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Microsoft Programming Businesses Education IT Technology

Gates On Future of CS Education 563

Posted by Zonk from the we-need-more-women-too dept.
lilrowdy18 writes "In an interesting article from Eweek, Microsoft chairman and chief software architect Bill Gates talks about how the lack of spending in research and development is 'kind of a crime'. He also talks about future problems that are facing the computer industry including outsourcing and the speed of upcoming processors." From the article: "Microsoft taps both native-born talent and foreign talent, but Gates said he is frustrated that more U.S. students are not going into computer science. 'The fastest growing major is physical education,' he said. 'The Chinese are going to wake up and say we missed this opportunity,' he joked."
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Gates On Future of CS Education More

Gates On Future of CS Education

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  • Donation (Score:3, Funny)

    by fembots ( 753724 ) on Tuesday July 19, 2005 @04:19PM (#13107504) Homepage
    It wasn't mentioned in the article, but Bill also donated 2 million copies of Visual Basic .NET to all universities in US, more copies are available on request.

    The software shall help easing both the finance and skill shortage.

    • Re:Donation (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Prof. Pi ( 199260 )
      Bill also donated 2 million copies of Visual Basic .NET to all universities in US

      Wasn't giving software to someone for free supposed to be anti-American or something?

      • Re:Donation (Score:3, Funny)

        by 222 ( 551054 )
        Not if it requires a Windows PC to work.

      • Re:Donation (Score:5, Insightful)

        by ucblockhead ( 63650 ) on Tuesday July 19, 2005 @04:42PM (#13107764) Homepage Journal
        Free? Free? You think he donated it "for free"? Hardly. He donated something that "cost" $500 million or more, and thus saved him lots on Microsoft Corporate taxes.

        • Re:Donation (Score:3, Informative)

          by man_of_mr_e ( 217855 )
          You need to study the tax code a little better.

          You don't get the retail vail of a donation you produce as a tax write off. You can only claim the COGS (Cost of goods sold)

        • Re:Donation (Score:3, Interesting)

          by RonnyJ ( 651856 )
          He donated something that "cost" $500 million or more, and thus saved him lots on Microsoft Corporate taxes.

          You make it sound as if his main motive was to save himself some of the cost of taxes - considering the amount of monetary donations he's made to charity, this seems rather unlikely.

    • Visual Basic? isn't that exasperating the Skill shortage? ;)
      • Yes, the Skill Shortage is so exasperated with VB coders its stress levels are through the roof and all the stress is exacerbating its angina, heart and dictionary failure are imminent.

    • Re:Donation (Score:3, Insightful)

      by monopole ( 44023 )
      Let's see, 2 million copies of a limited highly proprietary language which is a developmental dead end (remember .NET will not be the basis for Longhorn). All those VB script kiddies will most certianly ease the skill shortage in basic CS research.

      The donation just happens to lock the users into the donor's OS and development system. What a surprise!

      In the same spirit I donate an infinite number of copies of Python, an infinite number of copies of PERL, an infinite number of copies of GCC and an infinite

    • Re:Donation (Score:3, Insightful)

      by hungrygrue ( 872970 )
      Giving schools an incentive to teach VB rather than C/C++, Python, or even ****ing Java. Great, that will really improve the state of CS education. :-(

  • It doesn't help... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by whitefael ( 305869 ) on Tuesday July 19, 2005 @04:21PM (#13107521) Homepage
    when every other news article talks about jobs being outsourced and the layoffs that are happening all over the place, most recently at HP.
    • Yeah. For an American high school graduate, joining the Army's smarter that getting a CS degree.

    • I have to admit I'm with Gates on this one. At least you have to admit that his sentiments are better than Carly's attitude ("Everything important has already been invented;" didn't somebody say that around 1899?). The US and Silicon Valley survive as long as they are creating bleeding-edge technology. We can't compete on price because we're big fat Americans. But there will always be people out there willing to pay a premium for the best technology, and as long as we have that, then we survive.

      And so says

      • Re:It doesn't help... (Score:5, Insightful)

        by whitefael ( 305869 ) on Tuesday July 19, 2005 @05:14PM (#13108097) Homepage
        When I first saw the story, I was upset (hence my previous post), but as I think about it a little more objectively, maybe this is a good thing. So getting a job in the IT and software industry is tough, people are being laid off, and jobs are being outsourced. Maybe at this point, the people that are majoring in computer science REALLY want to do it. The hi-tech industry needs people that really have the desire to work in that field, not a bunch of people going into a major because it's the next big money-maker (MCSE certification anyone?).

        • Re:It doesn't help... (Score:5, Insightful)

          by EastCoastSurfer ( 310758 ) on Tuesday July 19, 2005 @05:46PM (#13108382)
          Maybe at this point, the people that are majoring in computer science REALLY want to do it.

          Exacly. When I was in college getting my CS degree (graduated in '99) many people were in the program because that's where they could make money. The ones I still know about are struggling for work, but I haven't had any issues staying employed. Work hard and with a passion and people will notice and things will work out okay.

  • A lack of spending on R&D? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Richard Steiner ( 1585 ) * <rsteiner@visi.com> on Tuesday July 19, 2005 @04:21PM (#13107526) Homepage Journal
    Maybe that's because Microsoft has demonstrated that a technology company doesn't have to engage in any original work at all in order to be wildly successful, at least in the current US legal climate...

    • Re:A lack of spending on R&D? (Score:5, Funny)

      by Rei ( 128717 ) on Tuesday July 19, 2005 @04:37PM (#13107708) Homepage
      The title should have been "Billionaire College Dropout Accountant Encourages Students To Go To College, Major In Computer Science"

      • Re:A lack of spending on R&D? (Score:5, Funny)

        by multiplexo ( 27356 ) on Tuesday July 19, 2005 @05:22PM (#13108172) Journal
        The title should have been "Billionaire College Dropout Accountant Encourages Students To Go To College, Major In Computer Science"

        No kidding, you could have a similar headline for Steve Jobs. I loved seeing this story in the Seattle Times [seattletimes.com] this morning. The headline was "Gates Stresses Need for Qualified CS Grads", the headline underneath it was "Hewlett-Packard to cut 14,500 jobs in restructuring plan". Do they put these things together deliberately to fuck with us, or is it just an accident?

    • Before badmouthing MS R&D... perhaps you should look into a bit of what they do: http://research.microsoft.com/ [microsoft.com].
      • Amen to that! MS is putting their money where their mouth is - MSR has an annual budget of $7 billion and dream jobs for well qualified researchers who can basically do what they want without worrying about converting research into products in the near term.
      • Before badmouthing MS R&D... perhaps you should look into a bit of what they do: http://research.microsoft.com/ [microsoft.com].

        That doesn't prove Microsoft R&D is worth anything. All it proves is that their R&D section has a pretty website.

        It seems like there are always apologists willing to defend Microsoft, or any other big company that makes shitty products and uses slick marketing to crush its better competitors, with the cry, "Look how much money they spend on $X!" So what? If $X sucks, it doesn't
      • Anyone can spend money, and I'm quite aware of the many things that they're supposedly working on, but why aren't we seeing any real benefit in the Microsoft products that we're actually using on a day-to-day basis?

        It's one thing to work on pie-in-the-sky research (and I have no problem with that), but quite another to do that while also continuing to maintain one of the most problematic computing platforms in history in an almost unchanged state for over a decade.

        Some of the money might be better spent r

  • You mean.. (Score:3, Funny)

    by FLAGGR ( 800770 ) on Tuesday July 19, 2005 @04:22PM (#13107533)
    The lack of spending in windows [security/stability/logo's and icons/etc] R&D

    Zing!

  • Ironic... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by PhysicsPhil ( 880677 ) on Tuesday July 19, 2005 @04:22PM (#13107538)
    ...how the same corporations that complain taxes are too high also whine about the government not spending taxes to help their industry.
  • Let's see here:

    1) Four years of one of the most time intensive majors in colleges

    2) Going through Microsoft's dehumanizing interview process

    3) Getting free soda in exchange for 80 hour work weeks at minimum wage

    4) Getting fired at age 28 for being too old

    versus...

    Well, anything actually.
    • You left out

      5) Anything I create will be stolen by a monopoly excercising its monopoly power

      Bill Gates and Microsoft have given the computer industry a bad name in the US, and students don't want to play their game.

    • Re:I was considering majoring in CS, but... (Score:4, Informative)

      by Synbiosis ( 726818 ) on Tuesday July 19, 2005 @04:38PM (#13107717)
      2) Going through Microsoft's dehumanizing interview process

      I don't know where you got that one from. Sure, they ask strange questions, but they treat you quite well when you're interviewing.

      I've had two friends interview for internships with Microsoft, and a third who got a job there after college. All three of them made it a point to brag about how well MS treated them at the interviews (despite the bizarre questions asked), and how well they treat their employees.
    • Let's see here:

      1) Four years of one of the most time intensive majors in colleges

      Well, at least 10 years ago, the degree was meaningless. I knew a guy who was a highschool drop out, over 40 years old with a shitty work history. His wife was the breadwinner, he stayed home fucking around with the computers. He lied to everyone about having a home buisness, some years he would get lucky and set up a network for an office and make $20,000, the next year he would make $0.

      When the MSCE was first offe

      • Re:Screw the degree, get a certificate... (Score:3, Funny)

        by Anonymous Coward
        Wow, that certainly convinced me. A loser friend of yours was able to abuse the system and captitalize on a job market that would do anything for a warm body at a time when we were steamrolling towards a huge bubble burst in an industry. He is now back to where he was, leeching off his wife, with no future and no accomplishments besides defrauding stupid companies.

        On second though, I think I'll keep my CS degree.

    • Nice FUD but... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by RingDev ( 879105 ) on Tuesday July 19, 2005 @04:43PM (#13107781) Homepage Journal
      1) Four years of one of the most time intensive majors in colleges

      I actually thought my CS classes were the easy ones. It was that damn Lit class that gave me hell.

      2) Going through Microsoft's dehumanizing interview process

      There are (e-gahds!) other companies to work for you know. You don't HAVE to be evil.

      3) Getting free soda in exchange for 80 hour work weeks at minimum wage I don't get free soda, and I only put in 5 hours of overtime a week to run nightly processes. I get paid a good deal more then minimum wage.

      4) Getting fired at age 28 for being too old

      I'm only 26, so I can't say for sure, but my Boss (a former mainframe coder) is in his 50s, my team lead is in his late 30s and another developer on the team is in his mid 40s.

      Just wanted to shed some light on the ACTUAL life.

      -Rick

    • Re:I was considering majoring in CS, but... (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Monkelectric ( 546685 ) <slashdot.monkelectric@com> on Tuesday July 19, 2005 @04:43PM (#13107787)
      No shit! Businesses are busy screaming, "NO! NO! We don't hire those kind of people!" And then they wonder why nobody is entering the field?

      It took me *3 years* to find my first programming job after college (graduated just after 9/11)... Now I know my experience was one of the worst, but it happened. With the worries about outsourcing, the szhizophrenic (sp?) attitudes of companies ... If I had known then what I know now, I wouldn't have gone to CS either. The average programmer makes no more than the average teacher, and teachers have better pensions, don't have to go through insanely difficult curriculum, don't have to worry about outsourcing, technology trends, the global economy ... Maybe I'll take the cbest and teach CS.

      • I hate doing "me too" posts, but this is exactly what I went through. I graduated during the worst time when the unemployment level was sky high. So did my friends in non-tech majors. Although I love what I do for living, it becomes obvious that the market is somewhere else right now. Not a biggie, let's create a new bubble and retire rich :)

      • Maybe I'll take the cbest and teach CS.

        Be careful. I know people who have tried to become teachers. The kids will try to kill you, and you will have almost no way to discipline them. It takes a special kind of person to teach in the US public schools today, more of a prison guard than a professor.
    • Let's see here:

      1) Four years of one of the most time intensive majors in colleges

      2) Going through Microsoft's dehumanizing interview process

      3) Getting free soda in exchange for 80 hour work weeks at minimum wage

      4) Getting fired at age 28 for being too old

      Funny. I work at Microsoft as an intern, and I didn't find their interview process dehumanizing. It was mostly tests to see if I could solve problems, design as part of a team, and write clean, bug-free code. Sure it was a pain to fly to Redmond,

  • Wrong tense, Mr. Gates. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Tackhead ( 54550 ) on Tuesday July 19, 2005 @04:23PM (#13107543)
    > Gates said he is frustrated that more U.S. students are not going into computer science. 'The fastest growing major is physical education,' he said. 'The Chinese are going to wake up and say we missed this opportunity,' he joked."

    One correction, Mr. Gates.

    It is we in North America who are asleep, and who will one day wake up and have to admit that we missed the opportunity.

    The Chinese are wide awake.

  • MS doesn't care about academic research (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Whafro ( 193881 ) on Tuesday July 19, 2005 @04:23PM (#13107544) Homepage
    When academics and computer scientists create "standards" as a result of substantive research, MSFT chooses to ignore them. If MSFT hasn't come up with something themselves, or hasn't had a key role in financing/advising the development, then they don't use the standard. If they don't use the standard, then it never actually becomes a de facto standard, due to their monopolistic hold in the computing world.

    Who wants to produce research that is dead before it's ever published? Especially for those who see research as a way of improving the world in some (even small) way, it seems that CS research in many directions may not be the way to go...

  • Lip Service (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Sounds like an excuse for outsourcing. It has been my experience that more people (in the US) go into CS than can obtain a career in CS. I think it is incorrect that we are missing the boat. The boat has already sailed for cheaper employment waters.

  • the answer lies with him... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by advocate_one ( 662832 ) on Tuesday July 19, 2005 @04:23PM (#13107548)
    if he's complaining about the lack of CS students, then perhaps he should pay graduates more, stop outsourcing to India and relying on H1b visas... then people might just believe there's a future in CS... he and several others like him are the root cause of the problem...

    • Re:the answer lies with him... (Score:5, Interesting)

      by John Seminal ( 698722 ) on Tuesday July 19, 2005 @04:51PM (#13107861) Journal
      if he's complaining about the lack of CS students, then perhaps he should pay graduates more, stop outsourcing to India and relying on H1b visas... then people might just believe there's a future in CS... he and several others like him are the root cause of the problem...

      You hit the nail on the head. When I was in college, my roomate who was a buisness major switched to computer science when he saw an article in US News and World Report which said that computer science majors would start at $40,000 a year. The only major that started higher was chemical engineering. Buisness was somewhere in the middle at $29,000 or so, with art at the bottom with $18,500.

      Now people are avoiding computer science because there is no growth seen. There is percieved shrinkage in the USA. HP lays off 11,000. Sun fired 4,000 a few years ago. Who wants to work in an industry where they have no job security?

      It is not like someone can get a degree in computer science, get a job at GE starting at $40,000, and work there the next 30 years and retire with a pension. Most comp sci people I know work on a contract basis. One year at a single company is considered a long time by some people. Then there is the pain in the ass of finding a new gig.

      How does someone plan buying a house under those conditions? What do you tell the bank? Umm... I have had 5 different contracts the past 3 years.

      Then there is the question of sanity. Who will live longer. They comp sci guy, who works 60 hour weeks, under stress, then even when he has no work, he is stressed looking for work. I see an early death due to heart attack. Or is it better to be a PE teacher, making $35,000 a year and spending time outdoors lobbing softballs and playing tennis?

      The problem the comp sci students are going to face is the same problem the auto workers are facing. Companies don't give a crap about americans, even though the companies started in the USA, the CEO and board of directors are American, and they sell their product to Americans. They will move their factories and tech support and anything they can to Mexico or India or anywhere they can find cheap labor. The CEO's are pretty much trators and they are crapping on the USA.

    • Re:the answer lies with him... (Score:5, Informative)

      by Monkelectric ( 546685 ) <slashdot.monkelectric@com> on Tuesday July 19, 2005 @04:55PM (#13107890)
      Very good. Now here's the *REASON* he complains about there being too many programmers when he uses h1b's etc etc:

      Bill Gates *WANTS* the market of programmers to be flooded. The glut of CS students during the dot com boom was fabulous for software companies who were hiring programmers for 35k a year *AFTER THE BUST*. The economy is starting to heat up again (until oil prices kill us, a story for another day) and wages are starting to pick up again, and companies don't want to pay them. Believe me, bill gates does nothing but serve himself, if he says we need more programmers, we most surely don't.

      • Same thing I was thinking. Bill isn't complaining that there aren't enough folks in CS; he's complaining that the market isn't so flooded that he can pay people in the United States the same wages he pays people in India.

        Bill isn't stupid, and it's becoming rather apparent that outsourcing to Third World nations isn't working out nearly as well as people thought it would. What he needs are American workers he can pay peanuts, and he can't have that if the market isn't glutted enough to drive people to de
        • Bill isn't stupid, and it's becoming rather apparent that outsourcing to Third World nations isn't working out nearly as well as people thought it would.

          Agreed. Do you recall when the president of HP said (paraphrasing), "The problem isn't that American engineers aren't highly skilled...Is that highly skilled american engineers won't work for minimum wage."

  • Why get a CS degree? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Why get a degree in a field that already has an oversupply of workers, and in addition is continuing to outsource even more of those jobs that are left?

    American high schoolers might be stupid, but they're not that stupid.

  • The Reason Why...Simple (Score:5, Insightful)

    by varmittang ( 849469 ) on Tuesday July 19, 2005 @04:24PM (#13107555)
    Is because we believe/afraid that we wont have a job when we get out of college due to all the out sourcing going on in IT. People don't want to spend all their money on a great education, to not have chance at a job when they graduate. So they look into other majors, while possibly doing some code on the side. Simple as that.

    • Re:The Reason Why...Simple (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Otter ( 3800 )
      If you love computers, and have a reasonable aptitude for programming, don't let the "OUTSOURCING!!!" panic scare you away from the field. The idea that software jobs are all going to disappear is as foolish as the previous notion that a high school dropout with a Cisco cert is set for life. The 90's aren't coming back (although you'll have to pry my Zubaz off my cold dead legs!) but that hardly means there won't be decent jobs.

      Believe me -- with the dummies with new CS Masters degrees I see getting hired,

      • I think you're right on the target. It is impossible to outsource everything. Cubicle-only warriors who used to sit, get specs, code and ship the code somewhere are going to be gone. However, there is always consulting, security, management and other things that you can use to make money. Knowledge is capital. Use it wisely.

  • He's right (Score:2, Interesting)

    by cached ( 801963 )
    Ladies and gentlemen, he might finally have a good point. At my current school, one that has approximately 2000 students, the minimum requirement of 12 students per class to keep it active was not met for ANY computer class (web/graphic design excluded), so they will ALL be canceled next year. This WILL (excluding the debt, corruption, etc) be the reason for the US becoming a second or third world nation, unless this trend is reversed.

  • if microsoft can't find staff... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by geoff lane ( 93738 ) on Tuesday July 19, 2005 @04:24PM (#13107563)
    ... perhaps it is because the modern CS students have just spent three years learning about operating systems by using open source operating systems?

    Once upon a time you could make real money by working for a startup Microsoft. Today, it's just another job and all the cool ideas are coming out of Google.
    • The people who are going into the field for the paycheck are smart enough to realize that they'll be the first ones cut to reduce costs (and their jobs shipped off to India/China).

      The ones going into the field because they love it are trying for Google because that's where you'll be on the cutting edge.

      The sad thing is that we are losing the CS majors because they will be off-shored.

  • The difference is (Score:5, Informative)

    by overshoot ( 39700 ) on Tuesday July 19, 2005 @04:25PM (#13107580)
    Microsoft and others are hiring in China.

    In the USA, they're not only laying off IT and CS staff, they're even letting H1-B visas go unused, not that that's keeping Bill and others from lobbying to raise the H1-B cap anyway.

    • Umm. Wheres you your links backing up your claims?

    • Re:The difference is (Score:3, Interesting)

      by targo ( 409974 )
      In the USA, they're not only laying off IT and CS staff, they're even letting H1-B visas go unused, not that that's keeping Bill and others from lobbying to raise the H1-B cap anyway.

      Don't lie. Microsoft has literally thousands of vacancies (http://members.microsoft.com/careers/search/defa u lt.aspx [microsoft.com]) in the US, and they pay decent money.
      I am leading a team of developers myself, and I have an open position, you just have to have some coding/design/intellectual skills above the regular Slashdot wannabe leve
  • The answer is simple, people saw the .com bust and young people are leary. I think that and the technology sector's woes since are just keeping them at bay.

  • Ironic... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by blahplusplus ( 757119 ) on Tuesday July 19, 2005 @04:26PM (#13107590)
    Gee, this is like the pot calling the kettle black, how many jobs as Mr. Gates company outsourced I wonder?

    The guy is just playing the governments of the world off one another to benefit his own company. Not really news.

  • No Jokes Here (Score:5, Interesting)

    by $criptah ( 467422 ) on Tuesday July 19, 2005 @04:26PM (#13107591) Homepage

    How many of your Comp. Sci. peers got jobs before graduating from college? I know that only two of my fellow students did. How many business, accounting, education, and other students get jobs? Again, I don't know about your experience, but all my friends who chose not to major in Comp. Sci. did quite well and landed nice jobs BEFORE they got their diplomas.

    Supply and demand. This is a no-fucking-brainer for students who go to college in order to get jobs and move on with their careers. Last time I checked, nobody wants to spend -- or waste -- for years of school in order to end up unemployed. There are tons of articles that describe newly minted CEOS who decide to hire and developm in India or China because it is cheaper. Kids read that and decide not to fall into the same hole as the previous generation.

    Sorry Bill, not every students gets to be one of the wealthiest people on the planet. Software was hot in 80s. Now it is a freaking commodity. Let's move on.

  • Right... (Score:3, Funny)

    by cyrix ( 882273 ) on Tuesday July 19, 2005 @04:29PM (#13107623)
    Gates talking about the problems facing the computer industry is like listening to Dom Deluise talk about the benefits of dieting.
  • The fastest growing major is physical education

    If this is true, I am truly apalled.

    Business Administration or Marketing I can take, but P.E. ?!?

    Mother of God, we are doomed...

  • Microsoft taps both native-born talent and foreign talent

    They've probably got a "one-tap" patent.

    And yet for all this talent that MS taps, and all this research that MS does... they've STILL to come up with one major IT break-through.
  • Why not lead by example then? Have you sponsored a Summer of Code [google.com]? How about releasing even some source code to everyone so they can learn about your software, make improvements and become an integral part of the process?

  • I don't get it... (Score:2, Insightful)

    by jvollmer ( 456588 )
    We're supposed to take College guidance advice
    from a dropout?

    If it's not Consolidated Lint, It's just fuzz!

  • Bill Gates wants to have his cake and eat it too (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Teckla ( 630646 ) on Tuesday July 19, 2005 @04:34PM (#13107673)

    From TFA:

    Microsoft taps both native-born talent and foreign talent, but Gates said he is frustrated that more U.S. students are not going into computer science.

    This is the same Bill Gates that wants to completely eliminate H-1B quotas (that is, allow an unlimited number of foreign software developers in). This is the same Bill Gates that is constructing a huge, sprawling Microsoft Campus in India.

    You want more students going into Computer Science, Bill? Then quit telling American students, through your actions, that there won't be any software development jobs left for them in America by the time they graduate!

    He's just another F'ing "I want cheap labor at the expense of American workers" prick. Excuse my French.

    • He's just another F'ing "I want cheap labor at the expense of American workers" prick.

      Well I would have put it a little nicer, but that's not a bad description of it.

      There's a shortage of workers. And a high demand for those workers, so you've gotta pay them a premium (or someone else will).

      Bill can't get his cheap worker bees unless the supply grows, so that they're a dime a dozen. The less he has to pay his programmers and computer scientists, the more he can line his and other shareholders' pockets w
  • . . . Bill Gates talks about how the lack of spending in research and development is 'kind of a crime'.

    I think that our lack of investment in the humanities is a greater crime. While our nation focuses like a laser beam on computer technology, funding for other important aspects of life declines. Many students in all levels of education know how to operate computers (and some receive advanced training, as is the thrust of the article) but cannot express themselves musically or write down their thoughts c

    • Ok, I will troll a bit... (Score:5, Informative)

      by orzetto ( 545509 ) on Tuesday July 19, 2005 @05:40PM (#13108333)
      the most technologically advanced nation in the world

      I thought too that the US were a long way ahead in technology. I came for a conference in Austin, TX last November, and on the way back I stayed for a week in NY. I was disappointed in some ways:

      • How comes that I can't bloody call Europe from a payphone in Chicago airport? And where are the credit-card phones? It's an international airport, not a café! It's not that I did not try, and I tried the week later too. Yes, I know you use 011 instead of 00. It finally worked on Broadway by the 50th street.
      • Why doesn't my damn GSM mobile work? What's the fuss with multiple standards over here? (Yes, my phone is a triple band and was supposed to work in NY and Chicago, though not Austin). Damn, these work in Thailand, why don't they work in the US?
      • The conference in Austin was AIChE [aiche.org] 2004. Number of participants: about 5,000. Number of complimentary internet connections: 0. Luckily there was a nice café at 6th/Congress with free access to Macs.
      • My Diners stopped working for a couple of days, and the Visa was dead. It would work early in the morning.
      • (This one is getting flamed)The statue of Liberty is small!!! I can't believe it's taller than the one in my town [antaresarona.com].
      • Why are still stuck in the stone, pound and foot age?
      • Times square: it's not square to begin with, and it's ludicrously small. It looks so big in the images from new year's eve...

      Ok, ok, I have to compensate with some positive points...

      • Ok, there are people who speak other language than English. I expected worse, on the plane to New York I was sitting beside a girl who completely by chance spoke Italian (and not bad either!).
      • Ellis Island more than compensated for Liberty Island. The museum there was cool, even if I did not find my grandfather's brother in the archives.
      • Food is nowhere near terrible as in England, and because of Mexico food in Austin was actually quite good. Que vivan los migrantes!
      • I happened to hear the Veteran's Day speech at the Texas capitol. Sorry for the people governed by these beasts, but for me it was an experience to see the closest thing to a Nazi rally I will ever witness (I hope).
      • Prospect park in NY rules!
      • Now, when I see "Venner for livet" (Friends) or "Sex og singelliv" (Sex and the city) I actually recognize the places!

      Anyway, back to the point: the US are not as advanced as many, Americans and not, think they are. At least not in the level of technology the citizens are exposed to, I have definitely seen enough to deem it unlikely that I was victim of a long series of unlucky coincidences.

  • Microsoft was a company which put emphasis on developers and development.

    But this year I saw Microsoft lobbying in Brussels. Unintelligent Braggarts of different flavours. Joanthan Zuck fo ACT, Hugo Lueders of CompTIA. Microsoft did an intellectual insult on developers by their lobbying scum. Microsoft even hired right wing radicals such as TechCentralStation.

    Microsoft was once a high IQ charm company, now intelligent people are offended.

    Lobbying for software patents means neglecting developers, develope
  • is because kids nowadays are taught that wishing makes it so, that you can never be 100% right about anything, that there's no way to really know reality, that nobody has any control over anything, and that public opinion is more important than facts.

    Faced with this, why NOT go into some soft social science, where you can graduate, and go work for some policy making body, who can govern the skeleton of America's scientific establishment
    ? Take the short-cut!
  • Gates went on to say "What you're really teaching about design is pretty much the same information you used to teach 30 years ago...

    The next time someone calls Gates a technical genius, remember this quote.

  • PE? Makes sense. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Geckoman ( 44653 ) on Tuesday July 19, 2005 @04:40PM (#13107747)

    Who gets paid millions of dollars to play games?
    Athletes and coaches

    Who gets put on the covers of countless magazines?
    Athletes and coaches

    Who gets multimillion dollar contract buy-outs when they fail to perform?
    Athletes and coaches

    Who gets invited on Leno and Letterman?
    Athletes and coaches

    Who gets multimillion dollar endorsement deals?
    Athletes and coaches

    Who gets put on posters and tacked to the walls of thousands of teenagers?
    Athletes and coaches

    Who gets worshipped and forgiven for all sins for being successful?
    Athletes and coaches

    Who gets teased mercilessly throughout their school years?
    Science geeks and nerds

    Who gets fired to raise stock prices even after successful work?
    Science geeks and nerds

    Who gets taunted and degraded by society at large?
    Science geeks and nerds

    Who gets underpaid for long hours and little security?
    Science geeks and nerds

    Who gets to spend 4-8 years in school in a difficult, demanding major with perceived diminishing job opportunities?
    Science geeks and nerds

    The perception is that you have to be born with certain talents and abilities to become a great athlete, but you can be trained to be a coach (even a mediocre one) and at least be in that field, so something fun, and bask in the reflected glory of the truly talented. Plus, we're not outsourcing football yet.

    Yeah, I can't imagine why so many people are choosing PE over CS.

  • I'd say lack of spending on primary education is an even bigger crime. Also, the shortfall the VA has had [westchestercbj.com] is something that borders on the criminal. But, of course, more spending in those areas wouldn't benefit Microsoft...

  • 'The fastest growing major is physical education,' (Score:3, Interesting)

    by kesuki ( 321456 ) on Tuesday July 19, 2005 @04:47PM (#13107824) Journal
    So maybe we'll be dethroned as having The most overweight teens [about.com] because of the global obesity problem [who.int]

    well, what would you rather have a country of obese programmers who die of heart disease at age 40? or some of our smarter more talented people going into teaching kids how to exercise and diet properly, so they can lead longer heathier lives.

    I guess gates would rather have the former... and rely on computers to design the medical technology to replace a 'frail' human cardiovascular system ith a 'easily replacable' mechanical system..

  • it's not CS majors (Score:3, Insightful)

    by amichalo ( 132545 ) on Tuesday July 19, 2005 @04:49PM (#13107842)
    Gates says "The fastest growing major is physical education" but we all know that it isn't CS majors jumping ship to do jumping jacks.

  • Physical Education is nething to laugh at. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by rolfwind ( 528248 ) on Tuesday July 19, 2005 @05:16PM (#13108118)
    Don't laugh at Physical Education Mr. Gates. With our obesity rates skyrocketing and diabetes II coming already to teenagers, this epidemic will be much more costly than simply having a few less Microsoft Certifieds around.

    In highschool, my gym teacher Mr. Brynard taught a better nutrition (more practical and teenage oriented) than the middle school's dietician and also was instrumental in deciding to that the vending machines in school serve no soda. I'm not saying that this is the case everytime - but the ones I met were generally very well self-motivated.

    I think they'll do more good than an extra programmer or two.

    And Mr. Gates also falls into the trap thinking that more programmers = more productivy. I can't really envision Mr. Brynard as the type of guy sitting down and programming for eight hours a day just because it bought more money. How happy and productive are those people who do it for the money anyway?

    There's more to the world than computers - let's remember that.

  • Fortune says lack of PhDs is the problem (Score:3, Interesting)

    by WillAffleckUW ( 858324 ) on Tuesday July 19, 2005 @05:21PM (#13108168) Homepage Journal
    And that CS degrees is just one of many fields in which the USA is underinvesting.

    Not only that, but they think that China does get it, and is kicking sand in our faces.

    Gates, of course, cares mostly about his area of expertise.

    However, even though we as a society need way more higher education, I don't believe we need a Tablet [as Gates says all students do in the article] nor do I agree that the xBox or xBox 360 is sexy - my first degree was in Marketing/Sales and I'm a geek who owns an xBox and a GameCube.

  • not a new problem ... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by constantnormal ( 512494 ) on Tuesday July 19, 2005 @05:24PM (#13108197)
    Computer Science has never been a "popular" major in the USofA, and has suffered right along with other technical majors, like engineering and the sciences, when the additional disincentives of age discrimination and pummeling the graduates with the horde of pointy-haired-managers for which American business has become a haven.

    Go check out a copy of The Peter Principle [amazon.com] (copyright 1969 -- pick up a used copy from Amazon) to confirm that the current decrepit state of our managerial skilz is nothing new.

    When the nation's leaders stop rewarding managerial ineptitude and punishing technical workers, we might have a chance of turning this around. You can count on other nations (China, anyone?) not making this particular blunder.

    If it offers hope to anyone, in today's WSJ (subscription required) [wsj.com] there is a piece advocating outsourcing of our outrageously overpaid top management to bring excessive top management compensation under control. It's the 7th most-emailed article today. But it will take a long time after such practices begin (assuming they ever begin) before they filter down through the corporate structure and clueless incompetence is no longer rewarded.

  • At the risk of sounding like a broken record... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by plopez ( 54068 ) on Tuesday July 19, 2005 @09:47PM (#13110185) Journal
    The 2 points I always make about these sorts of articles are:

    1) Good riddance. I hope this shakes out some of the riff-raff that jumped on the band wagon in the late 90's, the "I've got l337 VB skillz u owe me 72k/yr." crowd. Only people who are serious about their profession and passionate about it need apply.

    2) The entire focus of technology is automation. If you need a huge army of programmers and IT people to support your software, your software is crap. billg does not seem to get this. His is attacking a cost center, like most managers, by looking for a cheap source of commodity resources (code monkeys, sysapes). Rather than building a product which requires minimal support. I twigged on this in the 90's when M$ announced that they wanted to produce 100k newly minted MC*E's. Rather than improve the software, reduce the cost of supporting it.

    This is a harsh opinion, I know.

  • Christ, How Hypocritical Can You Get! (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Master of Transhuman ( 597628 ) on Wednesday July 20, 2005 @12:38AM (#13111004) Homepage
    "how the lack of spending in research and development is 'kind of a crime'."

    Which kind of crime is that, Bill?

    When you dump tens of billions on a one-time stock prop scheme instead of investing it in R&D?

    When you donate $20 billion to a "foundation" so your father can use it to control companies you can't because the SEC won't let you?

    When you use your monopoly influence to attract development partners than walk off with their code and try to drive them into bankruptcy like you did that cell phone software company?

    When you threaten to fire 8,000 people in a country that doesn't support your software patents initiative?

    Read my lips, Bill.

    Fuck you.

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