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Millions of Digital Nomads are Traveling the World -- and Sometimes Working at Night (yahoo.com) 68

Posted by EditorDavid from the road-warriors dept.
"Almost 17 million U.S. employees describe themselves as digital nomads," reports Bloomberg, "more than double the pre-pandemic number, according to MBO Partners, a firm that connects companies with freelance talent."

Bloomberg says one worker sees their lifestyle as less of a vacation and "more about forming a genuine connection with a place and the people who live there." [T]he abrupt shift to remote work during the pandemic pulled what was long an idle fantasy for many into the realm of the possible... The trend of longer work-leisure trips has accelerated as pent-up demand for international travel has boomed after years of restrictions. That's giving some digital nomads a bad reputation for driving up prices and trampling local culture in popular vacation destinations, but it hasn't slowed them down. Dozens of countries are marketing a new class of visas to these professionals to compete for tourism dollars. And despite many highly publicised return-to-office announcements in recent months, some degree of remote work remains a fixture at most companies.
"You hear stories all the time like, 'I went skydiving before I started my workday,'" one digital nomad told Bloomberg. They're participating in Remote Year, which Bloomberg describes as "a program that functions like a kind of study abroad trip for working adults."

But here's the catch. Because they're working in distant timezones, many far-flung remote workers "work a split shift, logging on for a few hours in the evening through midnight, before taking a few hours to sleep and then waking up to log back on for another round." Tue Le, chief executive officer of Remote Year, estimates that somewhere around 15% of program participants traveling in Asia keep strict U.S. hours by staying up overnight. Roughly another third work flexible hours with a mix of evenings or early mornings to collaborate with coworkers back home.
While it may be challenging, one digital nomad took naps as needed — offering this advice. "Don't let people nap-shame you."
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Millions of Digital Nomads are Traveling the World -- and Sometimes Working at Night More

Millions of Digital Nomads are Traveling the World -- and Sometimes Working at Night

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  • Is working in distant timezones a problem? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by khchung ( 462899 ) on Sunday October 01, 2023 @08:49PM (#63892839) Journal

    It wasn't when companies outsourced jobs from America to India, so how come it is a problem now?

    • Re:Is working in distant timezones a problem? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by CAIMLAS ( 41445 ) on Sunday October 01, 2023 @09:20PM (#63892903)

      It is when there are agendas at play to make remote workers look lazy, excessive, and to seem that they're not doing their jobs.

      There's a massive campaign at play to end remote work, in part due to the fact that it's harming corporate real estate markets significantly, but also because it's given people who do it a significant lifestyle benefit outside the cube farm life.

      Some people don't like the idea of free spirits.

      • Re:Is working in distant timezones a problem? (Score:5, Interesting)

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 01, 2023 @10:06PM (#63892967)
        It might harm US workers too though. Why should companies pay US rates when they can pay developing country rates? In too many cases the US workers aren't better than others who earn less than half. Many (not all) are mediocre and stupid enough to insist their jobs can 100% be done remotely. Push too hard for remote work and more of them might lose their jobs to cheaper workers in developing countries.

        It's safer to tell your bosses it can be 99% be done remotely but there's 1% which can't. And for that 1% you go to the office to do some stuff and maybe for the office party...

        The elite workers are safe of course. Different rules apply.

        FWIW I'm a third world worker. I'm not as good as the top US workers. But I'm better than very many and smart and experienced enough to see the problems they're not seeing. I even know the difference between your and you're, and don't use "should of"... ;)

        • Why should companies pay US rates when they can pay developing country rates?

          I realize you are a third world worker yourself but... to put in bluntly we all found out why in the outsourcing craze.

          In too many cases the US workers aren't better than others who earn less than half.

          I have hardly ever seen that. What I have seen, is you get what you pay for.

          You might even be very good but for some reason even though I've worked with a lot of third world workers living in the U.S. that have been great - it just

          • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

            by Anonymous Coward

            I have hardly ever seen that. What I have seen, is you get what you pay for.

            FWIW I'm paid about USD30k/year. Not cheap by third world country standards but still less than what some McD workers earn in the US. So how good are those US workers you've seen in the USA who earn USD30k/year? What does an entry level developer in the USA cost per year? With or without health insurance?

            If third world is not good enough for you, second world might do and could still be cheaper:
            https://www.npr.org/sections/t... [npr.org]

            And it turns out that the job done in China was above par - the employee's "code was clean, well written, and submitted in a timely fashion. Quarter after quarter, his performance review noted him as the best developer in the building"

            "All told, it looked like he earned several hundred thousand dollars a year, and only had to pay the Chinese consulting firm about fifty grand annually,"

            Wonder how much the workers that Chinese consulting firm used were paid per year

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by guruevi ( 827432 )

              The problem with outsourcing for many western companies is not the quality of the worker, it's the lack of controls over the output. As we have seen in China, the government sponsored people to take crap paying jobs across the board which they then started extracting all the value out of those corporations, eventually replacing them by offering identical but rebadged products. Huawei for example, you can buy switches and other network gear that completely emulate Cisco or Juniper's "secret sauce", no need t

      • Re:Is working in distant timezones a problem? (Score:4, Insightful)

        by Petersko ( 564140 ) on Monday October 02, 2023 @05:40AM (#63893345)

        Oh come on. This is about as accurate as saying, "those people just hate our freedom!" It's self-serving horseshit that tries to brush away legitimate concerns.

        If those nomads bill for only the time they work, make allowances for needed meetings that keep work flowing on schedule, and do not cause drag on normal business, I don't see a problem. Otherwise, punt them and replace them with somebody more compatible with the situation.

        But saying that people just don't like to see somebody else benefit is just... silly. It's the kind of talk people engage in with they're trying to simplify the views of others into absurdity. See the strike rhetoric of unions for examples.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by CAIMLAS ( 41445 )

          It's silly? You're not a serious person.

          True or false: HR, as agents of the company, go to every length to not pay people more than they have to. You know, things like, "we can't pay you more or we'd have to pay everyone on the team more" or "we just don't have it in the budget for raises" despite increases in quarterly profits, and things of that fashion.

          If you think that's true, then you're acknowledging that people (as agents of the company) have a vested interest in seeing others not benefit.

          • You're misinterpreting what I said, possibly by choice. You specifically said, "Some people don't like the idea of free spirits." You also said that one reason for the objection was because it was, "it's given people who do it a significant lifestyle benefit outside the cube farm life.". I'm saying these things are not the driving force - or even, by themselves, a consideration. Nobody's objecting to the idea of somebody enjoying these benefits - not in principle. The HR people aren't sitting there frettin

          • Just sheltered. It's not silly, it's emotionally taxing and, on occasion, actually life-threatening. And it happens all the time in America. I can speak to it anecdotally, but others in my nation are probably more affected. I try to stay out of the way of folks with cruel intentions. It affects my decision making. There are people, perhaps many, a few leaders, that not only like but are quite gleeful in denying others that which they might or would benefit from. It's kind of a running theme in our politics.
      • It's un-American & a shameful, despicable act to want to live & work somewhere other than the USA. They should be fired for their treachery. I mean, what has the rest of the world got that's better than the USA?
    • If you outsource a job for a team of people then it doesn't matter where that team is located, as long as they're together. If they not together then this hampers their ability to work as a team.

    • Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)

      by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Sunday October 01, 2023 @10:12PM (#63892973)
      Comment removed based on user account deletion

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Tablizer ( 95088 )

      Because Indians work at 1/2 US wages.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by wonky_admin ( 10343924 )
      One reason could be taxes. Different countries (and different states/etc within countries) each have their own taxing requirements on people and companies. If you wander from a country where your company has a legal presence to one without and then to a different one where they have a presence, taxes can get really messy. And countries really care about their taxes.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by e3m4n ( 947977 )
      I think the key takeaway is that youre welcome to live in whatever timezone you want, but your work hours are the timezone your job is located. Hence why most Indian call centers operated during the night in India. As long as you can make that work then fine. Expecting special treatment because you decided to do something unorthodox is more of a YOU problem than a WE problem if you understand the meaning. So if your job requires inter-office or customer facing communication then the onus is on you to be ava

    • It's a problem for me. I have a team that spans 13 hours. It's beyond frustrating. I'm a contract PM (employee of a consultancy), so I can only accommodate. But I spend an inordinate amount of time telling customers of the company why nothing is done quickly, and why turnaround sucks no matter how small the task. It's just a fact of life.

      If the company had simply bought the service from somebody they could have at least negotiated full coverage. But they are employees, and I'm stuck with it.

  • Apparently home is overrated.

    No matter where I went or for how long, it was always nice to come home. I don't relate to these people.

    • Re:No place like home. (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Brain-Fu ( 1274756 ) on Sunday October 01, 2023 @09:06PM (#63892863) Homepage Journal

      The traveller awaits the morning tide
      He doesn't know what's on the other side
      But something deep inside of him
      Keeps telling him to go
      He hasn't found a reason to say no

        -- Days are numbers, the Alan Parson's Project [genius.com]

      Some people just have it in them to travel. Clearly you aren't one of them, and that's fine. Variety is the spice of life.

      • Re:No place like home. (Score:4, Interesting)

        by Fuck_this_place ( 2652095 ) on Sunday October 01, 2023 @09:36PM (#63892935)

        I'm not necessarily saying it's a bad thing, just that I don't relate to it.

        I'm just saying that no matter what was going on, having the idea that home was there waiting was often the silver lining that got me through whatever it was I was doing. It's gravity has been noted, and not only by me, hence the famous expression.

        Growing up without that however, yes I can understand how it's hard to miss something you maybe never really had, while others are able to re-associate 'home' on the fly apparently, and sometimes no one has a choice in that.

        I wonder how the first people to move to another planet are going to feel about it....

        • You aren't curious about seeing different environments and places? No interest in seeing the pyramids and ancient sculpture/artwork, for example?

          • Re:No place like home. (Score:5, Insightful)

            by Brain-Fu ( 1274756 ) on Sunday October 01, 2023 @10:34PM (#63893003) Homepage Journal

            I, for one, am curious to see those things. And I have seen them in pictures I found online. Beautiful pictures. I found plenty of articles written about them too. More than enough to get me to the point where I was ready to move on to other topics.

            Obviously, it's not "the same" as going there myself. It costs a whole lot less, for one. And I don't have to expose myself to uncomfortable weather, the displeasure of air travel (including those naked body scanners that do no good but make specific people very rich), the risks of bedbugs or other maladies from ill-kept hotel rooms, the struggle to fall asleep in an unusual bedroom, and on and on.

            And just for a bit of clarity, in my former post higher up on this thread, I wasn't criticizing the non-traveler attitude or anything. I was just finding an excuse to quote Alan Parsons. I am really not a traveler. Comfy computer-chair travelling is more than enough for me.

            • The scanners show only an outline and anomaly detection. They may have more data internally but that doesn't get preserved.

              • You are so very very wrong [techcrunch.com].

                Note how the guy's dick dangles to the left. Do you consider that an anomaly or an outline?

                First, the TSA claimed the scanners couldn't store or transmit images.

                Then they had to admit they could, but claimed it was only in "test mode" which couldn't be enabled by those doing the scans.

                Then we found out that they were, in fact, storing tens of thousands of the images [epic.org] that supposedly could not be taken or transmitted.

                The TSA lies constantly about just how far they invade the privac

          • I did explore lots, though it was local, which is an area apx. the size of Texas and includes mountains, lakes of all sizes, plains and woodlands, and each in all four seasons.

            While it would be neat to see one of the great 'wonders' in person, I have seen plenty of pictures and video, and now have also been there in VR.

            While I'm sure there's plenty of nuance I'm missing, I'm also not spending money or risking my health in a strange land. If I could just hop into my flying car and go check them out, maybe I'

        • When home becomes the place where you work, there is no silver lining place to return to. You're there through all your activities, so a change of scenery may become the silver lining getting you through the days.

          For me, "home" is mostly the people to go back to.
          And to a lesser degree a particular area I know really well; not a single house. But that's just a question of 6 months to get to know a big enough radius of a new place.

    • Comment removed based on user account deletion

    • It is, but it's also great to travel and immerse in other cultures/situations. You don't have to be traveling 24/7 nor do you have to be home 24/7. Frankly I recommend any human/family travel 2 months of the year. Yes I know it's impossible for most people, I'm talking about the ideal.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Viol8 ( 599362 )

        "Frankly I recommend any human/family travel 2 months of the year"

        Why? Some of us just want to see somewhere nice and relax for a week or 2, maybe visit a museum or two. Not all of us care that much about other cultures, thats a very specific interest of a certain personality type. I'm not saying I ignore other cultures, but I'm not that interested enough in them to immerse myself in them either. I'm quite happy with my own culture (and no, I'm not in the USA).

    • Today, I love my home. But, 5-25 years ago travel was life. In the US I always lived below my means, not owning a car and enjoying "compact living." I saved aggressively to retire early. I don't have kids, never wanted to. I spent ~5 years living abroad over that timeframe, with one year as a classic "digital nomad." That year was interesting; my wife and I rented a little bungalow on an island in Thailand and I worked a split shift as described in the summary. At 8AM I would catch a longtail boat for four

      • I did move around some in my younger days. I sort of had two homes. One in the city, and one on a farm. The farm was old school, self sufficient and quite rustic.

        I lived in the city, but I spent basically all my vacation time on the farm, and eventually I did move out there, and that's when I learned that living out there full time was a bit too much(or too little...) for me. I was very glad to return home after that. Somehow all this pretty much cured me of my need to travel. heh.

  • I fled winter to work somewhere tropical for 5 months with my laptop. It was amazing and I highly recommend it to anyone that can work remotely. It was expensive since I was still paying my rent back home for all my stuff to just sit there unused but worth every cent.

  • The Age of Cyberpunk (Score:4)

    by Qbertino ( 265505 ) <moiraNO@SPAMmodparlor.com> on Sunday October 01, 2023 @09:19PM (#63892901)

    I've always toyed with the idea of becoming a "digital nomad" - although I would use the more classic term "cyberpunk". I'm actually well positioned for this sort of lifestyle since I live quite minimalist and my child has grown up already. I've met a few Diginomads that work in my field of websoftware that made an excellent living and were traveling the world and enjoying their life to the fullest. I guess I'm still kinda hesitant to take the leap, but I did test the waters with a European road trip last year.

    I know from others that this can be awesome but it can also screw up your life of you go into Diginomad lifestyle without proper preparation and a fallback/exit strategy. Otherwise it's probably quite easy to end up as a broke bum on some end of the world where you can't get away.

    • You need to have a home base and decent finances. Also if you go someplace weird/exotic (non-touristy/guided) you should know and trust someone there -- and ideally that person is well connected locally.

    • Re:The Age of Cyberpunk (Score:4)

      by Baron_Yam ( 643147 ) on Sunday October 01, 2023 @09:45PM (#63892943)

      >I've always toyed with the idea of becoming a "digital nomad"

      Costa Rica apparently has a nice program for digital nomads. I considered trying it for a year since my work only really requires VOIP and logging in to a remote server farm. It's close to the same time zone, and plenty of 'expat communities'.

      Then again, I have elderly parents I like to visit frequently, and my wife and kids aren't quite as flexible in their lives.

      > it can also screw up your life of you go into Diginomad lifestyle without proper preparation and a fallback/exit strategy.

      My plan was to hire a property management company and rent out my home for a year while I'm gone, and rent in Costa Rica during my stay. And of course, always have enough in the bank for an emergency flight back to Canada.

      Worst case, I'd come home and have to rent while I wait for my tenant's lease to end so I could have my own house back.

      If it's still an option, I may revisit it once I'm not so tied down in one spot.

    • This is actually exactly what I'm doing, and it's cheaper to NOT live in the US than it is to stay. I'm in the heart of Rome right now on a monthly budget of 1500 euro vs over 4k living in Denver.

  • This environment is not relevant to 99% of the working world. The notion that a company would rather hire someone for a set period to leave their home to live in a new region, still maintaining their home of origin? How many people are so indispensable and possess such a unique skill set that they can't find any-other-candidate more local? Or hire someone who cannot say where they will be the next time a job skill is needed? Not relevant in most cases and will never be. That position will be redundant since

    • How many people are so indispensable and possess such a unique skill set that they can't find any-other-candidate more local?

      Any worker that has spent a year or more learning the codebase, customers, processes and effective communication paths within a company.

      Those people take a LOT of effort to replace. You do so at your peril. Just because someone has shifted location for a bit is not a good reason.

      • Lots of people in that situation - domain knowledge, codebase knowledge, tribal knowledge - harbour the belief that they're indispensable. They just aren't.

        It's not easy... but I've been in t he situation where one of those people left unexpectedly. In one case, they died unexpectedly. And it can be tumultuous, but it gets resolved. In my experience there are no exceptions to that. You find a way.

        Is it perilous? Maybe? But I've lived my professional life in critical systems with incredibly niche skills, and

  • People who work in a location that's many timezones away from their company's home base sometimes need to adjust their schedule.

    Was this a surprise to someone?

  • I did it for two months (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Idefix97 ( 725474 ) on Sunday October 01, 2023 @10:23PM (#63892993)
    I went back to my my home country (Netherlands) for two months in December/January to spend as much time visiting with my mum. I would travel to see my mum in the morning and when i would come back after a five hour trip and visit, I would start working around 3 pm until midnight or later. My work is in all time zones in the US and India as well.
    Although I was very happy to be able to have the flexibility to do this, it was a very heavy schedule to maintain. On top of that it was winter in Holland and I missed my southern California sun!
    She passed away in March.

  • A strange way to describe "on call." (Score:3)

    by evil_aaronm ( 671521 ) on Sunday October 01, 2023 @11:58PM (#63893063)
    So, working all hours - literally - from anywhere - like while driving along in a blizzard; or on a highway shoulder; or holding a laptop and typing single-handedly while at your grand-daughters' day out at the bounce house - is a "digital nomad"? I thought it was just being on call.

    • you need an union badly

    • No no no (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Viol8 ( 599362 )

      You've missed the point. These people choose to do this because they think being an itinerant somehow means they're experiencing life in a deeper sense than someone who stays at home with family and friends and has a healthy social circle. Of course what they actually are is just rootless backpackers who get a shallow slice of wherever they are before they move onliving their life via a screen.

      I actually feel a bit sorry for people who's home/social/relationship lives are so boring that they have to do this

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by DarkOx ( 621550 )

        Well it all gets back to the messages society sends.

        These people are for the most part perfectly capable of developing their social connections and relationships. They obviously are plagued by economic barriers. However they have been told, that children, family, community etc are not important; or that an online group of travel bloggers is a community (SMH).

        Its entirely lost of them that the point of cultures was to facility children/family/community.

        It may be laudable to be 'well traveled' but that has

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Viol8 ( 599362 )

          " They obviously are plagued by economic barriers"

          Nah, I don't buy that. It costs money to go backpacking which is why its so full of middle class trustafarians. Poor people don't generally do jobs that can be done from a laptop in a cafe in Zanzibar as and when they please.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by DarkOx ( 621550 )

            I missed the word 'not' sorry. I mean to say they are 'not plagued by economic barriers'

            There is a narrative out there people are not getting married and not having families because they can't afford to. Maybe for some that is the case, but there is a large cohort where that isn't the case at all, but they chose not to do so and that comes down to what they are being 'TOLD' to aspire too, these are not bright people, but people who think great wisdom comes from smelling the incense while sitting in some t

  • has begun, driven by porn, booze, and screwed up circadian rhythms.

    • What do you mean "has begun"? It's been on the go for decades. Millions of people working during the night to ensure you have crap to buy in the store the following morning, that the crap you've ordered online for next day is delivered.

  • But the whole "nomad" (read itinerant) lifestyle really starts to fall apart when you have a family and kids who need to go to school. Ask any army brat who's been dragged around the world from base to base every year or so how much fun that type of life is after a while.

    • With children its awful, as it totally alienates them from a sense of community. I remember drinking with an bloke who grew up as an army brat and he told me he didn't feel like he fitted in anywhere. Kids need stability.

  • How are they not hassled with taxes? (Score:3)

    by forgotten_my_nick ( 802929 ) on Monday October 02, 2023 @03:06AM (#63893207)

    I've tried to do this but it can be a tax and visa nightmare. Even bringing your laptop to another country can bring up compliance and other issues.

  • Because after 183 days you become a tax-evader and risk prison and HEAVY fines, no matter where you do it.

    Ask Boris Becker, the tax-man counted the days he slept in his mother's den to show he was NOT living and working in Monaco.

    And that was his OWN country.

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by wfj2fd ( 4643467 )
      You're only a tax evader if you don't pay taxes. If you work for a US company and pay US taxes while abroad, you're fine. If you can show that you were out of the US for 330 days of the year and your income is from a non-US company, you don't pay US taxes, but you do need to pay taxes for the county you're working in/for.

      • "You're only a tax evader if you don't pay taxes. If you work for a US company and pay US taxes while abroad, you're fine. "

        The country where you work in wants their taxes as well, just because you're an American you are not exempt.

  • I didn't know I was so cutting-edge back in the day. I would work during the day and during the night.

  • My friend recently discovered the perfect blend of luxury and flexibility in her digital nomad lifestyle: VAUNT's private jet service paired with unique Airbnb stays. She's dodging the headaches of commercial air travel. She got a last-minute trip notification from VAUNT, jetted off to a new city, and walked right into a cozy Airbnb. Freedom and adventure have never been this seamless.

    https://flyvaunt.com/ [flyvaunt.com]

  • Aww bless, the poor little lambs are having to work nights because they've decided to live several timezones away. How hard done by they must be. Just like the millions of workers in the logistics sector processing the crap you buy from the likes of Amazon, re-stocking the stores you buy from and moving goods all over the country throughout the night so it's there for you the following morning.

  • Kids (Score:2)

    by ffejie ( 779512 )
    Headline: Some people don't have kids.

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