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Education Government United States IT Politics

What's Happening As The University of California Tries To Outsource IT Jobs To India (pressreader.com) 483

Long-time Slashdot reader Nova Express shares an epic column by Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist Michael Hiltzik. It details what's happening now as the University of California tries to outsources dozens of IT jobs -- about 20% of their IT workforce -- by February 28th. Some of the highlights:
  • The CEO of UCSF's Medical Center says he expects their security to be at least as good as it is now, but acknowledges "there are no guarantees."
  • Nine workers have filed a complaint with the state's Department of Fair Employment and Housing arguing they're facing discrimination.
  • California Senator Feinstein is already complaining that the university is tapping $8.5 billion in federal funding "to replace Californian IT workers with foreign workers or labor performed abroad."
  • Representative Zoe Lofgren (from a district in Silicon Valley) is arguing that the university "is training software engineers at the same time they're outsourcing their own software engineers. What message are they sending their own students?"
  • 57-year-old sys-admin Kurt Ho says his replacement spent just two days with him, then "told me he would go back to India and train his team, and would be sending me emails with questions."
  • The university's actions will ultimately lower their annual $5.83 billion budget by just 0.1%.

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What's Happening As The University of California Tries To Outsource IT Jobs To India

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  • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 08, 2017 @09:37PM (#53630999)

    Universities have never been more than a bottom-line for-profit business that uses cult-like recruiting tactics and has absolutely no shame or loyalty to anything or anyone but themselves.

    I hope this is becoming a bit clearer to everyone now, as in the past I've been ridiculed for blasting universities as money-driven cults.

    They provide very little value in the modern world and should be used sparingly.

    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by sabri ( 584428 )

      Universities have never been more than a bottom-line for-profit business that uses cult-like recruiting tactics and has absolutely no shame or loyalty to anything or anyone but themselves.

      Just like the folks in Washington, representing this government funded university. Read this article to see how Feinstein responded to pleas for help from affected workers [computerworld.com].

      A University of California IT employee whose job is being outsourced to India recently wrote Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) for help. Feinstein's office sent back a letter ... and offered the worker no assistance.

      • by __aaclcg7560 ( 824291 ) on Sunday January 08, 2017 @10:32PM (#53631195)

        A University of California IT employee whose job is being outsourced to India recently wrote Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) for help. Feinstein's office sent back a letter ... and offered the worker no assistance.

        If you send a letter to the Washington, D.C., office, you will get back a form letter. If you send a letter to the local or state office, you will get personal response (most of the time). If you want to be effective in politics, it starts at the grassroots.

        • The university's actions will ultimately lower their annual $5.83 billion budget by just 0.1%.

          But the bonuses and profits of the outsourcing operation and the key stakeholders in the universities will enjoy their kickbacks and high end dinners.

      • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

        by budgenator ( 254554 )

        Bahahahaha, they thought Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) [wikipedia.org], was going to effectively intercede with Janet Napolitano [wikipedia.org] to help rich American white guys keep their jobs, from being outsourced to poor brown guys, due to financial realities of the reduced care reimbursements to providers under Obamacare and increased demand from illegal immigrants in sanctuary cities!

        Those IT guys should get the buttercup award for being a special kind of snowflake!

    • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

      by gumbright ( 574609 )
      This is likely the dumbest thing I will read today. Assuming, of course, that you aren't going to post a followup.
      • by Goldsmith ( 561202 ) on Sunday January 08, 2017 @10:39PM (#53631233)

        I wouldn't be as... caustic in my critique of universities as the OP, but I can definitely understand the sentiment.

        I think the problem is that many people think that universities should all act like non-profit educational institutions. In reality, the "best" universities act like (for-profit) partnerships performing professional research services, and they are very, very good at this. Certainly, this is where the majority of UC funding comes from.

        If you paid for an undergrad degree at a research institution, and didn't understand that you should have been working in some famous professor's lab to actually get your education, you're going to be pretty upset when you get out.

        • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

          by Anonymous Coward

          Is UC a state university, though? State universities absolutely should act like non-profit educational institutions. Otherwise what is the public interest in being involved?

          • by sycodon ( 149926 )

            A-Fucking-Men.

            These universities are ultimately under the control of the Legislature. The CA Government is swarming with Democrats, yet none of them seem to give a fuck about good jobs being sent out of the country. Why is that?

            Seriously...it wasn't all that long ago they'd be all over this like bees on an open soda can.

        • by Bongo ( 13261 ) on Monday January 09, 2017 @04:26AM (#53632053)

          If you paid for an undergrad degree at a research institution, and didn't understand that you should have been working in some famous professor's lab to actually get your education, you're going to be pretty upset when you get out.

          And didn't understand... because someone should have taught you that when you were 14, so this basically blames the schools for not properly educating kids about the ways of the world. Fair enough.

          I'd suggest it goes a little further though. The left has a bias or belief that problems are the fault of society, whereas the right tends to bias to the belief that problems are the fault of the individual. Now, the problem is that, the left tends to be more associated with education (because if society and its institutions are the problem, then those are the institutions which need to be improved, and education needs to be improved). So the left is more idealistic about the role of education. See it is implicit. But what you're saying is, from more of a right wing point of view, hey nobody should be an idiot, or ignorant, to the fact that the world is competitive and selfish place, and that individuals have to learn to handle this, mostly via self control and character building and smarts (so don't come crying when you become a victim).

          And that, I think, is fair enough, as there is no real difference between the "individual" and "society", as ideological categories, because we are always both, we are all individuals and we all live in society and are part of social institutions. Individuals have agency. Groups have communion. And we always act and function in both. So the problems are often found in both places. (A way forward for politics is to become both left and right wing).

          So I would just add that, I agree in the sense that, our society needs to spend more time acclimatising kids to "how the world works", as by nature, humans are both competitive and cooperative. And we need to be educated to understand when and where each one is the dominant driver. So I do agree, it is right to tell people that they need to wise up about American universities. But I wouldn't blame kids for not knowing that already, if they haven't been taught.

          • > The left has a bias or belief that problems are the fault of society, whereas the right tends to bias to the belief that problems are the fault of the individual.

            That's reasonably fair and I realize this is a bit of a tangent to your main point, but I don't know that "fault" is necessarily the right word. I believe that my daughter, who is black and of course female, can become a supreme court justice, president, or chairwoman of the joint chiefs DESPITE whatever is wrong with society, and that it'

      • This is likely the dumbest thing I will read today.

        I have read something dumber: TFA. The headline and the very first sentence contradict each other. The headline says the jobs are going TO India. The first sentence says they are going to immigrants FROM India. Which is it? TFA is obviously biased smear journalism, but geez, at least the basic facts should be clearly stated.

        • by l0n3s0m3phr34k ( 2613107 ) on Monday January 09, 2017 @02:16AM (#53631827)
          That's part of the shuffle going on here. First, they bring in the immigrants to train in California. Some might stay. The University is still tweaking the plan IRT. Some Indians are going back to India to train "their own teams". Some might stay here. So, it's both. No one seemed to notice that it's ONE GUY in the US, and will become a WHOLE TEAM in India.

          This is going to be a disaster. You can't learn a system in two days. Even with perfect documentation, you need way more time. This isn't some coding project. The sys admin mention probably manages dozens of undocumented systems. Stuff will work for a while, but after the first power outage, time change, etc...someone4 is going to be calling these guys up constantly getting information from them for the rest of their lives.
        • "The first sentence says they are going to immigrants FROM India."

          The headline does not contradict the article. These people are not immigrants in the conventional sense, who come to the US to acculturate and become a part of our society. H-1B is a special peonage deal for chintzy employers, by which the worker gets a temporary visa, good only for a specific employer, and then must return home. India gets a trained IT worker while California's own workers, immigrant and otherwise, get unemployment.

    • Universities have never been more than a bottom-line for-profit business that uses cult-like recruiting tactics and has absolutely no shame or loyalty to anything or anyone but themselves.

      I hope this is becoming a bit clearer to everyone now, as in the past I've been ridiculed for blasting universities as money-driven cults.

      They provide very little value in the modern world and should be used sparingly.

      In your above comment I agree and frankly I'm a bit shocked that you did not suggest finding the ass-hat that gets a bonus for this grand money making scheme. Since, as the illustrious Senator pointed out, there are federal tax dollars involved, it would be nice to know if a company of foreign origin has imparted any finders fee, gift, promise of future employment, etc. to an ass-hat currently working for the Great State of California, or a contractor thereof...

      Sorry we pile on so often, but you must admit

    • by execthis ( 537150 ) on Monday January 09, 2017 @04:27AM (#53632055)

      Universities have never been more than a bottom-line for-profit business that uses cult-like recruiting tactics and has absolutely no shame or loyalty to anything or anyone but themselves.

      Not all. I take courses at an urban community college and these classes are inexpensive and high quality. The college offers 2-year associate degrees to many people who would otherwise find it difficult to get any degree, as well as offering numerous certificates and types of training, not to mention cultural and artistic enrichment which are also very important.

      They are always struggling financially but they serve a vital function in the community.

  • Awesome (Score:5, Funny)

    by barrywalker ( 1855110 ) on Sunday January 08, 2017 @09:38PM (#53631001)
    Now your IT department will be trying to fleece the faculty and students with scam phone calls about how their computers are infected with viruses.

    Bravo, nitwits.
    • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward

      They are just doing the needful on priority and at the earliest. They will revert when complete.

    • Re:Awesome (Score:5, Funny)

      by swb ( 14022 ) on Sunday January 08, 2017 @10:01PM (#53631083)

      What happens when Indian IT people in the US get scam computer virus calls from India? Does it create some kind of singularity that causes both of them to move to another dimension?

      Or is it more like:

      "I am calling from the Microsoft support center and I wish to tell you your computer has a virus"

      "Nilesh? What are you doing? I thought you were going to work in the civil service section your family controls."

      "Premal, since Modi has withdrawn the large rupee notes my uncle can no longer give me a job in the civil service and I must work at the call center and to tell you your computer has a virus."

      • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

        by ghoul ( 157158 )

        Scams were not invented in India. In fact scam calling is just another form of outsourcing where US based criminals use low paid foreign workers to do the grunt work. So if no singularity happened when Americans were scamming Americans none will happen when Indians scam Indians.

    • why go to that when you have students with unlimited loans you get for that and more.

  • Automatic. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 08, 2017 @09:42PM (#53631013)

    Shouldn't be any discussion about this. If a UNIVERSITY is outsourcing. They should instantly lose all federal and state funding.

    Wanna behave like a private company? Get treated like one. No taxpayer soup for you.

    • Re:Automatic. (Score:5, Insightful)

      by AuMatar ( 183847 ) on Sunday January 08, 2017 @09:44PM (#53631023)

      More than that- this is a state university. Not a private one like Harvard. Its basically owned by the government. So its the government outsourcing these jobs.

    • by Okian Warrior ( 537106 ) on Sunday January 08, 2017 @10:18PM (#53631143) Homepage Journal

      Shouldn't be any discussion about this. If a UNIVERSITY is outsourcing. They should instantly lose all federal and state funding.

      Wanna behave like a private company? Get treated like one. No taxpayer soup for you.

      It's a fine position, but how about the rest of the debate?

      California was four-square against the recent election outcome, which was in large part *against* globalism. Lots and lots of supporters here and in the MSM were arguing the benefits of this sort of thing from every viewpoint. Some people lose their jobs, but the economy prospers overall. Those jobs are never coming back. We'll be losing all of them to AI anyway.

      California is so much against the populist uprising that they are implementing sanctuary cities (and sanctuary universities), giving illegal immigrants drivers licenses and the ability to vote, and generally planning to oppose any new federal mandates and changes (such as deportation of illegals).

      And yes, it's the California cities which are [politically] deep blue, while the rest is generally red.

      So how does this position fit into the rest of the debate? How can one show outrage over this situation and still support the [generally accepted as] liberal Californian viewpoint which embraces globalism?

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by dbIII ( 701233 )

        giving illegal immigrants drivers licenses and the ability to vote

        Just like the old days when your grandpa came over, only he wouldn't have been called illegal unless he was Chinese.
        California can't stop them and the Feds are not even trying so why not accept reality instead of fucking about. Those cut-price illegal workers the Republicans love to have babysitting their kids need to drive to do their below minimum wage work so they are allowed licences no matter who is Governor of the state. Decades of go

        • plus California used to be part of Mexico FFS so what the fuck is the problem?

          This part of your rant is irrelevant. People don't get to automatically become citizens just because their home nation used to own some land, centuries ago, that is now owned by some other nation. I'm pretty sure citizens of Belgium do not get to automatically become citizens of the Netherlands if they wish it, just because Belgium used to be part of the Netherlands centuries ago. Citizens of Italy sure as hell don't get to aut

          • by dbIII ( 701233 )

            This part of your rant is irrelevant.

            So ignore it. It's a throwaway line about things changing over time and nothing more.

          • If you can convince the Israelis of that you could win the Nobel Peace Prize...
        • giving illegal immigrants drivers licenses and the ability to vote

          Just like the old days when your grandpa came over, only he wouldn't have been called illegal unless he was Chinese.
          California can't stop them and the Feds are not even trying so why not accept reality instead of fucking about. Those cut-price illegal workers the Republicans love to have babysitting their kids need to drive to do their below minimum wage work so they are allowed licences no matter who is Governor of the state. Decades of government constipation on the issue has just resulted in millions of quasi-citizens who have neither been turned back or made citizens. It's been going on for so long that they are citizens in all but name, plus California used to be part of Mexico FFS so what the fuck is the problem?

          It's really amazing just how much talking out your ass in this thread are you going to do ? First I see you making crap up about a fmr sec def's academics now I just see you pulling crap out of your ass completely. But lets look at it, if you came here in the 1800s and were Irish you got your citizenship more likely than not by fighting in the Civil War. If you came here in the early 20th century you had to go through naturalization.

          In either case you didn't get welfare benefits or the right to vote without

    • Re:Automatic. (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 08, 2017 @10:27PM (#53631181)

      I used to be an H1B, and this is indeed inexcusable. It's not even just about jobs lost, but what happened to matters such as national pride and the associated symbolism? If the universities of the country - the institutions that educate and train workers for its industries - are refusing to hire those very workers to perform jobs that the universities need, that says a lot about either the usefulness of the degrees that they teach, or the quality of their education. If they're claiming that Indian workers (with Indian degrees) are really "good enough", why even bother with expensive American education? And make no mistake, it's not just a message for the citizens; people abroad will notice as well.

    • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

      by ghoul ( 157158 )

      So you want public money to be used to overpay govt employees instead of getting the best value for the money by using the lower cost private sector provider. No wonder taxes are so high in California.

      • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

        by Anonymous Coward

        You mean do I want American tax payer dollars recycled back into the US economy and not send to India?

        Yes.

      • Re:Automatic. (Score:4, Insightful)

        by EmeraldBot ( 3513925 ) on Sunday January 08, 2017 @11:12PM (#53631361)

        So you want public money to be used to overpay govt employees instead of getting the best value for the money by using the lower cost private sector provider. No wonder taxes are so high in California.

        That's also why California has beautiful national parks, expansive and well maintained roads, and is the center of no less than three major industries. Oklahoma has low taxes, and that's about all it has. What good is cheap if it's absolutely worthless?

        • by rossz ( 67331 )

          well maintained roads

          What the hell have you been smoking?

          • Re:Automatic. (Score:5, Interesting)

            by EmeraldBot ( 3513925 ) on Sunday January 08, 2017 @11:47PM (#53631467)

            well maintained roads

            What the hell have you been smoking?

            If you think California's roads are bad, I advise you to try New Hampshire's sometime. So granite is the state that we still use gravel and dirt roads, and when there's any asphalt to be seen, it's 35 years old and has fissures the size of the Grand Canyon. And yes, I've lived in both of these states. I think it's fair to say that California has a well maintained road network for its size, and if we're talking about a low tax state like New Hampshire or Indiana, you'd realize the difference almost immediately.

            • by Khyber ( 864651 )

              The roads are maintained by prison labor in California.

              I doubt NH has any sort of sizable prison population to make such an endeavor possible.

            • I think it's fair to say that California has a well maintained road network for its size,

              The interstates are generally well maintained. The freeways in and around the LA/OC area are a fucking travesty. Potholes everywhere. Some roads are crumbling and coming apart in chunks. They only fix the worst of the worst, and it takes them several years to get to it. I work in the north SFV area, and I've only seen them repave 4 streets in the ~5 miles around my office in the last decade, and only just recently. Meanwhile, the freeways are constantly "under construction" but you rarely see them working o

        • by Khyber ( 864651 )

          "expansive and well maintained roads"

          Non-Californian detected!

          • "expansive and well maintained roads"

            Non-Californian detected!

            I assure you, I have lived in Cali for several continuous years, and I have the Soup Plantation receipts to prove it. California's road system is pretty decent, and when you look at its size, it's impressive. Even on the death hills by my house, there are railguards at the edges, no cracks in the roads, and they actually repair roads from wear and tear. Trying to navigate a mountain in New Hampshire is a nightmare, as is trying to get almost anywhere else; Californians are a lucky people (well, admittedly m

      • But that, of course, is the debate. Is it really "the best value for the money"? I call your homily with a truism "you get what you pay for".

  • My surprise is that anyone is still surprised. Since the dawn of any kind of technology, people you didn't expect have taken it for the purpose of achieving the same thing that you have achieve - financial gain and security. Whether it's a person, company, university, or country. Is it really surprising that all of our innovations around knowledge work, IT, etc are being consumed by other more eager people to find jobs that they can fill for lower cost than we desire?? If anything, the new part of i
  • by Anonymous Coward

    Senator Feinstein heal thyself! H1-B increase after H1-B increase.

  • by Nutria ( 679911 ) on Sunday January 08, 2017 @09:52PM (#53631065)

    Working in IT, I'm not too thrilled by this, but that one statement shows a complete lack of thought.

    To paraphrase not-Everett Dirksen, "A tenth of a percent here, a tenth of a percent there, pretty soon you're talking real savings."

    • Working in IT, I'm not too thrilled by this, but that one statement shows a complete lack of thought.

      That's nothing. I worked for a Fortune 500 company that demanded that the help desk providers provide twice the performance for half the cost. When a provider couldn't deliver, they gave the contract to a different provider. Each time the help desk staff got smaller and smaller. When I checked several years ago, they still haven't achieved twice the performance for half the cost after turning over providers three or four times.

  • by maugle ( 1369813 ) on Sunday January 08, 2017 @09:54PM (#53631069)

    The university's actions will ultimately lower their annual $5.83 billion budget by just 0.1%.

    It doesn't take a fortune teller to see how this will end. Anyone with experience with low-cost offshore replacements knows that after the painful transition and a slow degradation of IT performance (with all the slowness, bugs, and embarrassing security breaches that come with it), the fallout of the university's decision will ultimately cost a hell of a lot more to fix than what is saved up front.

    • you left out the best part, where identity information from the University systems are sold to scammers, spammers, etc.

  • by aaronb1138 ( 2035478 ) on Sunday January 08, 2017 @10:12PM (#53631119)
    Color me shocked! Shocked I say. It blows my mind she has an entire history built around how amazing she is to hold so many high positions as a woman, but it doesn't take much work to see, it's a history of failures and exceptional levels of mediocrity. I don't know why the democratic party an their insiders keep backing her and getting her jobs.
  • by __aaclcg7560 ( 824291 ) on Sunday January 08, 2017 @10:19PM (#53631151)

    Representative Zoe Lofgren (from a district in Silicon Valley) is arguing that the university "is training software engineers at the same time they're outsourcing their own software engineers. What message are they sending their own students?"

    Same message as the law schools: "We're happy to take your money. If you can't find a job after you graduate, tough shit. You should have thought carefully about your major's future potential before taking on $100K in student loans."

    • by grep -v '.*' * ( 780312 ) on Monday January 09, 2017 @12:42AM (#53631661)

      It's over. Mr. Trump is someone else's POTUS. But not mine.

      Sorry to inform you, if you're a citizen of the US, then he's gong to be your president unless something extraordinary happens. Period, full stop, the end. You might not have voted for him, you might hate his guts and politics and wish him ill, and until he takes to oath of office he ISN'T your president -- but once he does, he is.

      *I* didn't vote for Obama and didn't like a lot of things that he did (and didn't do.) But looks like his hopey changie thing is finally working itself out.

      Then again, if you really don't want him to be your president, you can always renounce your U.S. citizenship and pick exactly who you'd like. Once, anyway. I suggest you move to Canada [google.com] like these people AREN'T. Or you could join Cher [bizpacreview.com], I'm sure she's going to be lonely on (in?) Jupiter.

      And by the way, I'm curious: are you on either coast? I'm in flyover country. (Well actually not, I'm not even that close to the aerial lanes.)

  • by wisnoskij ( 1206448 ) on Sunday January 08, 2017 @10:35PM (#53631215) Homepage

    Why is their budget bigger than most countries?
    They will save 60 million dollars by outsourced 20% of the workforce? I have worked in IT in one of the highest internationally acclaimed universities, it was just 2 full time guys with 2 student helpers for 1/5th of the university. I really doubt that the total yearly salaries exceeded 200K.

    Keeping a few thousand computers and a few server rooms running is really not that big of a job.

  • by unixisc ( 2429386 ) on Sunday January 08, 2017 @11:02PM (#53631331)

    The headline makes it look like the entire University of California is outsourcing their IT to India. Everyone - San Francisco, Berkeley, Santa Cruz, Riverside, Irvine, San Diego, Davis, LA, et al

    Is that really the case? I was under the impression that the only people doing that was UCSF. It also brings to mind one question - why can't UCSF outsource that job to UCB, which is just across the Bay Bridge? Let the descendants of the BSD inventors manage their IT

    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Except that UCSF is indeed just the start:

      "According to notes from an Aug. 5 meeting of UC's IT Architecture Committee, chief information officers at other campuses are happy to let UCSF act as a guinea pig and will "wait for a year before jumping in with HCL" in order to gauge UCSF's experience.

      https://www.pressreader.com/

  • Instead of the old standby "Have you tried turning it off and on again?" IT support can now come back with "Have you tried reincarnating the OS instance?"

  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • by orin ( 113079 ) on Sunday January 08, 2017 @11:41PM (#53631443)
    Slashdot on manufacturing jobs being sent offshore: "Suck it up and smell the future. You are just like the buggy whip manufacturers!"
    Slashdot on IT jobs being sent offshore: "This Is An Outrage!!!!!"
  • by sabbede ( 2678435 ) on Monday January 09, 2017 @07:52AM (#53632595)
    It's a university. If they want cheap labor, they have it right there in the dorms. The only jobs that would make any sense to outsource are in support, and I know from personal experience that students will do those jobs for very little. Hell, pick a job and there are going to be dozens of students that would leap at the chance for some real-worldish experience.

    Outsourcing IT jobs is going to reduce opportunities for financial aid and job training for the students; undermining the basic mission of universities. Dumb move UC.

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