How-Not-to-Hire-U.S.-Workers Law Firm Fires Back

theodp writes "Congress is now calling for a Dept. of Labor investigation into a Pittsburgh law firm after a video showing its attorneys advising employers how to game the immigration system was posted on YouTube. Cohen & Grigsby, the firm in question, issued a statement insisting their statements were commandeered and misused, but would not allow CBS to view the original video in its entirety. Cohen & Grigsby has also been advising employers since 2002 that they have nothing to fear if they keep employees in the dark about the existence of DOL-required H-1B Public Access Files."

their website

[squarefish (561836)]

has the tag line 'progressive law' all over the place. I would suggest replacing the word 'progressive' with 'breakin' the'

Re:their website

[Amiga Trombone (592952)]

has the tag line 'progressive law' all over the place. I would suggest replacing the word 'progressive' with 'breakin' the'

Call them up and express your displeasure...

Main office:
Pittsburgh, PA
11 Stanwix Street
15th Floor
Pittsburgh, PA 15222-1319
TEL: [phone]
FAX: [phone]

Re:their website

[Crizp (216129)]

Sitting atedesco reading email all the time, he never gets a spare moment.

Re:their website

[squarefish (561836)]

In the video they are talking about how to comply with the law, not break it.

No, they are teaching companies what to do to make it look like they are complying with the laws when they have no intention of following the spirit of the law itself.

They ARE breaking the letter of the law.

[SashaMan (263632)]

The argument, though, is that since the law states the employer must make a "good faith effort" to find a qualified US worker that they ARE breaking the letter of the law. When the whole objective of the process is to go through the motions with the end goal of not finding a qualified US worker (i.e. "we're going to make it look like you're looking for qualified applicants even though you have absolutely no plan of hiring a US worker"), it seems to me any rational person would not consider this a good faith effort.

Moot

[Colin Smith (2679)]

If the dollar continues to fall as it has over the last few years.

 

Re:Moot

[flyingfsck (986395)]

Yup, pretty soon Americans will be sneaking across the border into Mexico to find work...

Re:Moot

[Sj0 (472011)]

You laugh, but the US dollar really is in trouble. It's a short 4-5 cents before the Canadian dollar is above the US dollar, for the first time in 30 years. At the rate we're going(In 1992 the canadian dollar was 30 cents lower than the US dollar), our companies really will be hiring illegal American immigrants.

Actually, I love that thought. I want to hire one of you to be my maid.

"Mr. Smith, if you want to live in a country, you'd better learn how to write in our language. If I see ONE MORE "color", or "honor", or even a "gray" in my paperwork, I'm sending you back to your home country, where you can die in poverty. Do I make myself clear?"

Re:Moot

[magarity (164372)]

You laugh, but the US dollar really is in trouble. It's a short 4-5 cents before the Canadian dollar is above the US dollar
 
You must be an importer. For everyone who wants to export goods, or compete against imported goods, or sell stuff (and services) to foreign tourists, sell stuff to domestic tourists who decided not to go to more expensive other countries, etc, a low dollar against other currencies are a GOOD thing.
 
All those dollars (note: dollars, not debt instruments - that's another discussion) held by people in other countries can only do ONE THING in the long run: Come back to the USA and buy something from here. A low dollar is just going to *finally* reverse the flood of US dollars out of the country to the mideast oil producers and Chinese factory owners. It's about time.

Chickens. Home. Roost.

[davidwr (791652)]

If you are going to evade the spirit of the law, don't be surprised when the lawmakers take note.

Re:Chickens. Home. Roost.

[ErikZ (55491)]

Yeah. I'm sure the wrist-slapping will be unparalleled in human history.

Pectoral fin slapping!

[HornWumpus (783565)]

Bad land shark, no cocaine for you!

I think their punishment should be

[antifoidulus (807088)]

they should be forced to give their jobs to low paid H1B workers.

Shameful

[by Anonymous Coward]

This entire system is broken and should be scrapped. The government simply cannot enforce the restrictions in place. The H-1B is supposed to be a temp visa for positions that can't be filled domestically, but I see very few people using it that way. The sponsoring companies are using it as a means to keep labor costs down, and the visa holders seem to mostly be using it as a stepping stone to citizenship(the ones I know are). You should just accept this and roll the visa into a citizen-track visa, make it easy for visa holders to bring their families, make it easy for them to switch jobs, and then they won't have to worry about getting booted out of the country if they lose their job.

Re:Shameful

[squarefish (561836)]

the visa holders seem to mostly be using it as a stepping stone to citizenship
 
I don't think your sentiment is correct. I only know two people working here in the US on H-1B visas: one is from India and he's here for the short term to make money and send it home. He intends on permanently moving back to India, getting married, and settling down to raise a family in the next few years.

The other has been working in the US for over 15 years, has been married to a US citizen for 6 and has a 5 yo son with dual citizenship, and has no intention of becoming a US citizen because it's just too much of a pain in the ass and not worth it to him.
 
They are both honest people earing a living here for different reasons and purposes, but neither of them are doing so with the intent of citizenship or anything that comes close to what this law firm is trying to promote. I think the folks that get scooped in via a firm like this are the ones getting really screwed. The firm is doing this for the benefit of their clients, big companies, and they couldn't give a fuck about the H-1B worker at all.
 
Hopefully the government will actually do something about this. I hope this firm and their practices will help magnify the hypocrasy and stupidity of the current immigration debate.

Nothing new here, sadly

[SpinyNorman (33776)]

Talk to ANYBODY who has got a green card thru their company (assuming they were reasonably cognisent of the process) and you will discover the same thing - this is standard operating procedure, and not just an abuse by this specific law firm.

The way the system is set up, how can it be any other way... if a company has decided they want to get someone a green card, then of course they do whatever they can to achieve that. If they instead wanted to replace the person with a US worker then they'd be doing an honest job search, and NOT pursing a green card. Duh! The law says you have to advertize the job, so you put an ad for the job in the most obscure paper possible, with the job requirements so custom tailored to the person you are trying to get a green card for that no one else can qualify. I'm sure it works better than ever in recent years now that most people expect to find job openings online rather than in the local paper.

What's lame here is Congress pretending to give a crap (presumably just because this particular story/video has hit the press) and wanting to investigate this particular law firm. One has to wonder are they being investigated for breaking the law, or rather just for making Congress look bad by openly flaunting the law? If Congress really gave a crap they'd fix the broken system rather than go after a law firm doing nothing different than every other law firm hired to assist in this process.

Re:Nothing new here, sadly

[Wansu (846)]

... this is standard operating procedure, and not just an abuse by this specific law firm.

You're right. This has been going on since the inception of the H1-B program. In 1990, I watched a parade of US citizens interviewing where I worked for an engineering job opening later filled by an H1-B. The opening had also been posted to a bulletin board there with a salary that was about $10k less than a US citizen fresh out of engineering school would have made. Management was annoyed at having to jump through these hoops to obtain the cheap labor.

What is new here is the YouTube factor. The lawyer isn't really sorry his comments were commandeered. He's sorry he and the others got busted on YouTube. This film is an outrage, as is the H1-B program. It takes a film like this to cause a stink. Too bad we didn't have YouTube 17 years ago.

With apologies to Shakespeare

[Hognoxious (631665)]

First, let's outsource all the lawyers.

Boycott Dice.com and their censorship!

[by Anonymous Coward]

One of the earliest discussions of this video was on dice.com, and several people downloaded it before it got pulled. And they made certain that it was sent to the Programmer's Guild as well as Loub Dobbs, and other media outlets.

However, dice.com has initiated a censorship campaign against certain posters and postings against H1-B visas. It's not clear if this is approved by management, or it's the random act of a few moderators. What is clear is that requests for this to stop, and for clarification of Dice's censorship policy have been deleted as well.

Add to this Dice's postings of standard pro-H1B visa propaganda, and it's very clear that Dice is in full support of the H1-B visa program.

This is odd for a job board which seeks the best talent in the U.S., but I guess it's the H1-B shops which are paying Dice's bills.

So until this censorship and propaganda campaign ends, I am taking by business elsewhere. I urge others who seek new jobs to do the same.

Distasteful is not the same as Illegal

[rueger (210566)]

I have no reason to doubt that these lawyers keep their clients within the law, however much they might "game the system." That, after all, is why you hire a lawyer.

The job of the lawyer is to know the law inside out so that they can assist their client. The job of the legislator is to draft laws and regulations that have as few loopholes and weaknesses as possible.

If blame is to be assigned, it goes to the lawmakers.

Honestly though I suspect that most companies paying for this kind of advice are probably fooling themselves. Between the falling U.S. dollar, legal costs, and the inefficiencies associated with training and replacing short term or contract employees they likely aren't saving enough money to make it worthwhile.

Just because it looks cheap doesn't mean it really saves you money.

get real

[nanosquid (1074949)]

What the lawyer is talking about is a green card application, usually for someone who has already worked many years at a company and lived and paid taxes in the US. There is a formal requirement that the company post a job ad. Of course, companies don't want any applicants for that job ad: they already have someone for that job that they have invested a lot of time and money in. Do you seriously think they are going to send that guy home based on someone who sends in a resume? And companies are likely paying that guy competitively because once they get the green card, he could leave immediately.

I've seen these requirements for formal job postings in non-immigration contexts as well, and they never work. If finding qualified, good applicants were as simple as posting a job ad and collecting resumes, headhunters and hiring bounties would be such a booming business.

RTFA

[nanosquid (1074949)]

These lawyers are talking about job ads as part of the green card application process. That is, the goal of the process is to get a current or future employee a green card. As soon as the employee gets the green card, they can quit and work somewhere else if they aren't being paid competitively.

So, why don't companies want responses to these ads? Because they already know that they aren't going to get any good responses to a newspaper ad. How do they know that? Because they are already running lots of ads all over the place. Any response they are going to get is just going to hold up the green card application unnecessarily.

These companies are trying to do the right thing--getting their foreign employees green cards. They don't deserve to be dragged through the mud for it.

Re:DELETE THE BORDER

[larry bagina (561269)]

open borders and a welfare state are mutually exclusive.

Not going to happen in America

[symbolset (646467)]

Forcing lawyers to do honest work is prohibited by the clause in the Constitution that prohibits cruel and unusual punishment.

Re:USians feel they're entined to everything

[Seumas (6865)]

How are Americans more entitled to an American job from an American company that gets American tax breaks and largely serves the American consumer-base? Hmm.. Gee, I don't know. And don't you dare act like every other country isn't extremely protectionist of their jobs and workforce.

Further, capitalism is fine. However, while the average corporation can seek out labor all over the planet and simply put up an office or hire workers from the cheapest areas, the American citizen does not have such a pool to choose from - neither in terms of employment or cost of living.

A corporation can pick from the entire planet and decide to invest in an area where they can pay experienced professionals as much in salary as the average American citizen pays in rent. While the corporation and the American citizen may be based in America, the corporation is not constrained by the dynamics, labor supply and financial situation of this country. The worker, however, is. We don't have a choice. Milk is about $3.85 per gallon. Period. I can't go somewhere and buy it for a nickel a gallon. And if you want to live close enough to these corporations to work for them, you're usually looking at more expensive living. You will pay $800 or $1,000 or $2,000 for a one bedroom apartment or half a million bucks for a small house. Period. Unless you plan on commuting 1500 miles from some hill in the midwest out to the west coast every morning.

Then, to add insult to injury, this shoddy form of sham-capitalism isn't enough for them. They want to compound it by telling us that Americans are not plentiful enough or educated enough. Now, if there is a shortage of milk or gas, I have to pay more money for it. If there is a shortage of experienced labor in this country, corporations simply artificially adjust the value of these workers by lobbying government to let them bring in more employees from overseas or to simply move a chunk of their own operations overseas.

People try to suggest that Americans are racist or xenophobic when all they are doing is showing concern for their well-being and their careers. They have a right to do so. Especially when - on top of the imbalanced system - we have underhanded corporations and services as in this article working to drill us even further into the ground.