Asahi Linux Goes From Apple Silicon Port Project To macOS Bug Hunters (theregister.com) 33
Richard Speed reports via The Register: Asahi Linux, a project to port Linux to Apple Silicon Macs, has reported a combination of bugs in Apple's macOS that could leave users with hardware in a difficult-to-recover state. The issues revolve around how recent versions of macOS handle refresh rates, and MacBook Pro models with ProMotion displays (the 14 and 16-inch versions) are affected. According to the Asahi team, the bugs lurk in the upgrade and boot process and, when combined, can create a condition where a machine always boots to a black screen, and a Device Firmware Update (DFU) recovery is needed.
Asahi Linux's techies have looked into the issue, having first suspected it had something to do with either having an Asahi Linux installation on a Mac and then upgrading to macOS Sonoma or installing Asahi Linux after a Sonoma upgrade. However, the issue appears to be unconnected to the project. The team said: "As far as we can tell, ALL users who upgraded to Sonoma the normal way have an out-of-date or even broken System RecoveryOS, and in particular MacBook Pro 14" and 16" owners are vulnerable to ending up with a completely unbootable system." While this might sound alarming, the team was at pains to assure users that data was not at risk and only certain versions of macOS were affected -- Sonoma 14.0+ and Ventura 13.6+.
The first bug is related to macOS Sonoma using the previously installed version as System Recovery, which can cause problems when an older RecoveryOS runs into newer firmware. The second occurs if a display is configured to a refresh rate other than ProMotion. According to the Asahi Linux team, the system will no longer be able to boot into old macOS installs or Asahi Linux. "This includes recovery mode when those systems are set as the default boot OS, and also System Recovery at least until the next subsequent OS upgrade." The team noted: "Even users with just 13.6 installed single-boot are affected by this issue (no Asahi Linux needed).
"We do not understand how Apple managed to release an OS update that, when upgraded to normally, leaves machines unbootable if their display refresh rate is not the default. This seems to have been a major QA oversight by Apple."
Asahi Linux's techies have looked into the issue, having first suspected it had something to do with either having an Asahi Linux installation on a Mac and then upgrading to macOS Sonoma or installing Asahi Linux after a Sonoma upgrade. However, the issue appears to be unconnected to the project. The team said: "As far as we can tell, ALL users who upgraded to Sonoma the normal way have an out-of-date or even broken System RecoveryOS, and in particular MacBook Pro 14" and 16" owners are vulnerable to ending up with a completely unbootable system." While this might sound alarming, the team was at pains to assure users that data was not at risk and only certain versions of macOS were affected -- Sonoma 14.0+ and Ventura 13.6+.
The first bug is related to macOS Sonoma using the previously installed version as System Recovery, which can cause problems when an older RecoveryOS runs into newer firmware. The second occurs if a display is configured to a refresh rate other than ProMotion. According to the Asahi Linux team, the system will no longer be able to boot into old macOS installs or Asahi Linux. "This includes recovery mode when those systems are set as the default boot OS, and also System Recovery at least until the next subsequent OS upgrade." The team noted: "Even users with just 13.6 installed single-boot are affected by this issue (no Asahi Linux needed).
"We do not understand how Apple managed to release an OS update that, when upgraded to normally, leaves machines unbootable if their display refresh rate is not the default. This seems to have been a major QA oversight by Apple."
Not a problem (Score:2, Funny)
can create a condition where a machine always boots to a black screen, and a Device Firmware Update (DFU) recovery is needed
Now that Apple is suddenly big on right to repair, I'm 100% sure they'll quickly make the system rescue tools available to everybody for a reasonable price, so that Mac owners can go to their local independent repair shop and have their machine unstuck.
Re:Not a problem (Score:4, Funny)
One day, maybe. For now normal users could never get those tools. Where would anybody find a Mac, an obtain a USB-C cable, and be able to download configurator from an App Store? NASA?
Re: (Score:2)
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To be fair, most of Apple's target demographic has no idea that Apple Configurator even exists. Let alone what it does. Hell, if they did know, they'd be begging Apple for a kill switch to protect themselves from it.
And that makes them different from 99.97% of computer users on any platform how, exactly?
Re: (Score:1)
Bah, just let users have access to that.
they tripped some kind of anti hack repair trap? (Score:3)
they tripped some kind of anti hack or repair trap?
And the system goes into the DFU mode that may need an full wipe to get it working again?
display mode not set right = need to restore can be linked to an system to lock out useing your own screen / replceing one with out apples tools (that 3rd party's don't have access to) to repair an apple system.
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they tripped some kind of anti hack or repair trap?
Yes, they must have accidentally bought something from Apple.
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they tripped some kind of anti hack or repair trap?
And the system goes into the DFU mode that may need an full wipe to get it working again?
display mode not set right = need to restore can be linked to an system to lock out useing your own screen / replceing one with out apples tools (that 3rd party's don't have access to) to repair an apple system.
STFU, Hater.
This is a potentially serious bug; but the article did not allege potential data loss even once.
why is part of the boot process stored in data dis (Score:2)
why is part of the boot process stored in the main data disk? to the point where even the mac pro with user disk slots and pci-e slots.
Needs an restore from an 2th system to upgrade them and can't even have it's own build in wipe / format screens?
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why is part of the boot process stored in the main data disk? to the point where even the mac pro with user disk slots and pci-e slots.
Needs an restore from an 2th system to upgrade them and can't even have it's own build in wipe / format screens?
The Recovery Partition is for Disaster Recovery; not for regular System Upgrades. It is the same thing as using an Installer DVD or Boot Floppy, for when the Boot Drive is still readable; but won't boot.
DFU Mode (which requires another Mac) is for if things are borked to the point where the Recovery Partition can't be read/used.
I believe you can still Rebuild a Recovery Partition over the Internet, too, by using a different Power-up Keyboard Chord.
So yes, normally a Mac User can get rightside-up again by th
If apple makes servers again will they have ipmi? (Score:2)
If apple makes servers again will they have an ipmi?
That can run DFU mode?
Have at least raid 1 storage that does not need wipe to change out an disk / flash card?
Have hot swap flash cards?
Apple sucks (Score:1)
Re:Apple sucks (Score:4, Insightful)
But they make a pretty good Linux machine when you run Asahi Linux, which will be an official Fedora flavor. Eventually hopefully the other mainstream distros will be able to to target the platform as well.
It's a bit ironic (in the Alanis Morrisette sense), but the only decent ARM Linux machines out there are Apple when paired with Asahi. I think that's because Apple has defined a platform that Asahi can work with. Whereas the rest of the ARM ecosystem is so fragmented it's hard to get decent linux support without a ton of compromises.
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I'd say the #1 problem in the Arm space is simply that all but a tiny few of Arm CPUs are anemic as fuck for a desktop.
They've been neat toys forever, and ya, I'll be the first to admit I played with an rpi desktop for a while... but frankly, the CPUs suck ass.
Apple Silicon changed that. And it sounds like QC is about to give us our first non-Apple non-shit-for-desktop-use Arm as well.
But you can get fully functioning desktops, even if they
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I hope you're right, provided QC couples their processor with some kind of standard like UEFI for booting and common device trees. I hate having to install custom distros and random kernel forks for every ARM chip out there.
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provided QC couples their processor with some kind of standard like UEFI for booting and common device trees.
Yup, that'd be nice. That's up in the air though. There aren't many vendors who do first-party UEFI boot chains. ;)
However, there are third-party UEFI firmwares available for many Arm devices. (Apple Silicon, BCM2711 in the Rpi4 comes to mind
Tianocore makes it pretty easy to port UEFI to a platform with a more barebones bootloader.
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That's the only thing you need to realize
Wrong.
But I will agree that they need to go to a 2 year Update cadence for macOS. This constant Sprinting to meet a Major-Revision-Upgrade-Per-Year is obviously taking a toll on Production Approval processes.
Re: Apple sucks (Score:2)
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Think of how much less stress you would have with a real computer! :)
I don't have to imagine.
I had to deal with "real computers" for years at my various jobs.
Why do you think I use a Mac for my computer?
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This bug is affecting devices already. (Score:4, Informative)
Iâ(TM)ve had three Macs this week affected. ProMotion turned off or the Mac is in clamshell mode, next boot the Mac does not start up. Affecting macOS 13.6 and 12.7. Itâ(TM)s widely known in the Macadmins community. DFU restore is not required, a revive and then reinstall of macOS is needed. User data should be ok.
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I think it is possible to confuse the DFU process with Macs, as the one with iOS. With iOS, the DFU process is a 100% a restore, which means everything on the device is nuked and it is reinstalled with the latest firmware.
The Mac DFU [apple.com] revive process updates the sepOS firmware, but leaves the keys in place, as well as other firmware. It upgrades the recovery part as well. macOS is left untouched.
The DFU restore on a Mac just obliterates everything, SepOS, firmware, and OS, with all data stored by all three
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I think it is possible to confuse the DFU process with Macs, as the one with iOS. With iOS, the DFU process is a 100% a restore, which means everything on the device is nuked and it is reinstalled with the latest firmware.
The Mac DFU [apple.com] revive process updates the sepOS firmware, but leaves the keys in place, as well as other firmware. It upgrades the recovery part as well. macOS is left untouched.
The DFU restore on a Mac just obliterates everything, SepOS, firmware, and OS, with all data stored by all three, and updates it all to the latest version.
At least the revive process doesn't nuke data... but it is annoying to bring around a laptop with a good USB cable to physically get the machine back to a usable state. This is definitely something Apple needs to fix, like yesterday, because a lot of users may not have a second recent Mac that they can flash from.
Does DFU Restore nuke the User Data, too; or just Boot/OS Stuff?
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It nukes everything. The data may not be expressly overwritten, but the keys that decrypt it will be purged, and a TRIM command issued where the SSD controller will eventually overwrite the pages. The data will be completely inaccessible because the DFU restore will overwrite the encryption keys needed to access it.
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It nukes everything. The data may not be expressly overwritten, but the keys that decrypt it will be purged, and a TRIM command issued where the SSD controller will eventually overwrite the pages. The data will be completely inaccessible because the DFU restore will overwrite the encryption keys needed to access it.
Yeah; key overwrite == "erasure".
I guess that's what Time Machine is for. ;-)
Re: (Score:2)
Iâ(TM)ve had three Macs this week affected. ProMotion turned off or the Mac is in clamshell mode, next boot the Mac does not start up. Affecting macOS 13.6 and 12.7. Itâ(TM)s widely known in the Macadmins community. DFU restore is not required, a revive and then reinstall of macOS is needed. User data should be ok.
Yes, User data should never be affected; since it is on a separate "hybrid volume" (can't remember the actual term) from the System software under APFS since, IIRC, macOS 10.15, Catalina.
This is still a major Software QA issue, though. But it will be fixed.
Oh, Apple QA/fixes, lol (Score:2)
Speaking as a long-time Apple Mac user, their QA has always been terrible. Apple music still contains multiple obvious and trivially addressed bugs after multiple releases; the magic mouse driver still has button-press bugs; M1 machines still can't reliably do 60 Hz/HDMI; Apps like Act
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It's not a QA problem, it's a "we just don't care to focus our efforts on niche things" problems.
I, too, have a laundry list of bugs...
Having worked with their developers in the past in a corporate capacity, they seem to have zero interest in fixing anything that doesn't relate to a new release feature. Most of the other tech companies -AWS, IBM, Microsoft - are like this, too. But Apple software just seems to have a much more "amateur" feel than most. SO many bugs.
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It's not a QA problem, it's a "we just don't care to focus our efforts on niche things" problems.
I, too, have a laundry list of bugs...
Having worked with their developers in the past in a corporate capacity, they seem to have zero interest in fixing anything that doesn't relate to a new release feature. Most of the other tech companies -AWS, IBM, Microsoft - are like this, too. But Apple software just seems to have a much more "amateur" feel than most. SO many bugs.
The entire PC industry needs to Slow-The-Fuck-Down as to Annual Update Cadences. Everyone's in a constant Sprint!
Of course Regression and general QA suffer. And of course, Apple isn't the only offender. . .
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Yep, it's an exhausting cadence.
Annual product version upgrades is reasonable. Part of the problem is that you end up with a lot more patch and point releases, however, because of a lack of thoroughness. This leads to updates to your updates, and overall I think delays the ability to deliver product on time. It would make more sense to work to release better releases than to have to come back after the fact and fix bugs.
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Yep, it's an exhausting cadence.
Annual product version upgrades is reasonable. Part of the problem is that you end up with a lot more patch and point releases, however, because of a lack of thoroughness. This leads to updates to your updates, and overall I think delays the ability to deliver product on time. It would make more sense to work to release better releases than to have to come back after the fact and fix bugs.
I completely agree.
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Speaking as a long-time Apple Mac user, their QA has always been terrible. Apple music still contains multiple obvious and trivially addressed bugs after multiple releases; the magic mouse driver still has button-press bugs; M1 machines still can't reliably do 60 Hz/HDMI; Apps like Activity Monitor utterly bungle window re-opening on restart; the Clock app screws up the daylight indication; mouse positioning is lost on monitor powerdown with "nosleep" settings...
All of these have been reported over multiple releases using Apple's official bug report mechanism.
The M1/hdmi/60Hz bug might be a hardware fault in the M1 chipset (it went away with the M2), but since they habitually don't fix obvious software bugs, who knows?
I have long been resigned to accepting that when I find a bug in OSX/MacOS or an Apple application, it's not going away any time soon. And I know I will run into bugs with every new release. Some of them will be new. :/
And of course Windows and Linux have no longstanding bugs, right?