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Businesses IT

Bosses Don't Follow Their Own Advice In Returning To the Office (bloomberg.com) 97

Posted by BeauHD from the double-standard dept.
Bosses are hellbent on getting their staff back into the office. It's just that the rules don't necessarily apply to them. Bloomberg reports: While 35% of non-executive employees are in the office five days a week, only 19% of executives can say the same thing, according to a survey conducted by Future Forum, a research consortium supported by the Slack messaging channel. Of the percentage of employees who move to work, more than half say they would like to have at least some flexibility, and non-executive workers generally say that work-life balance is much worse than that of their bosses. Moreover, the disparity is increasing. In the fourth quarter of 2021, non-executive employees were approximately 1.3 times more likely than their bosses to be completely in the office. Now, the probability is almost twice as high, and the proportion of non-executives working from the office five days a week is the highest since the survey began in June 2020, according to the more than 10,000 administrative workers surveyed in the United States, Australia and France, Germany, Japan and the United Kingdom.

The gap points to a double standard in back-to-office messaging: executives, from Bank of America Corp. to Alphabet Inc.'s Google, urge their workers to return in part to increase face-to-face collaboration, but the bosses themselves are somewhat exempt. Companies are also trying to justify long-term office leases or state-of-the-art locations like Apple Park in Cupertino, California. [...] As the back-to-office policy debate evolves, Future Forum recommends flexible schedules and location to retain top talent, even if it means breaking cultural traditions and developing new workflows. "People being in the office gives the illusion of control, but it's just an illusion," [Brian Elliott, executive director of Future Forum] said. "It doesn't mean they're being productive."
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Bosses Don't Follow Their Own Advice In Returning To the Office More

Bosses Don't Follow Their Own Advice In Returning To the Office

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  • That Title is Five Words Too Long (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Sarusa ( 104047 ) on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @06:28PM (#62460524)

    When are they not hypocrites?

    • Some bosses want their employees back in the office.

      Some bosses work from home.

      TFA provides no evidence that both cases are the same bosses.

    • only 19% of executives [are in their offices 5 days a week]

      This is about the pre-covid number, so why is it a surprise now?

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by ksheff ( 2406 )
        someone has to keep those golf courses in business...
      • Far be it for me to defend the hypocrisy of the corporate ruling class, but this is the explanation that needs to be ruled out before I can decide how hypocritical this really is.

        My former employer had hundreds of sites in the US, and thousands more outside of the country. The CEO of the US subsidiary also served on the board of the global parent company which was headquartered in Europe. That meant, despite being situated on the same floor, I saw him physically in the office maybe a dozen times a year. I

    • When are they not hypocrites?

      This is a not true Scotsman fallacy.

  • IT Knew it long ago (Score:5, Insightful)

    by nevermindme ( 912672 ) on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @06:37PM (#62460536)
    With the right investment, the towers full of cubical or open office plans are now obsolete monuments to managerial emotional needs. They are used to stroke egos from top to bottom of the corporates ladder and paperless is the secure way to work.

    For the individual, the commute is a waste of time, the energy and governmental investment of the commute is just a waste for society. Go in to work to meet your peers about 3 times a month, cancel if the weather is bad, have lunch, elbow up to vendors and for the rest of the month...GTFO and put in just 8 hours as requested being exactly what is impossible to automate.
    • Full remote work means a ripe opportunity to outsource overseas. There's plenty of people willing to be awake during US business hours and speak English fluently. Be careful what you wish for.

      • Re: IT Knew it long ago (Score:5, Insightful)

        by StormReaver ( 59959 ) on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @08:38PM (#62460714)

        Full remote work means a ripe opportunity to outsource overseas.

        There are, at least, a couple things wrong with that:

        1) We tried it for decades. It seemed great (for the corporate overlords) in the beginning, but then came back to bite those same companies in the ass. It turns out that you get low quality work when you hire cheap labor. It caused a lot of short-sighted companies to collapse under the weight of their incompetence.

        2) For countries on a more-or-less even keeling, they end up hiring each other's labor. They then realize that the local worker is just as good (or better) than the foreign worker. Hiring foreign workers is just an exercise in unnecessary complexity.

        If the best thing you bring to the table is proximity, then it's understandable that you would be worried. If you have useful skills, then the outsourcing threat is minimal to none.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by nasch ( 598556 )

        They've had over two years to do that. It's not clear to me what would prompt them to start now if they haven't already.

    • It's got nothing to do with manager ego (Score:5, Interesting)

      by rsilvergun ( 571051 ) on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @10:40PM (#62460858)
      And everything to do with property values. Work from home is a double whammy. First commercial real estate drops in value because of fewer renters and then people take those office buildings and convert them into high rise apartments causing the cost of housing to go down.

      A lot of folks wondered how the rich were going to stay rich since gen Z doesn't have any money to spend keeping the economy functional. The solution is easy, what was the phrase? You'll learn nothing and like it. That last part was a lie and you'll be paying 2/3 of your income to rent a single small room that you share with three other people.
      • So your theory is that the local IT company is part of a nation wide (global wide?) cabal to inflate commercial real estate prices and keep down the poor? You do realize companies save money by not paying rent?

        • So your theory is that the local IT company is part of a nation wide (global wide?) cabal to inflate commercial real estate prices and keep down the poor? You do realize companies save money by not paying rent?

          Exactly. It's insane how people see conspiracies and cabals everywhere. Shit is complex, but for the tinfoil yokels, everything is "connected". Life must have a conspiracy or cabal, otherwise, it is terrifying.

        • I'm saying every boss out there is concerned about their property values and the investments they have in those.

          Your boss, even a small one, is thinking about these things. On a small scale they're thinking about the value of their house because (and this was one of the worst things we ever did) we turned homes into "investments" where you hope and pray the value of your house skyrockets so you can sell it and retire when you otherwise couldn't...

          On a bigger scale they own some of that commercial re
          • I see the problem is a lot of assumptions. Can you link to a study that shows managerial investments on a personal level impacting commercial real estate prices? I'm pretty sure the CFO would rather save a bunch of rent money since he/she can always be replaced by someone who will. The return-to-office push, IMO, is more about companies trying to reduce risk since they don't know exactly what the productivity effect of work-from-home is in the long run. It's the devil they know.

            Maybe the "perverse incent

          • Most companies (vast majority are small to medium sized) I thought rent their spaces because it is nice tax write off. Sure they have to continue their lease but in the long run it is cheaper to pay a smaller one

        • It is about politics. Here is why. Any major top 10 city has small business owners crying losing lunch and parking garage revenue to city majors. The mayors in a panic call and beg the top employers to force their workers back in. These poor delis need forced money from employees who don't want to pay them etc. Maybe the mayor will give them a tax break or thrown in free publicity if they make their employees come back in etc.

          Microsoft did this and screwed their workers in the Silicon Valley office to appea

      • Some commercial landlords are converting left over space to luxury apartments and condos. That actually will resolve that problem if your city and state has lax zoning requirements. This would increase the supply of homes for the rest of us and prevent the commercial real estate from tanking and be a win win.

    • I know of a tech company where the CEO lives more than two hours from the (small) regional office. Said CEO resists remote hires and has lied to employees about why. Moreover, most hires are constrained to one of two campuses in another state entirely. And they wonder daily why they aren't receiving many applications.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by jbengt ( 874751 )
        My (very small) office is the opposite. Several years ago, the boss bought a million $ condo a couple of blocks from the downtown office, so, even in the height of the lockdown, he was in the office three or four times a day, while I was coming in maybe once a month only when needed at job sites near the office. Though, being the boss, he's rarely in the office a full 8 hours.
  • my desk has been taken. they don't want me back. i remote in to check the backups at 6am. smoke a few bongs at 9. drink a six pack between lunch and 4.30, have something to eat, crack a bottle of shiraz and clock off around 9pm. it's fucking glorious. thanks covid.

    • Re:ssh to heaven (Score:4, Interesting)

      by NateFromMich ( 6359610 ) on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @10:11PM (#62460826)

      they don't want me back ... check the backups at 6am. smoke a few bongs at 9. drink a six pack between lunch and 4.30, have something to eat, crack a bottle of shiraz and clock off around 9pm

      Jesus, no wonder they didn't want you around anymore.

    • Man, I guess enjoy it for now because nothing lasts forever.

      At some point, someone will realize (if they haven't already) that you don't really contribute much and can replace you. Whatever political cover you have currently is only one job shift/life change away from removing your shelter.

      And while you are slowly unlearning, more hungry people are skilling up and will compete against you in your coming job search.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by ksheff ( 2406 )
        Nothing in Cowtard's comment suggested that they aren't contributing anything or are "unlearning". They very well may be the most productive that they've been in years and are happy & relaxed while doing it.

        • They very well may be the most productive that they've been in years and are happy & relaxed while doing it.

          I know I'm more productive at home. I'm also more relaxed and happy.

          I strongly suspect that being more relaxed and happy contributes substantially to my being more productive.

          But what do I know, right?

  • Since when has management wanted face to face contact with the peons?

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Tablizer ( 95088 )

      When they want to chew you out.

    • Since when have the peons wanted face-to-face contact with management?

      I am happy my boss works from home.

    • There are good managers out there. There are also terrible managers. Some managers like to talk face to face with employees, some don't. Many managers were "peons" as you put it before they became managers. They got promoted and discovered that being a good manager is hard.

  • How about I show you the middle finger, and you get extra close if you really can't see it that well?

  • How much of a premium do employers put on being in the office all 5 days of the week, compared to say 2 or 3 days out? How much of a salary premium would you say they would give?

    For example, $90k a year for a half-telework employee versus $100k for full-presence would imply a $10k premium.

    • But they don't put any premium on it. They like to say they do so they can try to justify paying less. But the fact is: your salary reflects nothing more than how much value (the company believes) you bring to the company.

      Where you are when you bring that value is immaterial. They don't care if you commute 90 minutes each way uncompensated.

      Sure, sometimes you just have to go somewhere because the job is impossible to do remotely, but if your job can be done on a laptop from your home then why waste the ener

      • Here in The Netherlands cubes would actually be a step up.
        We have open offices, aka rooms with a lot of desks in it with almost 0 soundproofing.

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by Tablizer ( 95088 )

        > your salary reflects nothing more than how much value (the company believes) you bring to the company.

        I realize that per individual, but on average how much does management value full-in versus split?

        > They like to say they do so they can try to justify paying less.

        But when push comes to shove, they must put some value on it. Some employees would actually accept less for a split schedule. How much less would the org accept versus not allowing it and losing employees who would otherwise take a discou

  • Why are they so adamant about employees getting back in the office? Is it to justify management positions?

    • Re:Why do they want people back in the office? (Score:4, Informative)

      by ArchieBunker ( 132337 ) on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @07:52PM (#62460648)

      Correct. The property owners are really scared though. Their big expensive buildings could no longer be in demand or have limited capacity. They're going to start crying to politicians to put a stop to remote work. The market giveth and the market can also taketh away.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by ksheff ( 2406 )
        What sucks about all of that is that WFH is an easy way to eliminate a lot of fuel usage and the robber barons in the petroleum industry are also scared.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Steve B ( 42864 )

          It occurs to me that with oil sales being one of the few things propping up what's left of the Russian economy, their flying-monkey troll army is probably pushing RTO.

    • Why are they so adamant about employees getting back in the office? Is it to justify management positions?

      Absolutely. Managers are, by and large, useless - when not just plain parasites. With people working from home and things going ahead without any significant problems, the bean counters will eventually come to the realization that most managers are just dead weight.

      • Absolutely. Managers are, by and large, useless - when not just plain parasites.

        I suppose that you want to write all the TPS reports, sit in endless meetings and stare at spreadsheets until your eyes bleed all while soothing the egos and wrangling through the life issues of all of your subordinates.

        I say, thank goodness for managers, because they do all the BS work that hands-on people like me would be driven insane/to an early grave by.

    • Here in NYC the government wants everybody back in offices, because then they will be taking public transportation (as in Subway) and if they make it to work without beaten up, pushed onto the tracks, or stabbed, they will go out and buy lunch and do their shopping in the city, plus the occasional after-work get-together in the local bar or restaurant. All these will positively impact the economy and thus get more taxes. It is also obvious that they need to "heal" people from the lockdown mentality. (Good l

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by torkus ( 1133985 )

        Also from NYC and agree. It's a chicken and egg for big cities - everyone wants the fun city vibe back, but no one wants to actually show up to make that happen. Equally, no one ever really wanted the grimy subway (or worse LIRR/NJT + subway) commute packed like sardines or stuck driving in ridiculous traffic + expensive parking.

        My company has a beautiful, large, expensive, and literally brand new office in a very pricey (and easily commutable) part of NYC...and despite almost daily free lunches we can ba

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Steve B ( 42864 )

      Several factors:

      1. Some of them are old dogs unhappy about having been forced to learn the new tricks of managing a remote workforce during the worst of the pandemic, and think they can just make it go away and return to the BeforeTimes.

      2. Some of them get emotional charges out of being able to boss people in person (or, somewhat more benignly, from having people around in general).

      3. Some of them have economic interests in commercial real estate (e.g. the banking industry) or are influenced by people who d

    • 1. Old People afraid of change. That is how I always did it etc
      2. There is a misconception of people goofing off and anxiety if they are really working when they are at home and can't be monitored
      3. Politics. As the promotions are going to be reserved for those who came in during covid and the earliest seat warmers there is competition to come in which ruins it for the rest of the team. Remember the senior level gray hairs subscribe to #1, and #2 above etc.

      Younger people are more open but there are a few mi

      • 2. There is a misconception of people goofing off and anxiety if they are really working when they are at home and can't be monitored

        I'm definitely goofing off at home, but I'm also very productive, so I'm not sure what they're whining about.

        They can have me in the office, tired and grumpy and dissatisfied and running at 60% productivity, or they can have me at home, happy, relaxed, and steadily doing quality work on-time.

  • TFA only elaborates on 2021. But are the current numbers for "bosses" really that different from, say, 2018?

    Over the years I worked with several good "bosses" and they regularly were off site talking to customers, "bosses" from departments in other regions, exploring opportunities with people outside of the company, haggling vendor contracts etc.

    These are also activities where it makes sense to meet in person because the topics are vague, conflicts can arise and things can become emotional, so one would wan

  • for pro-corporate politicians who make this stuff possible? Or acknowledge that money is power, and people who have a *lot* of it have power over us?

  • I ran my career by this moto (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Otis B. Dilroy III ( 2110816 ) on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @08:43PM (#62460720)
    Management==Control
    Leadership==Example

    I took some licks along the way, but, in the end, it always seemed to work for me.
    • I have a slight twist on that...

      I call the extremes of management the Ruler type and the Leader type.

      The Rule types are easy to spot because they rarely know what they want but do know what they don't want -- and make sure you know when you miss the mark by demeaning and belittling you. They are reminiscent of the Queen of Hearts form Alice in Wonderland: you didn't give me what I didn't tell you that I wanted; off with your head. But, to your point, the Ruler types often obsess over meaningless metri

  • Bob Dobbs says: not hypocrites! (Score:4, Funny)

    by mveloso ( 325617 ) on Tuesday April 19, 2022 @08:43PM (#62460722)

    As the immortal Bob Dobbs once said:

    "I don't practice what I preach because I'm not the kind of person I'm preaching to."

  • One of my general rules in life is never to ask other people to do things I wouldn't be willing to do myself. It's a very simple rule, and easy to follow to boot.

    Especially in this case, it is in no way unreasonable to expect managers to set an example by showing up every day if they expect others to do the same. It's bad enough C-Suite execs usually have offices that are completely partitioned off from the rest of the building with their own private entrances so they never have to really mix with the unwas

  • Someone has to be there to oversee the addition, the kitchen remodel, and the See Rock City feature on 3 acres in the back. Can't possibly be at the office. I'm going to need IT over here too, Teams isn't working at my See 7 Slums View spot.

  • The fact that those clowns aren't onsite is the main reason I can actually get stuff done during my on-campus days! Don't ruin it!

  • Forcing people to be in one place often has less than nothing to do with the work. It has to do with middle-man suits and micromanagers staying employed in work where they're not actually useful, and with higher executives feeling in control even if it comes at the expense of productivity.

    A lot of these guys are only in business in the first place to lord over others and be "The Boss." Money is just something they have to make in order to stay that way. But when money and control are at odds, it can g

  • The companies where this is happening are lucky. Generally speaking, the people in the corner offices are the dumbest people in any building, with the possible exception of companies being run by their founders, IF they are the ones who had the bright idea for the product or service at the center of the business.

    Any day the boss is on the golf course is likely to be a more productive day, assuming the workers are reasonably smart and responsible, which is admittedly not always the case.

  • I run a consulting company, live in one country and work remotely in another. So, I am working from home, in the office and remotely (and browsing Sloshdat) all at the same time.

  • In article after article people seem to misconstrue that managers and execs at these companies are pushing this in order to maintain "control" over their employees, despite little to no evidence to the contrary.

    The real reason is real estate costs. The summary touches on it, but it is *THE MAJOR* factor at play here.

    The real issue is that employees want to have their cake and eat it too.
    - They want the flexability to work from home whenever they please. The reality is, this usually means 4+ days / week are

    • The solution is simple - you want your own desk? *COMMIT* to being in the office *A MINIMUM* of 3 days a week. If after a month your badge reports show that you did not achieve that, then you lose your desk and have to hot-desk.

      I'll go one further.

      They can keep my hot desk and my regular desk, I don't need one there on site at ALL and I'll work from home 100% of the time.

      ;)

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by brunes69 ( 86786 )

        That should also be an option.

        My point is that the majority of employees I talk to, want both. They want to come in sometimes (because WFH for 3 years is lonely), and WFH sometimes.

        And the more you talk, the more you realize that what the actual ask is, they want to WFH for 4 days a week and only come in one day a week to see people.

        Which is not really sustainable whatsoever, at least not with a fixed desk. You can not have your cake and eat it too.

    • Does logic no dawn on you?
      How about having everyone work from home and save money?
      Leave the lights off.
      Turn the AC and heat Off or just above water pipe freezing temps.
      No more cleaning costs, trash costs, paper or pencil cost etc.
      Yes you are paying rent. You would be paying that anyway and is a business deduction.
      Once the lease is up safe that money by not leasing again.
      "COME ON PEOPLE - you need to give SOMETHING." spoken like true management.
      The people are always giving something. The management u

      • Commercial leases are years in advanced unlike residential ones. Also some companies downright own and paid good cash like $1 billion+ for their Apple and Google campuses which is why both companies are forcing their employees back in.

        Also politics. Small restaurant and parking garage owners are flipping out and calling mayors and governors telling them they will vote them out if they do not force employees to go to their businesses downtown. These politicians have given these owners sweet tax right offs an

        • Commercial leases are years in advanced unlike residential ones. Also some companies downright own and paid good cash like $1 billion+ for their Apple and Google campuses

          Lol, the important thing to remember is that I DON'T CARE.

          I genuinely don't care about their massive real estate costs, not even a little. I have problems, but that ain't one of 'em.

          Honestly, they can frolic around their campus all day long if they like; I won't be in attendance. I'll be sleeping in, just like I do every day.

          The only thing I miss is the long, expensive, hazardous, soul-crushing daily commute. Boy oh boy do I miss having to do that every day, especially in shitty weather.

          Oh wait, no I don't.

    • That can backfire. I can imagine alot of employees wanting some visibility occasionally might come back in full time so they don't loose their desk and name badge next to their office door.

    • I'll go you one better: I'll work from home 100% of the time, and you can take your precious desk and shove it up your ass sideways.

      I won't even get into how harmful it is to the environment to heat, cool, and power these giant office buildings with hardly anyone in the things.

      It's harmful whether the building is occupied or not.

      In fact, it's even more harmful if the building is full of people that need to be kept warm or cool and have their waste flushed away all day long.

      Add to that the costs of having all those people commuting every fucking day, and you start you realize that you're not just wrong, but breathtakingly wrong.

      WFH is the future for a

  • ...in my experience, all of my employees worked from home the entirety of the last 2 years, unless they had to come in to get samples or pick up a new monitor etc.
    I, on the other hand, was the only one in the office every single day. For 2 years. *

    *not complaining, mind you, mostly this was my choice as I'm much more productive at the office than home, this is just a counterpoint to the tiresome generalization of the op.

  • While 35% of non-executive employees are in the office five days a week, only 19% of executives can say the same thing

    Did they account for traveling? Generally, management travels more than employees.

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