)
You must be thinking of the way Firefox and Safari do tabs. I suggest you try Opera's way of doing tabs before knocking the concept entirely. Opera actually treats each tab as its own window inside of the main pr
Monopoly (Score:5, Insightful)
M$ gets no respect from me.
Re:Monopoly (Score:3, Insightful)
So.. did FireFox 'steal' their ideas from Opera, then? They don't get your repsect, either?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not thrilled with MS's laziness with IE either, but 'stealing' tabs? Please. It's a standard feature for web browsing and has been for years. It'd be really dumb of MS NOT to include it. FireFox did a good job of, pardon the expression, lighting a fire under MS. Now the Fi
Good ol' M$ (Score:2, Interesting)
I'd like to see comparison notes (Score:2)
Rip Off! (Score:2, Insightful)
It also seems like they are quite sincere in catching up fully in the browser feature race. Now IE will have a pop-up blocker and tabs. Sounds a lot like we again have a nearly identical major feature set as a neat bulleted list for marketing. Plus, IE will forever have a faster start-up time (by cheating).
We need to stay
Re:Rip Off! (Score:2, Interesting)
Wait... are you saying Mozilla invented tabbed browsing? Surely you jest. What exactly is MS "ripping off" here?
Plus, IE will forever have a faster start-up time (by cheating)
Cheating how?
I'd prefer they fixed their rendering (Score:5, Interesting)
I know tabs are the killer that takes users from IE, but I'd prefer they work on their rendering. Their CSS doesn't work.
We make all our sites to work in Konqueror now, and only minor tweaking is needed for Firefox and safari. Easy enough, all are so close to the standard that there is little difficulty. IE doesn't work. We have to spend three times the effort to make it work in IE without breaking the rest. (We have chosen to not detect IE and give you a different page. I'm still not sure about the wisdom of that)
Typical Microsoft though, make it look nice, who cares if it works right so long as the users don't know.
Re:I'd prefer they fixed their rendering (Score:2)
I may not claim that our code is perfect when we first write it. We make it work in Konqueror first, but sometimes Konqueror is more forgiving of our mistakes. The tweaks needed for firefox and Safari are tiny, and they don't break Konqueror. You can argue that in many cases the the problems are out fault, not the browser. ( Don't read this as Konqueror being wrong, they are often areas where the standard doesn't say what should happen if you abuse things in that way)
IE is a different story. The t
Re:I'd prefer they fixed their rendering (Score:3, Insightful)
We know for a fact that some of our customers are Windows only, and others are unix (AIX). The former are either clueless, or very locked down - for either IE is the most likely choice. They will not install firefox for us. IE doesn't run on AIX, so we have to support firefox.
Half the developers prefer a Unix desktop, and run Konqueror/safari (one guy brings his own laptop cause we only supply x86), while the Windows people run firefox. We could drop Konqueror/safari, but once you have firefox thos
Innovative? No (Score:2, Funny)
"Did you hear about the new IE7? It has tabs, that's like, totally, new technology. Only Bill Gates could come up with something so genius!"
Why? (Score:2, Flamebait)
Why is a minor detail of a closed source, unhackable software product that isn't even released yet a front page story on slashdot?
M$ advertising wastes enough of our time already without giving it away.
This is quite clearly a marketing move by M$ to create mindshare for when the new M$IE version is released and I for one am sick of such manipulation.
---
Keep your options open!
Re:Why? (Score:2)
Let me guess.... (Score:2)
Wow.
But on an aside, will they be using that mentality and implementing them in a similar way as others, or will microsoft go their own way again as usual and set their own standard which they will try to force everyone to adhere to and firefox and the likes will be forced to implement something similar?
QUICK! Patent tabbed browsing (Score:2)
If they patent the "middle click to open a tab" and the "control click to open a tab" the OpenSource community can so own M$
what a great idea!! (Score:3, Insightful)
Hmm, how about ordinary pop up windows not opening AT ALL!?!?
I have just started using Firefox and I love how most pop-ups are blocked, and the ones that do happen to pop thru open in a new Background window so they are easily killed...
from TFA:
"We are working on balancing the default behavior for whether a window opened from script opens.."
How about let me choose what behavior I want from my browser instead of making all of these "defaults" which I will end up changing anyway because they are usually the less intuitive choice. sheesh.. i'll just stick with Firefox.
Side note, since changing to Firefox, my 4 home systems which my family uses (that used to fill up with spyware weekly) have been running spyware free now for 2 weeks. Thanks Mozilla...
Re:what a great idea!! (Score:2)
Otherwise, 2 or 3 times a day we have to send someone to the ki
Really really secure... the One Microsoft Way (Score:2)
Not about tabs, but... (Score:3, Insightful)
I know we'll never reach the point where 100% of code will "work on all browsers the first time, every time". But if IE's performance gets to the point where its quirkiness is no more of an issue than Safari's or Gecko's, then that'll be good enough for me. Right now IE probably adds 30% to my development time for any project, because the reality is things have to work acceptably well in IE.
Re:Not about tabs, but... (Score:4, Insightful)
just what IE needs (Score:2)
whereas ordinary pop-up windows will open in a new foreground tab
Learning from the original? (Score:2, Interesting)
The interesting thing is that I read this blog post yesterday, then I also ran across something on the Firefox tips page [mozilla.org]. It basically says that by setting bro
More interesting to me would be extensions (Score:2)
They have to support XPI extensions and have to be compatible with FireFox to become an option for me at this point. I don't care about browsers that don't support XPI extensions any-longer.
But I am biased, I have created 2 extensions myself: Russ Key [slashdot.org] and Leet Key [slashdot.org]. Unless I can set these a
10 to 1 (Score:3, Insightful)
(And if they could fix their damn stylesheet bugs: When you select 'ignore font sizes' it is supposed to ignore line height as well!)
The sad thing is (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Boooooooring! (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Boooooooring! (Score:2, Insightful)
At work, I use a host of applications that require IE. Some may have the opinion, "well, they must not be good apps". Hoever, there are plenty of high end applications that offer more functionality in IE than in Firefox or alternate browsers.
Re:Boooooooring! (Score:2)
I find many of the sites telling me to "upgrade" to IE (upgrade - wtf?) work just fine in FF or Konquerer once the user agent string is spoofed. Most of the "IE only" sites out there aren't doing anything that actually requires IE or windows...
IF you're still using IE for compatibility with these sites, try Konquerer [konquerer.org] it is extremely easy to spoof browsers with it...
Re:Boooooooring! (Score:3, Interesting)
I didn't want them until I had used them.
Re:Boooooooring! (Score:3, Insightful)
(Before anybody calls me an ungrateful twerp, I have contributed financially to the Mozilla foundation...)
Re:Tabbed browsing is news? (Score:2)
On that note, have you read the DaVinci code?