Slashdot is powered by your submissions, so send in your scoop

 



Forgot your password?
typodupeerror
×
Government United States IT

What Happened When a Washington County Tried a 32-Hour Workweek? (cnn.com) 123

On a small network of islands north of Seattle, Washington, San Juan County just completed its first full year of 32-hour workweeks, reports CNN.

And Tuesday the county released a report touting "a host of positive outcomes — from recruiting to retention to employee happiness — and a cost savings of more than $975,000 compared to what the county would have paid if it met the union's pay increase demands." The county said the 32-hour workweek has attracted a host of new talent: Applications have spiked 85.5% and open positions are being filled 23.75% faster, while more employees are staying in their jobs — separation (employees quitting or retiring) dropped by 48%. And 84% of employees said their work-life balance was better. "This is meeting many of the goals that we set out to do when we implemented it," County Manager Jessica Hudson said. said, noting the county is looking for opportunities to expand the initiative...

Departments across San Juan County have implemented the 32-hour workweek differently, some staggering staffing to maintain their previous availability to the public while others have shortened schedules to be open just four days a week... "I tell people, you're not going to see things change from your perspective," said Joe Ingman, a park manager in the county. "Offices are going to stay open, bathrooms are going to get cleaned, grass is going to get mowed." His department adjusted schedules to stay staffed seven days a week, and while communication across shifts was an initial hurdle, issues were quickly ironed out. "It was probably the smoothest summer I've had, and I've been working in parks for over a decade," he said, crediting the new schedule as a boon for recruiting. While job postings used to languish unfilled for months, last summer the applicant pool was not only bigger but more qualified, and the two staffers he hired both cited coming to the county because of the 32-hour workweek.

"It's no more cost to the public to work 32 hours — but we have better applicants," he said. Ingman also said the four-day workweek has done wonders for his job satisfaction; he'd watched colleagues burn out for years, but now sees a path for his own future in the department... County employees have used their extra time off to spend less money on childcare, volunteer in their kids' schools, and contribute to the community... While San Juan County's motivation in adopting a shortened workweek was financial, the benefits its employees cite speak to a larger trend, as workplaces around the country increasingly explore flexible schedules to combat burnout and attract and retain talent.

A survey of CEOs this spring found nearly one third of large US companies were looking into solutions like four-day or four-and-a-half-day workweeks... Even without a reduction in total hours, a Gallup poll last year found a third day off would be widely embraced: 77% of US workers said a 4-day, 40-hour workweek would have a positive impact on their wellbeing.

One worker shared their thoughts with CNN. "Life shouldn't be about just working yourself into the ground..." And they added that "So far, I feel happy; I feel seen as an employee and as a human, and I feel like it could be a beautiful step forward for other people if we just trust it and try it."

They even had some advice for other employers. "Change happens by somebody actually doing the change. The only way we're going to find out if it works is by doing."
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

What Happened When a Washington County Tried a 32-Hour Workweek?

Comments Filter:
  • Cue up (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 17, 2024 @06:02PM (#64952725)

    The stories of how elderly slashdotters worked 80 hour weeks and were thankful for it.

    • As an old Slashdoter I did frequently work more than 40 hours per week although rarely close to 80 hours. The difference might be I liked my job mostly and liked to work. And I believe you meant âoequeueâ.
      • I like my job as well. No scratch that, I LOVE my job. I find it incredibly fulfilling and there's a reason I've buckled the trend and stayed at the same company for over 15 years now.

        But I love my life more. Even though my job is incredibly closely aligned with my hobby I do a hobby for me not for someone else. It doesn't matter how much you love your job, if you're voluntarily overworking it then you're running away from something else in your life, or you're worried about the optics of it (like those peo

        • if you're voluntarily overworking

          I was SO happy when I got into 1099 contracting.

          No matter if I liked it or not...I got paid for every hour of work.

          I don't ever WANT to work....I'm pretty much a mercenary when it comes to work. I mean, if I won the Powerball tomorrow, I'd never set foot in a place of work again. I dunno if I'd even tell them I wasn't coming back.

          (joke I'd give notice....).

          I don't mind hard work...long hours when needed, BUT, I expect to be paid well for every hour and minute I do toll

      • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

        I don't think anybody ever meant ÃoequeueÃ.

      • Nope. Cue is right: https://www.collinsdictionary.... [collinsdictionary.com]
      • As an old Slashdoter I did frequently work more than 40 hours per week although rarely close to 80 hours. The difference might be I liked my job mostly and liked to work. And I believe you meant "queue."

        Working unhealthily long hours is only OK when it's a personal choice with no coercion. Most people just want to work healthy hours so they can spend the precious hours of their lives with the people they really care about.

        BTW, is a "slashdoter" someone who dotes on slashdot?

    • Re:Cue up (Score:5, Insightful)

      by test321 ( 8891681 ) on Sunday November 17, 2024 @06:38PM (#64952801)

      An officially 32 hour workweek is beneficial even to workers who enjoy working more. A 32 hour workweek means 1 extra day off, e.g. Fridays are off at the company. Not only you can work if you wish (from home), but as most others won't be working, you don't have to suffer interruptions (whether it's emails, support tickets, or remote meetings). When working on paperwork or coding, holidays are a blessing. Finally time to do some actual work.

    • Re:Cue up (Score:5, Interesting)

      by dbialac ( 320955 ) on Sunday November 17, 2024 @06:39PM (#64952805)
      I'll go the opposite way. I used to be the guy who worked a lot of extra hours. Now I work 32, 4 days a week. Believe it or not, I get more done in those 32 hours than I did in the long days. Having a 3 day weekend has meant coming into work on Tuesdays far more refreshed and in a better position to work than I was before. Part of that has also come from no longer being in a position where I was in front of the computer because I didn't have anything better to do.
      • by gweihir ( 88907 )

        The research on work has stated this for about 100 years now. Hence there is zero reason to be surprised. It is just the virtue-signalling assholes with no life that desperately want 40h or more.

    • Boomer here*, over 30 years in one job because (for the most part) I love what I do and I really hate job interviews. Or at least I think I do. How the hell can I remember a job interview I did in the last century?

      I did, and do, work 50-60 hour weeks on a regular basis. I'm actually working more hours and taking less vacation now than I did before I started working from home. Why? Because management thinks we owe them the time no longer spent on commuting, so they schedule meetings before the official start

    • I've done 120 hour weeks, on a farm. I was burnt out and it sucked, but you do what you have to do. I would hope we can evolve beyond that for newer generations, but there's a lot of incentive coming top-down to work ourselves to the utter bone before we burn out and "retire" as broken husks that have dedicated so much of ourselves to work that we can't imagine having a life outside of it.

  • DO EET (Score:5, Insightful)

    by GameboyRMH ( 1153867 ) <gameboyrmh.gmail@com> on Sunday November 17, 2024 @06:08PM (#64952733) Journal

    With improvements in productivity over the last 50 years, we should be down to a 24-hour work week right now. The time we've been working beyond that has contributed to nothing but worsening inequality. Facts.

    • Choose one. It could be 24 hours at a bit below current pay or 40 at a significantly higher pay rate. You can't cut hours AND raise pay with the money the wealthy stole from the middle class.
    • Sadly the actual cost of building a new house has rise so much - for reasons possibly to do with the Baumol effect, but also due to the failure to achieve significant improvements in productivity in the construction sector - that 'obvious' logic doesn't apply.

      Wikipedia on the baumol effect
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

    • With improvements in productivity over the last 50 years, we should be down to a 24-hour work week right now. The time we've been working beyond that has contributed to nothing but worsening inequality. Facts.

      Be careful when you start throwing around “inequality” when talking about level of effort. I sure as hell don’t want to punish the young go-getter working 60 hours a week on their own business because others feel scales of efficiency equate to a 24-hour workweek in 2024 for anyone and everyone.

      I’m also not going to punish the 50-year old retired millionaire who busted their ass working 60-hour weeks to achieve that early retirement. You think they did that to be equal to the one pu

      • People do put in different amounts of effort, but the level of inequality we have now is far more insane than perfect equality. Elon is not working hundreds or thousands of times harder half-listening to calls while playing Diablo vs. the person busting their ass to start a small business, or some Amazon warehouse worker or driver dashing around at full speed all day long. Even the millionaire who worked 60-hour weeks probably didn't work 5x as hard as that Amazon warehouse worker by any metric.

        These levels

  • by rsilvergun ( 571051 ) on Sunday November 17, 2024 @06:11PM (#64952741)
    It's something nobody talks about. But if you do some googling you'll find an article and a study showing that 70% of the middle class jobs that went away since the '80s were taken by automation.

    If you stop and think about it even for a moment it makes sense. We've all watched a video about a modern factory and how little human interaction there is at most of them. There's an applesauce factory where you literally pour apples in one end and packaged applesauce comes out the other. And I remember a sleeping bag factory with 130 employees for the entire company that supplied enough bags for half of America.

    And we are just getting started. Machine learning and LLMS means that we are about to have a huge automation boom.

    In short we are running out of work. That was supposed to be a good thing but we are not socially ready for it. We are not ready to have 30 or 40 or 50 million people at the country just doesn't have any use for.
    • In short we are running out of work.

      No we're not. Just because we automate something away doesn't mean we cease working. Human time is a limited resource. When it gets freed up we use it somewhere else. Automation drives efficiency and improvement in efficiency drives growth. You can see that reflected in the underlying GDP figures. If GDP were stagnant (or at least limited only to a rise in population) then you may have an argument that we have run out of work to do.

    • by gtall ( 79522 ) on Monday November 18, 2024 @04:36AM (#64953495)

      Manufacturing is about to go down shortly after the Whiner in Chief-Elect takes office. If you check, you'll find that manufacturing started to go down in 2019 when that idiot put in his tariffs. And since he'll have control over government data, expect any valid government reporting about it happening again to be squashed. Only the little people taking it in the neck will realize what's happening. And the Maggots will be extolling the virtues of his "manufacturing renaissance" shouting to drown out the little people complaining about their manufacturing jobs going bye-bye.

      And the fun won't stop there. A lot of work in the U.S. is done by migrants, the very migrants that dolt wants to deport. Guess what happens to the companies using those migrants? They won't be doing so well. The obvious retort is that those companies can employ Americans. But Americans don't want to work at the wages the migrants work. So companies will have to increase their wage offers. And their prices to cover the shortfall. That will hit the food sector hard, the very same sector the Maggots are complaining about now.

      • And the fun won't stop there. A lot of work in the U.S. is done by migrants, the very migrants that dolt wants to deport. Guess what happens to the companies using those migrants? They won't be doing so well. The obvious retort is that those companies can employ Americans. But Americans don't want to work at the wages the migrants work. So companies will have to increase their wage offers. And their prices to cover the shortfall. That will hit the food sector hard, the very same sector the Maggots are compl

    • We are not ready to have 30 or 40 or 50 million people at the country just doesn't have any use for.

      Don't worry. Look at the amount of regulation: It has grown exponentially, and will continue to do so. Half of the 30 or 40 or 50 million people will be writing ever more regulations and the other half will enforce them.

  • Compared to what (Score:5, Insightful)

    by markdavis ( 642305 ) on Sunday November 17, 2024 @06:50PM (#64952829)

    >"the county released a report touting "a host of positive outcomes"

    And almost everything listed is just supply and demand effects. Of course it is a boon to recruitment, retention, competition for spots, etc. But if ALL employment everywhere was also doing 32 hours, then none of those "positive outcomes" would apply.

    The main question would be if productivity were the same before as after. And in many jobs that is hard to measure. Plus, one could equally conclude that if most people were as productive, then it isn't necessarily because they are less stressed/etc, but maybe because they were just goofing off before.

    >"It's no more cost to the public to work 32 hours"

    But it also doesn't cost LESS either. So why not 24 hours? 16 hours? At what point should you keep paying the same for fewer worked hours?

    • A lot of my job is demand-based, and that demand is usually at the front half of my day. Afternoons are variable. Not quite enough work to go around, but a bit too much to just work mornings only and too much to switch to projects due to likely interruptions.

      Me? I'm crazy. I'd let half the staff take short Fridays, and split the afternoons for the other four work days so half the people are pure project Mon/Tue and the other half are pure project Wed/Thu.

      And I'd definitely have far more WfH. In my opin

    • Re:Compared to what (Score:5, Interesting)

      by SimonInOz ( 579741 ) on Sunday November 17, 2024 @07:40PM (#64952913)

      The thing about a 32 hour week is that it enables more people to work. It allows more time for other activities, eg childcare, salsa lessons, exercise classes, caring for elderly relatives, etc. This would actually expand the economy.
      It's true of course that if everyone offered this, it would not be a competitive advantage. But it would create a slightly wider pool of possible workers.
      And, I must say, a race to the bottom for least hours in the workweek sounds quite appealing!

      • by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

        The thing about a 32 hour week is that it enables more people to work. It allows more time for other activities, eg childcare, salsa lessons, exercise classes, caring for elderly relatives, etc. This would actually expand the economy.

        Maybe, maybe not. If you consider a 32 hour workweek as a day less of a 48 hour workweek, sure it's a day. But there are many workplaces where the workweek is 37.5 hours (7.5 hours/day) or 35 hours (7 hours/day), 32 hours isn't all that much shorter (just under 6.5 hrs/day).

        If

        • If you consider a 32 hour workweek as a day less of a 48 hour workweek

          Uh, I think your math is off... I assume you meant 40 and not 48!

          If your workweek is already 35 hours, offering 32 isn't that much of a stretch.

          Depends how it's partitioned. I'd definitely do 8h x 4d to cover the 32 if that was on offer, but that might not suit everyone.

    • by dstwins ( 167742 )
      Its tricky... reducing the hours past a certain point means potentially increased shifts.. but it depends on workload.. For example, if you have 4 people doing 2 tasks, then reducing them to 20 hours each so they are essentially shift workers make more time/logistical sense. Also I have said it many times.. depending on the role... it just makes more sense to adjust the starting/ending hours to better align to those that need the county services.. (ie: if EVERYONE is working 8-4 then the reality is you ar
    • Plus, one could equally conclude that if most people were as productive, then it isn't necessarily because they are less stressed/etc, but maybe because they were just goofing off before.

      There's a wealth of research that shows this isn't true. The brain burn-out factor is far more prevalent than any goofing off. But then I also question your premise. If I am a goofing slacker at 40 hours, why would I not be a goofing slacker at 32 hours? The simple answer is I still would be, and there would be no change in underlying performance.

      But it also doesn't cost LESS either. So why not 24 hours? 16 hours?

      Because the brain doesn't work like that. The brain doesn't get exponentially more efficient when less overworked when reducing 24 hours to 16 hours as it does whe

    • Plus, one could equally conclude that if most people were as productive, then it isn't necessarily because they are less stressed/etc, but maybe because they were just goofing off before.

      If they were goofing off then they clearly had time to goof off while still fulfilling their roles, which means resources (time) were being inefficiently used, likely by workers dragging tasks out to simply fill the time they were required to be at work. You can keep cleaning the same bathroom over and over but it's not going to get any cleaner; at a certain point there just isn't more work to be done. Giving people back that time to spend with their families, hobbies, a side-hustle or maybe even work towar

    • ...but maybe because they were just goofing off before.

      If they were goofing off, it was probably because they were burned out from overwork; or they were expecting the regular burnout to occur, and were just pacing themselves.

      When we got sent home for the pandemic, my productivity skyrocketed (the higher-ups noted the "miracles" I pulled off then). But even that tamed a bit after a couple years, as overwork is overwork. However, it never dropped as low as it was working in the office. After my regular 2-week vacations, my productivity was back up to record-set

  • by mschuyler ( 197441 ) on Sunday November 17, 2024 @07:10PM (#64952865) Homepage Journal

    We're talking government workers in the smallest county in the state. Yeah, they do clean bathrooms and mow the lawn. Some of them even do essential work, like first responders. We need them. Somebody has to collect the taxes! But one thing they NEVER worry about is making a profit. They don't have to because if you don't pay your taxes, you lose your house. If they work 32 hours a week, you still owe your full taxes. If they work 24 hours a week, you still pay your full taxes. And if they do this for 30 years, they get a pension that is 60% of their salary, plus social security. For the math inclined, this means thay take home more money retired than they did working. So yeah, you won't get rich on stock options, but it's a nice gig if you can get it.

  • Lazy editor (Score:5, Insightful)

    by bjoast ( 1310293 ) on Sunday November 17, 2024 @07:22PM (#64952883)

    One worker shared their thoughts with CNN

    No, one worker shared her thoughts with CNN. The person is a woman, as clearly mentioned in the article.

    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by markdavis ( 642305 )

      Thank you. I noticed that as well. This distracting and confusing obsession with singular "they/their" is very annoying, doubly-so when it is completely unneeded.

  • by A nonymous Coward ( 7548 ) on Sunday November 17, 2024 @08:16PM (#64952949)

    Considering how malleable bureaucrats' work load is in every company, and how much more so in government, I don't think I'll put much credence in government bureaucrats bragging about their own analysis of their own experiment.

    On the other hand, everyone would probably be better off if more government workers worked less, even if they got paid for 40 hours.

    • We are 90 days from the greatest in depth look at of US government bureaucrats work effort since the 1920s, and these suckers let out of the bag that government workers might only produce 4 days of effort a week. Shut up and don't let elon and vik know that most of us do nothing, a few of us do somethings, and there are National Park Rangers who do their role better than private companies would.
  • 20% less hours getting the same work done.

  • Pay? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Scutter ( 18425 ) on Sunday November 17, 2024 @08:31PM (#64952973) Journal

    I can't find any reference to the applicants being paid the same as a 40 hour week. Are they getting an hourly increase to match their previous rate or are they effectively losing a day's pay every week?

    • The same pay is implied in the summary where they are comparing this 32hour work week in response to an (unmet) union demand for a pay increase.

      But in any case that is sort of beside the point. It seems to be that people are attracted to the concept of working less, not just the concept of getting money. Some people think that life is more important than riches. You can find a good example of that in places like The Netherlands. Not only does their pay pale in comparison to that of the USA (for middle class

      • You can get easily get an extra week of leave in the United States with every yearly review. Every time I have been told no raise is in next years budget, I have asked for another paid week off. Got it about 70% of the time until I had so many weeks I was taking a month of contract work for fun. Until 25 more years of service beats the half year and the accruing technical it takes to fill my role if I walk. When I went to the dark side and saw everything in budgeting enterprise wide, I was outspoke
    • The summary says that "San Juan County's motivation in adopting a shortened workweek was financial", which would imply they were intending to save money. Since they call the program a success, it follows they must have met their financial goals for the program, so net paid out less (so either less people working, or getting paid less).
  • day the required person is taking a siesta?

    • If there's only one person at the office who could do the job, the same thing could happen if that person fell ill. Who knows what would happen if they took a vacation or got hit by a bus!

  • by PPH ( 736903 ) on Sunday November 17, 2024 @09:36PM (#64953075)

    I'm not sure if these rules cover ferry workers (run by Washington State). But they are having problems with canceled sailing due to a lack of available crew. You can have one critical position on the boats not staffed and you can't go. There are also Coast Guard regulations about hours worked and rest time between shifts. So overtime doesn't work.

    Enjoy your 32 hour work weeks. Because you're not leaving on the weekends.

    • I'm not sure if these rules cover ferry workers (run by Washington State). But they are having problems with canceled sailing due to a lack of available crew. You can have one critical position on the boats not staffed and you can't go. There are also Coast Guard regulations about hours worked and rest time between shifts. So overtime doesn't work.

      Enjoy your 32 hour work weeks. Because you're not leaving on the weekends.

      Sounds like they don't pay enough for people to bother showing up.

      • Or enough ferry workers who can past the DOT physical (stand on one leg) , get a DOT certificate (captains lic) and drug test (yes weed).
      • by PPH ( 736903 )

        So you want the state to take its fixed budget and buy fewer hours of attendance by workers. Which is sort of what a 32 hour week is doing already. 40 hours of pay for 32 hours of work. This isn't an issue of productivity: getting the same amount of work done in fewer hours. These people just have to be there.

        But not to worry. We can just jack up the ticket fees. And then see how long the 32 hour work week and the county councils' jobs last.

  • As in, isn't 32 hours the cutoff where you no longer have to offer benefits?
  • "Hi, the park is getting overgrown."
    "We have a 3 week backlog..."

  • If you think about the "classic" weekday 9-to-5 job with an hour for lunch, doesn't that already total 35 hours work a week? Or is the US not following this model at all (probably not, if a drop of 3 hours makes headlines)?

    There are quite a few other factors to consider other than total working hours of course: flexibility when they can be taken (start/lunch/end times, even skipping a day and working longer on other days), working from home/hybrid options, sick pay, maternity/paternity pay and number of hol

    • Attendance at US goverment jobs is about all that is left to mesure work effort, the public sector employee unions made it this way. Post office, National Park Service, Air Traffic Control, the ones with firearms and DOD pay grades have more, but for 85% of government workers showing up on the VPN or at the desk is the measure of performance that gets one fired, promoted, or reassigned. You attend for 480 out of 500 workdays and you get a promotion and a band upgrade for the first 20 years of working.
    • If you think about the "classic" weekday 9-to-5 job with an hour for lunch, doesn't that already total 35 hours work a week? Or is the US not following this model at all (probably not, if a drop of 3 hours makes headlines)?

      To clarify, a lot of places in America consider an 8-5 workday as standard. You’re paid for 8 and are there for 9, including the unpaid hour for lunch.

      To further clarify, most people would love to be at or around 40 hours a week. Instead, it’s often one extreme or another. The hourly worker who dreams of getting up to 40 hours a week to earn a salary with benefits, or the salaried slave working 60-hour weeks with zero overtime benefit who dreams of getting down to what was advertised in the j

  • Or had a pay raise to offset the loss of 8 hours ??
    • Telling IT workers that most people only work 32 hours or left no matter how long their schedule is singing to the chorus. Your not here for the average week, your here for that week once a decade.
  • Setting aside everything else in the story, I’d like to talk about the better applicants bit.

    Assuming that’s true, it’s not a systemic advantage of a 32 hour work week. Might be good for them as first-movers, but if everybody were on 32 hour weeks, it should be clear that something less than 100% of the organizations in the world can have “better” applicants. All that really says is the best people have more optionality, but when discussing the merits of the shorter week at lar

  • What the advocates about this approach miss is that a lot of the benefits (better candidates, people stay longer, people are happier) are directly related to the fact they can't get this elsewhere. If every business went to this every one of those benefits would evaporate and you would be back to square one and needing to offer 3 day weeks to get the same effect.

The goal of Computer Science is to build something that will last at least until we've finished building it.

Working...