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Encryption Privacy

WhatsApp Balks at India's Demand To Break Encryption (venturebeat.com) 146

Posted by msmash from the tussle-continues dept.
An anonymous reader shares a report: As WhatsApp scrambles to figure out technology solutions to address some of the problems its service has inadvertently caused in developing markets, India's government has proposed one of its own: bring traceability to the platform so false information can be traced to its source. But WhatsApp indicated to VentureBeat over the weekend that complying with that request would undermine the service's core value of protecting user privacy. "We remain deeply committed to people's privacy and security, which is why we will continue to maintain end-to-end encryption for all of our users," the company said.

The request for traceability, which came from India's Ministry of Electronics & IT last week, was more than a suggestion. The Ministry said Facebook-owned WhatsApp would face legal actions if it failed to deliver. "When rumours and fake news get propagated by mischief mongers, the medium used for such propagation cannot evade responsibility and accountability. If they remain mute spectators they are liable to be treated as abettors and thereafter face consequent legal action," the government said. India is WhatsApp's largest market, with more than 250 million users. The country is struggling to contain the spread of fake news on digital platforms. Hoax messages and videos on the platform have incited multiple riots, costing more than two dozen lives in the country this year alone. Allowing message tracing, though, would likely undo the privacy and security that WhatsApp's one billion users worldwide expect from the service. Bringing traceability and accountability to WhatsApp would mean breaking end-to-end encryption on the platform, the company told VentureBeat.
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WhatsApp Balks at India's Demand To Break Encryption More

WhatsApp Balks at India's Demand To Break Encryption

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  • side with the authorities here (Score:4, Insightful)

    by gravewax ( 4772409 ) on Tuesday July 24, 2018 @12:31AM (#56998682)
    India has a serious problem at the moment with malicious rumours spread by social media where the intent is to get people injured or killed. tracability with a warrant I don't see as a breach of privacy or security as the person put it out to the world for everyone to see intentionally anyway, no where does it say you have a right to anonymously causes such mischief. All WhatsApp need to do is attach unique identifiers to messages when created so that when forwarded they can be traced back to the source, obviously the police already have the message so they don't need to break encryption or breach anyones privacy, what they need to know is who started the whole shitshow X that got Y people murdered.

    • Re:side with the authorities here (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 24, 2018 @12:46AM (#56998716)

      All WhatsApp need to do is attach unique identifiers to messages when created so that when forwarded they can be traced back to the source

      This is sort of why separation of powers and freedom of speech is so very vital. Yes, your example would be a valid reason for a court order and tracing, if it were possible.

      Of course, in a country where heads of state regularly assassinate political enemies, such tracing helps them too, and if there is a way to do it, a government can likely figure it out.

      Even in the US we just had our leader threaten to cancel security clearances of those who spoke out against him, which for some in the private sector, who may do unrelated work that requires a security clearance, well, that would mean they are out of work for exercising freedom of speech. He has also threatened to open up libel laws and various other ways to get even. Any republican who speaks against him gets replaced and he has like a 90% approval rating among republicans who say they are defending freedom.

      I'm not saying we shouldn't track these people down. I'm just saying you get the bad with the good. Encryption was originally classed as a munition, and in some ways it still is. Encryption these days is almost a requirement to be able to speak freely in some areas, since otherwise you might get reprisal from your boss or someone in government.

      Hell look at Peter Strok (sp?) Admittedly they didn't use encryption. He just didn't think they would start searching all his work texts, but he was basically guilty of seeing Trump run for office, forming opinions, and not significantly letting those opinions affect his work. Certainly any aid in tracing a message back to its source could have far reaching consequences in the future.

    • I understand how that sounded like a good idea in your head, trust me, it is a slippery slope. News and ad board campaigns to teach the public is a better solution imho.

      • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

        by Anonymous Coward

        I understand how that sounded like a good idea in your head, trust me, it is a slippery slope. News and ad board campaigns to teach the public is a better solution imho.

        you mean the solution they have been trying for months and has been completely unsuccessful? accountability is the only way to prevent the spread of these types of rumours, remembering most of these rumours target specific very real fears that many in remote indian communities have.

        • Re: (Score:1)

          by Anonymous Coward

          Education takes years, but is a long-term solution.

          Forcing weak encryption or adding tracking to an information-system is only an ill-fated attempt at a stop-gap measure that will only be circumvented and fail, and leads to a slippery slope of governments eroding freedom of speech.

        • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

          by Mathinker ( 909784 )

          > the only way

          Citation needed. This whole thing is like the flame wars over "the solution to spam".

          I have a different "solution". Hold the policeman of the village "accountable", instead.

          Interesting, however that this is modded up. WTF?

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by Anonymous Coward

        realistically traceability is the only real option, education and ad boards don't work when there really are people out there kidnapping there children, so why would they believe that some warnings are fake? The alternate option will be sites/apps like WhatsApp that refuse traceability will be shutdown in india (they have already had to disconnect regions temporarily from the internet to stop the spread of rumours).

        • > the only real option

          You (or other ACs) keep posting this. Unfortunately, I think it does mean what you think it means.

          That doesn't mean it's correct, however. No matter how many mod points you or your supporters have.

    • tracability with a warrant

      I thought you just asked me to side with the indian government, are you talking about a different one now?

    • Re:side with the authorities here (Score:4, Interesting)

      by sjames ( 1099 ) on Tuesday July 24, 2018 @02:38AM (#56999006) Homepage Journal

      I smell BS!

      What'sApp is by no means anonymous. You can see exactly who sent you the message. So, the procedure is as follows. Arrest rioters. Access rioter's phones. See who sent them the message(s) that kicked off the riots. Get a warrant for those phones. Iterate that until you converge on the offender.

      If that's not good enough, ask What'sApp to create What'sAppIndia which tells the user that due to demands from their government they (and only they) will have Big other invited to the party and if they don't like it, they should speak to their government about it.

    • > All WhatsApp need to do is attach unique identifiers to messages when created so that when forwarded they can be traced back to the source

      Never heard of copy/paste, eh? Wow, this really, really reminds me of the "solution to spam" wars... Yes, I'm that old...

    • Not exactly hard to get around. You use a stolen or burner phone to seed the message to your group of culprits. This is what they are probably doing anyway. If you are going to trace every hop along the forward, then you lost a lot of privacy.

      However, it makes it easy for corrupted people in power to trace anyone who is critizing or going against them. Correction in Indian politics is an accepted norm. The few defense lines are reporters, and whistleblowers. They use WhatsApp for its privacy. Lose that

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by PPH ( 736903 )

      what they need to know is who started the whole shitshow

      It was started by Vishnu.

      Really, this is an insoluble problem. Because the purpose of religion is to cultivate unquestioning followers. And any attempt to punish their leaders or remove their ability to SWAT an enemy is going to be met with at least as much violence as the occasional butchered cow.

    • India has a serious problem at the moment with malicious rumours spread by social media where the intent is to get people injured or killed.

      I can already see where you're going here. You're about to suggest they launch a huge public service campaign, and education reforms, to remind people how important critical thinking is, and that across-the-board, a modern society can't take seriously anything that isn't solidly based on evidence.

      tracability with a warrant I don't see as..

      You don't see it as necessary

  • "When rumours and fake news get propagated by mischief mongers, the medium used for such propagation cannot evade responsibility and accountability.

    So if the government mail service was used to send letters with fake news, the mail service would be accountable for any harm the misinformation caused? If you call someone on a cell and give them incorrect rumors that cause riots, the phone company is responsible for the content of the voice conversation? If you nail a flyer with misinformation to a power pole is the electric company accountable for "hosting" the message?

    The communication method used by criminals can't be held responsible for the conte

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      So if the government mail service was used to send letters with fake news, the mail service would be accountable for any harm the misinformation caused?

      if the mail service refused all requests to assist with tracing the mail then yeah. If you try this in the US the mail service will provide as much traceable information as they can to track you down.

      If you call someone on a cell and give them incorrect rumors that cause riots, the phone company is responsible for the content of the voice conversation?

      again if the phone company refuses to provide details of the caller then yeah they would be in the shit, just like they would in the US. But then in the US every call has traced anyway and the originators information would be supplied with a warrant, refusing said warrant would be a whole bucket of shit for t

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Bongo ( 13261 )

        That’s a good point. It’s the free speech v. incitement to violence issue, and where the consequences are bad enough, what can be done other than try to find the perpetrators? Laws have to suit the specific society as it is. Of course, the point about free speech is that its positives outweigh the negatives, especially as it encourages growth and development. But it needs to be paced so that you don’t break the thing which you are trying to grow. There’s always a balance with develop

    • The difference between traditional meatspace services like the mail is that they're at least to some extent traceable and will actively co-operate with authorities when their services are used for malicious purposes. What the Indian government isn't asking whatsapp to start being selective about who gets to use their platform, what they're asking for is making communication on the service more traceable so that they can track deadly hoaxes back to their originator and put a stop to those hoaxes by putting s

  • Also, all bathrooms should have transparent walls and doors, so we can see what the hell you are doing there.

    What are you hiding, citizen?
    Rape?

  • It was not entirely that related to encryption, the main matter was mob lynchings due to wrong forwarded messages that's why WhatsApp is now showing a label "Forwarded".

  • Make content publishers operating in news spaces responsible for facts they publish, but allow them to push the blame if they can come up with the author. No need to force it, let the market work it out.

  • If the service holds people accountable, then people who want to avoid that will stop using the service.
    There are lots of ways to spread anonymous rumors.

    Going after WhatsApp is just an updated version of "kill the messenger"

  • ...you can't mix first world technology with third world thinking and expect a positive result. That may not be very PC to say but the issue isn't the communication medium being used but the cultural sophistication of the message recipients.

  • India's Governing Party Trolls (Score:3)

    by PineHall ( 206441 ) on Tuesday July 24, 2018 @11:27AM (#57001048)

    India's governing party is guilty of trolling and fake news on WhatsApp [bloomberg.com] so this is all about control.

    He [Mahaveer Prasad Khileri] is a former troll for India’s ruling Bharatiya Janata Party, or the BJP. “At that time, poison was in my mind,” he said.

    Khileri was recruited by two acquaintances into the party’s social media operation in February 2014, just as Modi was racing to become India's next prime minister. He was given eight cell phones and ID’s for six different Facebook identities, he recalled in an interview in his home village of Jogaliya. He worked 18-hour days, toggling between legitimate campaign work and trolling of opponents and journalists, he said. When Modi won, the operation evolved as well, transitioning to a tool supporting Modi’s government.

    Khileri worked in what the BJP calls its ‘IT Cell,’ which effectively operated as an ad hoc troll farm, he said. The development of the cell in the world's largest democracy occurred around the same time that American authorities believe Russia began using such techniques to influence the 2016 presidential election. The researchers contributing to the institute and Google reports found similar timing in different countries and under various circumstances.

    According to Khileri, the Indian version of the trolling toolkit included strategies meant to inflame sectarian differences, malign the Muslim minority and portray Modi as savior of the Hindus. Supervisors would set themes for the day and specify targets to attack. Khileri and 300 other paid trolls would create memes or cut-and-paste Twitter posts that were sent to WhatsApp groups of tens of thousands of party loyalists. Their reposts sent hashtags viral in minutes.

    “Muslims slaughter cows, so we’d tell them, ‘When Modi comes, we will slaughter you,’” Khileri recalled. “We’d tell Hindus: ‘If you don’t vote for Modi, then Muslims will destroy you.’”

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