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Russian Cyber Attacks Are Struggling To Impact Ukraine's Networks (bloomberg.com) 75

Posted by msmash from the closer-look dept.
Russian cyber attacks have so far struggled to successfully target Ukraine's critical national infrastructure, according to government officials. From a report: While they are aware of Russian intent to disrupt or infiltrate Ukrainian systems, according to the officials, they have continued to function and Ukraine has mounted a strong defense. Many denial-of-service attacks targeting Ukraine are of low sophistication and impact, the people said, who asked not to be identified discussing private information. The country's experience fending off major cyber attacks since 2015 may have helped prepare it for recent attempts, they added. The destructive "wiper" malware seen in Ukraine is more insidious and the officials said they are on alert for it appearing outside of the country. In the hours prior to Russia's invasion, some Ukrainian government agencies were targeted with the software, which deleted data held on infected computers. More aggressive network take-downs or attacks may not fit with Russian objectives, they added, and Russia could even be leaving the broadband network active for its own means to gather intelligence.
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Russian Cyber Attacks Are Struggling To Impact Ukraine's Networks More

Russian Cyber Attacks Are Struggling To Impact Ukraine's Networks

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  • The Russian groups who do most of this work do it for the money. Fat lot of good that will do them with their banking system cut off and sanctions shutting down their access to Lamborghinis.

    • The Russian groups who do most of this work do it for the money. Fat lot of good that will do them with their banking system cut off and sanctions shutting down their access to Lamborghinis.

      A suspect Putin has ways of persuading them that doesn't involve money...

      • The Russian groups who do most of this work do it for the money. Fat lot of good that will do them with their banking system cut off and sanctions shutting down their access to Lamborghinis.

        A suspect Putin has ways of persuading them that doesn't involve money...

        This isn't a Star Wars movie, Darth.

        They'll probably just leave the country.

    • A simpler explanation: many service providers cutting off Russia or Russian-based IP addresses from the Internet. I don't mean just the backbone providers (e.g. ISP, VPNs) but some of the higher level "services" such FB and fintech sites used to coordinate and pay for such attacks.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by PPH ( 736903 )

        I wouldn't be surprised if the command and control for most of these attacks is hosted in Europe and/or the USA.

        • Yes, but they'd still have to connect from an IP based in their country, which would limit their ability to launch targeted attacks.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by PPH ( 736903 )

            connect from an IP based in their country

            Develop attack plan. Load onto laptop or thumb drive. Cross border into neighboring neutral country. Borrow cafe WiFi and upload to C&C servers.

  • To think that even a year ago, people around the world were scared of Russia. We thought of Putin as some sort of James Bond supervillain. Now we know Russia is just a looted out junk heap of failures, and Putin is a puffy old man with delusions of rebuilding a failed empire.

    Russians of Slashdot, can you do anything right, besides starve? You are cut off from the west, your own country is a hell hole, and even China is turning its back on you, as Russia is a worthless ally who can do nothing but tarnish Chi

    • Which is really sad. Russia has produced some extraordinary geniuses and humanitarians but their various destructive political organizations have held them back.

      • Re:Russia, the world is laughing at you (Score:4, Insightful)

        by AleRunner ( 4556245 ) on Friday March 18, 2022 @01:34PM (#62369331)

        Which is really sad. Russia has produced some extraordinary geniuses and humanitarians but their various destructive political organizations have held them back.

        This has been this way for a long time. The differences between the Nazis and the Communists in WWII are truly interesting. The Germans were actively self-motivated and murdered people as a kind of duty. Almost no coercion was needed. There's a statement in various history books that "no Germany has been seriously punished for refusing to murder jews" - even German officers who failed to follow orders were at times just worked around by the people around them.

        On the other hand, the Russians/Soviets, overall, were probably more vicious in many was and definitely ended up killing more people overall (mostly due to starvation in Ukraine, but also all sorts of bad things in the territories they took over), however the individual Russian/Soviets quite often refused to carry out acts of cruelty like burning old peasants out of their homes. Those that stood up for decency like this were quite often murdered on the spot by the NKVD. The contrast with the Germans is quite stark.

        During the war there was plenty of resistance in Nazi occupied Europe, however in Soviet occupied Europe this was crushed. Often the prisons that the Nazis had used were simply taken over and in fact made worse than they had been previously when the Soviets occupied them. This knowledge is the reason that Ukranians are fighting now whilst they still have a chance, knowing that they aren't likely to be able to fight later when they realise they have no other real choice.

        • I spoke to a german soldier who fought in WWII and he vigorously claimed they did not know what was happening back home, no knowledge of the concentration camps or atrocities. Remember most of that stuff was handled by the SS.

          • It's believable, considering now we have reports of Russian soldiers who don't even know they are in Ukraine.

          • I would suggest for you the book The SS: Alibi of a Nation, by Gerald Reitlinger [commentary.org] - many more people made the claim of no knowledge that can possibly be true. I can't comment on your specific soldier, of course, but for many people ignorance is very convenient.

          • Germans were indeed not aware of all that was going on. My mother in law told me her grandmother's favourite neighborhood boy came back on weekend leave, he supposedly served in a camp. He didn't smile even though he was typically a cheerful boy. He just said "if you'd seen what I've seen, you could never be happy again". The next morning his family found him hanging from a rope.

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by hey! ( 33014 )

        It's the corruption. That's why I'm not worried about China's defense spending outstripping the US soon. US defense procurement is a bit corrupt; there's no way we're getting our money's worth, but Chinese corruption is on a whole different level, and Russia is on a level even beyond *that*.

        Corruption has done more to cripple the Russian economy and military than western sanctions have. And corruption is the inevitable consequence of the authoritarian mindset. When politicians have control of their own

        • We have the right type of corruption that raises costs instead of reducing quality, and that leads us to buy more cutting edge equipment than any reasonable person would recommend.

          So our corruption tends to result in well equipped forces and corporate welfare, while the Russian (Chinese?) style leads to broken equipment, low morale, and direct enrichment of useless (wealthy) people.

          • We have the right type of corruption that raises costs instead of reducing quality

            Right, we have corruption that some people can see, and other people don't agree it is even corruption. For example, building a weapons factory to create new jobs without competing with existing business is seem by some as economic development, and by others as "corruption." Paying high prices for equipment is, as you allude, seen by some as corruption, but by others as intentional subsidy of the military-industrial complex. Even the words "military-industrial complex" are seen as something sinister by some

            • Authoritarians tend to discourage their military from being too competent because they don't like a competing power base. If it gets too strong, it could depose them. Xi is very aware of this (based on comments he made).

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by hey! ( 33014 )

              China's military is pretty corrupt. Promotions for bribery are a serious problem in the PLA, and the PLA runs a number of business ventures that a well placed officer can skim money from. It's actually to Xi's credit he's trying to crack down, but he's limited in what he can do. You can't be an authoritarian leader without control of the military, and too hard a crackdown could undermine his control.

              • You can't be an authoritarian leader without control of the military, and too hard a crackdown could undermine his control.

                It's a serious long-term problem for the prospect of autocratic empire-building.

    • We're all still afraid of Russia because Russia has nukes. Which is why MAD works. Which is why nuclear anti-proliferation is just a modern tool of colonialism.

      I don't think Russia would use nukes, but it's a pretty big risk to test. Best case scenario is we lose a couple Western cities while Russia loses Moscow and we all kill hundreds of millions of people in an afternoon.

      • No, we are not afraid of Russia because it has nukes. Despite Putin the Gay's bravado, he can't order a nuclear strike on a whim. There are still people in the chain of command who would refuse to do so without some overarching, external threat. Of which there is none right now. Not even his most sycophantic toadies would blindly use nukes.

        There is no risk at the moment of any nuclear weapon being used. Not even the oncoming collapse of the Russian military in Ukraine would push that to happen.

        • Overarching External Threat sounds like the name of a Russian propaganda film to me. One that the generals on down would be shown ad nauseum.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by UpnAtom ( 551727 )

          There are still people in the chain of command who would refuse to do so without some overarching, external threat. .

          There is no risk at the moment of any nuclear weapon being used.

          We don't know that. But I don't think Putin wants to die and I don't think his advisors & their families do either.

          The FSB whistleblower is probably correct and we're now at a dangerous point. He says Russia is on a hiding to nothing unless military conquest can make up for it. Will sanity or insanity reign?

          Not even the oncoming collapse of the Russian military in Ukraine would push that to happen

          When Putin was doing the early talks with Macron, he impied nukes would only be used if NATO was going to take Russian territory. Whether that includes Crimea I don't know.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by spun ( 1352 )

        Do they have nukes though? We thought they had an army too. Turns out, it's Potemkin Villages all the way down. I bet the troops in charge of the nukes sold the rocket igniters to pay for vodka when their pay was six months late, again.

        • What we have discovered is that what Russia lacks in precision arms and logistics, they compensate for by using older, more brutal arms. Sounds like nukes are the type of thing they are actually good at.

          Even if half their nukes are propaganda, and half of what's left is busted, and half of that is attached to guidance systems that "miss" half the time, they still have enough to wipe out human life.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by spun ( 1352 )

            Funny, a few weeks ago I would have found that scary. Russians are such clowns, I just can't even find the threat of them launching their nukes scary. Russia doesn't have the capacity to wipe out human life. They can't even wipe their own asses. Ten bucks says they have to pull out of Ukraine in less than a month.

    • Putin is a puffy old man with delusions of rebuilding a failed empire.

      Into a larger failed empire. Seriously, he's bombing Ukraine to rubble for what, to rule over rubble? Seems like the man has been taking too many long daytime naps [slashdot.org] ...

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by spun ( 1352 )

        He doesn't want the competition from their newly discovered oil and gas resources. He wants their water for Crimea. He wants warm water ports. He wants a pro-Russian, anti-western government. The economy, infrastructure and citizens, he doesn't care about at all.

        • He doesn't want the competition from their newly discovered oil and gas resources. He wants their water for Crimea. He wants warm water ports. He wants a pro-Russian, anti-western government. The economy, infrastructure and citizens, he doesn't care about at all.

          Hmm... That's an odd way for Putin to "get rid of Nazis in Ukraine."

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by spun ( 1352 )

            Having to drive into battle in thirty year old garbage trucks? Yeah, Russians did Nazi that coming.

          • It kind of makes sense, because the Nazis (Azov Battalion) are in the section of prime land between Crimea and Russia. All Russia has to do is pretend they got rid of the Nazis, and they can keep the land.

    • A month ago, people were afraid of Russia. Then they actually tried to use their military that the officers and politicians have been stealing money from for a couple decades, and we found out exactly what they're capable of - tipping off regime change in Moscow due to their war criminal kleptocrat cunt of a president starting a war of choice with the poorest nation in Europe and getting thoroughly embarrassed militarily by school teachers and shopkeepers handed rifles at the local police station while at

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by spun ( 1352 )

        Well put. That is exactly how I feel about them. Maybe it's a bit of an over reaction, given how scary we thought they were it is natural to laugh at them now, from relief if nothing else. But I am just flabbergasted by how amateur hour they have proven to be. An absolute shitshow, and Putin firing half the Kremlin isn't going to help, either him or Russia.

        I think Putin was right to be terrified of going out like Ghaddafi. I think that's exactly what he will get in the end. Pun intended.

        • I think Putin was right to be terrified of going out like Ghaddafi. I think that's exactly what he will get in the end.

          OK, but who would do it to him?

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by spun ( 1352 )

            Maybe the oligarch that put a bounty on his head? Maybe an angry mob? I don't know, but there are a lot of people who would want to. I kinda suspect the amount of support he has in Russia is overstated. Just a bit.

      • My favorite is the farmer towing away a tank while a running soldier tries to keep up. I'd really like to know the end of that story.

    • Russians of Slashdot, can you do anything right, besides starve?

      They still have their sock puppets, and strangely, those are the only accounts with mod points! roflcopter

    • We thought of Putin as some sort of James Bond supervillain. Now we know Russia is just a looted out junk heap of failures, and Putin is a puffy old man with delusions of rebuilding a failed empire.

      Ok, but he's still killing people. Mariupol needs help, now.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by spun ( 1352 )

        Absolutely. The war crimes are sickening. So glad they managed to do a prisoner swap for the mayor, at least. I firmly believe the west could do more, and Putin would not be able to stop it. No one believe his threats anymore, except his brainwashed followers.

  • The country's experience fending off major cyber attacks since 2015 may have helped prepare it for recent attempts, they added.

    In other words, Russia's test run turned out to be Ukraine's test run as well.

    It is said that Generals tend to prepare to fight the last war. It would seem that state-run hackers do as well.

    • Not only did they get to test their defenses, but they also had almost 8 years to beef up training and equipment. The delta between Ukraine 2014 and Ukraine 2022 in capabilities is probably pretty big, while Russia sort of just maintained.

      • If anything, Russia back-slid due to any and all expenditures always having a slice taken out by the kleptocrats.

        The Boss wants his taste, after all.

    • It is said that Generals tend to prepare to fight the last war.

      So far, four Russian generals have been killed in three weeks. They have definitely fought their last war.

      • And now that we're getting details on how that has happened to at least one, it just makes Russia look even more pathetic. He was using a regular old cell phone to talk to other Russian commanders - which Ukraine was able to trap and trace and drop ordinance on. Their plan was clearly to use the existing Ukrainian cellular network for military communications instead of bringing their own isolated and secured communications gear.

        This invasion has all the sophistication of a few dipshit bank robbers casing

        • Yup. I mentioned that death in another post.

          Absolutely amazing the complete lack of anything resembling planning or coordination. I have heard some pundits say the next week or so will be deciding factor, that Russia might be so depleted in manpower and supplies that they can't sustain their invasion.

          One can only hope.

      • Those are battlefield generals. The really corrupt generals are still back in Moscow.

  • At some point, when there are planes, tanks, missiles, RPG, commandos, paratroopers, insurgents, guerilla attacks, refugees, prisoners of wars, etc, there reaches a point where cyber attacks have little effect. With buildings destroyed, lack of electricity, a humanitarian crisis, 2.5 million refugees, what effect could cyber attacks really have on the war? Denial of service attacks, defacing websites, deepfakes of Ukrainian leaders: None of that will meaningfully change the kinetic nature of the war.

    • The chief advantage of taking down wireless and data networks is to prevent the defenders from easily coordinating. While doubtless Ukraine's military has its own means of communication, the publicly available networks allow civilians to communicate and to send out evidence of Russian atrocities, which poses the risk of Russians back in Russia seeing what their soldiers are up to, as well as possibly hampering the ability of non-state militias to coordinate. So while it probably doesn't pose a significant r

      • Turns out that the Russian Army's ability to communicate securely [datacenterdynamics.com] needed those cell towers too. That might even be the reason why so many of their generals have been killed.

    • This war provides a reality-check on the capabilities of cyberwarfare. It is a sometimes-effective hit-or-miss thing in reality that can cause disruption, or not, and is nothing like an explosive bomb whose effects are predictable and catastrophic.

      One issue is that in regular peacetime cyberattacks they are targets of opportunity and only the successful ones make any news and virtually any system is fair game for an attack. In warfare you have to hit specific targets at the appropriate time to have any usef

  • It's possible that Russian cyber attacks were more subdued since they expected that Ukraine would surrender quickly and they didn't want to permanently damage infrastructure that they would "inherit".

    • As opposed to the infrastructure Russia is shelling and destroying every day?

      Considering these morons took out cell towers, the very thing they needed for their encryption process to work, I don't think they are that much concerned with damaging infrastructure.

      • More than that, they set up stingray-style cellphone interception devices to try to intercept calls from Ukrainian fighters, which further degraded their own shit and made their fancy cryptophones useless.

        I thought these dipshits had a space program - they don't have satellite field communications gear?

  • It's likely that much of the network infiltration is being done quietly. If the Russians have successfully breached some networks and are using those breaches to collect information, it's likely they'll keep that activity hidden and out of the news. Even if Ukraine detects such a breach, they'll probably keep quiet about it.

  • ...if the vaunted Russian cyber warriors are having trouble penetrating Ukraine, what does that do to the narrative that they are a genuine threat to democracy?

    I mean, it's either that USA cyber defenses are less than Ukraine's...or perhaps those threats might have been exaggerated a teensy bit?

    Why would anyone do such a thing?

    • ...if the vaunted Russian cyber warriors are having trouble penetrating Ukraine, what does that do to the narrative that they are a genuine threat to democracy?

      I mean, it's either that USA cyber defenses are less than Ukraine's...or perhaps those threats might have been exaggerated a teensy bit?

      Why would anyone do such a thing?

      Why do you think Russia is having trouble penetrating Ukraine's networks? TFA is about DOS attacks, not penetration. They're probably spending their time penetrating, not disabling, the networks.

  • Do we really believe anything Ukra
    • (stupid mobile keyboard and the submit button right above it). Do we really believe what Ukrain officials tell these days, they've been on a major propaganda media tour the russian would be proud of with all the false news.

      • I don't know which propaganda you are talking about. It seems pretty clear that Russia invaded, and the Russian military is not doing very well.

      • You're starting that as if we have sides to choose. We don't. But you're right we shouldn't believe anything just like that. It's called the fog of war. It's not that the truth dies, just that you don't want your opponent to know what state you're really in. Who doesn't realise this has no place in a discussion about the current situation.

  • Replace Ukraine with IRAQ and Russia with AMERICA
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

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