Return and Enter Are Two Different Keys (daringfireball.net) 306
John Gruber, writing at DaringFireball: A New York Times mini crossword clue over the weekend was based on the notion that "Enter" is just a synonym for the Return key. It's not. They're two different keys that usually perform the same action, but not always. All keyboards have a dedicated Return key -- it's the big key you're thinking of above the right Shift key. On a Mac, the key code when you press Return is 36 [...].
A dedicated Enter key is generally only present on extended keyboards with a numeric keypad -- it's the key in the lower-right corner and is generally the only oversized key on the keyboard that is larger vertically, not horizontally. Its Mac key code is 76 [...]. Just look at such a keyboard: the Return key says "Return", and the Enter key says "Enter". If your keyboard doesn't have a dedicated Enter key, you can type the Enter key by pressing Fn-Return. That's why some Return keys have "Enter" printed in small type above the word "Return". If your keyboard has neither a dedicated Enter key nor an Fn modifier key, I don't think you can type Enter. [...]
A dedicated Enter key is generally only present on extended keyboards with a numeric keypad -- it's the key in the lower-right corner and is generally the only oversized key on the keyboard that is larger vertically, not horizontally. Its Mac key code is 76 [...]. Just look at such a keyboard: the Return key says "Return", and the Enter key says "Enter". If your keyboard doesn't have a dedicated Enter key, you can type the Enter key by pressing Fn-Return. That's why some Return keys have "Enter" printed in small type above the word "Return". If your keyboard has neither a dedicated Enter key nor an Fn modifier key, I don't think you can type Enter. [...]
What about the pipe? (Score:3)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
Two enter keys here (Score:5, Informative)
Both my keys are labeled "Enter" on a Microsoft keyboard. I guess if you want to be stuck with the past, you can consider them differently. Enjoy your "scroll lock" key too!
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So your keyboard is mislabeled.
Mine is properly labeled, the key above the right shift says "return".
Re:Two enter keys here (Score:5, Informative)
I have an IBM Model M keyboard circa 1989. The Model M was the keyboard that invented the standard 101 (later 104) key layout that we all use.
And both keys are "Enter".
So basically as far as the IBM PC standard is concerned, they are both "Enter". Other systems, of course, can define things differently. But if you're using a PC, the key above shift is supposed to be called "Enter" according to the company that invented the standard.
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This.
Re:Two enter keys here (Score:5, Informative)
For anyone that have been working with a VT220 terminal the difference is essential.
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"For anyone that have been working with a VT220 terminal the difference is essential."
You were so pampered, you even had a Gold key.
Re:Two enter keys here (Score:5, Funny)
For anyone that have been working with a VT220 terminal the difference is essential.
The VT100 users have asked you step off their porch, and the VT52 user would like all of us to take our toys and get off his lawn.
ancient history (Score:5, Interesting)
For anyone that have been working with a VT220 terminal the difference is essential.
The VT100 users have asked you step off their porch, and the VT52 user would like all of us to take our toys and get off his lawn.
The Return key actually goes back even further. The original computer terminal was the Teletype model 33, which has a key labeled "re-turn" above the right shift key. See https://www.pdp8.net/asr33/pic... [pdp8.net] .
Unlike a mechanical typewriter, the model 33 moved the printing mechanism from left to right, rather than moving the carriage. "Return" thus returned the printing mechanism to the left margin. To print on a model 33 the computer would sent separate "carriage return" and "line feed" characters. That was the origin of the line ending conventions.
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All old printers have separate codes for CR and LF as with CR and then spaces, you would go to a spot where you want to have a bold print and print the same text again. Or you use ^H several times to step back.
An old unix guru once told me you have to codes for CR and LF, because of the slow speed of the serial line, while the "carriage" is "returning" the printer can interpret the next code, usually a LF, and thus going to the next line and waiting for the carriage (printer head) to return could be done in
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All old printers have separate codes for CR and LF as with CR and then spaces, you would go to a spot where you want to have a bold print and print the same text again. Or you use ^H several times to step back.
An old unix guru once told me you have to codes for CR and LF, because of the slow speed of the serial line, while the "carriage" is "returning" the printer can interpret the next code, usually a LF, and thus going to the next line and waiting for the carriage (printer head) to return could be done in a simple way simultaneously.
Your old UNIX Guru was right, but the situation was a bit more complex. Character codes arrived at the model 33 at a rate of 10 per second: 110 bits per second and 11 bit times per character. The print head needed 200 milliseconds, worst case, to return to the left margin and stop moving, whereas the platen could roll the paper up to the next line in 100 milliseconds. Thus, sending Carriage Return followed by Line Feed gave the print head enough time to settle before it printed the first character of the
Re:Two enter keys here (Score:5, Informative)
The Model M is not the original PC Keyboard. It wasn't introduced until a few years later with the XT models. The original IBM 5160 PC had the similar but older Model F as its keyboard. And the "enter" key doesn't have an name printed on it. Just the now universally accepted hooked arrow you see on many enter and return keys.
I dug a little deeper and checked older beam spring keebs from the 70's and they share this convention. As for the Model M itself, what is printed seems to vary by the layout standard used. All of my Model M's say Enter but I can easily find examples that say return. So it seems by IBM's internal convention, the key does not have a name printed and later when they adopted more universal layouts they went with whatever was prescribed.
To get to the heart of the issue on which is "correct", Return is a vestigial and obsolete name. If you look at typewriters you will see it more often than not. And that is because Return is short for Carriage Return. It kicks you down a line and returns the carriage to its starting position. While conceptually you can see how that can apply to word processors and text editors, especially WYSIWYG, there is no carriage on a PC to return. Enter makes far more sense and is more appropriate for an actual computer.
But at the end of the day what really matters is comprehension. And I've yet to meet someone who was confused by either name. We all know what they mean and get on with our day just fine. So call it what you want.
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The Model M is not the original PC Keyboard. It wasn't introduced until a few years later with the XT models.
You're at least the second person in this thread to say something similar, ignoring what the GP actually said in order to correct a mistake that he didn't make. What he actually said was:
The Model M was the keyboard that invented the standard 101 (later 104) key layout that we all use.
The PC/XT keyboard had 83 keys and had the F keys on the left side of the keyboard instead of on the top row. While it was absolutely the first PC keyboard, the GP never claimed otherwise.
Re:Two enter keys here (Score:5, Informative)
On mechanical typewriters, when you finished typing a line, you'd slap a bar with your left hand which would push the carriage back to the right, and simultaneously advance the platen one line down. If you wanted, these functions could be done separately. You could do just a carriage return if you wanted to overstrike the same line (type in bold). You could do just line feeds if you needed to skip a bunch of lines.
When computers were first introduced, there was no longer a carriage holding paper. So Unix opted to use LF as its line separator character, since on a typewriter that is what separates the lines. The return key would return the cursor to the left side of the line (CR), although most editor-like software would also make it add a life feed. The enter key (on the keypad) was for entering numerical data. Apple continued with this nomenclature (although for some reason they opted to use CR as their line separator character, which doesn't really make sense).
When the PC was introduced, DOS opted to use CR+LF as its line separator character (CRLF). I dunno why; maybe had something to do with IBM being a typewriter company and wanting to remain true to its typewriter roots. Since there's no distinction between return and line feed on a PC, both keys were simply labeled Enter.
(And if you've ever pulled your hair out over converting text files between Unix, PC, and Mac format due to the different use of LF, CR, and CRLF to separate lines, now you know why.)
Re:Two enter keys here (Score:5, Informative)
It goes back to teletype. Carriage return and line feed were two seperate operations, but were usually done together. Carriage return first (because it takes longer mechanically) followed by line feed (those operations could overlap). Teletypes could be connected to each other with no computer between them, so it was important that the receiving teletype gets both the carriage return and line feed. Replace one or both of the devices with a computer and both characters are still sent and received. I have no idea why Unix changed to the 'single character' method, maybe AT&T had teletypes that worked like that.
Re:Two enter keys here (Score:5, Informative)
> But usually on a PC both keys will effectively mean the exact same thing, and send the same inputs.
Actually no, they won't. The inputs will generally be handled very similarly by the OS (and any applications which rely exclusively on the OS's standard text-entry routines), but the keyboard itself sends different codes for each - just as it sends different codes for the left and right versions of the Shift, Ctrl, and Alt keys. Or the numpad keys and their analogs on the main keyboard. Programs have the option of distinguishing between them if it's relevant - most commonly for hotkeys, viewport control, and other such non-typing purposes.
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The inputs will generally be handled very similarly by the OS (and any applications which rely exclusively on the OS's standard text-entry routines), but the keyboard itself sends different codes for each
Correct. But on a PC, the convention is that there is no return key. There are enter, and kp_enter.
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Re:Two enter keys here (Score:5, Informative)
return _technically_ does not equal enter, but that's just being pedantic.
Indeed. To get very pedantic, every single key is different from every other. The left-shift key is different from the right-shift key, and software can distinguish between them by looking at the raw scan codes.
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Indeed, and every press combination and characteristic is also unique. In fact, if one is getting pedantic enough there are variations electrically between individual keystrokes that every use of a key, even the same key intending to perform the same keystroke, is unique. As for what can be distinguished with software it wouldn't surprise me if someone dedicated enough couldn't eventually filter down to individually identifiable human biorhythms which could be extracted from key press jitter and field inter
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It's certainly an odd story. I guess Gruber doesn't have anything left to write about. This is also an odd thread.
If you want to go back to *actual* original keyboards, neither "enter" nor "return" keys were a thing. Instead you had a "carriage return" which was not a key but a big lever. There was often another device (still not a key) that would perform a line feed.
I had a high school teacher one year who was sadistic enough to decide that we needed to have typing class on typewriters. These were more mod
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ASCII 13 (0D) is CR, or Carriage Return, just to add to the fun.
However, the big button above right shift used to also have the icon for carriage return underneath the word "Enter" to signify it has a dual purpose. There wasn't room for it on the other Enter key.
I have used keyboards that had "Enter/CR" on the keycap instead of "Enter" + icon...
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I guess it depends on the keyboard.
I have one of the buckling key keyboards based off the old IBM keyboards the UNICOMP [pckeyboard.com] ones....
As far as I know, this is based off the OLDER original computer keyboards we had from the start of the PC era, and I'd lean towards it's labelling to be somewhat cannon.
So, I don't have a "return" key....the one above the right shift says "enter" and the one of the numeri
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Windows English keyboards don't have a return key. Macintosh keyboards do. You can also see this on the Windows on-screen keyboard. You get an "Enter" key above right-shift (with the event code "Enter"), and another one in the numpad (with the event code "NumpadEnter").
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Some corrective tapes and other items exploited the functionality but they weren't the origin, the origin was that once upon a time the machine needed you to return the carriage by hand because it required more force than could possibly remain after your fingerpress had already provided the force needed to firmly strike an inked hammer on the page.
In what world does any of that sound like something it was ever reasonable to translate to an electronic system? Hell it didn't even make sense to replicate on an
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Eh, no. It had nothing to do with typewriters, it has everything to do with TeleType (TTY). Teletypes and even modern printers need to be told what to do. One function advances to the next line, a different function moves to the beginning of the line. They are independent. If a TTY operator made a mistake he could just hit 'return' and overtype the line with Xs or something. If he wanted do leave vertical space he could hit line feed multiple times. Or he could hit 'return' and while that mechanical
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Re: Two enter keys here (Score:2)
Scroll lock works in excel to move the sheet without changing the selection.
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Scroll lock is actually a key that doesn't have a defined function.
On old terminal type apps, it would often stop the screen from scrolling, where it would either stop at the end of the page, or just pause displaying text.
Back in old days when I use to run a BBS, I had software that would turn on the Scroll lock light when someone was logged into my computer, and turn off when they logged out. It was handy for me to see if someone was using my single node BBS at the time, without having to turn on the disp
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My Dell keyboard is the same way, key over the right shift is just labelled enter, just like the one on the number pad.
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Mine, too, and both return ASCII code 13.
Re:Two enter keys here (Score:4, Insightful)
both return ASCII code 13.
ASCII 13 being shown does not indicate what your keyboard is doing; it indicates what your terminal program is doing.
Keyboards don't send ASCII Codes, they send scancodes.
The Return key or "combined Return/Enter key" is scancode 1C, and the Keypad enter key is
E01C.
Often the software applications people use when reading the inputs will ignore the E0 escape, so both keys will be given the same behavior within terminal emulator/console programs and other application software.
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Lol... what will Microsoft do next? Remove the SysRq and Break Keys?
Btw; Scroll Lock's still used in Excel when you want to move around a spreadsheet easily using the keyboard, and SysRQ's special behavior is still useful for having a debug mode trigger in certain OS such as the Magic SysRQ function.
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I'd love to have a sysrq key that would bring up a terminal with high priority no matter what else the OS was doing.
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--It would be nice, but something of a security issue. That sort of thing is suitable for a hypervisor interface. You could gimmick a high-priority password-protected TTY8 with ' openvt ' and ' screen ' tho.
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I believe I had them on the old IBM Selectric Typewriters......?
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--Distinguishing numpadEnter is handy for older keyboard-based games, for one thing.
/ getting a kick out of this article while reading on my iMac with extended keyboard
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I also see two enters on my Thinkpad, I also see two enters on a DAS keyboard. I also see two enters on my System 76. I do see a Return and Enter on an old Apple Keyboard. I also did a google search on the old Model M keyboard, they had two enters as well.
This seems mostly like an Apple thing, than a real issue. I am guessing the author of the story is trying to nitpick on an issue that isn't worth nitpicking about.
Also there is a difference between the left shift and right shift keys.
However most program
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I guess if you want to be stuck with the past, you can consider them differently.
Not just me. Current standards consider them different. UTF-8 inherits this from ASCII as the difference between Line Feed and Carriage Return. Linux and Unix (MacOS included) considers them as different.
Enjoy your "scroll lock" key too!
I use it every day. It is quite handy.
Any IBM 3270 user will tell you (Score:5, Informative)
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I use a 122-key keyboard from pckeyboard.com, it's a clone of the IBM 3270 keyboard. It not only has a semi-dedicated "enter" key (the right CTRL key), but also has an extra set of keys to the left of the main keyboard and 24 function keys up above. Problem is, I'd gotten so used to a 101 key keyboard, by the time I got this one, I couldn't re-adjust to the old layout again. I use "shift-return" for new line and "return" for "enter" when I do 3270 sessions.
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I always thought Return was a shortcut for hitting Control-M. Enter, though, was an abstract concept all its own, something that doesn't have an ASCII entry -- necromancy, in other words.
Today, every keyboard has one (or two!) of these profane circuitry elements on the side of the proper key areas, not central yet always ready to emit its contorted argot into the stream of fair and appropriate interchange. So long present, in fact, that they now have their own place at the table as part of the standard di
Re:Any IBM 3270 user will tell you (Score:4, Insightful)
RETURN moves to the next line, a purely local function. ENTER submits the page to the mainframe, like a Submit button on an HTML page.
That's old school right there. These days every key press is submitted to Google and Microsoft, no need to wait for your input to be completed.
I have Enter but not Return, according to keys (Score:2)
Logitech puts "Enter" on both of them, if present, and does not use "Return" at all.
https://www.logitech.com/en-us... [logitech.com] for example.
Not universal (Score:2)
While I agree in principle, not every keyboard manufacturer seems to agree. Case in point: I'm typing this on an Insignia brand extended keyboard, and what should be the Return key says Enter on it, as does the actual Enter key.
I also vaguely recall some old conversations with other people that suggest this might be a Mac vs PC issue. As a lifelong Mac user, I'm used to Return and Enter being different, but I think I've had conversations with PC users who insisted otherwise.
(I'm pretty sure when I was walki
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I remember return keys on PCs. Sometimes they just put the symbol on them. This was back in the good old days when the key was actually in the *shape* of the CR symbol.
I vaguely remember when they started making the CR key just a regular long skinny thing, like an undersized shift key. Around that time they also started labelling them as "enter."
My current desktop keyboard has "enter" printed above the CR symbol. My mac has "enter" printed above "return".
On the keyboard of my PC and phone... (Score:4, Informative)
For once, truly news for nerds (Score:4, Informative)
Although obvious for anyone who's ever programmed something that reads raw keyboard scancodes: every physical key has a separate scancode, by definition.
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Don't let little things like facts get in the way. An uninformed pedant thinks they've learned something! See how happy they are? Let them believe a little while longer.
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sure, on these new-fangled keyboards.
we used to use keyboards with an IC that did the encoding in hardware, outputting ASCII.
(so get off my lawn!)
Gonna disagree (Score:2)
The key on my keyboard above the right shift pretty clearly reads "Enter". (As does the one on the numeric keypad.) My keyboard doesn't have a "Return" anywhere.
It's a Dell keyboard, btw.
In terms of function, I cannot think of a single instance I've ever found where Enter did something Return did not, or vice versa. I'm sure they exist, probably in old Unix or Vax systems or something, but they've been functionally interchangeable everywhere I've seen. (I know, an argument from ignorance is a poor one, but
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In terms of function, I cannot think of a single instance I've ever found where Enter did something Return did not, or vice versa.
It isn't really enter vs return, but sometimes keyboard macros treat enter and keypad-enter as different, even with numlock turned off.
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The key on my keyboard above the right shift pretty clearly reads "Enter". (As does the one on the numeric keypad.) My keyboard doesn't have a "Return" anywhere.
It's a Dell keyboard, btw.
In terms of function, I cannot think of a single instance I've ever found where Enter did something Return did not, or vice versa. I'm sure they exist, probably in old Unix or Vax systems or something, but they've been functionally interchangeable everywhere I've seen. (I know, an argument from ignorance is a poor one, but I've got a lot of experience with this particular ignorance. :) )
IIRC Excel used to do different things on text entry between Return and Enter -- maybe it still does; been a long time since I've been a spreadsheet warrior.
But yes, any slightly geeky classic Mac OS nerd (do you know what a Creator Code is? Congratulations, you count.) would have been able to tell you they were different. It was a common bit of Mac lore that we were doing this "right" according to big iron computing and lowly IBM PCs weren't.
And I can't find the ANY key! (Score:4, Funny)
And I can't find the ANY key!
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I always go there when I'm depressed.
stop the presses (Score:4, Funny)
If we can't control our language, we can't control our life! Now, if someone would only point out the civilization-threatening differences between pop and soda, we can finally advance as a species.
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I have found a lot of programs that handle left and right shift differently. Mainly in games.
Re: stop the presses (Score:3)
My Surface Pro Type Cover (Score:2)
Fingerprint version...
It's labeled 'Enter'.
And I do not get a Scrl Lck key.
AND I do not get an Insert key. I remap the tilde, since that's so damned useful I lay awake nights worrying what will I DO when I need it. Oh yeah, that's right, nope.
Insert is the key I use for autofight in the dungeon... Important.
MacBook (Score:2)
My MacBook has one key labelled Up and Down.
Someday I'll be telling kids that back in the day, keyboards had separate up/down keys.
DELL (Score:2)
My cheap-ass Dell keyboard says ENTER on the Return key, and Enter on the Enter key. Go figure.
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"Return" is from typewriters. We arent using typewriters.
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I have to agree. Back in the old times, computers were seen as Typewriters hooked up to a TV. So they just used the standard typewriter layout and terminology.
The Shift key use to mechanically shift the hit roller on the typewriter up a tad bit so it would strike the uppercase relief on the hammer.
The Enter Key would just move you page down a line. Return would bring you back to the first column.
Backspace depending on the typewriter will just move you one character back (High tech electronic ones would h
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"Return" is from typewriters. We arent using typewriters.
We still have to get the text entry point (cursor) down one line and back over to column 0. This is the case for any system or application which accepts multi-line input. The 'Enter' command (key) submits one or more lines of entry for system processing.
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That's because they're both Enter keys, but you're only partially literate.
Another fine exercise in triviality (Score:3)
Much of our present computing was based on ASCII and yes 0x0D is Carriage RETURN and 0x0C is New Line. What code is assigned to ENTER or is it a combination?
In 50 years or more I don't ever recall writing or seeing a program that did not consider ENTER and RETURN to be one and the same thing. Maybe those old IBM 3270-type entry terminals cared but I never used those.
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Much of our present computing was based on ASCII and yes 0x0D is Carriage RETURN and 0x0C is New Line.
In hex its 0Dh and 0Ah. You are mistaken.
(in decimal its 13 and 10)
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I'm feeling pedantic today: Linefeed is x0A. Newline is whatever char(s) the system wants to use for skipping to the next line.
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Considering that ASCII includes all sorts of non-printable characters that have never had keyboard keys, and the old IBM keyboards called the key Enter, it seems unlikely that the key label referred to ASCII.
Especially when none of the other keyboard keys are specific to ASCII, and the keyboard doesn't even know about ASCII.
And then if you find out about the control codes, the existence of control-M for Carriage Return also blows up this attempted connection, as these ASCII codes were given key sequences, b
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Sorry for the typo everyone. Not 0xC for New Line that is FF.
But still -- no code for ENTER that I am aware of.
In other news: Tomatoes are not vegetables. (Score:2)
Newst that matter.
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Nix v. Hedden, 149 U.S. 304 (1893)
The supreme court would disagree. Granted it is about how Tomatoes would be considered in terms of trade.
News for Nerds!!! (Score:2)
Now this is a story I can sink my geek into!!
Why is this newsworthy? (Score:5, Interesting)
Is it CR/LF or just LF, or maybe LF/CR. 0x0d (\r), 0x0a (\n) choose one (or two). Dos2unix is your friend.
Let's resurrect VI vs Emacs arguments again too.
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Sorry but it is
15, 12
Octal is the only way to count.
Dispatch from 1970 (Score:2)
The most useless article on Slashdot ever (Score:2)
Mac people think mac-isms are the norm (Score:3)
Don't you mean were? (Score:4, Insightful)
Sure - they have different keycodes. There's lots of redundant and obsolete keycodes. That's technology and overlapping cultures in time. There's space and alt-255, there's system bell, tab and vertical tab, shift in and shift out, and weird stuff like enquiry and acknowledge, and currency symbols, there's bunches of EBCDIC ones you have to deal with in old code.
Return and enter being 'distinct' is interesting - just like left shift and right-shift being different keys you should be able to keybind distinctly if users really want for customizable controls - but in code, you really should just treat them the same by default, otherwise, you're kind of being difficult for the sake of being difficult.
The deeper problem that will last beyond keycode implementations is symbols themselves. Symbols and anti-symbols, related symbols, cultural symbols, shifting over time. Should we be creating libraries that can learn to speak to anyone? Can we make software that can map to anything and not be a nightmare to use/maintain over time?
In the meantime, we act as smoothly as we can with our outmoded symbols all overlapping.
Ryan Fenton
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Sure - they have different keycodes. There's lots of redundant and obsolete keycodes. That's technology and overlapping cultures in time. There's space and alt-255, there's system bell, tab and vertical tab...
Actually, I use vertical tab on a daily basis :) I needed a way to generate some white space for human readability without it bringing in an actual newline. This was prompted by a bug being fixed in perl: https://www.effectiveperlprogramming.com/2013/06/the-vertical-tab-is-part-of-s-in-perl-5-18/ [effectivep...amming.com]
x0Ax0D (Score:2)
Line feed (xOA) carriage return (x0D) is what our 1979-era terminals issued when one pressed the return key.
Mac keyboards (Score:2)
It looks like it is specific to Mac keyboards.
All the other keyboards I have seen have the arrow symbol, "Enter" or both on the main key and "Enter", "Entr", or more rarely the arrow symbol on the number pad.
There may be exceptions, some manufacturers like to do funny things with their keyboards, and there may be some antique or specialized keyboards that have it differently. But now, only Macs seem to make that distinction.
And sure, they key code is different, every key has a different code, but generally,
May be Protocol or Programming Language related (Score:2)
Working in COBOL (i.e. entering source code for compilation), it was necessary to use *and* , but with the BASIC interpreter we onl
Talking of weird keys... (Score:2)
"All keyboards have a dedicated Return keyÃ--Ãit's the big key you're thinking of above the right Shift key."
What the hell does a Slashdot editor's keyboard look like?
Edit added after preview: And why does copy-pasting that lower-case garbage suddenly make it upper-case?
Not Sure (Score:2)
One of my keys - between the 'W' and 'R' - has the label worn off so I don't know what it is.
My keyboard from a PA-RISC machine: (Score:2)
Has both Keys labeled as Enter.
BAD protocol decisions in retrospect (Score:2)
- Space character as a parameter separator ...
- Back-Slash vs. Forward-Slash
- Line-Feed vs. Carriage Return
- Closing Tag exceptions
-
Macbook says both - enter and return (Score:2)
I have a Macbook that has both "enter" and "return" on the same key above the right shift key.
My Dell keyboard says Enter on the key above the right shift and on the numeric keypad.
I love how people say your's is wrong if it doesn't match what they think or want it to be.
Really, it's sloppy cluing in the NYT Mini puzzle (Score:4, Interesting)
The NYT Mini puzzle regularly suffers from sloppy cluing. Here's another one, from today's puzzle:
C: Any letter in "ROY G. BIV"
A: COLOR
Well, no. Any such letter is a letter, not a color. It could also be the initial for the name of a color. But it's not actually a color. There are plenty of ways to clue this properly, but the Mini puzzle author and editor don't seem to care.
The poor cluing also extends well beyond such technical cases as the OP and the one above, including completely wrong senses of ordinary words.
Re: Really, it's sloppy cluing in the NYT Mini puz (Score:3)
The puzzles require some vague out-of-the-box thinking rather than strict conformance to the English language. It's more of a free association test than a technical vocabulary test.
Re:Really, it's sloppy cluing in the NYT Mini puzz (Score:4, Insightful)
They are PUZZLES, not trivia questions. They aren't supposed to be 'clued properly', they are supposed to challenge you. They often include things like puns and 'non standard' ways of stating things, it is what makes them fun.
Re: (Score:2)
Historically, return was on your typewriter and it moved the carriage (the thing that holds the roller that the paper is on) back to it's home position. Enter was on your calculator, and, depending on your calculator, it would often do things like executing the last operation as well as performing a carriage return line feed on your paper tape.
Re: (Score:3)
I'm 56 and never seen such labels on any keyboard in all my 45 years of using computers. Sitting here with my giant 8.5 pound 24 function key model M (122 keys) labelled with two things: "Enter" and "Field Exit" above that.