Consumerist Catches Geek Squad Stealing Porn

mekane8 writes "Consumer-advocate blog Consumerist ran a sting operation to catch a Best Buy Geek Squad member searching for and stealing media files from a customer's computer. The article includes the story with screen captures and a video of the technician's actions. From that piece: 'Reached for comment, Geek Squad CEO Robert Stephens expressed desire to launch an internal investigation and said, "If this is true, it's an isolated incident and grounds for termination of the Agent involved." This is not just an isolated incident, according to reports from Geek Squad insiders alleging that Geek Squad techs are stealing porn, images, and music from customer's computers in California, Texas, New Jersey, Virginia and elsewhere. Our sources say that some Geek Squad locations have a common computer set up where everyone dumps their plunder to share with the other technicians.' A related story from a former Geek Squad employee details the decline of the Geek Squad and Best Buy ethics in general."

The decline of ethics?????

Are you kidding me? You expect these people, who are the low-paid,
bottom-of-the-IT-food-chain to have ethics? Why are they any different
from a parking lot attendant or car wash guy? Because they're techies?
Don't kid yourself.

Heck, at two companies I've worked for (both big-name, publicly traded),
they've caught (and fired) one or more sysadmins reading other people's
email.

Sadly, The Ethical IT Guy is on the verge of becoming a quaint holdover
from the previous century.

Encrypt it, or lose it.

Re:The decline of ethics?????

Are you kidding me? You expect these people, who are the low-paid,
bottom-of-the-IT-food-chain to have ethics? Why are they any different
from a parking lot attendant or car wash guy? Because they're techies?
Don't kid yourself.

All persons should aspire to live their lives ethically. Rather than have those who do be the exception, it ought to be that those that don't are the exception.

Re:Then there is "entrapment".

I (occasionally) do support / repair / recovery for individuals. Never do I look into media like this, let alone copy it. It's not really that hard - just follow the golden rule. If I wouldn't want someone poking around my files, I do the same for them. Come on, people!

Cheers

Digging Versus Diagnosing

Never do I look into media like this, let alone copy it.

I agree, but note that "digging into" or even just glimpsing things can in some cases be part of the diagnosis and repair process ("I can't get this file to open and I really, really need it...")

When I was running in-house desktop support for a domain name registrar, I would tell my techs that we were like butlers--although we were pretty low on the food-chain, we were privy to a lot more information than many of the higher-ups. When you're setting up a projector or something for the big boss, you're bound to hear some things. When you're recovering files for the company attorney, you potentially will glimpse rather privileged stuff. Because technology has become so ubiquitous, computer technicians can be privy to stuff you would only tell your doctor, lawyer, or priest.

But those doctors, lawyers, and priests often have extensive ethical training (whether they follow it or not). Laws are in place to dictate what they can and can't share, and in some cases (child abuse, etc. depending on the state you live in) what they must share. These highly paid professionals are subject to malpractice claims or similar discipline for their activities, but they are well aware of these consequences in advance. Computer repair is skilled labor, but only barely, and so far there hasn't been a lot of recognition of just how "into" your life your computer technician might get, on purpose or just in the course of doing his or her job.

Note that I don't think the solution involves more laws or any sort of ethical training for technicians... rather, people should recognize that if they're going to use their computer to store (say) pictures of themselves in compromising situations, they should treat that computer the same way they would treat the actual physical pictures. Which is to say, don't give those things to a stranger! You need a technician you can trust.

Re:Then there is "entrapment".

It's not entrapment. Entrapment would be forcing them or coercing them to commit the crime, often with another illegal act. Prostitution sting operations, for example, are often very close to (or over the line of) entrapment, as the police plant streetwalkers (an illegal act) in order to catch another illegal act.

There is nothing like that here -- it's a computer with stuff on it, and their job is not to grab that stuff, it's to fix the computer. End of story.

How about a folder called "Music"? Can they steal from that because it's labeled as such?

Living ethically is a lot easier when you have enough ethics to avoid doing bad things for reasons better than "I might get caught."

What the ... ?

Entrapment would be forcing them or coercing them to commit the crime, often with another illegal act. Prostitution sting operations, for example, are often very close to (or over the line of) entrapment, as the police plant streetwalkers (an illegal act) in order to catch another illegal act.

What are you talking about?

The cops have women dress up like prostitutes dress and hang out in areas where prostitutes hang out.

What's "illegal" about that?

It's entrapment when the fake prostitute offers sex for money BEFORE the guy does. Because the guy MAY NOT have offered money for sex on his own.

Re:The decline of ethics?????

When the companies we work for dont act ethical, and are kept from acting ethical due to shareholder constraint, why should we care if we're not ethical?

Ah, the smell of fresh irony in the morning ( afternoon ).

You act ethically because you hold yourself accountable for your actions. I do a good job because I want to, because at the end of the day I feel good knowing I did the best I could. Not because if I work hard I'll get a "staff appreciation pin". Kudos from employers come and go ( or often are non-existant ).

I think that's the problem with this country: Too many people expect their managers to help them with their self-esteem. No one other than yourself should have any hand in that.

Re:The decline of ethics?????

Yes, it's called integrity. You stand for what you believe in, no matter what others do. Not to be confused with stubborness, which is standing for what you may or may not believe in simply to spite others.

Re:The decline of ethics?????

Forget about ethics, WTF was that guy doing stealing some other guys porn?

You're more likely to get yourself compatible organs for transplant by shooting some guy on the street, than finding porn that matches your own tastes on a random computer. Even if you get really lucky, there's bound to be more than a handful of images there that will turn you off at the wrong moment.

But then, who am I kidding... one can't really expect good taste from some random Geek Squad employee.

Re:The decline of ethics?????

Prying into the personal documents of your customers is not the least bit in a "grey area".

Re:The decline of ethics?????

Sharing customers personal photos isn't prying into private documents? An auto mechannic isn't likely to find photos you took of spousal abuse under your hood. Interesting ethics.

Re:The decline of ethics?????

Actually... it's more like going in for an oil change and when you get your car, you find out that they opened your trunk, opened your briefcase you had locked in the truck, and copied all your personal documents inside the briefcase. So you return to find your oil changed and your racy picture of your girlfriend up on the wall.

Re:The decline of ethics?????

"Insightful"?

Re:The decline of ethics?????

Umm, this is /., analogies that have to do with having racy pictures of your girlfriend will go over the heads of many people here. Thats especially true of those who think this is a gray area, as I'm guessing for them stealing pictures of someone's wife or girlfriend from their computer is probably the closest they will ever get to having a significant other.

This is also why you generally don't want to let the Geek Squad (or any other tech support company) kids into your house...

Re:The decline of ethics?????

They aren't prying into documents, they are copying media files. Its quite a big difference. It's not more of an invasion of privacy than the guy at the auto shop looking under the hood to see what you are running.

That's the most ridiculous thing I've heard in a while. They were paid to install iTunes. How does digging through various personal folders for image files and then copying pictures of bikini-clad women to a USB drive have anything fucking remotely related to do with "installing itunes"? Maybe you have some version of the iTunes installer that I'm missing out on.

Re:The decline of ethics?????

So does that mean I could examine every single file on your computer, including your e-mail, passwords, financial data, etc, by saying I'm looking for kiddie-porn? What if I come up with nothing at all? Does probable cause not matter? Does it matter that I'm also not a law enforcement agent, much less one with a search warrant?

Re:The decline of ethics?????

>by saying I'm looking for kiddie-porn?

Please don't call it kiddie-porn. It's child abuse.

Re:The decline of ethics?????

Please don't call it kiddie-porn. It's child abuse.

This may be unpopular, but how can numbers possibly be a significant enough threat to land one in prison? (A digital image file is a very large number.)

Yes, by all means, find the people who perpetrated the original crime of your term child abuse (or more emotionally, sexual assault of a defenseless child), and bring them to justice.

However, once a society makes owning a number a crime, it makes it very easy to "frame" people who hold unpopular-but-not-illegal beliefs: just push some child pornography into their computer, or easier, "find" some photos in their car.

This is very scary stuff. I am ashamed that we have made it illegal to have a number (or a photo), not out of any desire to obtain and retain said numbers or photos, but simply because the threat of abuse of this type of law is obvious and has already happened (witness RIAA witch hunts).

And the reason it's scary is because I truly care about the injured victims and want restitution. Going after third parties does not help, and creates a police state in which unpopular beliefs like mine can be silenced through selective evidence planting.

Similarly, felons should retain the right to vote, especially since having the wrong number can make you a felon.

Re:The decline of ethics?????

If there isn't demand, then there isn't supply. Meaning if noone seeks child porn then no child porn will be made. We can extend this to say that if we can reduce the demand for child porn, we can reduce the number of children abused to create it.

The only way to reduce the demand is to eliminate all humans.

We are driven by basic desires. One of these desires is to ensure that we are genetically related to the children that we spend our resources in rearing. Prior to contraception, the best way to achieve that was to impregnate a woman as soon as she is capable of being impregnated. Sooner is wasted energy (from a biological perspective, because she won't end up pregnant), and later runs the risk that someone else (the alpha male perhaps; we are tribal/herd-like still) has previously impregnated her and #2 will be rearing #1's child, not his own.

The problem with the above factual analysis is that women reach biologically reproductive age much sooner than the law allows them to be sexually active.

Yes, there are sickos out there who create and consume abuse of infants and 8-year-olds. That does not mean that we should, as a society, attempt to cause the greatest amount of collateral damage while bringing these abominations of life to justice!

My great-great-great-grandmother was legally married at 13. Our laws have changed; our bodies have not.

I hope that it is plain that nowhere in here am I defending those who abuse children, create child porn, or distribute and use it. I'm simply stating that creating laws that outlaw possession of anything (including drugs, books, and money[1]) makes it very easy to punish someone who hasn't actually committed a crime.

[1]--If you don't declare that you're taking more than $10,000 through an airport (perhaps only for international flights, I'm not positive), the police are allowed to take it. Similarly, the RICO laws allow them to plant some coke in your car, then confiscate the car and sell it at auction; even if you have the ability to defend yourself legally, the car is gone. Same goes with houses, yachts, and other large-value items; there have been documented cases of abuse of this law, so I'm again ashamed that we allow it to persist. It is blatantly unconstitutional, as are the drug laws; back in the 20's it took a Constitutional Amendment to outlaw alcohol, but we've allowed our rights to erode so much that we even outlawed the amino acid Tryptophan (naturally occurring in turkey, as we experience every Thanksgiving) for almost ten years [wikipedia.org] (1991 to 2002).

I agree that eliminating the demand would make the supply less profitable. That works with all commodities. But you've gotta change biological nature (not even human nature; all organisms want to maximize their resource expenditures on their own genes, and minimize said expenses on others' genes (yes, adoption and "altruism" are exceptions, but you'll generally find a self-serving motive for the latter, perhaps as simple as "feeling better", and the former is usually the path of last resort when unable to bear children of one's own, celebrities excepted)). And we haven't done such a good job at eliminating demand of any of the "vices" that we've made illegal; alcohol prohibition helped create the mafia, and current drug prohibition is dividing our populace and disenfranchising far more blacks than it does whites (by making drug crimes felonies, and selectively prosecuting, we are taking away their right to vote).

And, sure, forget that digital images are numbers; forget the idea of taking things at their lowest level. Let's look at the highest level: we are imprisoning people because they possess evidence that a crime was committed. They had nothing to do with the crime. Again, this scares me because it can be abused so easily. And since it's linked to the "won't somebody think of the children"

Re:The decline of ethics?????

Furthermore, if you're NOT going to treat finding child porn on someone as serious, then you've automatically given true offenders a plausible way out.

"If you're NOT going to treat finding a hammer on someone as serious, then you've automatically given skull crushers a plausible way out."

See how ridiculous it sounds when it isn't "about the children?"

The people who we should spending our tax law enforcement dollars on are the people who are actually and actively creating victims. Someone looking at a picture (or in possession of a hammer) is not doing anything to create a victim. It's when the child abuse happens, or the hammer is swung at a skull, that the crime takes place.

But I'm not defining the law, simply finding holes in its application. I apologize if I have offended you.

Re:The decline of ethics?????

Of course, on the other side of the coin, there's also the issue of a pedophile working for GeekSquad acquiring pictures and personal information on your children.

Re:The decline of ethics?????

I hate relativistic points of view. Some things are just not ethical. There are some things that could be quibbled over (grey areas, mostly), but this isn't something people should be debating. It is very widely consider wrong to steal stuff, kill people, invade people's privacy by looking through all their documents and photos without permission, etc. This is not something that needs to be up for debate.

As for the idea of "why can't we assume most people are nice", I generally do. But you still should be cautious for two reasons. First of all, despite what I'd like to believe a great many people just aren't ethical (and the constant stream of stuff from politicians, sports, stars, and other "role models" isn't helping).

Second, "God helps those who help themselves." Just because someone else shouldn't do something doesn't mean you shouldn't do something to try to prevent it. If the cross-walk sign says go you still check for cars right? Other people should stop, but they may not... so you look anyway. Whether you should have to or not, you protect yourself.

That people do this doesn't surprise me. That low paid people who are trained for 2 hours and given little oversight do this surprises me even less.

Re:The decline of ethics?????

Wow! Only 9 posts till Bush is dragged into this thread.

Bush's Law

Bush's Law: As an online discussion concerning ethical behavior grows longer, the probability of a mention of George W. Bush approaches one.

Re:Bush's Law

Bush's Law: As any online discussion grows longer, the probability of a mention of George W. Bush approaches one.

Fixed that for you.

Re:Bush's Law

Lewinsky Corollary: As soon as any online discussion mentions George W. Bush, any unfavorable actions attributed to him will be defended by stating "Clinton did it too."

Re:Bush's Law

Thus proving the George W Bush is as bad as a Nazi!

Ohh shit! Bugga!

Re:The decline of ethics?????

Although the leap to Bush is a bit tedious to make this many times in one day... he does have a point.

How do we prepare our youth for their adult lives when they see society's role models, government officials, sports superstars, members of the church, etc... committing breaches of ethics on a daily basis?

-Rick

Re:The decline of ethics?????

Although the leap to Bush is a bit tedious to make this many times in one day... he does have a point.
How do we prepare our youth for their adult lives...

How did your parents prepare you? This started long, long before Bush and Co.

"I did not have sex with that woman..."
"I looked on a lot of women with lust.."
"I am not a criminal..."

Re:The decline of ethics?????

I don't expect the car lot attendant to take my car for joyrides or the carwash guy (if you mean detailer) to steal whatever he finds inside.

It's not to say that it doesn't happen, but we don't have to pretend they are doing an ethical or good job.

BTW, I am an ethical IT guy. I don't want to see other people's stuff. I don't look for it either. But some people are so sloppy with their computers they do the equivalent of leaving porno mags or money in the driver's seat. Even then, I really don't care, as long as it isn't something clearly illegal which would put me in a bind I never wanted to be in. I don't think I'm rare. You are correct, you just won't be finding me working for Best Buy or other bottom of the barrel job. But I would imagine that there are enough ethical people starting out in such a job.

Re:The decline of ethics?????

I used to be in the photo business, before my company got bought by Ritz Cameras and driven into the dirt.
We had a policy about porn, if the printer doesn't want to print it, then you wait till someone else (willing) is in to do the work. If the printer is under 18 (we had a couple in my district, mostly on summer jobs) then you had to wait. If it was illegal (animals, etc.) then you better not have used your real name 'cause the cops are coming. If it was Child porn then we beat you up while the cops are on the way (really happened, cops didn't arrest our guy, but told him to hope the CP guy didn't realize he could press charges).

We had one issue where the girl looked a little young, so we gave the guy a chance to have her, with ID come in and she could pick up the photos. She showed up, and the ID was good (honestly didn't look fake), thing is, her hair was noticeably shorter in the pics and she had turned 18 only a week? before. we let her have the photos, for lack of proof that she was underage, but it made my stomach churn.
-nB

Re:The decline of ethics?????

Hypothetical question: If you had been working in an area where the "magic" age is 16 or 14, and someone asked you to develop a pic of a 17-year-old, would your stomach still churn?

Re:The decline of ethics?????

That's what I was thinking. If 18.00000001 years doesn't make your stomach churn, but 17.9999995 does, you're probably allowing legality to dictate how you feel about morality, rather than morals.

There has to be a line somewhere for the law, but in something like this, that extra couple of weeks should have no bearing whatsoever on one's personal feelings. It's irrelevant. Both bother you, or neither does.

Re:The decline of ethics?????

It could be worse: you could work in IT. I tell other parents I work as a piano player in a brothel in order to avoid the embarrassment.