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Encryption

Google's Messages App Will Now Use RCS By Default and Encrypt Group Chats (techcrunch.com) 72

Posted by msmash from the moving-forward dept.
Speaking of SMSes, Google announced today it's making its Messages by Google app more secure with improvements to RCS, or Rich Communication Services -- a protocol aimed at replacing SMS and is more on par with the advanced features found in Apple's iMessage. From a report: The company says it will now make RCS the default for both new and existing Messages app users. In addition, end-to-end encryption for group chats is now fully rolled out to all RCS users. The latter had launched into an open beta earlier this year after earlier tests, but was not fully launched until now. With this update, all conversations between users in Messages, whether 1:1 or group chats, will now be kept private, Google says.

Since rolling out RCS to U.S. Android users in 2019, Google has been campaigning in an effort to pressure Apple into adopting the technology in its own messaging service, iMessage. It even launched a website last year to explain why RCS benefits consumers, noting "It's not about the color of the bubbles. It's the blurry videos, broken group chats, missing read receipts and typing indicators, no texting over Wi-Fi and more."
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Google's Messages App Will Now Use RCS By Default and Encrypt Group Chats More

Google's Messages App Will Now Use RCS By Default and Encrypt Group Chats

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  • "No texting over wi-fi"? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by 93 Escort Wagon ( 326346 ) on Tuesday August 08, 2023 @04:51PM (#63751408)

    I'm pretty sure all the major cell carriers have supported a cellular-to-wifi layer for years.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Gleenie ( 412916 ) *

      Definitely. Our network has had it since about 2017.

      • What's the best way to implement messaging, location and presence and, I don't know, a video intercom or calling on a local network? XMPP or SIP? Sorry to take it off topic.

        • Re: (Score:1)

          by Gleenie ( 412916 ) *

          RCS is actually a pretty good all-round solution. It's just that (a) having been conditioned by OTT apps that messaging should be a free service, subscribers won't pay for it and therefore carriers don't want to implement it and (b) as the article states, Apple have no reason to support it and every reason not to, so it would take regulatory intervention on the scale of FCC or EU to force their hand.

          For truly local networks though I would say XMPP for simple text messages and WebRTC for the video intercom/c

          • Check out Matrix Synapse for DIY.

            It works as well as XMPP with a modern architecture.

          • Re: (Score:1)

            by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

            RCS is actually a pretty good all-round solution

            Yes, if you're Google and advertisers and wish to spam every phone nearby.

            Apple have no reason to support it and every reason not to, so it would take regulatory intervention on the scale of FCC or EU to force their hand.

            Of course. Why would Apple willingly support a spam method?

            I mean, so far it's only purpose is spamming users to the point where Google had to turn it off because users were getting too much spam.

            I'm just wondering if "blink" is one of the sty

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by Gleenie ( 412916 ) *

              I don't know what you mean by RCS is a 'spam method'. Carriers don't have to choose to allow advertisers to use the chatbot features of RCS. But Google *is* an advertiser, so naturally they have no problem with that. If you have a problem with Google's business practices then get an iPhone. It's not RCS that's the issue here. It's that you bought a phone with an OS written by an advertising company.

              On the other hand, I am right now in the throes of a project which completely modernises the SMS service at th

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by crow ( 16139 )

      For a pre-paid plan where texting actually costs money, having it bypass SMS and use WiFi directly is a win. But for most people, nobody cares.

  • RCS has been problematic for me... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Junta ( 36770 ) on Tuesday August 08, 2023 @05:02PM (#63751450)

    About 25% of the time it just sits and times out and fails to send message, and I have to type 'switch to SMS/MMS'.

    Which is maddening because I'm used to typing a message, hitting enter, and ignoring it. Now hours later I realize it failed to work.

  • RCS (Score:3, Interesting)

    by awwshit ( 6214476 ) on Tuesday August 08, 2023 @05:03PM (#63751456)

    RCS is made for spam. No one other than advertisers wants this "feature". Apple is right to reject it.

    • Could you elaborate? How would we be threatened for more spam with rsc?

      • https://automateddreams.com/bl... [automateddreams.com]

        • That (relatively old, 2019) article describes some features (custom colors, branded icons, verified senders and such), but doesn't say why some of them might be bad.

        • That's just a silly tinfoil hat statement then. It's an article written from a marketing viewpoint, about how could they use a new technology for better marketing purposes than before, so when someone already sends you an ad via the message then it's rich text/media and not just plain text. Claiming that this has been made for advertising is just silly. It's like saying that airplanes were built for ads, because you can play ads to people in them
            • But this is the effect, not the cause. The fact that they have effectively turned it off shows it. I believe users protected in eu/us by privacy laws will be good and you for example can't randomly message a user for an ad without their consent, that would be illegal.

              • I have not answered a phone call from a number I do not already know in decades, because robocalls became the norm despite things like the Do Not Call list and increasing technical measures. Even in 2023 with enforcement I still get robocalls. You are clueless if you think advertising features will not be abused to death in the US. The only thing that will stop Google is when everyone stops using their garbage.

    • Apple has many rea$on$ to keep its messaging platform proprietary and insecure.

      Google's play is to get carriers to abandon SMS for e2e RCS as a reasonable trustworthy platform.

      2FA over SMS is a persistent disaster. Soon enough you'll get a warning that the message "from your bank" used forged keys.

      That's not happening with iMessage. Android users will have a notable security advantage.

      • https://automateddreams.com/bl... [automateddreams.com]

        iMessage has a walled garden issue and I'm not defending that - but it is not built for spam. RCS is designed to for personal advertisements, nudges and delivery confirmation included.

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by Anonymous Coward

        Apple has many rea$on$ to keep its messaging platform proprietary and insecure.
        Google's play is to get carriers to abandon SMS for e2e RCS as a reasonable trustworthy platform.
        2FA over SMS is a persistent disaster. Soon enough you'll get a warning that the message "from your bank" used forged keys.
        That's not happening with iMessage. Android users will have a notable security advantage.

        How is iMessage insecure and RCS secure? Encryption is not even part of the RCS standard since the telecom carriers specifically oppose it.

        If you're using encryption over RCS then you're using Google's proprietary encryption extension over Google servers. How would you have E2E encryption between Google and your carrier's RCS??

    • Re:RCS (Score:5, Interesting)

      by DogFoodBuss ( 9006703 ) on Tuesday August 08, 2023 @08:15PM (#63751856)
      That is not a secret - it is exactly how they sell RCS to their business customers: https://jibe.google.com/busine... [google.com] They have already demonstrated how they can turn the advertising firehose on and off at will: https://www.theverge.com/2022/... [theverge.com] Remember, that despite the non-standard encryption layer that Google created, they operate most of the global RCS infrastructure and get to see who is talking to who. That is tremendously valuable data - with RCS, your identity is your phone number. You cannot easily change it and you can never be anonymous. Once advertisers have you in RCS, they have got you for life. Google NEEDS Apple on board to further their AD business.

      • > That is not a secret

        Apparently it is to a lot of people, just read this thread.

      • That is not a secret - it is exactly how they sell RCS to their business customers: https://jibe.google.com/busine [google.com]... [google.com]

        That's not spam. That is literally the function of any modern messaging platform. Integration with services is what makes them useful. Spam is when something is unsolicited. All of what is listed on that website is supported by WhatsApp, and used by many companies, yet I don't get "spam".

        In other news maybe you should go back to using a black and white 80x24 text terminal, because based on what you're saying the only purpose of a colour monitor is so advertisers can present you logos right?

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

        Reminds me of email. Once consumers started accessing the internet, it quickly devolved into 90% spam.

        Also reminds me of SMS. For a while that was 90% spam too, but at least in Europe most carriers seem to have reduced it to near zero now.

        I understand that the US doesn't so much about spam though, e.g. people still complain about unsolicited marketing phone calls, which aren't much of a thing in other places.

  • On the whole the number of carriers that have adopted RCS is low, and among those that support it almost none have full support across their entire network. Coverage for RCS is still very spotty and adoption is at crawling speed since years. Source: I work for a telecom services provider, and we still cannot offer RCS-as-a-service because the "reach" is almost none.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by ceoyoyo ( 59147 )

      RCS has always seemed like a really weird strategy from Google. SMS sucked so much that everyone, including Apple, bailed on it as soon as they could. Google for some reason decided to build on it.

      Come on Google. If RCS is so great, release an app so we can try it out. It would be great to be able to send pictures and video to friends with Android phones from my iPhone, notebook, desktop, etc. Oh, right, you can't. Good thing there's WhatsApp, Signal, Telegram, sixteen different chat apps from Facebook and

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

        Google wants RCS to happen because it's cross platform, and universal. Every phone has SMS, but it sucks.

        All iPhones have iMessage. Google's various chat apps over the years aren't even on all Android devices by default.

      • Why would I want to stop using SMS? My plan has unlimited SMS, but limited data. Isn't that the norm?

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by ceoyoyo ( 59147 )

          Good luck tapping out enough SMS to even register on a modern plan. Is this why SMS keeps going? Innumeracy?

        • Why would I want to stop using SMS? My plan has unlimited SMS, but limited data. Isn't that the norm?

          Mine comes with unlimited SMS and unlimited data.

          I thought that was the norm these days.

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by Threni ( 635302 )

        Whatsapp is shit though. If you use it on more than one device you can see how often messages have incorrect sent/delivered/read status, appear out of order or simply don't show up at all.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by ceoyoyo ( 59147 )

          Well, RCS has a good solution for that. You can only use it on one device.

          • Well, RCS has a good solution for that. You can only use it on one device.

            Well then I can't read messages on my bathroom-shower phone like my walking around phone ! /sarcasm

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by thegarbz ( 1787294 )

        Google for some reason decided to build on it.

        Google hasn't built on anything. RCS is a 3GPP standard pushed by the OMA. You should be applauding Google for adopting an open standard rather than questioning why they don't shove something else proprietary down your throat.

        If RCS is so great, release an app so we can try it out.

        Android literally has this app baked in. This entire article is literally talking about the change to enable the functionality (which exists) by default. ... Do you have any idea what we're talking about?

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by ceoyoyo ( 59147 )

          Sure, technically it's "open." I suppose you could implement your own RCS server and app, but that's not how it's intended to work and it's not what Google has done. Except for the actual specification, the system is very much closed since you have to be a telecom to implement it. Stop falling for "open" bullshit.

          We've got lots of actually open chat protocols that are happy to run over anything. Google could have picked one of those, or even implemented the RCS protocol in an open manner, but they decided t

          • Stop falling for "open" bullshit.

            Jesus fucking Christ, not everything "open" means source available to implement by anyone. Open here simply means vendor agnostic. Chill your tits man.

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by ceoyoyo ( 59147 )

              Well, agnostic as long as you're a vender who licenses it from the GSMA and is on the white list approved to connect to the network.

              • Well, agnostic as long as you're a vender who licenses it from the GSMA and is on the white list approved to connect to the network.

                So literally everyone who is involved in any mobile telephony by default. This is the internet. I get it you have an inherent need to argue but surely you could find something relevant to argue about.

    • because the "reach" is almost none

      Chicken and egg problem. Why would someone invest in something that isn't supported? There's no pull by customers. Maybe now telecom providers will actually do their job when faced with abuse calls from customers because their texts aren't sending.

      I also think we should do this with IPv4. Google should just go dark for the day on all IPv4 transactions so that ISPs can experience some nice end user rage.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by mjwx ( 966435 )

      On the whole the number of carriers that have adopted RCS is low, and among those that support it almost none have full support across their entire network. Coverage for RCS is still very spotty and adoption is at crawling speed since years. Source: I work for a telecom services provider, and we still cannot offer RCS-as-a-service because the "reach" is almost none.

      Largely because it's not needed. We don't charge the recipient for receiving them, rather the sender for sending them and for years now that's essentially been a zero cost thing (unlimited SMS included with the most basic, cheapest Pay As You Go plan). The idea that an SMS costs anything to send is almost alien.

      We also come down on spammers by targeting the telcos enabling the Spam as well as the spammers themselves. So only the most daft will be willing to try.

      Beyond that, there are loads of options

  • But why (Score:2, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward

    I am happy enough with SMS. I do not need "blurry videos, [broken] group chats, missing read receipts and typing indicators, no texting over Wi-Fi and more".

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      I don't want SMS, RCS or iMessage. Getting texts from strangers is so pre-Y2K. Any system that isn't white list by default with verified identities is next to worthless for initiating contact. This is why email and plain old telephone service is crap.

  • I don't need read reciepts and typing indicators. I don't need someone getting all pissy cause I read their msg and didn't respond till hours later because im busy in my real life or that I started typing a reply and decided to wait till later to respond.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by SeaFox ( 739806 )

      Then just turn those features off?

      You don't have to use all the features that RCS offers, it's not a single package. I use the wi-fi and secure messaging features, but have no read recipients sent and no typing indicators (but I can get indication from others that they are typing still).

    • So disable the functionality and move on with your life.

  • The only reason to use SMS/MMS is because you know everyone has it. All you need is their phone number. You don't need to know which platform they are using and you don't have to convince everyone you know to switch to something different. We need that same level of ubiquity that supports larger attachments, encryption, read receipts, etc. It's precisely what Google is trying to accomplish with RCS. But it's slow going because 1. The carriers are slow to implement, 2. 50% of the phones are iPhones and t

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      4. RCS is not encrypted because the carriers are opposed to it. Encryption is a proprietary Google add-on that doesn't interoperate with other RCS systems.

      3. For similar reasons as Apple, many messaging systems would be completely unnecessary (What's App, FB Messenger, Signal, Telegram, etc).

      I hope Google succeeds.

      You want a single proprietary messaging system from the advertising company disinterested in privacy.

    • I don't want larger attachments, encryption, or read receipts. And I don't want text messages to use my mobile data.

      • And I don't want text messages to use my mobile data.

        Aren't most cell phone plans unlimited data these days?

  • It's about putting pressure on the industry to abandon SMS to further break compatibility with old phones and get more Pixels shoved into everyone's pants. I've been using xmpp for about a decade now so I really had no idea that it's just now catching up.

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by thegarbz ( 1787294 )

      It's about putting pressure on the industry to abandon SMS to further break compatibility with old phones

      RCS literally has an SMS fallback backed right into the 3GPP standard. You can send an "RCS" to any device no matter how old, providing it is capable of connecting to a cell tower. It'll be received as an SMS.

      In the future I recommend you have just a little bit of a clue about the subject before posting your senseless drivel.

  • RCS is obsolete (Score:5, Funny)

    by Bu11etmagnet ( 1071376 ) on Wednesday August 09, 2023 @02:28AM (#63752398)

    Instead of RCS, they should use the more convenient CVS, or the more modern Subversion.

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