More States are Trying to Attract Remote Workers (politico.com) 75
Remote-worker incentive programs are gradually expanding beyond Hawaii, Vermont, Indiana, and Tulsa, Oklahoma. Now Charleston, West Virginia is offering a $5,000 "relocation credit" to remote workers. And Ascend WV is offering $12,000 (with a year of free whitewater rafting, rock climbing and skiing...)
Politico discussed the strategies behind luring remote workers with former Intuit CEO Brad Smith (who helped launch the Ascend WV program) and Jim Justice, the state's billionaire governor: At a news conference in April, Justice announced the launch of the program alongside a bill signing of legislation that overhauls the state's corporate income tax law that he said would make West Virginia "the most attractive state in the nation for remote workers and for all businesses." A joyful Justice called West Virginians "frogs proud of their own pond" and labeled Ascend the No. 1 remote worker relocation program in the nation...
The idea is that West Virginia can become "the start-up state," Smith explains to me on a call from his home in Menlo Park, Calif. If you can incentivize ambitious, business minded folks to give overlooked West Virginia a chance, they'll fall in love with the place and stay for good, setting off a domino effect to jumpstart the state economy by creating new businesses and hiring locally, all while giving back to the state in tax dollars along the way and reversing the population decline. And the pool of remote workers is tenfold what it was before the pandemic now that employers everywhere are changing the way they view office work, which could mean high earners will consider a place with a low cost of living where their money can go further — like West Virginia.
A key selling point for Smith is that Ascend participants won't be competing for local jobs; they already have jobs elsewhere. Instead, they'll be spending their money locally, engaging with the community and seeing a place they never would have given a chance before, Smith says... "And their income is taxed in our state, which then creates tax funds to invest in infrastructure."
Prithwiraj Choudhury, a professor at Harvard Business School who studies remote work, believes programs like Ascend can have a positive long-term impact for host cities and will be a "game changer" for places like West Virginia. The Tulsa Remote program, operated by the George Kaiser Family Foundation, has shown payoff in both income tax revenue, projecting a boost of $1.4 million in 2020, and in community engagement; many of the 300-some participants continue to volunteer locally, according to Choudhury's research. Twenty-seven homes have been purchased by Tulsa Remote workers, according to the latest count. "Work from anywhere is here to stay, and people are going to relocate both permanently and for short durations," Choudhury said. "I think policy makers and politicians should view this as an opportunity for attracting tech workers and future entrepreneurs."
That focus on making outsiders happy, though, is at the root of the criticism of programs like Ascend.
Politico discussed the strategies behind luring remote workers with former Intuit CEO Brad Smith (who helped launch the Ascend WV program) and Jim Justice, the state's billionaire governor: At a news conference in April, Justice announced the launch of the program alongside a bill signing of legislation that overhauls the state's corporate income tax law that he said would make West Virginia "the most attractive state in the nation for remote workers and for all businesses." A joyful Justice called West Virginians "frogs proud of their own pond" and labeled Ascend the No. 1 remote worker relocation program in the nation...
The idea is that West Virginia can become "the start-up state," Smith explains to me on a call from his home in Menlo Park, Calif. If you can incentivize ambitious, business minded folks to give overlooked West Virginia a chance, they'll fall in love with the place and stay for good, setting off a domino effect to jumpstart the state economy by creating new businesses and hiring locally, all while giving back to the state in tax dollars along the way and reversing the population decline. And the pool of remote workers is tenfold what it was before the pandemic now that employers everywhere are changing the way they view office work, which could mean high earners will consider a place with a low cost of living where their money can go further — like West Virginia.
A key selling point for Smith is that Ascend participants won't be competing for local jobs; they already have jobs elsewhere. Instead, they'll be spending their money locally, engaging with the community and seeing a place they never would have given a chance before, Smith says... "And their income is taxed in our state, which then creates tax funds to invest in infrastructure."
Prithwiraj Choudhury, a professor at Harvard Business School who studies remote work, believes programs like Ascend can have a positive long-term impact for host cities and will be a "game changer" for places like West Virginia. The Tulsa Remote program, operated by the George Kaiser Family Foundation, has shown payoff in both income tax revenue, projecting a boost of $1.4 million in 2020, and in community engagement; many of the 300-some participants continue to volunteer locally, according to Choudhury's research. Twenty-seven homes have been purchased by Tulsa Remote workers, according to the latest count. "Work from anywhere is here to stay, and people are going to relocate both permanently and for short durations," Choudhury said. "I think policy makers and politicians should view this as an opportunity for attracting tech workers and future entrepreneurs."
That focus on making outsiders happy, though, is at the root of the criticism of programs like Ascend.
West Virginia (Score:5, Insightful)
WV has a lot of great stuff to do but I don't think I could ever imagine living there. Probably for a young couple thinking about kids who doesn't really enjoy city night life, it seems like it could be fair. More than that, while these are sound moves by these individuals, generally the politics and cultural thought of WV is super backwards. Again beautiful place and great whitewater which honestly alone makes it a bit tempting but being single in an area like this I think would be rather challenging especially considering how picky most modern folks are with their partners. Likewise I feel liberals would have to completely avoid any local political news just to not flip shit.
Maybe I am wrong, anyone WV techies want to enlighten me?
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
If I were thinking about kids, I would not want to entrust them to the schools there. Local politics is as maddening as you said, even if you are a conservative or a Trumpist the corruption is sickening.
It took me a series of lucky breaks to get out of there. I am not going back.
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Remote work is a career dead end. Never ever forget, remote workers will be the first to be first and the last to be rehired. Only suitable for semi-retired workers with real capital assets. For young workers a career dead end, don't do it. First to be fired and you can bet it will be the future lark. Need to fire workers, make them remote first, the rest get used to their absence, and first you halve the contracts (straight pay reduction or reduced hours), then you simply end the contracts, no muss, no fus
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PS I did remote work, it was fun and easy, starting the day straight out of bed and well, high performer, so I could do the work in half the time but I could see how disconnected it made you, how reliant on that department handing out the work and how you had no contacts in the rest of the industry. A real career dead end, so I stopped quick smart before too much damage was done before I became too industry disconnected.
There is a world of difference between sitting down with someone over lunch and an emai
That's a very specific situation. 25 years remote (Score:5, Interesting)
Your second post here makes a heck of a lot more sense than the first one, to me.
Sure you don't want to be the one person working 100% remote while everyone else goes to lunch together. At that point you're halfway out the door - literally.
On the other hand, I've worked from home for the vast majority of my 25-year career, and it's been a very good career. That's been in organizations where many of the best people work from home, at least half the week.
My experience has been the exact opposite of "remote workers are the first to go". The one and only time a company "didn't renew my contract" was a job in which I went to the office. Which provided an opportunity for office politics and a conversation that wasn't directly related to the project I was working on to get messy.
The people (plural) allowed to work from home in the organizations I've worked for fall into two overlapping groups:
1. People who have proven they do the job well and don't need to be in office in order to get work done
2. People whose expertise, skills, or abilities make them valuable enough that the boss/company is willing to give them them whatever they need in order to keep them around.
Many people can be MORE productive from their home base and more productive means more valuable. Not only can one work a bit MORE instead of spending time driving, but you're working in the most comfortable environment. In my case it means I have at my disposal the full SOC (security operations center) that I've built over the years, including a rack full of Cisco gear three laptops on my desk at the moment, and a dozen VMs I've built for various tasks.
So yeah don't be the *only* person working from home when everyone else is in the office. Unless of course you have special skills, unless your boss would have no idea how to do your job.
Also if your job (or the way you approach your job) consists primarily consists of schmoozing, sure schmoozing works better in person. For me, seeing someone face-to-face every day may be more likely give us opportunities to get annoyed with each other. Passing *the work* to each other remotely works well when the job is focused on the work rather than the schmoozing.
I did have one frustrating and kinda funny "work from home" experience. Five or six years ago I got an offer for a job that roughly doubled my take-home pay. But I'd need to move to a different city, a more expensive city. I moved to Dallas and the job was going well. After a about two months, most people in the office starting working from home two or three days a week. Within a year or so the office was mostly empty - everyone worked from home all the time. One of the managers begged people to come in once a week, on Fridays, and that lasted a few months but pretty soon there would be maybe two people in the office on a Friday.
So I moved to a new city to work remote. Frustrating, but kinda funny.
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Your second post here makes a heck of a lot more sense than the first one, to me.
Sure you don't want to be the one person working 100% remote while everyone else goes to lunch together. At that point you're halfway out the door - literally.
On the other hand, I've worked from home for the vast majority of my 25-year career, and it's been a very good career. That's been in organizations where many of the best people work from home, at least half the week.
The big question is whether most companies or positions offer a choice. Many big silicon valley companies have already announced that the policy will be no choice, with a choice of days to work from home but also a requirement to go to the office some days each week. Whether one has a choice depends on one's specific company and position.
The other huge consideration is whether to accept the huge salary cut with remote work. This axe hasn't fallen yet, but it will for many companies. It will completely c
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> Many big silicon valley companies ...
> The other huge consideration is whether to accept the huge salary cut with remote work
I don't know what kind of pay differences you're seeing, but here is what I keep hearing from Silicon Valley workers. First, they feel like they need to live there because if their job, but they really struggle from the lack of housing that makes everything so expensive. (The plumber and the dentist also have to pay a lot for their own homes, so they charge more).
Secondly, the
Re: West Virginia (Score:1)
I agree. Full time remote work=instant drop in status and rank in the eyes of the office bound employees. It's human nature and unavoidable in an enviroment where you are competing with your peers.
The way I see it, you better start hunting for another job right away because you will get the axe, much sooner than later.
Re: West Virginia (Score:2)
I don't know why this was modded down, but if you want to see this in action, try remote work for a couple months, and come back to the office in a couple months. You might have to eavesdrop a bit because they will just butter you up with bullshit and fake smiles in a face to face encounter, but you will discover that they don't hold you in high regard now.
It sucks. I'd rather be working at home, and not deal with office politics, bullshit shmoozing, and having to fake laugh at bad jokes. But the truth is i
Re:West Virginia (Score:5, Insightful)
Isn't all work pretty much a career dead end, now? Promotions stopped being a thing long ago, and if you wanted a raise you just offered the expertise you acquired in one company at a premium to the next.
It's an employer's market at the entry level, but people with skills and experience are extremely valuable and can negotiate on their own terms.
Remember that the new generation grew up with a completely different mentality. They don't want to hustle and pile up money and paid overtime. They value their time and well-being much more than their employer's office.
Re:West Virginia (Score:5, Funny)
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Isn't all work pretty much a career dead end, now? Promotions stopped being a thing long ago, and if you wanted a raise you just offered the expertise you acquired in one company at a premium to the next.
Job Hopping has always been a thing. But you do it early in a career to get your wages up. I doubled my salary over three years that way - in a weird twist, I went back to the first place I left
It's an employer's market at the entry level, but people with skills and experience are extremely valuable and can negotiate on their own terms.
Exactly. I retired 10 years ago at 55, and ended up taking a half remote, half present job because the offer was just impossible to refuse. More on that below.
Remember that the new generation grew up with a completely different mentality. They don't want to hustle and pile up money and paid overtime. They value their time and well-being much more than their employer's office.
Yeah - I try t
Re: West Virginia (Score:2)
Promotions stopped being a thing long ago
Some people just aren't interested in climbing the corporate ladder. Why would someone go to school, learn a subject they are interested in and then fight for a management job that involves signing time sheets? Many professionals (doctors, lawyers, etc.) plan to be doing the same thing for their entire career. The corporate job ladder was just a way to get people to fight for scraps.
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I've had plenty of promotions and raises, even this year. Not a thing of the past if your company values you and you are not a cookie-cutter worker.
Re:West Virginia (Score:4, Informative)
On the contrary, remote work is great for your career. I've been doing it for a few years now and as well as having access to a very large job market (not just jobs near where I want to live) it's much easier to do interviews when you do want to switch.
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I think their points are still fair. It's kind of like contract work. Job security probably follows like this: FTE on-site, FTE remote, contractor. I think the difference is that contractors can often have niche skillsets that are needed for short periods, so they expect contracts to last a limited time. This being said, your points are very valid. You can look for jobs in a number of areas and if your skillset is rather valuable, which may even come from dealing with less bullshit, then you probably can ha
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On the contrary, remote work is great for your career. I've been doing it for a few years now and as well as having access to a very large job market (not just jobs near where I want to live) it's much easier to do interviews when you do want to switch.
You two are both right. It all depends on your skillset. in my half remote/half present work, I have a singular skillset that combines technical savvy with an ability to communicate and get along with stressed people that makes me valuable.
Some work is great remote.
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Remote work is a career dead end.
Sounds like one of those truisms our parents might say. Problem is remote-work in any kind of meaningful numbers is a recent phenomenon, made prominent by the pandemic. In other words it hasn't been around long enough to say if it's a career dead-end. Much like gig-economy some social movements have to run their course, leaving the "experimental" category.
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Worse than that. If your job can be done remote, it can be done in India, Eastern Europe, or Africa for far cheaper. If the remote push does work, you've just destroyed the salary in your industry.
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Jim Justice, the state's billionaire governor
Red Flag #1
"make West Virginia the most attractive state in the nation for remote workers and for all businesses."
Red Flag #2
"Business Friendly" == The taxpayers are going to get fucked.
"And their income is taxed in our state, which then creates tax funds to invest in infrastructure."
And there it is: Instead of businesses paying their fair share of taxes, let's push everything off onto the workers and make them responsible for all the revenue needed for infrastructure.
West Virginia is nothing but a bunch of retarded hillbillies who make Donald Trump look like a genius by comparison. And more tax breaks for businesses and billionaires isn't going to change that.
The grifters just keep on grifting.
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There's a major push to abolish the State income tax here in WV. It's a two-fisted grab for money by the rich, but most of our funds come from the Federal Gov't, not local income tax. Most of "the people" are poor and the income tax is a theoretical bogeman, not a real cost center for them.
WV is already "business friendly" compared to Maryland, but corporate tax isn't why companies move here. WV (Eastern Panhandle) has decent transportation infrastructure and are just a couple hours drive/train from half th
Re: West Virginia (Score:2)
Not down here in the southern part, it's a meth zombie redneck hell hole.
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It's weird for me to think of WV as an area with rednecks. I think the OPs use of hillbillies is more apt. The meth part though totally makes sense.
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WV has a lot of great stuff to do but I don't think I could ever imagine living there. Probably for a young couple thinking about kids who doesn't really enjoy city night life, it seems like it could be fair. More than that, while these are sound moves by these individuals, generally the politics and cultural thought of WV is super backwards. Again beautiful place and great whitewater which honestly alone makes it a bit tempting but being single in an area like this I think would be rather challenging especially considering how picky most modern folks are with their partners. Likewise I feel liberals would have to completely avoid any local political news just to not flip shit.
Maybe I am wrong, anyone WV techies want to enlighten me?
My time and travels in West Virginia show me that it is a beautiful place if you avoid the mountaintopped areas when they remove entire tops of mountains and dump them in the next valley over. There is a wide range of people types, with the dominant one being "redneck". One odd thing I noticed is that outside any city, Camo Stores are really big.
I wouldn't want to raise a family there.
Re: West Virginia (Score:1)
WV sucks unless you're a hateful ass redneck Christian.
Re:West Virginia (Score:5, Informative)
I'm a senior tech worker, age 53, married w/family, and live in the Eastern Panhandle of WV. I live here because my job is in DC and the cost of living is 1/4 to 1/3 of what it would be if I was in closer -- especially housing.
Before Covid I varied between 5 days in office (2 hours commute by train) to 3 days in and 2 telework. With Covid I'm full telework and not going back. Management is only bringing back people who have jobs that need them to be in the office. That's about 10% of our workforce.
The area is gorgeous and if you like outdoor activities -- rock climing, hiking, canoeing, hunting, fishing, whitewater, etc. -- the area is the best east of the Rockies. It is amazing. If you like urban nightlife, then its a desert unless you're trolling for meth addict prostitutes. The Uni towns of Morgantown and Shepherstown are exceptions as they have a semblance of a nightlife.
Most of the political climate is -- weird. This is Trump Country because people are desparate, but this isn't Texas or Idaho. Our (R) Governor, while a typically corrupt political jerk in general, has been exceptional in handling Covid. Honestly, for the most part, Mining, what isn't already gone, is rapidly going away and there isn't much to replace it, and WV sets the record for drug addicition. The State and our politicos are pushing hard for broadband everywhere, but unless you're in a key city or region, it is currently very poor with no prospects. They're trying hard, but it you're in tech you need to be either Eastern Panhandle, Charleston, or Morgantown.
The liberal bastions are Shepherdstown (I known) and Morgantown (I think). I live near Shepherdstown, so can speak directly to that. WVU is in Morgantown, but I can't speak first-hand for that area.
My youngest of four is age 12 and in middle school. The school system in Jefferson County (furthest Eastern Panhandle) is the best I've seen. They're fantastic. Berkeley County (Martinsburg) is meh.
Young tech professional thinking about WV? Come to Harpers Ferry or Shepherdsown. Best vegan [yelp.com] restaurant in America; superb outdoor [nps.gov] activities; craft brews [harpersferrybrewing.com], local roast offee [blackdogcoffee.net], local commuter train to DC if you have to, Frederick, MD a short drive away if you need a nightlife fix, and easy access to BWI and IAD for travel. if you hear banjo music, you've gone too far.
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Your comment is superb. Your points about outdoor activities and no nightlife seemed exactly what I expected and I think that could attract certain tech workers but my expectation was those who were not seriously concerned with dating, such as yourself.
Your insights on the politics are great. I knew it was Trump territory and the heavy mining industry focus but not as much about the positives. The handling of COVID makes sense when your economy is focused on the activities we mentioned, that makes it much e
Re:West Virginia (Score:5, Informative)
Grew up in Morgantown, WV, have family there still, and will be visiting here shortly for a week.
Okay, here's the problem with WV- They consistently shoot themselves in the foot.
With a shotgun. And for some explainable reason, they take great PRIDE of this act of self-sabotage and general dislike of book smarts.
Morgantown has always had this dual personality, the University crowd and the locals. You see this in a lot of smaller University / College towns, but never at this level. Every time someone tries to make something nice it inadvertently fails because better options are a short drive to Pittsburgh or DC exist.
Very few locals take advantage of what the WVU offers, specially for their children.
Music, theater, arts, math and science courses offered at no cost / low cost. Who's enrolled in them? Mainly the children of the professors.
Outside of Morgantown, it's further nuts. Elkin's WV, which was founded by Swiss immigrants, kept their traditions alive and still celebrated today, but is generally unknown outside of the state. Tamarack near New River, showcases native artistic talent. The White House crystal was made at Seneca Glass Company out of Morgantown.
The list goes on and on.
You can blame the mountains, you can blame the lack of good paying jobs, but in the end, it comes down to the lack of education, the dislike of educated people, and the fear of change.
And here is where it's sad: WV has had a lot of really capable, able, smart people come from it, but that's my point, they came from WV. They didn't stay because they knew there are limited options and choices, and thus had no other choice but to leave.
Re: West Virginia (Score:2)
You're 100% right there are a lot of anti intellectuals here that are proud of and wallow in their ignorance. I have a tech job in the coal industry and coal has started booming again. The coal industry is having trouble filling jobs because all of the experienced coal miners left after the last coal crash for other types of mining jobs. Coal is used for more than making electricity, it's also used for making metal. That type of coal is referred to as metallurgical coal and its very valuable.
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This was my understanding of the people and I think in general it would be very unsettling to most individuals. However, if I was a parent, opportunities you mention like WVU seem like a good option to help your kid avoid killer debt as they explore higher education. That's pretty huge value. At an older age too, you aren't really necessarily trying to "go anywhere", so it seems like it could be a decent place to settle. You just basically have to live in a relative bubble to your immediate surrounding cult
Re: West Virginia (Score:2)
I don't think many of the locals are going to take kindly to the gentrification that is to come (if the stereotypes are to be believed). In a big WV city, they'll probally tolarate it, but try to spread it too far out of the city, you will have problems.
Makes sense (Score:3)
In the old days, a state would make major tax concessions to bring these companies in-state so as to employ in-state workers and hopefully collect enouth sales and/or income tax from them make the whole transaction a net positive.
Now, with remote workers, the states get to collect taxes from these relatively well-paid individuals - and do so without having to give away anything to the companies.
Re: Makes sense (Score:2)
Plus all the local spending. I wonder what will happen to all the expensive real estate places in cities that lived off local workers.
Re:Makes sense (Score:5, Interesting)
In the old days, a state would make major tax concessions to bring these companies in-state so as to employ in-state workers and hopefully collect enough sales and/or income tax from them make the whole transaction a net positive.
Yes. That's the sales pitch. And it is a giant fucking lie. There has never been a case where tax breaks for businesses has had long term positive benefits. Never. Ever.
When the tax breaks are about expire, the company starts shopping around for someone else who will give them tax breaks. And then they pit State A against State B: "If you don't give us more tax breaks, we'll move somewhere else." And in the mean time, they never create the number of jobs that were promised. Never.
Just look at Foxconn in Wisconsin, the most recent example of this scam.
Classical stupidity (Score:1)
A key selling point for Smith is that Ascend participants won't be competing for local jobs
Again, for all the retarded children out there, repeat with me: "Lots of (unemployed but otherwise hardworking) people coming to one place won't take away jobs, will create more than they take away. Always."
Believing any other thing is just being blind to history.
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Again, for all the retarded children out there, repeat with me: "Lots of (unemployed but otherwise hardworking) people coming to one place won't take away jobs, will create more than they take away. Always."
The thing you missed out on is "eventually".
Work Location and the Knowledge Economy (Score:2)
On the other hand, there is a risk that this sort of thing can lead to a "race to the bottom" at a national level. Look at the way, for example, that Amazon went around the country supposedly looking for their ne
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Regardless things will not go back to normal. [youtu.be]
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Let's hope.
Come friendly Liberal voters (Score:2, Interesting)
"Please send my body home!" (Score:1)
"Uncle Bonsai" sang about West Virgina, in a very funny tune called "Please Send My Body Home!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
I love the group, they're an embodiment of Tom Leher's claim that the left-wing revolutionaries have all the good songs, as he laid out in the "Folk Song Army" nearly 50 years ago:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
Broadband comes first. (Score:5, Insightful)
Remote work requires good broadband. West Virginia ranks in the bottom 10 [slashdot.org] by most measures. A cozy cabin in the woods is no good for remote work if all it has is dial up.
Remote work is also about the amenities. People live in cheaper places so they can afford to go to concerts, ball games, enroll their kid in camp, etc. West Virginia is way short on these, and the few people who move there will notice it fast.
Re: Broadband comes first. (Score:2)
I'm currently rockin a 7 Mb connect that has been available for less than 10 years. I lost remote jobs living in WV because the internet was too slow.
Re: Broadband comes first. (Score:2)
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For most remote work 7meg down should be enough IF you're the only one using it... and IF the upload is at least 3-5meg. But I'm guessing your 7 down is DSL (or some local wireless) and you're rocking at best a 3/4meg upload. And when you're at the extreme low end of suitable speeds, low latency is pretty important too.
One word: Starlink
Re: Broadband comes first. (Score:2)
Also I'm already signed up for Starlink just waiting for the equipment to become available.
Re: Broadband comes first. (Score:2)
My upload is about 768kb
Couple of problems with the implementation (Score:2)
I see a couple of problems with the implementation WV's going with.
Firstly is that they're aiming to attract businesses with the tax changes. The problem is that all the remote workers moving there would mean increased demand for government services, which have to be paid for somehow. That'll leave people, not companies, paying the taxes for street repair and so on. That may make the state attractive to business, but it'll be a negative point for workers contemplating moving there. It seems to me like the l
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Second, companies are likely to start adjusting pay based on where the worker lives. Moving somewhere with a lower cost of living will come with a cut in pay to match. That'll undercut WV's idea of attracting high-paid workers, because once they move they won't be as highly-paid.
The median household income in West Virginia is currently a bit less than 54K [stlouisfed.org] (compared to 78K in California or 82K in Washington state). Even under the theoretical circumstance you list, a high tech remote worker living in West Virginia is going to be earning far more than that.
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the pandemic showed the states' true colors (Score:3, Interesting)
in more ways than one, so to speak!
I saw which states valued human life (oddly, its NOT the 'right to life' states; not the southern ones who are so hung up on abortion issues) and which states did not.
for the most part, the red states - the southern ones and the flyover ones treat their people the most like slaves compared to the rest of the US. they didn't care if they live or die (well, partially true; live just long enough to keep re-voting the R's in). the environment is polluted and the government is setup to enrich the wealthy and if a few poors end up sick or dead - its the 'cost of opening up' they say.
I want NO PART of the red states and southern states. no part of them at all. dont want to travel there for work, dont want to visit there for fun, dont want to even have my taxes support those freeloaders (to be blunt). odd that they complain about welfare and yet the red states take the most welfare from the successful states. odd how that works out, huh..
and so, you can talk all you want about WVA but that's the very definition of an anti-progress hellhole.
sure, lets all move to states that hate black people and do anything they can to suppress votes and keep the Big Lie(tm) running.
progressives - which are the heart and soul of the tech movement - generally want no part of the red state mentality, either.
so, good luck attracting actual talent. only god knows what kind of person would PREFER to move to a red state, given what we've all see the last 18 months or so.
true colors were shown. before, we just thought they'd treat people badly. now, we know for sure
fuck that.
cali is expensive but we did the shutdown and now are doing the re-open properly. safely and intelligently.
had I not seen this happen over the last year and a half, I'd only partially believe it. we sure got an eyeful about how different our country is, going across the states.
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...and the red state VOTE-DOWN brigate has shown up, bright and early, today.
and you didn't disappoint, either.
slash has lost most of its progressive stance over the years. the paid red shills have done their job.
everything good eventually gets ruined by you guys. sigh.
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I saw which states valued human life (oddly, its NOT the 'right to life' states; not the southern ones who are so hung up on abortion issues) and which states did not.
We're not going to settle this here.
I'm sure if you asked people living in those states, they'd say they valued living life, not just being alive. They'd likely also say they valued things in addition to just being alive, like liberty and autonomy.
Like I said, we're likely to not agree on this. I'm sure there will be herds of PhD's studying this for decades to come.
And the you lose your remote job (Score:2)
All for remote work, but (Score:2)
I think there are a number of challenges that certain places have for effective remote work that would make me skeptical. My little list:
For me personall
Beautiful geography kills West Virginia (Score:2)
It's a curse more than a blessing because the road net is terrible and thanks to the mountains will remain narrow with many steep grades. It's too expensive to fix. Geography kills logistics aand the culture (though polite and friendly!) is utterly rustic. Joe Manchin, last of the Dixiecrats. reflects this. It has some potential as a retirement state but would (over most of the state) be a terrible location for remote work.
Terrain kills broadband buildout and frequently interferes with cell reception. I enj
Re: Beautiful geography kills West Virginia (Score:3)
No shit we need to legalize cannabis here, I've been saying it for years. We'll end up being one of the last to legalize it after all of the states around us have legalized it and there's no real money to be made. Where I live has huge empty fields that used to be full of tobacco and could now be growing some of the best weed in the world. You've never met more backward people in your life, bunch of hateful Christians.
Don't move to WV (Score:2)
It's redneck hell here.
Are they building out fast and reliable internet? (Score:2)
Perhaps also mandating that any new building permits are only granted if wicked fast and cheap internet goes right to your home office?
Setting up subsidised spaces where remote workers can get a cup of Jolt and network face to face?
Ensuring that local education and health facilities are both good and affordable?
If not, it's just the usual political hubris...
Must be hell (Score:2)
Not good (Score:2)
If you can work from home, you can work from India. As someone who has worked from home for over 15 years I've seen THOUSANDS of people get the opportunity to work from home (hell I was on the committee that drafted the rules) and I can tell you with absolute clarity that the only, THE ONLY reason companies are letting people work from home is to field test the ability to offshore that job and they will if possible.
Just at my job alone I saw over 1000 jobs that were allowed to do work from home, ALL OF THEM
Live in West Virginia? (Score:2)
Live in West Virginia?
Fuck no, I'd rather just go to prison for life.
Yes, I've been to WV and in more than a passing way. The state is a shithole with poor infrastructure, poor people, poor government services, shitty schools, a high teen pregnancy rate, few college degrees,little to no environmental restrictions, etc etc etc.
It would not be wrong to cast many of them in a backward light, and if you think that basic human rights are respected in WV, guess again.
The joke used to be that to be a WV State Troo
Relocation credit?? (Score:2)