Samsung Blu-ray Players Reportedly Bricked By XML Parsing Error (theregister.com) 97
Hammeh writes: Since the middle of last month, thousands of Samsung customers found their older internet-connected Blu-ray players had stopped working. In the days that followed, complaints about devices caught in an endless startup boot loop began to appear on various internet discussion boards, and videos documenting the device failure appeared on YouTube. To fix the issue, Samsung eventually advised customers to return their inoperable video players for repairs. There is no software fix. "We are aware of the boot loop issue that appeared on certain 2015 Samsung Blu-Ray players and are offering free mail-in repairs to customers who have been impacted," a representative of the mega-manufacturer said in a Samsung forum post.
It was speculated by netizens and some media reports that a HTTPS certificate error was to blame. However, it's been suggested to The Register that the cause of the failure was an XML file downloaded by the network-connected devices from Samsung servers during periodic logging policy checks. This file, when fetched and saved to the device's flash storage and processed by the equipment, crashed the system software and force a reboot. Upon reboot, the player parsed the XML file again from its flash storage, crashed and rebooted again. And so on, and so on, and so on. Crucially, the XML file would be parsed before a new one could be fetched from the internet, so once the bad configuration file was fetched and stored by these particular Samsung Blu-ray players in the field, they were bricked.
It was speculated by netizens and some media reports that a HTTPS certificate error was to blame. However, it's been suggested to The Register that the cause of the failure was an XML file downloaded by the network-connected devices from Samsung servers during periodic logging policy checks. This file, when fetched and saved to the device's flash storage and processed by the equipment, crashed the system software and force a reboot. Upon reboot, the player parsed the XML file again from its flash storage, crashed and rebooted again. And so on, and so on, and so on. Crucially, the XML file would be parsed before a new one could be fetched from the internet, so once the bad configuration file was fetched and stored by these particular Samsung Blu-ray players in the field, they were bricked.
Internet-Connected Blu-Ray Players (Score:5, Insightful)
Internet-connected Blu-ray players
Well there's your problem right there.
Re: Internet-Connected Blu-Ray Players (Score:1)
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Re: Internet-Connected Blu-Ray Players (Score:2)
Just return it. If it doesn't work without an Internet connection, it doesn't work.
Re: Just Return It - Can't (Score:2)
These things are 5 or more years old (as was mine). Way past the 1 year warranty. Samsung did, to their credit, take them back for service, even paying for the shipping both ways. But they didn't publicize that; only if you joined their "community" and did some searching would you find out the magic words that you needed to use when contacting Samsung by chat (nobody was answering the phone) to get the RMA and shipping label. Shipping was ground to Samsung (took about a week from where I live), then it was
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Sounds like they've gotten things better organized than when I was trying to get it fixed. Thanks. I had to generate a Samsung account, register the product (bought from Walmart a long time ago), join the "community," and peruse probably half a hundred messages in order to get any help.
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Actually, yes.
The XML file it was fetching was an updated configuration for the 'telmetry' system that tells it what to monitor in the user's usage and where to send it.
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The XML file it was fetching was an updated configuration for the 'telmetry' system that tells it what to monitor in the user's usage and where to send it.
And it crashed because the list of addresses where to send that data was empty. (There was actually no problem with the xml; as xml it was perfectly fine and parsed perfectly fine. Some code down the line didn't expect an empty array).
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They were probably trying to update to a list of new spyware servers.
Based on the theregister article, which actually showed the .xml file causing the problems, I downvoted you as a troll. What you said "probably" happened is pure conjecture, based on no evidence whatsoever.
Re:Internet-Connected Blu-Ray Players (Score:5, Insightful)
They have to be on the Internet, or they won't be able to download the latest DRM BS to play recent movies.
And I repeat your line, "Well there's your problem right there."
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I'm sticking with DVDs and non-DRM videos.
Re:Internet-Connected Blu-Ray Players (Score:5, Insightful)
BluRay requires downloading new keys periodically. The idea is that if a device key gets dug out of a model of player for use in a software decrypting tool, they could remove that key from the table on future bluray releases, which would prevent the software from decrypting it. Then they would send an "update" to the affected players, closing whatever hole the hackers used to dig out the key, and replace it with a new, valid key.
That was the PLAN anyway. Reality struck, and someone was able to derive the *master* key. From there, the software players could generate as many of their own keys as they wanted, which rendered the "update protection" useless. But the existing players still needed to download their periodic updates, including key revocations and updated keys. Even the new players continued along like nothing had happened. "See no Evil" I suppose?
"But why not do it some other way, not needing an internet connection?" Had one, did not like it. It had a USB port on the front. So it'd work fine, then after a few moths you'd get a new bluray disk and it would refuse to play because the disk told the player there was an update. Nevermind the fact that the key on MY player wasn't affected, it wanted its update! So I had to go download the update and walk it over to the player and flash it. Didn't take too long but was annoying. Every time.
Decided to replace it, went with something I KNEW would not have problems in the future - got a PS3. Strictly for bluray playing. Made by Sony, the lead on the BluRay spec, guaranteed to be at maximum futureproof. Never had that problem again.
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No it doesn't. The initial spec didn't even support network access, so unless p
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Decided to replace it, went with something I KNEW would not have problems in the future - got a PS3. Strictly for bluray playing. Made by Sony, the lead on the BluRay spec, guaranteed to be at maximum futureproof. Never had that problem again.
I got a BDP-S300 instead. If it weren't yard sale-cheap it would have been tragic, as it is, it was just silly. It's the slowest. Player. EVAR. It takes forever and ever amen to play a disc, whether it's a Blu-Ray or just a DVD. It does work fine, though, so there's that. And the drive is just ATA (forget if it's P or S) so I could repurpose it if I cared, put some other hardware in the case, whatever.
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It's not the only problem, or even the most important one.
Netflix is why the fuck people do that (Score:2, Informative)
Why do people connect their DVD player to the Internet?
A connected DVD player provides a cheap and easy way of accessing streaming services with older, non Smart TVs and not wanting to add an Amazon Firestick or Android box.
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You may also need to connect your Blu-Ray player to the internet to get decryption keys for new discs. Though AFAIK that isn't actually necessary... yet
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Because they revoke keys occasionally and your fancy player won't do shit unless it updates.
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How exactly will my non-Internet-connected Blu-ray player ever learn that a key has been revoked? Discs continue to play just fine.
I buy a new movie that is not encoded with an older, revoked key and as a result it fails to play on my older player. I return it as faulty, because it is, and download the movie instead. How does this benefit the studio or the distributor?
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Firstly, the AACS standard uses a lot more complicated cryptographic process to protect the disc content, but also allows the industry to revoke compromised keys and distribute new keys through new discs.
So, zero need for the player to ever be connected to the Internet.
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why the fuck would you give your bluray player your wifi password??
Or you could just put it on a "guest" network that can't connect to your regular wireless network...
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Bill Samsung for the damages. (Score:2)
- Time it was unusable until you got informed.
- Repair shop research.
- Repair shop call.
- Unplugging it.
- Driving cost and time.
- Repair.
- Second drive.
- Connecting it back up.
Let's say a round $2000, or whatever the newest most expensive model is overpriced at.
There should be a "factory reset" option (Score:4, Interesting)
This isn't a phone or other high-theft device. Devices like these need a way to do a complete factory reset, restoring the original firmware and settings as they were when it shipped from the factory.
Oh, and unless the device has additional features that require connecting it to the Internet, it shouldn't be connected at all.
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Oh, and unless the device has additional features that require connecting it to the Internet, it shouldn't be connected at all.
Since we're talking about Blu-Ray players, by design they need to be able to access updated keys because of the disc encryption.
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Oh, and unless the device has additional features that require connecting it to the Internet, it shouldn't be connected at all.
Since we're talking about Blu-Ray players, by design they need to be able to access updated keys because of the disc encryption.
"[T]he AACS standard uses a lot more complicated cryptographic process to protect the disc content, but also allows the industry to revoke compromised keys and distribute new keys through new discs."
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allows the industry to revoke compromised keys and distribute new keys through new discs.
I think it's more of the former. Some players complain about not being connected to the Internet. But my Sony player has never been connected and has never failed to play anything. I suspect that upon its first connection, it replaces its factory default key set (which is probably fully populated) with a table including revoked keys. And from there on, it's all downhill. The more it connects, the less you can see.
The obvious reason why such a player doesn't have a 'Reset to Factory Default' button is that
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I've got several discs in my collection that absolutely WILL NOT play unless the player is connected to the internet. Notably, one disc of the full box set of Breaking Bad, which makes no sense at all as it's not a disc that has any internet features whatsoever on it. But it will just flat out lock up the player and go black screen until the player has wifi enabled and the firewall opened up for it to phone home.
We're long past owning media on our own at this point. I keep around my old CDs as the final
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What we are seeing here is lazy and incompentent design , engineering and quality assurance on the initial hardware/software/firmware platform.
Only a moron would design a system where a corrupted boot image would make a piece of hardware bricked with no recourse.
Only a moron would think that anything that could come off the internet into a device will always be error free and not brick a device.
Some lawyers are going to get a new boat.
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Absolutely, excep I tihnk I disagree about even phones.
I for one want to be able to remote-brick my phone if it is stolen.
If my model was known as "pointless to steal except for parts" the odds of me being a target go way down.
Ditto laptops, tablets, and other high-theft items.
That said, it should be possible to keep the "anti-theft bricking" logic far away from the "firmware upgrade" logic that a borked firmware update will still allow a rollback to a known-good version, probably the version that was present when the anti-theft software was last updated or con
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I for one want to be able to remote-brick my phone if it is stolen.
If my model was known as "pointless to steal except for parts" the odds of me being a target go way down.
I may be totally wrong, but I thought that was kind of what Apple's "Find my iPhone" thing is for? If it gets stolen, and the thief can't provide the PIN, then the phone is essentially only good for spare parts? At least to all but the most sophisticated thief anyway.
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But you bring up an interesting point. With all the hysteria regarding Chinese parts, the real issue is the DESIGN chain. I managed silicon, firmware and sw dev for state of the art high speed ethernet and storage controllers. The design / verification of HW/FW was done at 4-5 sites around the
Blu-ray (Score:2)
Just download the movie onto SSD. OK, a Raspberry Pi 4B (which has USB 3) and a 1TB SSD. That's your blu-ray player and 40 movie collection right there .. for a lower cost.
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99.9% of the disc-watching public doesn't have the skill or knowledge to rip a Blu-ray, let alone set up their own movie server with a Raspberry Pi.
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All it takes is one person to rip it, and distribute it to everyone else.
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An rpi configured to boot directly into something like kodi is a perfectly good user experience for most, and will play whatever you can throw at it with a usb stick.
There are many places in the world where netflix is not easily available, in order to use it you'd need to find some way to get them to accept your payment, and you'd also need a vpn to a country where netflix wants to provide service.
Then you'd face limited content, as there's a lot of things netflix doesnt carry.
That's also assuming that you
Why is it called an error? (Score:2)
All the old samsung players out of warranty are dead and now they need to buy a new one.
Samsung executives are puzzled why this behavior would be called error. After all the term planned obsolescence was invented in America by Lee Iaccoca. Over the years the implementation of this policy has become less error prone and more reliable. That's all.
Re: Why is it called an error? (Score:1)
Samsung got out of the bluray market a couple years ago. This mess is doing nothing but costing them money.
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All the old samsung players out of warranty are dead and now they need to buy a new one.
Sure. Whenever I have a device die prematurely I totally look to immediately replace it with the same brand LOL
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Sure. Whenever I have a device die prematurely I totally look to immediately replace it with the same brand LOL
Actually, when shit happens, AND the company fixes your problem well, many people will indeed take that as a sign to stay with that company. Shit happens rarely, but can happen anywhere. Because it's so rare, I usually have no idea how a company will handle it. If they handle it well, that is a big plus.
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Sure. Whenever I have a device die prematurely I totally look to immediately replace it with the same brand LOL
Actually, when shit happens, AND the company fixes your problem well, many people will indeed take that as a sign to stay with that company. Shit happens rarely, but can happen anywhere. Because it's so rare, I usually have no idea how a company will handle it. If they handle it well, that is a big plus.
Oh, I agree with that completely. I will certainly reward great customer service with some brand loyalty.
I don't think that is going to be the case here though. Looks more like lots of people are just going to have to buy new Blu-Ray players.
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All the old samsung players out of warranty are dead and now they need to buy a new one.
Yes, what an amazing business move by Samsung, get customers to buy new players by firstly pissing them off and then secondly offering free repairs to get it working again.
Did they teach you that in the Elizabeth Holmes class at the Trump school of business management?
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Actually, handling an issue very well when there is an error can make a consumer more positive about a company.
For example:
You buy an item and it works normally. You're neutral about the company.
You buy an item and it doesn't work: you're now negative about the company.
The company does a VERY good job of fixing your issue: you now have a positive view of the company.
Problems are opportunities for companies to stand above the crowd, if handled well.
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Actually, handling an issue very well when there is an error can make a consumer more positive about a company.
To be clear are you doubling down on the GP's conspiracy theory? Not only was Samsung trying to kill old players, but then did it precisely so they can demonstrate customer service and thus improving some long distant future sales?
Mistake after mistake after mistake (Score:2)
So let me get this straight. Instead of using libxml, the MIT-licensed, broadly accepted standard parser for XML, Samsung rolled their own hack of a parser. Instead of running it through a standard set of XML docs, Samsung tested it on only a limited subset of content. Instead of disabling or throttling failing subsystems when they crash, Samsung let them continue running and crashing repeatedly. Instead of isolating each high-level component into its own process so that a crash in one component (UI?)
My first Blu-Ray play was Samsung/Never Again (Score:2)
I got my first Blu-Ray player as a promotion from American Express.
If failed after about a week and when I called Samsung to get it replaced/fixed I was asked for the model number and was told that I shouldn't have the unit, it was only made for US customers (I live in Canada), I had illegally imported it and if I hung up they would forget all about it. I had to get Amex involved and it took literally six weeks for Samsung to agree to fix it, which took another month and then when I got it back, it stopped
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I had illegally imported it and if I hung up they would forget all about it.
Correct response: "I'm not going to hang up, go ahead and call the police, I TRIPLE DOG DARE YOU!".
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Here in NZ Samsung sold a whole bunch of washing machines that set fire to houses. I bought one so when they issued a recall I had it replaced with a newer model free of charge.
Within a year the new one stopped working and when they took a look inside they said "wow, this thing could have set your house on fire" because the wiring was melted and a few minutes away from ignition.
Samsung might make good phones (I don't know, I don't have one of their phones) but it seems as if everything else they make is j
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A couple of possible scenarios:
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An optimized copy of libxml2 has a binary size of something like 300 kilobytes, and a Blu-Ray player has to be capable of running a full Java VM just to handle the disc menus and stuff, so this isn't a tiny embedded device we're talking about. So I don't really buy the size theory. That said, you're right that it could be an old version with a bug. Or it could be that they bizarrely decided to use it as a validating parser and incorrectly marked that particular element as requiring child elements.
Either
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An optimized copy of libxml2 has a binary size of something like 300 kilobytes
That is larger than enormous for a binary code blob of a simple text parser. Entire operating systems are smaller, and those include more than code.
So yeah... you just made the opposite point that you wanted to. Maybe not rush to speak when you are ignorant?
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An optimized copy of libxml2 has a binary size of something like 300 kilobytes
That is larger than enormous for a binary code blob of a simple text parser. Entire operating systems are smaller, and those include more than code.
And again, this is not a tiny embedded device running VRTX that we're talking about. It's a Blu-Ray player, which means it has BD-J support with a full Java ME runtime. That totals in the tens of megabytes by itself, plus the operating system, which is usually Linux-based. A tiny 300K library is utterly lost in the noise. For reference, the firmware images for devices from this era are O(150 MB) [samsung.com]. That would make libxml only about two tenths of one percent of the total size of the device firmware.
Maybe not rush to speak when you are ignorant?
You fi
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In this case libxml would not have helped all that much. It was an intentional choice to fail operations upon anything detected as tampering.
Their XML parser shat on itself and caused a reboot loop. libxml would have reported the malformed element in the file, and they would have coded it such that the error thrown would also cause the system to halt and not continue functioning.
Actually, you have to explicitly turn on DTD validation and provide a DTD if you want libxml2 to do validation. Otherwise, it will return a tree no matter what garbage you feed it on the input, so long as it is properly formed XML (token-wise). Also, enabling validation would require including a copy of the DTD on disk, which would run counter to any goal of making it harder for people to provide fake data. It would be better for that sort of decision to be hard-coded in their binary, and presumably, the
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Actually, you have to explicitly turn on DTD validation and provide a DTD if you want libxml2 to do validation
If there is a Doctype declaration present in the XML, it is a requirement for an XML parser to parse the DTD for entity resolution, whether or not validation is required. The declaration can point to a DTD over HTTP.
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Actually, you have to explicitly turn on DTD validation and provide a DTD if you want libxml2 to do validation.
Enabling validation would also require you to figure out that a certain array in the xml file shouldn't be empty - if you don't put that into the validation scheme then it won't be checked. But if you realise that the array shouldn't be empty, then surely you would also look at the code that uses it and make sure it doesn't crash on an empty array. So it would have worked just fine without validation.
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Apparently you think that embedded devices have unlimited resources, starting with "using libxml", though "subsystems" and isolated "high-level components" in their "own process".
Samsung engineers who did this obviously suck, but you would fare no better.
"It's completely unacceptable for firmware in an embedded device to be so poorly designed and tested."
LOL look who's talking.
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Apparently you think that embedded devices have unlimited resources, starting with "using libxml", though "subsystems" and isolated "high-level components" in their "own process".
Unlimited, no, but you seem to have a completely unrealistic idea of the hardware that we're talking about here. If we were talking about a tiny little RTOS running on a very dumb device, cutting corners to save a few kB might make sense, but that hasn't been what most people mean when we say "embedded system" since the 1990s. These days, we usually mean something that contains a general-purpose computer comparable to what is in your cell phone, but that usually doesn't present itself to the user as being
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No idea, I'm as disgusted as you are. Somehow Samsung became the most popular brand of television in the US. I'm using one right now and it blows. It's slow AF. I can't wait to get back to my old-ass AQUOS.
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No, I just read the summary, which said that it was a parsing error. What you're describing is not a parsing error.
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So let me get this straight. Instead of using libxml, the MIT-licensed, broadly accepted standard parser for XML, Samsung rolled their own hack of a parser.
Wrong, wrong, wrong. Unless what the article says, the problem was not the xml itself or the parsing. The problem was with the parsed data, specifically that there was an array that was unexpectedly empty. The crash wasn't in the parsing.
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That will teach me to trust the summary. *sigh*
But that means the problems were arguably even more embarrassing. They:
Hardware reset (Score:2)
IOTs should come with a button that forces a safe mode firmware overwrite from a removable memory card. Space probes have that .. except the card isn't removable because they don't want aliens stealing the code.
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best practices for consumer electronics (Score:2)
Wrap it up in tinfoil and fill any RJ45 jacks with caulk. On a regular basis, carefully review the MAC addresses your router sees. Block any that are suspicious.
Even after all that, a procedure to reliably disable the cameras and microphones is still needed.
Duh. (Score:4, Insightful)
And for the record, i have some legitimate blu-rays disks. Which by chance i always have trouble watching because they require the use of only certain types of software players that only work if connected to the internet. To the point that I just said "fuck it" and ripped them to my HD and now I watch the copies instead of the original discs.
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It is for reasons like this that I never bought a dedicated blu-ray player. Much simpler to watch the "generic version" (piratebay) or if you want to be legit then Netflix. And for the record, i have some legitimate blu-rays disks. Which by chance i always have trouble watching because they require the use of only certain types of software players that only work if connected to the internet. To the point that I just said "fuck it" and ripped them to my HD and now I watch the copies instead of the original discs.
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Once Again, DRM Screwing Honest People (Score:1)
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Yeah, I also got so peeved with my legally bought DVDs and BluRay disks accusing me of stealing that I just gave up wasting my money and now I have an external USB HD drive with *all* the movies I could ever want on it -- and none of them nag at me interminably.
It's called shooting yourself in the foot MPAA!
Great (Score:2)
Internet connected players+firmware with no backup copy to reflash it when something goes wrong.
I guess it's time to send the $5 coupons good tward their customers' next purchase.
Toucan Sam's brother (Score:2)
That's what they get for letting Toucan Sam's evil twin brother write their firmware.
Fails all around. One bit of bad data and the damned thing is bricked. It's good that they're doing the fix for free, but considering that it's a mail-in fix and that it took a month to even determine the problem and decide to offer a mail-in fix, they should be compensating their customers for time and hassle if they want to have any customers.
Beyond that, this is all over a spyware subsystem that shouldn't even exist but
Ok if a company fails=DMCA exemption! (Score:1)
Punish makers of firmware like this one by stripping all 100% of DMCA protections.
Once DMCA is stripped, users can legally patch that and future fails.
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Once DMCA is stripped, users can legally patch that and future fails.
So how do you patch this when the device crashes during boot? And which "users" would be capable of patching it? Less than 0.01%? And I might be _able_ to patch something, but I most definitely don't want to ever have to patch a f***ing Blu-ray player.
DVD to the rescue! (Score:2)
But they saved a physical button and mem chip! (Score:2)
Any device of this kind should be resettable to a known good ground state by having the user click a physical switch that in this case loads a base XML file from a small non-volatile RAM. For want of a dime's worth of additional hardware, the device was lost.
A related situation is having toggles substitute for a multiple-position slider. My last three Chinese bathroom scales (you can't get any other kind) have the weight units implemented this way. I can't just slide the switch to metric or imperial and hav
Samsung Bad (Score:2)
I had a Samsung Galaxy "Skyrocket" phone, and it was terrible. I bought a Samsung washing machine, and IT was terrible; had to be replaced under warranty. I bought a Samsung refrigerator, and _IT_ was ALSO terrible, and ALSO had to be replaced under warranty. I don't learn quickly, but I CAN learn; I'll never buy another Samsung device.
And if you do, be SURE to buy the extended warranty plan, because you're probably going to need it.
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Internet Connected Blu-Ray (Score:2)
Besides the keys changing periodically, there are those folks ( like myself ) who utilize the Blu-Ray player to access Netflix, Prime Video, Hulu, etc. since the TV is old enough that the apps contained within it no longer work correctly. Example, the Netflix app will not let you choose different users under the same account, you can only watch the primary users account list. Even then, it fails to play the majority of titles it's supposed to be able to stream.
Hence, the reason the Blu-Ray unit is interne
I really can't wait (Score:2)
until something similar happens to a few hundred thousand automobiles. Then maybe people will learn that having everything-including-the-kitchen-sink connected to the internet is a very bad idea. But probably not; I think this kind of shit is going to keep on happening, and people will just accept it the way they accept bad government.
I own a Samsung Blu-ray player that probably would have been bricked in this fiasco, but I had the sense to never give it access to the network. So it still does what I bought
The need for a factory reset (Score:2)
Any device that pulls critical files from outside must have a factory reset option that can be initiated while booting up. Then this problem could be easily be fixed simply by waiting until the fixed file was put online and booting to the reset. It would then pull the new file and all would be well.
I'm guessing they left out that capability to shave a buck off the manufacturing costs.
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Any device that pulls critical files from outside must have a factory reset option that can be initiated while booting up.
If that factory reset state is old enough (>5 years here), there's no guarantee that you can get from fresh factory state to something that works.
Blu-ray players are first IoT devices (Score:1)
Remote caused bricking is one of many reasons I don't own a Blu-ray player. Screw the headaches of having to buy a new one every few years. (After your existing one stops getting firmware updates, but needs the updates to play a newer disc.) Get a media server and put you movies on it.
I actually saw this as a possibility 7 years ago:
https://arwenstarblog.wordpress.com/2013/03/ [wordpress.com]
I do like Samsung's response. Even though it's likely most of the
Optical media in 2020? (Score:1)
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Dinosaurs
It's this mentality that's allowed the inventory to dry up and now they sell them far above what they should cost.
BTW, when did digital movies go DRM free????