USB Type-C Headphones Were Nowhere in Sight at CES 2019 (androidauthority.com) 197
In a sea of 3D audio products and true-wireless earbuds, USB Type-C headphones were nowhere in sight at CES 2019. From a report: This absence isn't an accident, however. Rather, it's the deafening silence of an abandoned product category. While many looked to USB-C audio as the successor to the famed physical port, the available models aren't catching on, and they don't seem to be going anywhere. Their absence at CES 2019 doesn't paint a rosy picture of their future, either.
In general, it takes new standards quite a while to catch on, however, USB-C was thrust into the limelight far before its time. When Apple and Google ditched their headphone jacks, it limited the pool of audio peripherals to Bluetooth, or the very young USB-C category. Perhaps with a little more time and backing from a few more serious partners this could have matured alongside its older brother the TRRS plug, but it just wasn't to be. [...] One of the biggest issues that companies need to navigate pertains to source and peripheral device compatibility. USB Type-C headphone cables can either be active or passive -- or manifest as a dongle adapter. This inconsistency, paired with the fact that Audio Accessory Mode has yet to be universally supported, results in a barrage of compatibility issues. Hence why many users are unable to operate playback controls or use a headset's integrated microphone.
In general, it takes new standards quite a while to catch on, however, USB-C was thrust into the limelight far before its time. When Apple and Google ditched their headphone jacks, it limited the pool of audio peripherals to Bluetooth, or the very young USB-C category. Perhaps with a little more time and backing from a few more serious partners this could have matured alongside its older brother the TRRS plug, but it just wasn't to be. [...] One of the biggest issues that companies need to navigate pertains to source and peripheral device compatibility. USB Type-C headphone cables can either be active or passive -- or manifest as a dongle adapter. This inconsistency, paired with the fact that Audio Accessory Mode has yet to be universally supported, results in a barrage of compatibility issues. Hence why many users are unable to operate playback controls or use a headset's integrated microphone.
I take it as a point of pride (Score:4, Insightful)
Pride? (Score:5, Funny)
I take it as a point of pride that I still use a 1/8" headphone jack.
If that gives you a sense of pride I think you might want to set the bar a little higher on your life goals.
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True for various values of "bluetooth audio quality"
It really depends on the profile support of all the devices involved. And the source material you are playing. Hint: garbage in, garbage out.
Re:Pride? (Score:5, Insightful)
So, you don't see any problem with manufacturers deciding to replace perfectly good audio quality with lower quality?
People listen to a LOT of music on their phones, and not just in their car. The fact that a 2019 flagship phone cannot deliver audio fidelity as good as a 2014 (or 2009) model is absurd.
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So, you don't see any problem with manufacturers deciding to replace perfectly good audio quality with lower quality?
I do. You probably do too. Unfortunately, the other 98% of consumers use Apple earbuds (or worse) to listen to music, which should tell you everything you need to know about the "problem" to solve here.
People listen to a LOT of music on their phones, and not just in their car. The fact that a 2019 flagship phone cannot deliver audio fidelity as good as a 2014 (or 2009) model is absurd.
The only thing that is absurd is assuming that people really give a shit about audio quality (ref. Apple earbuds). Removing the headphone jack certainly didn't stop or even slow down iPhone sales when it happened. Of course, this also highlights the fact that little or no effort is put into music masteri
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Well, we can't really say that. iPhone sales have been coming in under Apple expectations lately, which is part of the reason their stock has taken such a beating. Maybe the effect wasn't immediate, but it might be a lot bigger than we think.
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Well, we can't really say that. iPhone sales have been coming in under Apple expectations lately, which is part of the reason their stock has taken such a beating. Maybe the effect wasn't immediate, but it might be a lot bigger than we think.
Uh, the key word here is lately.
The headphone jack disappeared from iPhones well over two years ago. Apple only recently showed a decline, and we both know that a $1000+ MSRP and a weak S-grade model release last year had far more of an impact on sales than some delayed reaction to not having a headphone jack.
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Apple is in a unique position with lock-in though - if you don't like the absence of the 3.5mm jack your options are: don't upgrade your phone, or switch to Android or one of the other niche OSes, and lose all the apps you've invested in, and the nice integration with iTunes on your PC. And even then, sales are faltering, so perhaps some percentage of iPhone users are exercising those options.
No one else is really positioned to cram a significant unwanted change down users throats - when I upgrade my Andro
Shitty quality (Score:2)
People listen to a LOT of music on their phones, and not just in their car.
Yup and only very few of those places to listen music into actually are bluetooth enabled.
So yeah, I agree.
The fact that a 2019 flagship phone cannot deliver audio fidelity as good as a 2014 (or 2009) model is absurd.
audio fidelity on the day of their out-boxing.
2 years down the line and Bluetooth should more or less be the same crap quality as on day 1 (unless the manufacturer has pushed an update activating support for new codecs, but that's unlikely, mostly due to licensing issue around codec - as no Bluetooth speaker I know uses Opus nor FLAC)
2 years down the line and the audio jack has taken so much abuse tha
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I have 1/8" audio jacks on equipment that I've used every day for the past 8 years and they're still perfect.
If the manufacturer uses a good-quality 1/8" jack, you won't see the kind of degradation you're talking about.
Jack breakage (Score:2)
I have 1/8" audio jacks on equipment that I've used every day for the past 8 years and they're still perfect.
...single anecdote...
If the manufacturer uses a good-quality 1/8" jack, you won't see the kind of degradation you're talking about.
Even if the quality of the jack is good:
- falls, hits, etc. and other such will put stress on the soldering of the jack. Eventually a bad connection might develop.
Luckily, this one is simple to fix with a soldering iron
- dirt, pocket lint, etc. *will* get inside (unless your smartphone happens to have a cover over its connectors like some waterproof e-readers do, e.g.: Kobo H2O)
and *will definitely* cause bad contacts (or the jack suddenly thinking that it is plugged in - if it uses som
Who is willing to pay for it? (Score:2)
So, you don't see any problem with manufacturers deciding to replace perfectly good audio quality with lower quality?
I think the manufacturers should make what people want to buy. If I don't care about top tier audio quality why should I have to pay for more expensive equipment necessary to play it? The problem is that what YOU think is "perfectly good audio quality" is probably higher than what a lot of other people (myself included) are willing to tolerate. I'm not saying you are wrong for holding that opinion, just pointing out that other people clearly have different opinions.
We've been having this ridiculous debat
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... or have an integrated system in your car that actually is good.
There is a marked improvement in audio quality in my car between Bluetooth connection, and plugging in a USB cable to my phone. The SBC codec is garbage.
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"that I still use a 1/8" headphone jack."
For your phone or your portable wax-roll player?
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"that I still use a 1/8" headphone jack."
For your phone or your portable wax-roll player?
Nope, I have to use a high-impedance piezo earphones for that, and they connect with screw posts on my Eddison. You kiddos with your 3.5 mm headphone jacks, Bluetooth, and all.
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You mean 3.5mm right? 1/4 inch, 3.5mm stereo, those are the two standards, but I take your point, and i'm happy to use my 3.5mm jack headphones every day. Works for me!
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There's also 2.5mm - not that anybody much uses it, for pretty much the same reason nobody wants USB-C audio: it's not compatible with the vast world of 3.5mm audio equipment without annoying, easily-lost adapters. At least the far older 1/4" standard is forward-compatible with 3.5mm using nothing more than an in-jack adapter that only protrudes far enough to be able to pull it out when needed.
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Not moving from a flimsy, failure-prone medium with poor fidelity and linear access to a robust medium with higher fidelity and random access seems kind of silly.
But not moving from something that works reliably and has good fidelity to something that requires futzing with the phone and the device almost weekly because they aren't talking to each other and has much worse fidelity seems like a much more r
Nope! (Score:2)
There's no mystery here (Score:4, Insightful)
Those of us who prefer the advantages of wired headphones over the advantages of Bluetooth ones see no advantages at all in USB-C.
Advantages in common connectors (Score:2)
Those of us who prefer the advantages of wired headphones over the advantages of Bluetooth ones see no advantages at all in USB-C.
Speak for yourself there bud. I'm not saying USB-C headphones are clearly better in every respect (they aren't) but there definitely ARE advantages to not needing multiple types of connectors. Personally I like having the I/O ports be universal and not have to worry about having the type of connector for a given device. Standardizing on USB-C definitely has advantages in that regard.
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Except that up until USB-C, the world had standardize (more or less) on "one port = one protocol".
USB-C breaks that, so just because the port fits, it doesn't mean the device and cable can actually communicate with each other. This is like when SCSI and printers used the same 25-pin port, but 100x worse.
USB-C puts the responsibility of compatibility on the user instead of the manufacturer where it rightfully belongs.
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> why should audio be any different
Because audio is analog, and adding digital "plug and pray" wrappers around a still-analog signal contributes nothing, while substantially raising the price of "dumb" peripherals.
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You mean how USB3.1-B+ ports were "universal" but pins 9/10 could carry 3-40V? So sure the cord and port matched but you had to check the supply? Or you mean how for Rasp.Pi / Fast Charging you couldn't tell from the plug and had to look at the supply to know if it was 1amp or 2.5? Or how every iPhone had one of two omni-connenctors and your needed adapters (which fail over time) to get video out? To say nothing of the chain of adapters to get video of
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Except charging at the same time as having wired audio fidelity?
Re:There's no mystery here (Score:5, Interesting)
Ummm, the target audience is "people who don't want Bluetooth audio".
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No, that category was perfectly satisfied with the 1/8 inch plug. The USB-C vaporware is/was a "solution" nobody wanted. Unfortunately, in spite of not really existing, it has displaced a well tested and once ubiquitous solution.
It took a special kind of moron to make that happen.
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shouting (Score:5, Insightful)
3.5mm FOREVER
3.5mm FOREVER
3.5mm FOREVER
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Well duh. (Score:5, Interesting)
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That's what USB-C is [androidauthority.net].
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no it isn't.
analog audio out isn't in the spec as such. some devices have it through the port.
analog audio port like 3.5mm works just fine and works everytime and doesn't need a dongle to carry around or separate charger.
it's quite baffling how they didn't just make it digital and use the existing usb spec for the audio out.. I mean, it works on (many) microusb phones that do support otg usb. it's an atrocious spec. a new port reversible port spec would have been fine. preferably one that would have worked
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Bluetooth latency is nowhere near adequate for professional audio (the context for this thread). The minimum latency of Bluetooth audio is on the order of 40 milliseconds, which is about an order of magnitude higher than acceptable for monitoring while recording. And that's on top of the conversion latency on the way in.
When recording, you have to blend in some of the sound from the mic in along with the existing trac
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Surprisingly few, actually. The real issue is that the market for inexpensive wired headphones is small and growing smaller.
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I want common interfaces for everything (Score:2)
Nobody wants USB-C headphones.
Disagree. I want a common connector for every device possible, not just headphones. There is no way to accomplish that with a 3.5mm jack but it can be done with USB-C.
We want universal headphones that work not just with cell phones and computers, but professional audio equipment, older audio equipment...
USB-C does not prevent that. There is no reason USB-C headphones cannot be the universal interface you desire. Bear in mind that 3.5mm jacks aren't universal either and they are FAR more limited in capa
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USB-C does not prevent that. There is no reason USB-C headphones cannot be the universal interface you desire. Bear in mind that 3.5mm jacks aren't universal either and they are FAR more limited in capabilities. And you can adapt back to 3.5mm jacks if you are so inclined.
the USB standard has already failed here. The fact is that there are already USB-C headphones that work on some devices and not on others. There are USB-C dongles that work for some phones and not others.
this isn't because they're not following the standard (at least that's not the only reason) - it's because the standard setters didn't start with the goal 'Every USB C Headphone will handle audio reliably in every device that outputs audio'
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USB-C does not prevent that. There is no reason USB-C headphones cannot be the universal interface you desire. Bear in mind that 3.5mm jacks aren't universal either and they are FAR more limited in capabilities. And you can adapt back to 3.5mm jacks if you are so inclined.
the USB standard has already failed here. The fact is that there are already USB-C headphones that work on some devices and not on others.
There are USB-C dongles that work for some phones and not others.
this isn't because they're not following the standard (at least that's not the only reason) - it's because the standard setters didn't start with the goal 'Every USB C Headphone will handle audio reliably in every device that outputs audio'
Actually the standard says that. The problem is the standard is stupid. It says any USB audio device, must be able to handle both digital and analog signals, but that makes the analog mode pointless and would require active adapters in the simple dongles. That is stupid so manufacturers are not doing it. And consumers aren't looking for the USB-certified stamp of approval anyway, most USB-C cables and devices in fact have no such certification.
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We want universal headphones that work not just with cell phones and computers, but professional audio equipment, older audio equipment...
USB-C does not prevent that. There is no reason USB-C headphones cannot be the universal interface you desire.
Actually, USB-C does prevent that. Inherently.
Every time you convert sound from the analog domain to the digital domain and vice versa, you add latency. If your professional audio hardware has an analog output and you add an ADC to then retransmit the data to a USB-based pair of headphones, you're almost guaranteed to be adding enough latency to significantly affect usability for recording purposes, where single-digit milliseconds matter.
And if your professional audio hardware somehow manages to operate i
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Get a USB hub. They've existed for decades.
With all that shit you've got listed, you've also got a desk that you can leave the hub on, and all that shit plugged into it.
Bonus: it's all far more manageable for a notebook computer now, and doesn't cost nearly as much as the port replicators of the past.
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Get a USB hub. They've existed for decades.
Yes, those are quite convenient hanging off the side of your phone. Stop being retarded.
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Nobody wants USB-C headphones. We want universal headphones that work not just with cell phones and computers, but professional audio equipment, older audio equipment...
Not to be argumentative but that's a limited set of people. I, for one, don't have any professional audio gear and rarely use my traditional stereo amplifier. When I do and want to use headphones, I've a fine set for that setup. Except I hate the cord, it's always getting in the way.
Other people, naturally, will have different preferences. It would be a boring world if we were all the same.
I expect there's a large group of people who just want something which works and sounds pretty good. Audio fidelity is
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The issue really is that Bluetooth can't catch up because you the same basic incompatibility issues caused by proprietary garbage.
Everyone's fallback codec is SBC, which sounds terrible. Various companies have come up with higher fidelity schemes, but they then try to license it to people for $$$ and some companies (especially those with competing "standards") then refuse, so you end up with what we have today - headphones that support AptX, but phones that do not; phones that support AAC but headphones th
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But you can always just dongle the dongle dongle and then enjoy all the dongling. It's called progress.
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That's laughable. Apple keeps trying to make paper thin phones and claiming that's what people want. Then people buy them and get a chunky case to protect the phone and give them what they really want, a more rugged phone even if it has to be 3 times thicker.
To close the analog hole (Score:2)
The USB-C spec allows for end to end encryption of the audio stream. Forcing it onto phones allows for one of the last analog holes to finally be closed off.
Not that a lot of people copy out the port but it was there for the desperate and knowledgeable.
best path (Score:4, Interesting)
No jack, no sale (Score:5, Insightful)
Plus, it'll be really hard to use my TRRS-plugged card reader for my credit card processor if I don't have such a jack on my phone.
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That would be an issue if you had a phone/MP3 player with a headphone jack but no Bluetooth. AFAIK no such device exists. Everything comes with Bluetooth nowadays.
That's the real issue here. Having both a headphone jack and Bluetooth gives the user the full range of options to use the device as they wish. Removing the headphone jack or Bluetooth artificially and needlessly limits how you can use the device.
USB-C i
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Its a shame that "large internal storage" and "SD card slot" are often mutually exclusive.
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Mostly in the case that you actually want local storage of media, because "the cloud" isn't necessarily a performant and always available option for everything in every use case.
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Obviously. But "local storage of media" is where the micro-SD slot comes in. 256GB microSD cards are under $50 these days.
I'd rather have a 32GB + SD phone that I use cloudfree than a 256GB phone that's more cloud-dependent for data transfer (cough ... Apple ... cough). At least with the phone with SD, I can remove the card and stick it in a laptop or whatever to offload data.
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Well, yes, but that's kind of the point:
Not all phones are ideal.
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Because some of us travel, and would like to put 16+ hours of movies and tv shows on our phones so that we can watch them while travelling and that won't fit on a 32GB phone.
Airplane's WIFI is terrible (and expensive). Cellular again isn't an option at all on airplanes and really expensive if you are on a layover for a few hours.
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8GB is enough for the OS and Apps on Android, 32GB is considered big for android devices, I am not sure what OS you are running. Anything past that is storage for images, games, etc.
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DRM is exactly what this about. That headphone jack will let you copy music! The horror!
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You can only get an SD card slot if you pay the Microsoft tax.
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Not anymore. Microsoft joined the patent pool, so there are no longer any patent fees to Microsoft for stuff implemented in the Linux kernel, like exFat etc.
This is a widespread misunderstanding.
exFAT is NOT implemented in the official kernel, precisely because of those patents. It is NOT covered by the patent pledge. Microsoft joining the patent pool gave them all the protections of the pool but their most precious patents were kept out.
Classic Microsoft move.
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Not anymore. Microsoft joined the patent pool, so there are no longer any patent fees to Microsoft for stuff implemented in the Linux kernel, like exFat etc.
This is a widespread misunderstanding.
exFAT is NOT implemented in the official kernel, precisely because of those patents. It is NOT covered by the patent pledge. Microsoft joining the patent pool gave them all the protections of the pool but their most precious patents were kept out.
Classic Microsoft move.
The exFAT patents have expired many places though, and are about to expire in the rest of the world.
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I refuse to buy a phone without a 3.5mm jack and SD card slot
I don't think there's ever been a phone with both 3.5mm jack AND SD card slot. Probably could find an old landline phone that supports patching in 3.5mm, but it wouldn't have an SD card
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I refuse to buy a phone without a 3.5mm jack and SD card slot
I don't think there's ever been a phone with both 3.5mm jack AND SD card slot. Probably could find an old landline phone that supports patching in 3.5mm, but it wouldn't have an SD card
I hope you are joking. Samsung S9 is one that has 3.5mm headphone jack and 512GB microSD card slot. https://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_s9-8966.php [gsmarena.com]
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The argument about people wanting thinner phones is total bullshit.
Apple's thinnest phone had a 3.5mm jack. The first jack to drop the 3.5mm jack was 0.2mm thicker.
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aptX-HD, LDAC, AAC (Score:3)
There is also too few bluetooth headphones that supports HD codecs like aptx-hd (qualcomm) or ldac (sony) or aac (apple).
What I'd like is a simple BT receiver that handle HD codec, and on this gizmo, have a 3.5mm jack so I can plug high end headphone on it, while still being wireless with my phone (that support HD bluetooth).
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What I'd like is a simple BT receiver that handle HD codec
A dongle on the other end of the connection sounds like the worst of all worlds.
Ahem... (Score:2)
"When Apple and Google ditched their headphone jacks, it limited the pool of audio peripherals to Bluetooth, or the very young USB-C category."
You skipped USB 2.0 and earlier here which offer more than enough speed for headphones and have been the interface for all quality headphones for quite awhile..
Single responsibility priniciple (Score:2)
Playback controls? Microphone? WTF do either of those things have to do with headphones? Dipshits...
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USB-C is bidirectional and digital -- should be no problem including a mic and playback controls that are BETTER than current 3.5mm headphones. If manufacturers don't, that just means they're being assholes who want you to buy a $100 set of Bluetooth headphones instead.
The quality of the audio is all about the quality of the digital-analog-converters and the construction of the speaker. There are companies that are very good at one or the other. Apple iPod used to be known for having some of the best quality DACs in a handheld device. They aren't as well known for selling world-class headphones. Sennheiser makes great headphones, some of the best. They aren't as well known for their digital decoders inside their headphones.
What company produces a digital headphone th
Not really bothered (Score:2)
When I'm moving around I prefer the convenience of Bluetooth, and when I want quality I prefer a decent DAC+amp and nice headphones with a quarter inch jack.
From an engineering point of view digital earbuds/headphones could be great; the analog signal path could be a lot shorter and better shielded, while amplifiers could come tuned to the characteristics of the cans for ideal frequency response.
But from a practical point of view, a lot of decent cans would be ruined by crappy noisy DACs and quality cans wo
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I don't. There's a reason that headphones with quarter-inch plugs are essentially no longer made. It turns out that it is better to put an 1/8" plug in the headphones and use an adapter. That way, when (not if) you forget that they are on your head and rip them out of the gear, you lose a $1.50 adapter instead of the input jack on your equipment. :-)
Comes as no surprise. (Score:2)
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This is what happens when you have a solution looking for a problem and trying to fix a problem that doesn't need to be fixed.
Oh, there was a problem to solve alright. That problem was revenue not being obscene enough.
So you remove things like user-replaceable batteries and standardized headphone jacks in favor of sealed designs and proprietary connectors that require more purchases and faster replacements.
In other words, this problem was solved long ago.
Because usb-c has zero quality standards? (Score:3)
I have started using usb-c for video and i can say that the aftermarket cable market is abysmal. You can buy a 30-40 dongle (usbc to hdmi for instance) that is garbage, or a $10 one that is amazing. There is zero correlation between quality and price. Just look at the reviews of apple usbc adaptors, most are garbage (with a high price tag). While ugreen, a no name chinese company is performing very well.
You have the newer apple laptops having multiple usb-c ports but one port is full power (next to the power plug), and another one is not, making things like powerpoint clickers have reduced range if plugged into a different port. How bullshit is that! They shouldn't be able to pick and choose what this or that port will support, can we have some standardization please? Was never a problem with usb 2 and usb 3....
Its a shitshow! There are no standards. I basically have to buy 3-4 adaptors and then just see which one lasts the longest or even works right. I had 3 different usb-c to vga adaptors before i found one that worked reliability without blanking the screen every hour or inducing some weird colours.
USB-C having used it for the last year, is NOT ready. there are major reliability and compatibility problems. Best bet is to read the amazon reviews before you purchase. I haven't dont anything with usb-c audio but i bet its a similar nightmare.
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There is a standard. You have to look for the official USB logo on the periphirals. If it is not there, it is not a real certified USB cable or device.
That said. I had loads of trouble finding just official USB-C cables, when I lost on a holiday. The electronic stores are basically selling only non-standard "USB-C compatible" crap that isn't certified.
Stupid consumers (Score:2)
All part of the long-standing program to eliminate the 'analog hole' ... which started at about the time boomboxes stopped having audio-out jacks.
They can't win ... there are no digital speaker-cones ... but that doesn't keep them from trying ... and pissing off more and more consumers ... who, nevertheless, keep buying products that make hole-plugging easier.
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Re:It is (Score:4, Informative)
I loved this:
One of the biggest issues that companies need to navigate pertains to source and peripheral device compatibility. USB Type-C headphone cables can either be active or passive -- or manifest as a dongle adapter. This inconsistency, paired with the fact that Audio Accessory Mode has yet to be universally supported, results in a barrage of compatibility issues.
So, in other words, a complete repeat of every Bluetooth or USB audio adventure ever. No lessons learned.
(2019 and my 10 year old Sony-Ericsson BT headset still doesn't work with Sony Playstations. But at least the Playstation Store keeps getting new updates, and according to the PS4 patch notes, it must by now have the most "improved system stability" ever.)
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So, in other words, a complete repeat of every Bluetooth or USB audio adventure ever. No lessons learned.
Well the industry is used to this. I mean let's face it, it's not like the old 3.5mm plug worked universally. ... errr. oh wait yes it did.
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It's good for the purpose. But between the massive audio lag which ruins it for anything that needs audio sync like video, and compression issues, it's far from universal.