DDoS Attack Halts Heating in Finland Amidst Winter (metropolitan.fi) 138
A Distributed Denial of Service (DDoS) attack halted heating distribution at least in two properties in the city of Lappeenranta, located in Eastern Finland. In both of these events, the attacks disabled the computers that were controlling heating in the buildings. An anonymous reader writes: Both of the buildings were managed by Valtia, the company which is in charge of managing the buildings overall operation and maintenance. According to Valtia CEO, Simo Ruonela, in both cases the systems that controlled the central heating and warm water circulation were disabled. In the city of Lappeenranta, there were at least two buildings whose systems were knocked down by the network attack. According to Rounela, the attack in Eastern Finland lasted from late October to Thursday -- the 3rd of November. The systems that were attacked tried to respond to the attack by rebooting the main control circuit. This was repeated over and over so that heating was never working.
Amidst Winter? (Score:3, Funny)
I know it's cold in Finland this time of year, but the first day of winter is still a month and a half in the future.
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"Winter" in cold areas is anywhere from October to April
Technically Winter is only 3 months long... but 'feels like winter'... that is another thing entirely.
I used to go trick or treating as a kid during snow storms... and I didn't even live in THAT cold of a place
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"Winter" in cold areas is anywhere from October to April
Technically Winter is only 3 months long... but 'feels like winter'... that is another thing entirely.
I used to go trick or treating as a kid during snow storms... and I didn't even live in THAT cold of a place
Let's just be clear. If you lived someplace where frozen water literally falls out of the sky... you lived in THAT cold of a place.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
The issue is that "winter" doesn't mean the same thing to everyone. I used to argue with my (Finnish) wife about this for a while, but Finns typically refer to something which translates as "thermal winter" (terminen talvi) which starts on the first day the average temperature for an area consistently drops below 0C
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The issue is that "winter" doesn't mean the same thing to everyone.
Indeed. I lived in China for a few years, and there winter starts on Dec 1st and ends on Mar 1st. That makes more sense, since it syncs up with both the calendar and the weather. The first 21 days of Dec are shorter and usually colder than the first 21 days of March.
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Below 0C? Hell, that's not cold! Admittedly I'm living in Nawth Ca'lina now, far different from my years in Massachusetts, Bavaria, and winters in northern Maine.
Re:Amidst Winter? (Score:5, Interesting)
The temperature in Helsinki is below freezing and isn't expected to get above freezing even during the daytime highs for at least a week. That's close enough to winter for me, no matter what the divide the year into four equal seasons says.
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Its -6C(22F in retarded units) in Lappeenranta right now which sounds Wintery to me.
Re:Amidst Winter? (Score:5, Funny)
I believe you mean 22 in Freedom Units.
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That's wintery? Pft wimps. That's still shorts weather in Canada, and I'm not even kidding. You'll see people out here in t-shirts and shorts when it's -10C(14F), it's only when the windchill starts kicking in and it's really cold that winter starts. Most people here don't consider it winter until there's 6cm of snow on the ground and it hits -15C in the daytime(or twilight).
Re:Amidst Winter? (Score:5, Funny)
I know it's cold in Finland this time of year, but the first day of winter is still a month and a half in the future.
Yes, this is the most important part of the story. Who cares if some dipshit HVAC system failed due to a DDOS attack, disabling heat for buildings in sub-freezing temperatures. What we should really be discussing is this completely unacceptable disregard for when winter actually starts!
Re:Amidst Winter? (Score:4, Insightful)
Seriously, there is absolutely NO good that comes from wiring up every little thing to the internet. What's the purpose behind connecting this to the open internet?
Call me a Luddite and get these things off of the open internet. These idiots deserve what happens to them and those same idiots should be held accountable when someone dies from their ineptitude.
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Seriously, there is absolutely NO good that comes from wiring up every little thing to the internet.
Wiring things up to IP networks provides remote control which saves time, money, and effort.
The reason they wind up connected to the internet is because internet connectivity is a commodity available through Internet service providers as a consumer service and other network-based services are not commodities, or require hiring professionals to help design and build, or paying the service provider extra cos
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These idiots deserve what happens
Which idiots do you mean? The poor folks having no heating or the service provider company that is not serving its customers?
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You haven't been in Europe this week have you? It's winter come 2 months early right now. Snowfall almost record early in the year and much of Europe had below freezing temperatures over the last few days.
For all intents and purposes as far as heating a house goes, it's the middle of winter.
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You haven't been in Europe this week have you? It's winter come 2 months early right now. Snowfall almost record early in the year and much of Europe had below freezing temperatures over the last few days.
Sen Jim Inhofe must be celebrating this further evidence of Global Warming being a hoax!
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You haven't been in Europe this week have you? It's winter come 2 months early right now. Snowfall almost record early in the year and much of Europe had below freezing temperatures over the last few days.
For all intents and purposes as far as heating a house goes, it's the middle of winter.
If there's one thing the internet taught me is that you really meant to say "intensive purposes." Cause freezing cold is intense!
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Winter is still coming.
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I know it's cold in Finland this time of year, but the first day of winter is still a month and a half in the future.
You didn't see the white ravens released from the Citadel last June? Winter is here.
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I know it's cold in Finland this time of year, but the first day of winter is still a month and a half in the future.
Maybe in the Anglo-Saxon world. But in the nordics we use the meteorological definitions. Hence, "First day of winter" isn't a day on the almanac, it's officially announced by the met office. (And typically on the news, weather segment).
The official definition of winter being; the average temperature being below freezing for five days in a row. (The other limit being 10C. I.e. above 10C for five days, then it's summer, below then it's autumn.
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Probably only going to get worse (Score:1)
This time last year, I had my boiler replaced. While shopping around for a new one, a number of companies attempted to flog me cloud-based heating solutions.
"You can control it from your mobile phone."
"It knows you've left the house and turns itself off."
"It can be made to learn when you're coming home, and to switch on so that the house is warm when you get in."
"You can have them installed in your elderly relatives' homes, and control their heating for them, remotely."
My first thought was, well, if I can c
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I suppose that's batter than bloody freezing.
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"It knows you've left the house and turns itself off."
Will it call the plumber when the pipes freeze?
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You know that none of the systems on the market work like this right?
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So very sorry [merriam-webster.com]
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Actually the Nest thermostat did that to quite a few people when the mandatory firmware update was pushed to their unit while they were on vacation and the units failed to work post-update. It's the #1 reason I won't buy a Nest or any similar cloud controlled product.
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Actually the Nest thermostat did that
Actually the Nest had a major fault as the result of a botched firmware update. The way Nests works for many people all over the world without any issue what so ever is to have a safety temperature which brings me back to:
"You know none of the systems on the market work like this right?"
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Eh, it's not as big and scary as you make it sound out to be.
There's a perl module someone wrote so you can self host the front end.
You can also change your DNS and redirect stuff to where ever you want it.
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That's exactly it. An intranet controllable thermostat suitable for control from a browser and a well documented REST based API would be potentially useful. Ideally it should have a switch to take it off of the network and operate in local-only mode in case of trouble. A thermostat that has to phone home to work is a terrible idea.
I can't decide if the big push for the cloud when it comes to the (id)IOT is based primarily on incompetence or a cynical move to lock people in.
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My first thought was, well, if I can control all this shit remotely, so could someone else.
Yeah.... I do think there's a simple solution though.
"Sanity-protected smart thermostat"
Put the system on an automated internet-connected thermostat, But in the wiring include a supplementary Limiting device in series
with the Smart stat which will transfer control of heat to a mechanical T-stat if temperature exceeds 68 degrees,
Or if temperature drops below 60 degrees... And transfer control of A/C to mech
Explain to me (Score:5, Insightful)
1. Why are these infrastructure computers reachable from the Internet?
2. Why this system doesn't fail safe if the controller is taken down?
Yet another cautionary tale of IoT woe, but also some seemingly bad design...
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I do security in automotive. This is a classic case of a design which did not consider security whatsoever. But, like you say, a lack of robustness in the design exacerbates the security problem, because attackers can more easily cause big problems.
Getting into the nitty gritty details (which the article does not), there are two ways I can see a DDoS causing systems to go down:
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I do security in automotive.
Personal request, since your industry doesn't quite get it, please help fellow nerds and add an easily accessible jumper somewhere to turn it all off. I don't want my car to have an ability to connect to anything, but right now finding, isolating, and/or disabling radios is very involved process.
Much appreciated!
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Actually, neither problem is that hard to solve with appropriate hardware. You just have to rate limit the network interrupt by only re-enabling it if there is room in the Rx queue. Another answer is to use a dedicated I/O processor for networking and a main processor that polls it only when idle. You can get WiFi devices with such a dedicated CPU built in these days. If it gets a DDOS, the I/O processor gets overloaded and polls from the main CPU just time out and the device continues to operate normally i
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Thinking about it, if they're actually thinking of relocating tennants rather than just unplugging the internet connection, it must be #1 :-(
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1. Why are these infrastructure computers reachable from the Internet? 2. Why this system doesn't fail safe if the controller is taken down? Yet another cautionary tale of IoT woe, but also some seemingly bad design...
Exactly. I've been working in Facilities Management for 16 years. I have a LOT of experience with Building Automation systems and Building Monitoring systems. If these dummies were stupid enough to put their Building Automation System on the Internet and didn't bother to put the infrastructure in place to provide adequate security and/or failsafe modes for controller or communications failures, then they deserve what they got.
This is not the way the pros do it. I've never heard of this management comp
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Viva el Internet of things XD
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2. Why this system doesn't fail safe if the controller is taken down?
Yet another cautionary tale of IoT woe, but also some seemingly bad design...
It is actually failsafe, because the system goes safely to a safe state when the control is lost. The heater running at full blast would certainly not be failsafe...
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2. Why this system doesn't fail safe if the controller is taken down?
Yet another cautionary tale of IoT woe, but also some seemingly bad design...
It is actually failsafe, because the system goes safely to a safe state when the control is lost. The heater running at full blast would certainly not be failsafe...
The definition of "failsafe" depends a great deal on where you are. In areas where it's cold more than it's hot, the heater running at full blast definitely is the failsafe condition. I have had to deal with that exact issue. Midsummer we had a failure in the temperature control system. All the heaters were running full blast. I was told it's part of the building code here, a requirement.
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1. This system relies on remote control. On loss of remote signal it would likely happily operate autonomously. This doesn't excuse the fact that it wasn't locked behind a tight VPN though.
2. It did fail safe. On loss of control the safe thing to do is shutdown and turn off energy sources, no blindly feed heat into apartments. That's the key here, on loss of the computer it would probably operate autonomously using the last setpoint, this is called Loss of View (loss of the computer commanding the controlle
Re:Explain to me Why? (Score:2)
Default ought to return to my 80 year old, still working bimetallic thermostat, with no electronics. Never failed in 80 years.
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We are not talking about a remote control that is for some absurd reason controlling your local heating in the house.
We actually are talking about remotely distributed heat, hot water, steam, to heat the houses in question.
Otherwise the owners could simply fiddle with the controls I guess.
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Why are these infrastructure computers reachable from the Internet?
If I were a city council purchasing a heating system, and one option was 20% cheaper and and could be controlled and configured by offsite engineers even in the middle of an impenetrable blizzard, while the other one couldn't -- then choosing the first (connected to internet) is a no-brainer.
Re: Explain to me (Score:1)
Fail safe is usually to disable system - as in this case.
As for backup comms route ( manual in building, sms or even plain old modem ) good point
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Yes, my first question was "why are these things connected to the internet in the first place?" The only rational reason would mean to operate remotely. Again "Why?" Then the next question is "There is no manual operation/override, that seems a bit dumb?"
I've seen things like this with Wind Turbines, being "controlled" by the manufacture a continent away over the internet, which at first blush seems a bad idea. However as you say there is a default fail safe in place basically a windows safemode, not to men
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Jumalauta! It's damned cold in Finland right now. You really expect them to trudge through the snow just to flip some switches? That may be what they do in sunny Spain, but in Finland they are smart and stay inside!
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Or:
Why send out a repair crew when the user can be helped with a phone call?
So the energy producers know what load to expect every year.
It's more sensitive and better for the earth?
Think of the local IT networking jobs for design, support and upgrades.
It makes the design look more modern and stand out from other brands.
so Hollywood isn't too far off? (Score:2)
Yeh, even heating systems should be hardened (Score:1)
Turn off the heating in a critical office building to shut the office down. Even heating systems are critical in cold countries.
Even heating should be hardened and not available to Putin attack.
2007 Russian cyber attacks Estonia, blocking banking, government, newspaper headlines and Estonian Reform Party head quarters. This was after Russia tried and failed a propaganda attack during that years elections. Does that sound familiar? They failed to get their stooge into power.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007
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Currently, the Reform Party will probably lose control of the government and Centre Party is expected to take over given the fractious nature of the governing coalition. So maybe Putin will finally succeed in getting his stooge into power. Maybe he'll screw up spectacularly before turning the country over to Putin and his merry band of kleptocrats.
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Why, oh why, do software engineers (or maybe just coders) allow external access to mission critical processes?
Why would a software engineer have any control over this? This sounds more like an individual implementation issue where the property managers exposed the systems directly to the internet instead of securing them properly.
Moron designed systems fail (Score:3)
Sorry but if your heating system is 100% cloud based so that a DDOS attack or internet outage will stop heat control, then it was designed by the worlds biggest morons.
Cloud based is great for toys, for anything important it's 100% shit.
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They didn't DDOS the internet, they DDOSed the device controlling the heater itself. This also isn't cloud based and has nothing to do with the cloud and everything to do with remote control of infrastructure.
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In other words, the device was connected to the cloud so that it could be attacked. And since they apparently can't fix it by disconnecting the controller from the internet (they're talking about relocating tenants), it is cloud dependent. Cloud doesn't JUST mean a massive provider like Amazon.
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In the sense that Cloud is more a marketing term than a technical one, yes. It's basically just the hipster way to say internet. It often indicates some sort of dependence on a remote server somewhere, generally unwarranted.
It's a reference to the cloud icon in old style data flow diagrams.
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And don't get me started on when programs became apps.
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In other words, the device was connected to the cloud
Yes because Slashdot has deranged to the point where a network connection is now suddenly a cloud, even the same remote management systems that have existed since the internet first came online.
Someone with your UID should know better.
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"The Cloud" is just marketing speak for being utterly dependent on a remote server on the internet. How did you miss that one? Marketers like calling it the cloud because it's so fluffy.
OP's point stands, it was stupid as hell to make the thing so that a flood or any other loss of connectivity would cause it to fail at it's most important function. Which end of the connection is DDOSed is of little importance to determining the level of stupidity.
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Except it's not Cloud dependent. Remote access does not mean something is cloud dependent. It means that some additional abilities are exposed by it and this is something which we have doing since the day you first singed up to Slashdot.
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According to TFA, the system failed as a result of the DDOS and they were talkiong about relocating people.
I have seen a followup article from another source saying that the system was actually maintaining the last temperature set and could be disconnected from the internet. That does put a very different light on the situation, but it is from a different article and different information.
But you're still missing it. The only thing new about "The Cloud" is calling it "The Cloud". One of it's more famous co
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the system failed as a result of the DDOS
Yes, by forcing the main controller to reboot. What does this have to do with the cloud again? Again there's nothing new or cloudish here. Shithouse security for a device that was remotely operated, nothing more. An attack on the device directly caused it to reboot over and over again. That's a denial of service. DDOS doesn't mean "cut off internet access", it just means "cut off access" the means are not relevant.
This isn't virtual cloud someone else's computer anything. It's a physical machine with option
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Again, going by the first article, relocating people implied that disconnecting it from the internet wasn't a viable solution. The onlyu reason that would be is if it depended on tyhe internet. Is that hard to grok?
No need to argue further over the name. Call it purple parakeet poop if you like. No skin off of my nose if someone says cloud and you look like a fool because you don't know what it might mean. (Why not, they look like fools for not knowing it's just the same-old with a shiny new name.)
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Honestly it probably comes down to lowest common denominator journalism. I'm clearly applying some biases to my reading.
Re:Moron designed systems fail, ... so (Score:5, Insightful)
Let a mechanical thermostat be the default control when the computer fails, regardless of why!
You anti-science denialist scum! (Score:1, Offtopic)
How dare you deny the GLORY of Global Warming as foretold by the holy prophets of Hockey Stick!
Global Warming means that heat is not necessary and this story is obvious heresy by the denialist infidels!
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You don't really get global warming, do you?
The Internet Of Hacked Things (Score:2)
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No, some day we'll figure out that it's not a good idea to subject critical infrastructure to internet control insecurely.
People have been doing this for as long as the internet has existed, it's all a question of competence.
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+1! (Where are my mods points when I really need them!???)
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Not true but true? Is that what you're trying to tell me? Or are you implying that leased lines are still easy to come by in the modern world and that we don't live in a world of common infrastructure?
I say this as someone who was forced to decommission a dedicated leased line in exchange for a modem with a public IP address by a major telecom company, so it's not a far out scenario.
Re: The Internet Of Hacked Things (Score:1)
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So that's kind of what I was saying when I mentioned insecurely and it's a question of competence.
And you replied with not true... I can't understand if you are agreeing with me or disagreeing with me.
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Right, so all industries should build out their own private network infrastructure. That shouldn't cost you too much, should it?
Could be worse (Score:1)
They could've turned off the heating at a polling location in the United States. Everyone would be blaming Putin even if he didn't do it.
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The solution is simple. For some reason the people responsible don't take action. Maybe we are waiting for the big one? Like an explosion in a nuclear electricity facility?
GET. ALL. CRITICAL. INFRASTRUCTURE. SYSTEMS. OFF. THE. INTERNET.
To play the devils advocate.. what is the alternative? Leased lines and private networks?
Do you think Telco you pick one of those up from isn't going to provision it using same (mostly virtualized) infrastructure and management systems they use for Internet traffic? Do you really think their systems are any more secure?
I strongly believe any and all attempts at securing the network is both dangerous and counterproductive. It is dangerous because it sucks resources from the only thing that matters... secu
IoT (Score:1)
With this global warming.. (Score:2)
I have had first-hand experience (Score:2)
I am an HVAC controls Technologist and the product we use used to have an unintentional DOS issue. If there was too much traffic on the controller's network port (including traffic not intended for it), the processor would spend all of its time responding to network interrupts and actual operation would grind to a halt. The fix was simple...the manufacturer made new firmware that would simply ignore network interrupts if the program scan rate got too low. Sure, the controller would quit communicating on the
If only they used an Amiga (Score:2)
I'm sure that school that has their heating system controlled by an Amiga won't have this problem :P
curso NR 10 (Score:1)