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CNN Sees 'Escalating Battle' Over Returning to the Office at Tech Companies (cnn.com) 179

CNN explores tech-company efforts to curtail remote working. "Salesforce is trying to lure staff into offices by offering to donate $10 to a local charity for each day an employee comes in from June 12 to June 23, according to an internal Slack message reported on by Fortune."

CNN notes a recent walk-out at Amazon protesting (in part) new return-to-office policies, as well as Meta's upcoming three-days-a-week in-office mandate. But CNN adds that it's Google that "has long been a bellwether for workplace policies in the tech industry and beyond" — and that recently Google announced plans to factor in-person attendance into its performance reviews. "Overnight, workers' professionalism has been disregarded in favor of ambiguous attendance tracking practices tied to our performance evaluations," Chris Schmidt, a software engineer at Google and member of the grassroots Alphabet Workers Union, told CNN in a statement. "The practical application of this new policy will be needless confusion amongst workers and a disregard for our various life circumstances... "

Schmidt said that even if you go into the office, there's no guarantee you'll have people on your team to work with or even a desk to sit at. "Many teams are distributed, and for some of us there may not be anyone to collaborate with in our physical office locations," Schmidt said. "Currently, New York City workers do not even have enough desks and conference rooms for workers to use comfortably."

A Google spokesperson countered that its policy of working in the office three days a week is "going well, and we want to see Googlers connecting and collaborating in-person, so we're limiting remote work to exception only...."
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CNN Sees 'Escalating Battle' Over Returning to the Office at Tech Companies

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  • Oh, this is good (Score:5, Insightful)

    by byronivs ( 1626319 ) on Saturday June 10, 2023 @01:41PM (#63591648) Journal
    Yes, please, I'll beat the shit out of myself in traffic for you to give someone else some money. I truly believe that charity is the essence of love for fellow human. This is not that.

    I literally have better crosses to die upon.
    • Exactly.

      There are so many benefits of working at home that once you compare WFH with WFO, the choice is blindingly clear: office work is completely unnecessary for many positions.

      • Re:Oh, this is good (Score:5, Interesting)

        by Opportunist ( 166417 ) on Saturday June 10, 2023 @02:53PM (#63591806)

        And we have empiric proof thereof now.

        Until 2020, companies could at least claim that WFH doesn't work, is too expensive to implement, would lead to lower production quality and whatnot, and we couldn't even point to a counter example.

        We can do that now.

        There is ZERO reason to cart your corpse to another building for most office jobs. At least none that don't come down admitting that you're worried about your investment in real estate in and around the office building and that you have no fucking clue how to manage.

        • Creating a mandatory work from home unless you can't law would probably protect the environment more than they will ever do with EVs.
          • Depends. Can everyone work from home? If not then you're substituting a commute in a car with running an additional AC unit all day, running extra lights, most probably ones no where near as efficiently as those in commercial buildings.

            During the winter many people voluntarily returned to work in Europe just to reduce their own heating bills.

            I'm not saying you're wrong, but I don't think it's as clear cut as you think and may be worth a detailed academic study to form that conclusion.

            • Dude, You have to think about the differences between who profits and who pays.

              If you are building a zero sum game, then yes, its more efficient for everyone to be at one place. But if you go down this route, you should sleep in the basement at work, and your kid should be schooled in the warehouse etc.

              In this case, a lot of people who got used to the benefits of working from home (no commute, no issues with babysitters if the kids are sick, better lunches or whatever it is that people enjoy) are now angry

            • by c-A-d ( 77980 )

              I don't have a lease, but fuel (~$200/mo), insurance ($140/mo), and parking ($100/mo) alone cost me about $450/mo. And then there's the 3 times per year I have maintenance which usually clocks in at $150-200 depending on what needs to be done (synthetic oil is expensive). And if you have a lease, what's that worth now? I've seen low end cars run $200/mo.

              An additional A/C unit and extra lights running are not going to cost you $650+/mo.

            • by Bert64 ( 520050 )

              Heating or cooling will depend on where you live, there are many places with temperate climates where it's fine to sit around with no heating or cooling operating, or opening a window is sufficient cooling etc.
              Lights are only needed during the night, most people work during the day.
              The heating/ac cost is probably less than the commuting costs in many cases, if you can commute cheaper than that then you probably live within a short walk of your office and you're not part of the problem in the first place.

              If

          • That is not a job for government and legislature, that's the job for market. People will work for the companies that offer more work from home. It will also reduce the cost of the office space. The companies that offer work from home will push the companies that don't do that out of the market.
            The push for the return in the office is a consequence of the political pressure from the cities and towns. Working from home reduces the need for eating out, reduces the need for shopping in the expensive town cente
            • It's the job of government to ensure the country is as livable as possible. It seems trying to keep the planet livable is rising to the top of priorities, so yes it is their job.
          • Re:Oh, this is good (Score:5, Interesting)

            by GameboyRMH ( 1153867 ) <gameboyrmh AT gmail DOT com> on Saturday June 10, 2023 @11:06PM (#63592562) Journal

            This. Workers need to play the environmental angle. How can companies pretend to be "green" when they want to force workers to needlessly commute?

        • by antdude ( 79039 )

          Let's thank COVID-19 4 WFH! :P

      • But who will pay for the tax breaks corps are getting when relocating to Texas/Arizona? Surely not the corps!
        What about your SVPs real estate investments? Won't someone think of the passive income stream of their executives?
        And let's not even talk about the poor, starving Saudi princes.

    • Ten bucks in gas for a ten buck donation, and the employees cannot even deduct it. Yeah, that makes sense.
    • I have a better idea.

      For every day you let me work from home, I'll drop 10 bucks into a charity of my choice. Deal?

      No?

      Gee, why not?

      • by dgatwood ( 11270 )

        They get: Employees in the office and a tax deduction. You get: Unsolicited mail asking for more donations and a bill for gasoline. Their scheme is a win-win for them and a lose-lose for you. Why would they want to do something that *benefits* employees? :-)

      • No?
        Gee, why not?

        Because managers are the ones that get to make decisions. The rest of us aren't smart enough and we're expected to just do what we're told.

  • by NoWayNoShapeNoForm ( 7060585 ) on Saturday June 10, 2023 @01:42PM (#63591650)

    Will ChatGPT improve to the point that many of the Work From Home crowd can be replaced by AI?

    It could be cheaper than Mumbai "talent".

    • by JustAnotherOldGuy ( 4145623 ) on Saturday June 10, 2023 @01:49PM (#63591666) Journal

      And how would it be different if those same people had to do the same work in an office?

      I'm genuinely curious; what difference would it make? If AI can replace someone working from home, it can replace someone working from an office.

      Face it, many of us just aren't going back, period.

      • by ceoyoyo ( 59147 )

        There's a bunch of research that suggests typical companies end up with lots more employees than the optimum. It happens for a variety of reasons, but one of the big ones is that managers are typically measured by "how many people are under them."

        It may be that these perverse incentives continue to operate as normal and you're correct. Or it might be that remote workers don't enjoy the same surplus and the superfluous ones get eliminated. I don't think it's really obvious either way.

        • Yes, physical spaces tend to collect more bodies over time, I don't know why that is but it may be manager-itis at work.

          When my company went full-remote, I don't recall hearing of any layoffs. It could be that they did some careful trimming here and there, but as far as I know, no one got canned just due to the move to remote.

          • People at my company were fired if they couldn't work effectively remotely. Some were told they need to be in the office and we tried to work with them first, others just were not worth the effort.

            • Yes, some people are inherently unable to perform without being watched or monitored. Those people can find an office job or fall by the wayside.

              Frankly, if someone doesn't have the discipline to manage themselves without being watched or "nannied", that's their problem. It shouldn't be the company's problem. I'd probably fire them too.

    • LLMs and honestly just plain old automation that managers are going to be implementing now that they have gotten all excited about chat Gpt is going to rip through office work jobs. But to be honest a lot of those low level office work jobs are already done in India with entire cities dedicated to them. It's one of the reasons why India's government has become so crazy right wing going after a evolution and the periodic table. They have a massive employment crisis coming that's even worse than ours while cl
    • ChatGPT is already at the level where we could replace a lot of C-Levels and other useless management bodies with it.

      Wonder why we don't.

      • by gweihir ( 88907 )

        To be fair, a lot of C-Levels can be replaced with the ultimate in no-damage-doing, namely "nobody". ChatAI is only the 2nd best choice.

    • Even with another model, there are still things that AI doesn't do well. I recently did a query asking an AI to write a few commands to create an encrypted filesystem under ZFS with a file as the key. It outputted nothing even close to the real command that did it.

      Yes, it -might- be able to help, but what it does is change development from having a blank slate, to having stuff, but having to debug Bard's or ChatGPT's output, which could take as much time, if not more, than writing it from scratch. Simila

    • Technology always requires new job skills and for those who are old or thought they would have last decades jobs get screwed

      But we have increased productivity and pay which is why we do employ children so much. And we are at a point where people are acquiring real skills and are demanding money. So for semi skilled work we know want children, but it is dangerous for them

      Right now employers are using threats, like they used the Pinkerton 100 years ago. At some point money will have to be negotiated for j

    • I think you've got that backwards. The Work From Home crowd are the ones who can be productive without their boss hovering over them. It's the Must Work At the Office crowd that will be easier to replace with ChatGPT.

    • by gweihir ( 88907 )

      Well, yes and no. WFH is white-collar work. ChatAI is going to replace a lot of low-difficulty, low-qualification white collar work. Hence many WFH people will be replaced. But it will go even faster for the work-from-office people because they are more expensive, requiring an office.

      However as soon as qualifications need to be higher and some actual insight is required, ChatAI is unusable and will do more harm than good. And no, it cannot be "improved" to fix that.

  • I'm not going back (Score:5, Informative)

    by JustAnotherOldGuy ( 4145623 ) on Saturday June 10, 2023 @01:44PM (#63591654) Journal

    See title.

    I'm not going back, never, ever. It's just not gonna happen, and if cities have indigestion because of it, I fail to see how that's my responsibility.

    I like sleeping in an extra hour every day.
    I like not having to commute.
    I like the flexibility to relax during the day while still working.
    I like not having to bring food to work or paying inflated prices at local eateries.
    I like not having co-workers sharing their germs with me.
    I like being able to be home as soon as my day is done.
    I like not having to drive next to crazies in the snow and rain.
    I like not grinding my way through traffic.
    I like not risking my car to the driving skills to the bozo next to me.
    I like not waiting at stoplights.

    I could go on (really, I could) but you get the idea. And that idea is that I'm never going back to an office, ever.

    • by sound+vision ( 884283 ) on Saturday June 10, 2023 @01:47PM (#63591662) Journal

      Someone doesn't want their $10 gift card!

    • Glad to hear you are retiring.

      How long before you have to create another account for your new name JustAnotherUnemployedGuy?
      • How long before you have to create another account for your new name JustAnotherUnemployedGuy?

        I don't know. I plan to work for as long as I feel like it, probably a few more years. I'm bashing and stashing my 401k. I'm about to up it to a 50% contribution rate because I can afford to. Might as well because the matching funds are free money (my favorite kind!).

        Then again I may wake up next week and go, "Fuck this, I'm done."

        But I like what I do, I don't have to work very hard, and I'm paid well. People appreciate what I produce, and some of it's actually fun.

        So yeah, all in all, I don't know. Somewhe

    • We had two cars for two people. After I stopped driving 75 minutes each way to my last job - which really didn't need to be in-person, anyway, since all of the hardware was co-located across time zones and we never touched it - I hit a deer with my car and decided I didn't really need to replace it. We've been fine with just the one car for almost six years, now.
      • ...I hit a deer with my car and decided I didn't really need to replace it. We've been fine with just the one car for almost six years, now.

        I hadn't thought about that, but that's a good point. WFH can translate into not needing as much "stuff" just to carry on with your life.

        I could probably get rid of one of our cars (we have 2) and it would hardly affect us since I work from home. If both of us were commuting and we lost a car, suddenly it'd be a scramble to secure transportation.

    • What always ground my gears was that company owners could write off business expenses on their taxes, but employees have to pay out of pocket for the logistics of getting to and from work unless the employer feels like being generous. Working people literally pay for both their own transportation and the transportation provided freely to executives as a company car and flight coupons.
  • What we heard: (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Brain-Fu ( 1274756 ) on Saturday June 10, 2023 @01:45PM (#63591656) Homepage Journal

    Google spokesperson: "...we want to see Googlers connecting and collaborating in-person..." and we don't care how much they hate it, how much sacrifice they must make for it, how pointless it is, or how dangerous it might be to them. This is our way of asserting power over our subordinates, and making sure they remember who is in charge, so they don't get too uppity.

    This bullshit about how in-person collaboration is more productive than online collaboration is just a nice-sounding rationalization to cover up the ugly truth.

    • Great. Let's get together with the C-suite every day for an hour or two at the office.

      We want to connect and collaborate after all, right?

    • by leonbev ( 111395 )

      Google needs to justify owning its overpriced office park in Mountain View. Downsizing it would be too big of a hit to the executive team's ego!

      • I suspect it's actually driven more by the incredible leverage these companies get by having an economic army they can decide to march elsewhere, or ask to vote against "unfriendly" local politicians, or whatever. How are they going to get a billion dollar tax bribe every few years if they can't dangle forced relocation in front of a state? And how will they get local political candidates to fear them if large chunks of their workers don't vote in that district?

        Ultimately, we're increasingly showing empiric

    • You got that right. Even when I sat with my co-workers in a cluster of desks, easily 90% of our conversations were in chat. About the only times we'd actually interact was when folks stood up to head out for lunch or home.
  • Any publicly traded company that is currently allowing its employees to work from home and continuing to pay for a lot of expensive but empty office space is likely being warned by their lawyers that they are going to face stockholder lawsuits if they don't sell the office space for a profit -- which isn't going to happen in todays climate -- or get their employees back into those offices.

  • Love it! (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Kokuyo ( 549451 ) on Saturday June 10, 2023 @02:06PM (#63591700) Journal

    They are literally willing to spend the money as long as they don't actually have to give it to you.

    And then some people wonder why the majority of us feel like upper management types suffer from a complete disconnect from reality.

    Like it's perfectly okay to tank your stock by ten to twenty percent, as long as you get ESG points with your unpopular marketing.

    To be perfectly honest, I am actively working towards being beyond caring. I have tried to bring some common sense to the table for decades and all it's gotten me is burnout. I cannot fix this world. It doesn't want me to. Hell, it's usually calling me names or laughing at me for the attempt.

    I'll try to be a spectator. Do what you will. I'll try to wade through the sewage you create. It's just hard to every day realize a bit more how misguided I was in thinking Star Trek was a goal for most people.

  • The hacker ethic (Score:5, Insightful)

    by ceoyoyo ( 59147 ) on Saturday June 10, 2023 @02:27PM (#63591740)

    Pekka Himanen wrote a book, "The Hacker Ethic and the Spirit of the Information Age" where recounts the problems management had with the first generation of tech workers. PC enthusiasts were an enormous, self-taught reservoir of talent for an exploding industry, but when companies like IBM told them they had to wear ties and work on things like spreadsheets for banks, the hacker types told them to fuck off. The result was a new style of management, with beer and pool tables and at least apparently meaningful work. Those guys made an entire industry change their management style.

    In the meantime, tech workers have been commoditized, the pool tables and beer have been disappearing, and now the tech worker is considerably more replaceable.

    • by Kokuyo ( 549451 )

      I keep hearing that the tech worker has become a commodity but I disagree.

      The tech field has become so enormous and vast that the tools have been made more friendly to the masses. So what we now see is a lot of jobs that can be done by people with, relatively speaking, low tech affinity.

      However, the field, as mentioned, has grown so much that the need for people with high tech affinity still has exploded right along the keyboard monkey positions.

      And I don't think the manpower pool has been keeping up with t

      • by gweihir ( 88907 )

        I agree. From what I see, not only is the need for IT workers growing all the time, their jobs get more complicated all the time and the damage when they screw up gets higher and higher. Eventually, in 50-100 years or so, IT will be established tech, things will move very slowly and at that time the demand for competent IT workers may decrease. But not before.

        Yes, vendors claim all the time "buy this magic box and all your IT problems are history". They have been doing that for 30 years now. It does not wor

    • Code monkeys are a replaceable commodity. And if you pay peanuts and want them to jump through hoops, you will get the monkeys who like this.

      Personally, I have less of a problem with peanuts. I have a problem with the hoops. Mostly 'cause I'm not a monkey.

    • In some ways yes. Mainstream, full stack development, you can hire people left and right to do that work. However, there are a lot of tech niches which are out there that can't be filled with cheap workers, be it embedded development where RAM, storage, and CPU just don't have the headroom, and a developer can't throw whatever stuff they can scape from npm into a project.

      There are still a bunch of technologies out there that need experts. NFTs have been abused, but they still have some real world uses th

      • In order to transfer an NFT I still have to pay the gas fee, and my transaction still has to be recorded, so I haven't gained anything. From my point of view the network is still centralized, and I'm still having to go through a third party and pay money in order to make the transfer. This is not a solution to Ticketmaster, because it doesn't solve the problem of their capture of venues.

  • Don't worry about the charity, I'll happily donate the 10 dollar per day myself to a charity not to have to spend my day in your cage.

  • https://www.marketwatch.com/am... [marketwatch.com]

    Gotta keep those valuations up somehow. No one is going to pay top dollar on a building with no people or businesses in it.
    Workers should really exploit this once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to demand better conditions. Or just tank the portfolios of the wealthy real estate owners (of whom a few are also their bosses). I am fine with either outcome honestly.

    • Oh don't worry, your tax money will keep them from having to face the consequences of their bad investment choices.

  • Salesforce is trying to lure staff into offices by offering to donate $10 to a local charity for each day an employee comes in from June 12 to June 23

    Hey, how about taking some of the money you're saving after laying off thousands of employees, and pay people enough to where they actually want to come back, instead of making a tax deductible donation, you fucks? Also, your product is shit.

  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • I'm very skeptical of these 'drive a wedge between groups' pieces (in this case employer vs. employee on the 'home office issue'). Someone could paint an equally (in)valid picture of IT employers that don't care where you work (like mine). Let's stop being baited by this style of journalism, it's done enough damage to society already.
  • Like most of us who work for corporations of any size, our coworkers live and work in other countries. Google's push is worse than unnecessary, it makes no logical sense.

  • If the job on offer requires you to be physically present, make your decision and opt out or don't. Market forces will deal with the company - or maybe not.

    If you got your job under work from home conditions, you might be entitled to continue it it in that way. But if the company is returning you to pre-pandemic conditions, you aren't owed the new world.

    After 30 years in offices, I work from home, and so do my teams. And I have seen levels of absenteeism, "yellows cameras" for hours, and shitty productivity

  • If there is one reason or time to programmers and other IT works to brand together and collectively bargain, this is it. The big tech employers could not survive a strike of any length of time, they can't hire enough replacements, things will stop working too quickly.

    And you are doing is ultimately saving the company by reducing resources it doesn't need. Less office space, less management. This isn't trying to hold onto a old model that isn't competitive so some people feel more comfortable.

    This is just fo

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