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Centrino Mobile Equals Desktop Pentium 4 in Speed
Posted by
CowboyNeal
on Sat Jan 22, 2005 09:19 AM
from the six-on-one-hand dept.
from the six-on-one-hand dept.
Spy Handler writes "On Wednesday during the launch of its new Sonoma Centrino Mobile, Intel put on a demonstration running a video game on a laptop. It matched the performance of a high-end Pentium 4 desktop running the same game, declared Intel. The contenders were a laptop sporting a 2.13 GHz Pentium M processor, 1GB RAM, and the Alviso chipset versus a desktop with a 3.6 GHz Pentium 4 with hyperthreading, 1GB RAM, and the Grantsdale chipset. Is this a testament to how far the Pentium Mobile architecture has come, or a sad comment on the clockspeed-pushing design of the Pentium 4?"
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Both! (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent isn't a troll. (Score:2, Interesting)
It's a sad comment on how damned long the clockspeed-pushing went on for.
Re:Both! (Score:4, Interesting)
That's not to say that it is competitive in every domain, but for gaming it is tough to beat. And, yes, many modern games do scale with CPU power.
Parent
Not CPU-limited. (Score:5, Informative)
I think it's a testament to the fact that whatever game they were running doesn't bottleneck at the CPU. Most video games are not CPU-limited beyond a GHz or two.
Re:Not CPU-limited. (Score:5, Funny)
also. what kind of idiot they got in marketing? the whole comparision is just saying "look, our top of the line desktop chip is shit for gaming!"(not totally true even).
Parent
Re:Not CPU-limited. (Score:2)
Benchmark time (Score:5, Interesting)
Its time to do what we used to do back in 1990 before the Pentium arrived, run benchmarks to determine how fast the machine is.
The only interesting thing about using a game as a benchmark is if the thing will run. Its not unusual to find that a game simply does not run on a laptop.
Parent
Re:Not CPU-limited. (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
Not enough information (Score:5, Insightful)
Not enough info for a statement (Score:5, Interesting)
No, it's probably only a testament on not showing enough info about the benchmark system/conditions to provide any useful technical data, but only marketing data.
Who know? Maybe the game was simply framerate limited by the similar integrated graphics chipset.
I'm not saying that the Pentium M isn't fast, or as fast as a desktop P4; only that probably that demo don't prove that.
Just my 2c.
Bye!
Benchmarks, but need fast disks (Score:2)
http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/55276
support Intel pretty well.
If you don't get the German, don't worry, it's all Geek to me.
Now please give me fast disks on a laptop. One gig on mine plays away as a RAMdrive (heavy P'shop load) and it runs way too hot for comfort.
Re:Benchmarks, but need fast disks (Score:2)
So this really seems to be more than a marketing trick.
I wonder if they'll merge the desktop and mobile brachens sometime. Afterall power consumption on desktop systems really is out of all proportion to speed. Since I'm quite sure that people won't buy slower systems (even if they don't need faster ones) it's rather obvious that they'll have to use more effici
Re:Not enough info for a statement (Score:3, Insightful)
What about "both"?
Or, of course, as the parent points out, perhaps the bottleneck is somewhere completely different. Maybe the processor speed is less important than something else (gasp!).
Personally, I'm much more excited by increases in network, disk and bus bandwidth than CPU. I don't spend much time waiting for my CPU; I spend time waiting for data to ge
Drivers (Score:4, Insightful)
I am sure that they got together with NVidia and came up with some crazy optimized drivers (read: cheating).
Sounds like Intel is ready to write off the P4 as done for, and is putting all of thier eggs in the Centrino basket until the launch of their dual-core chips...
So... (Score:2)
shhhocked, sir, I am shhhocked!! (Score:2, Funny)
Performance of Pentium 4... (Score:5, Interesting)
I had the "pleasure" of performing a heavy number crunching on a P4 laptop. Luckily it was winter and one of the rooms in my house is unheated. Leaving the laptop there (temp. about +3C) with bottom lifted off the floor by some books to allow free access to the built-in fan prevented it from entering thermal throttling mode and allowed it to run at full speed...
It's a sad comment all right (Score:5, Interesting)
I've been a loyal intel user since the Pentium 90 came out, but after building several cheap and stable AMD systems for friends and family I took the plunge myself, and I'm more than happy.
Re:It's a sad comment all right (Score:2)
For a long time now, CPUs have not been the bottleneck in a typical computer setup. Even more so with laptops.
Generally, you'll get much better ROI if you upgrade the following components/subsystems in this order:
Disk latency
Disk throughput
Memory throughput
Memory latency
This all depends on what you use your system for, of course. But for the average computer performing a mix of home/office tasks, this is roughly where things need to g
Re:It's a sad comment all right (Score:4, Informative)
I don't know about P4, but on AMD systems this allows for the CPU fan to completely stop when the CPU is idle (on desktop systems).
Parent
Why are we still married to clock speed? (Score:5, Insightful)
Intel and AMD are in the awkward position of needing to create a market for new processors in a world where a 1Ghz processor will do most office tasks brilliantly. They pushed speed, speed and more speed for so long that the average consumer doesn't give a whit about HyperThreading or anything else. Tech heads and researchers and universities are different, but is that enough to support to very large chip manufacturers forever?
Re:Why are we still married to clock speed? (Score:2)
In any case, outside the P-M, Athlons completely blow Intel out of the water, in performance, price and power consumption. I'd love to get a P-M based
Re:Why are we still married to clock speed? (Score:2)
Don't worry, Microsoft has that covered... when Longhorn (eventually) comes out! ;p
This position reminds me of how once-quality consumer electronics companies like Sony found out they had to start producing crap that breaks down quickly, or else people would wait like 15 years before purchasing their products again.
Testaments, schmestaments (Score:4, Insightful)
Or perhaps a testament to how fill-rate limited the game was? Honestly, what was the game? Doom 3? Or Monkey Isnald 3? It makes a difference.
Size? Weight? Battery Life? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Size? Weight? Battery Life? (Score:4, Informative)
Parent
Answer (Score:2, Funny)
Yes.
Pentium M will catch up ONLY when FSB goes up (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Pentium M will catch up ONLY when FSB goes up (Score:4, Insightful)
Thank you... So far, I consider this the only "insightful" comment in this entire topic.
In terms of raw performance, though, Anand and Tom (of which you mention the latter) have both done "real world" tests that don't include the GPU as the bottlenext, and found that, for heavily CPU-bound tasks (such as compression, which also eats memory but mostly just CPU), the Pentium-M (Dothan, in particular) holds its own against both the Prescott (P4) and the Athlon 64. On some tasks any of those three would take the lead, though the Dothan does only take 2nd or 3rd most of the time (but still beats the Athlon XP and the Northwood P4).
For second best, and less than a quarter of the power consumption (less than a tenth when idle) for comparable performance, I fully plan to get a Pentium M as my next desktop upgrade. I care about raw performance, but I also care about my electric bill and about having something that sounds like a jet engine three feet from my head (lower power = less cooling needed = quieter).
PLUS they do the stupid thing here and put in DDR-2 which does little for performance but increases system costs.
Strange opinion... Yes, it increases the system cost a tad, but consider it from two POVs...First, since the Centrino line primarily targets laptops, 2.5V vs 1.8V means significantly lower power consumption (and correspondingly less need for active cooling, making battery life even better). And second - DDR2 picks up where DDR stops, FSB-wise... You could just as well say the original P4s did nothing for performance over the best-of-breed PIIIs, but after three core gens and a doubling of the clock speed, no one would now claim a "modern" PIII will outperform a modern P4.
Parent
Re:Pentium M will catch up ONLY when FSB goes up (Score:4, Interesting)
Parent
Re:Pentium M will catch up ONLY when FSB goes up (Score:3, Insightful)
No. Or at least, not proveably so.
Intel has released very few architectural details of the Centrino line. From what little the public actually knows about it, it does seem more similar to a PIII than a P4, but by all (credible) accounts, it uses a complete core redesign, optimized based on different criteria than most desktop CPUs. As a result, it consumes a reasonable amount of power, and the performance seems like almost an unintended perk.
Re:Pentium M will catch up ONLY when FSB goes up (Score:3, Informative)
Well presumably DDR-2 will decrease in price eventually. At the moment cost is certainly an issue. But don't forget that DDR2 is lower voltage and saves power, which for a mobile chipset is extremely important. Whether it makes sense for a desktop chipset is another question. I just hope Aopen continues to release desktop motherboards for the Pentium M. It would be nice to see one based on this
This is noise (Score:2, Interesting)
Scientific and Engineering computing (Score:3, Interesting)
In the past few years clock speed has become much less important than memory architecture in determining how fast the simulations run. Of current architectures P4 stinks and is comprehensively stuffed by Opteron. However, PM even beats Opteron. Our fastest machine for OrcaFlex is a DELL Centrino notebook! This just edges out our top of the range Opteron workstation.
Has anyone else out there seen anything similar with other applications?
Pentium M is not 64 bit (Score:3, Insightful)
A benchmark to show that intel might be right. (Score:4, Informative)
Here is a link to a benchmark [gamepc.com] that show that intel might be right.
This benchmark shows that a Pentium M 2.3 (Yes it is overclocked) is as fast as a AMD Athlon64 FX-53 (2.4 GHz) in many games
Re:A benchmark to show that intel might be right. (Score:3, Insightful)
Oh, the P-M can't handle 64 bit?
That's too bad..
It's the pipeline, stupid! (Score:3, Insightful)
The Pentium III has veen embarassing the Pentium 4 as long as the Pentium 4 has been shipping. This is merely another act in the continuing Greek Tragedy that is the Pentium 4.
Re:P-M desktop (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:What's the difference? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:What's the difference? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:When will they compare Pentium M vs 4? (Score:5, Informative)
FYI, Centrino is the same thing as Pentium M. Centrino just means you bought a laptop with a Pentium M processor and Intel's wireless chipset. bundled together. Why, oh why does Intel insist on giving everything some crappy marketing name and confusing customers?
Parent
Re:When will they compare Pentium M vs 4? (Score:2)
The Pention M is using much less power than P4 for comparable performance, and thus has much less cooling requirements. I for one won't mind cheaper and more available Pentium M with
That's the point (Score:2)
So much, that
- It hurts their sale of Pentium M processor, because customer will prefere Pentium 4 "Because there's more GHz inside", as Intel has taught them,
- It will hurt them more when the next generation of desktop processors won't have a pipeline as deep as the current one, and will have less GHz for the same effective speed. (Intel said they wanted
Re:AAAAAAAAAARERRGGGHHH (Score:2, Informative)
It's a shame all the benchmarks disagree. Have a look at Benchmark [gamepc.com]
This benchmark also shows that a Pentium M 2.3 (Yes it is overclocked) is as fast as a AMD Athlon64 FX-53 (2.4 GHz)
Re:AAAAAAAAAARERRGGGHHH (Score:2)
Why don't you look up the various articles posted on
Re:AAAAAAAAAARERRGGGHHH (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:try this (Score:3, Informative)
I tried it with 3DMark2003. Turning off HT makes a very small increase in performance.
Re:laptop weight (Score:3, Funny)
...cos I'm too busy complaining about perpetually sore shoulders. I sl
Re:This means nothing (Score:3, Informative)
Unless you mean that the the Pentium M has no hyperthreading, which I suppose is a valid point, as hyperthreading is about all the P4 has going for it right now.