'DNC Hacker' Unmasked: He Really Works for Russia, Researchers Say (thedailybeast.com) 704
The hacker who claimed to compromise the DNC swore he was Romanian, but new investigation shows he worked directly for Russia President Vladimir Putin's government in Moscow. The Daily Beast reports: The hacker who claims to have stolen emails from the Democratic National Committee and provided them to WikiLeaks is actually an agent of the Russian government and part of an orchestrated attempt to influence U.S. media coverage surrounding the presidential election, a security research group concluded on Tuesday. The researchers, at Arlington, Va.-based ThreatConnect, traced the self-described Romanian hacker Guccifer 2.0 back to an Internet server in Russia and to a digital address that has been linked in the past to Russian online scams. Far from being a single, sophisticated hacker, Guccifer 2.0 is more likely a collection of people from the propaganda arm of the Russian government meant to deflect attention away from Moscow as the force behind the DNC hacks and leaks of emails, the researchers found. ThreatConnect is the first known group of experts to link the self-proclaimed hacker to a Russian operation, amidst an ongoing FBI investigation and a presidential campaign rocked by the release of DNC emails that have embarrassed senior party leaders and inflamed intraparty tensions turning the Democratic National Convention. The emails revealed that party insiders plotted ways to undermine Sen. Bernie Sanders' presidential bid. The researchers at the aforementioned security firm are basing their conclusion on three signals: the hacker used Russian computers to edit PDF files, he also used Russian VPN -- and other internet infrastructure from the country, and that he was unable to speak Romanian.
oh well (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:oh well (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:oh well (Score:5, Funny)
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We may have to build this wall to the South after all ...
(Saying that as a Canadian resident).
Re:oh well (Score:5, Insightful)
"What Difference Does It Make?!?!?!" (Score:5, Insightful)
It's what's IN THEM that is the story behind the curtain nobody wants you to see [thegatewaypundit.com]
Re:"What Difference Does It Make?!?!?!" (Score:5, Insightful)
Who cares who hacked them. This is just a deflection.
This is spot on.
I'm likely still going to vote for Hillary (as opposed to not voting) because the alternative is President Trump - but I really don't care who brought the emails to light, since it's obvious they're not phony.
On a side note - the Republicans had the most winnable presidential race in decades, handed to them on a silver platter. So they decided to nominate just about the most unelectable candidate imaginable. Unbelievable.
Re:"What Difference Does It Make?!?!?!" (Score:5, Insightful)
Voting for the lesser of two evils still means you;re voting for evil.
Seriously - it's like saying "Oh, I'm voting for Stalin because that Hitler guy is just nasty..."
Given the current state of dissatisfaction with the current duopoly, I'm amazed that folks aren't moving to 3rd parties more often these days. I mean, seriously, if there were ever a time when it could really make a difference...
But then, most people who claim to have an ideology are driven more by fear than by their own conscience these days...
Re:"What Difference Does It Make?!?!?!" (Score:4, Interesting)
A lot of people (not myself, I'm voting Stein) may have mainstream political views which are much better represented by the major parties than by any of the half dozen or so minor parties likely to be on their ballot, but still dislike the individual candidates of the major parties.
Re:"What Difference Does It Make?!?!?!" (Score:5, Insightful)
On an evil scale, hillary is somewhere north of the coyote. She's a wonk and a bureaucrat with a ton of government experience. The most likely negative outcome of her term is more of the same.
Trump is actually dangerous.
So sure.. voting for 36 vs 48 on the evil scale is still voting for evil.
But voting for 11 vs 48 on the evil scale is not the same thing.
Trump is a sociopath and a narcissist. He's an idiot too and Putin will own him repeatedly. Just having Trump as a candidate has weakened our standing with almost all of our allies which means harder to get treaties, harder to build coalitions, harder to oppose hostiles.
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Trump is a sociopath and a narcissist.
I think nearly all politicians fall into that category. Including (and esp) H.R.C. That's basically a no-op comment.
He's an idiot too and Putin will own him repeatedly.
Quite likely true, but apparently, Putin feels threatened by recent HRC actions and is likely to escalate tensions. I don't know which is worse: having an isolationist like Trump or a warmonger like HRC...
Perhaps we should take comfort in the fact that her wallstreet buddies not wanting the economy to crash might reign in those warmongering tendencies, but somehow a candidate being owned by
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I think nearly all politicians fall into that category. Including (and esp) H.R.C. That's basically a no-op comment.
Nope.
Olberman went through a nice exercise to apply a standard medical triage test for personality disorder. It's pretty long, but he plays it straight. This GOP candidate clearly falls outside the category of your normal political malfeasance.
http://www.vanityfair.com/news... [vanityfair.com]
Re: "What Difference Does It Make?!?!?!" (Score:4, Informative)
Trump's ghostwriter spent 18 months with him and thinks he's a sociopath.
http://www.newyorker.com/magaz... [newyorker.com]
Re:"What Difference Does It Make?!?!?!" (Score:4, Insightful)
Congress will be united against Trump stupidities. Republican establishment hates him. SoCons (Social Conservatives) hate and don't trust him (He's for Planned Parenthood, pro-choice). Small Government types are against him (he's for Eminent Domain seizures, pro-gun control) so he's not going to have a pass in Congress for anything.
The media will do it's duty in vetting and exposing things.
Now with Hillary - there will be no push-back from either the media or the Dem congress. Any objections, no matter how valid, will be described as the rantings of right-wing lunatics.
I am a #NeverTrump and a #NeverHillary. Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond.
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A vast amount of stupidity has been done to get him this far so I'd say you are being a bit overconfident that normal services will be resumed so easily.
So? If they have enough numbers (which is likely) those rantings will still block someone who respects the Republic, Democracy and the rule of law.
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We DID vote for Stalin... (Score:5, Informative)
Voting for the lesser of two evils still means you;re voting for evil.
Seriously - it's like saying "Oh, I'm voting for Stalin because that Hitler guy is just nasty...
You realize we sent Stalin a massive infusion of arms and armaments to help him keep fighting Hitler, and supported him despite his evil, right through V-E day? That we really preferred having Russian soldiers dying to having Americans dying, so we gave him all the help we could?
Yes, there was a strong feeling in certain circles that when the eastern front met the western front, the fighting would continue and we'd wind up in a war with the Russians. But still, we absolutely supported evil when it was fighting another evil.
Re:We DID vote for Stalin... (Score:4, Insightful)
You realize we sent Stalin a massive infusion of arms and armaments to help him keep fighting Hitler, and supported him despite his evil, right through V-E day? That we really preferred having Russian soldiers dying to having Americans dying, so we gave him all the help we could?
Yes, there was a strong feeling in certain circles that when the eastern front met the western front, the fighting would continue and we'd wind up in a war with the Russians. But still, we absolutely supported evil when it was fighting another evil.
I think it's generally considered good foreign politics two encourage two mortal enemies in their fight against each other.
But the US also sent a lot of aid to Britain when they were fighting the Nazis and they were certainly not enemies.
Defeat Hitler (Score:3)
Voting for the lesser of two evils still means you;re voting for evil.
My political opinions are so variant from the mainsteam that I've never had the privilege of voting for a candidate who represents the way I think or solve problems. Every election I've voted in has always been a case of choosing the least-worst candidate.
Frankly, the idea of not voting against the greater evil seems to be utterly brainless. Why would anybody knowingly let the greater evil win?
Seriously - it's like saying "Oh, I'm voting for Stalin because that Hitler guy is just nasty..."
First, you do know that the U.S. did ally with Stalin to defeat Hitler, right? Or does that piece of history jus
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Absent a system that includes a run-off election the reality is that a vote for a 3rd party candidate is a vote for the least preferred candidate. Unless the American system changes, voting for a third-party, particularly in the presidential election is the very definition of "totally f**king stupid." Protest votes give you exactly opposite of what you desire.
The only way to effect any kind of change in the American two-party system is to do precisely what Bernie Sanders did. He caused the democrats to a
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To be fair, the Republicans managed to toss the Democrats the most easily defeatable opponent ever in someone who is consistently offensive to nearly everyone including most of the party he is nominated for and the Democrats still couldn't actually field someone who could soundly beat him.
There was never a Democratic presidential nomination contest. Hillary's victory this week was decided on years ago. Maybe Bernie was the last to be told, but didn't you think it strange that the Dem contest was just Hillary vs. Bernie (plus the occasional third guy)?
The Republicans had over a dozen people vying for the spot, and say what you like about the man, but Trump got the votes, and the Republican establishment hated it. It was a real contest.
Re:"What Difference Does It Make?!?!?!" (Score:5, Insightful)
There is no such person that could 'soundly beat him' because most people just vote party line with little more concern than the D or R.
If only the Democrats had a candidate who could energize a young, large field of first-time voters in a way that no other Democrat can.
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On a side note - the Republicans had the most winnable presidential race in decades, handed to them on a silver platter. So they decided to nominate just about the most unelectable candidate imaginable. Unbelievable.;
My observation is that the two political parties have an agreement that they will pick candidates in the league, much like how boxing or wrestling have opponents from the same weight class. Thus if the Democrats were going to run Hillary, as the leaked emails clearly show that they were going to do no matter what it took, the Republicans had no choice but to run Trump.
Re:"What Difference Does It Make?!?!?!" (Score:4, Interesting)
On a side note - the Republicans had the most winnable presidential race in decades, handed to them on a silver platter. So they decided to nominate just about the most unelectable candidate imaginable. Unbelievable.
Yep, the Democrats parry by nominating a divisive, corrupt politician who is the #2 most disliked candidate in the history of presidential polling. The only person who is more disliked is her opponent. And then they go and find the most vanilla VP pick that no one outside of his state has ever heard of. They are intent on snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
It makes me wonder about all of their justifications. Now the convention is all about "we must defeat Trump!" If defeating Trump was so important to the Democratic party, then why the hell did they nominate the candidate who's untrusted and corrupt and is going to have a serious uphill battle to beat Trump? Why not just nominate the guy who consistently beat Trump in polls? I mean, if their stated goal is to defeat Trump, then why do anything else? Of course that's a trick question; their goal is not to defeat Trump and never has been, their only goal since the primaries started is to elect Hillary. It just so happens that the Republicans managed to nominate the only candidate who is actually more disliked than Hillary, so now the Democrats have a great boogeyman.
There's also the line about, "hey we've got the most progressive platform evar! Like 80% of Bernie's platform is there!" OK, if Bernie's platform is so great then why does Hillary get to be the president and not Bernie? If you really want those platform policies to be implemented and actually worked on, why not elect the guy who has been shouting about them for years? Why shove through a person who only adopted them because it was either adopt or die? Do you really think she's going to stick to that platform once she gets her foot in the door?
Regardless of all of that stuff though, I still can't vote for Hillary, and some people have a hard time understanding why. The major reason I supported Sanders wasn't because of his policy positions, it was because he legitimately wants to see an end to the political corruption caused by very large amounts of money in the political system. In my opinion, Hillary is a perfect example of that kind of corruption, the kind that I want removed from government. Since I see Bernie as the solution to the problem represented by Hillary, if I am not allowed to vote for the solution then I'm not just going to turn around and vote for the problem. I will not vote for the problem. I will cast my vote for a smaller party who will appreciate my vote far more than either Hillary or Trump will (just like I did in the previous election), and vote for someone else who at least is not part of the problem. And if the Democrats want to bitch and moan about that, and try to place any blame on me for them not getting enough votes to beat Trump, I'll be happy to remind them that there was a very easy way to ensure that they would have beaten Trump, but they decided to go with the corrupt one instead.
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It's odd that nobody in the press seems to be holding anyone's feet to the fire about the contents. Nobody's disavowed the contents. We got one useless resignation after her apparent goal was already apparently successful -- get Clinton nominated at all costs.
Re:"What Difference Does It Make?!?!?!" (Score:5, Insightful)
Not surprising. Dig into some of the emails and you will find discussions among DNC staffers about various articles they have received from journalists for approval before they are submitted to their editors! The media is complicit and circling the wagons around their own.
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If you are surprised by anything in these emails you haven't been paying attention. Politics in the US is a blood sport.
Nor should it be surprising to anyone that Putin wants Trump in power.
The only slightly surprising thing about this story is that the Russian secret service was sloppy enough to get caught.
Re:"What Difference Does It Make?!?!?!" (Score:5, Insightful)
Squirrel! (Score:3)
This is literally like shouting "Squirrel!"
The Dems have gone off their fucking nut.
So that makes it OK then (Score:4, Insightful)
Nothing to see here. These crimes were exposed by someone we don't like so much. That makes it OK.
Re:So that makes it OK then (Score:4, Insightful)
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Fraud.
Re:So that makes it OK then (Score:5, Interesting)
How so? Politicians lying is protected speech.
Re:A tax-exempt non-profit organization .... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:So that makes it OK then (Score:4, Informative)
No no, for it to be fraud, you need to have lied in performance of a contract. Like when a billionaire tycoon lies about the zoning of a building subjecting his buyers to unexpected taxes, exceptionally high mortgage rates, and half the expected resale value. That's fraud.
Re:So that makes it OK then (Score:5, Insightful)
What crimes would those be? Seriously, I'm curious. What crimes have been revealed by the DNC emails that were released? Staffers at the DNC didn't much like a number of members of Sanders's staff. Some of them preferred Clinton. Good policy? Maybe, maybe not, but not a crime by any definition of the term.
I haven't read the emails, but I don't believe they expose any crimes committed by the DNC; instead it shows that they did not want to play by their own rules when determining their candidate. It's dirty pool which may disenfranchise some Democrats.
Re:So that makes it OK then (Score:5, Informative)
I haven't read the emails, but I don't believe they expose any crimes committed by the DNC
Conspiring to violate 18 USC/599 is a federal crime. The rest is just typical liberal crap on display (hey! nobody's looking! let's use disparaging references to ethnic groups and make fun of a black woman's name!), but that's simply them displaying their hypocrisy. It's the whole caught-in-the-act of offering quid pro quo on promising government appointments to high profile supporters that actually breaks the law.
Re:So that makes it OK then (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:So that makes it OK then (Score:4, Informative)
The worst that I've seen so far is the bit about the DNC favoring Hillary over Bernie. Which has nothing to do with selling appointed positions.
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IN SOVIET RUSSIA...I..I just cant do it.... (Score:3, Informative)
Conspiring to violate 18 USC/599 is a federal crime.
Assuming that the e-mail is authentic. It might well be, but there should be some serious scrutiny of any evidence that has been 'dug up' by Russian intelligence running false flag ops to influence US elections. They might just be up to something....
Trump and Putin, what a pair they would make...I bet they would get on like Hitler and Mussolini...
Re:IN SOVIET RUSSIA...I..I just cant do it.... (Score:4, Insightful)
If that conspiracy theory were true, wouldn't you think the DNC would be screaming outright about them somehow being fake, instead of trying to hand-wave so much over them?
Stupid is as stupid reads on the Interneyt (Score:3)
It is possible that the DNC isn't saying anything on the advice of lawyers, or at the request of the FBI, CIA, NSA, military or other federal agencies, who are undoubtedly investigating the hell out of this. This was a cyber attack by a hostile foreign
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Why bother saying where the content is collected if it's fake? Wouldn't it be more effective to say they weren't authentic than agreeing they were real leaks and that the DNC is just not okay with the Russians leaking them?
Re:So that makes it OK then (Score:4)
So its no surprise they are hypocrites...
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
Fraud. Money laundering. Racketeering. Violations of campaign finance laws.
Re:So that makes it OK then (Score:5, Insightful)
What crimes would those be? Seriously, I'm curious.
Among other things, the emails show direct discussions surrounding the promising of high profile government positions to generous campaign supporters and contributors. A direct violation of 18 U.S.C./599. That's a crime.
Re:So that makes it OK then (Score:5, Informative)
http://dailycaller.com/2016/07... [dailycaller.com]
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And if the emails were in fact edited the DNC and Wasserman-Schultz wouldn't say anything in their own defense, would they?
See what's happening, though? FUD. Fear of Russia, uncertainty and doubt about the correctness of the emails. Don't focus on the content, it's doubtful and uncertain that they are accurate, anyway. Remember, Russia had a hand in this. We've been historic enemies over the past 2/3 of a century or so. Don't read the emails, just vote for Hillary anyway. Allegations of corruption ca
Re:So that makes it OK then (Score:5, Insightful)
What crimes would those be? Seriously, I'm curious. What crimes have been revealed by the DNC emails that were released?
Violations of campaign finance law: http://www.rollingstone.com/po... [rollingstone.com]
BZZZT! NOPE! Wanna try that one again? (Score:3)
http://www.npr.org/2015/12/23/... [npr.org]
All told, a single donor can give more than $700,000 for the election.
That's serious money, according to campaign finance lawyer Brett Kappel.
He said, "It also shows you where campaign finance law has gone. We're now back in the era of soft money."
"Soft money" was the term for unregulated contributions to the party committees in the 1980s and '90s.
The soft money system led to corruption cases in both major parties, and Congress barred party committees from raising it in 2002.
But eight years later, the Supreme Court gave unregulated money a new path with Citizens United and other court decisions.
In a 2014 ruling in the case McCutcheon v. FEC, the Supreme Court elevated the importance of joint fundraising committees between campaigns and parties, such as the Hillary Victory Fund.
Campaign finance law had previously set an overarching limit on how much one person could give to federal candidates and the major parties â" combined â" in one election cycle.
In McCutcheon, the Supreme Court said that limit was unconstitutional.
As in other rulings, the court said removing the limit didn't raise questions of corruption.
You don't like that? Well, you can hop on your time machine and go and shoot down people responsible - two Bushes and a Reagan.
They appointed the guys who made it legal. Obama and Clinton appointed judges were against it.
http://www.npr.org/sections/th... [npr.org]
The U.S. Supreme Court on Wednesday struck down an overall cap on the amount that large campaign donors can give to parties and candidates in a two-year election cycle.
Chief Justice John Roberts led the opinion and was joined by justices Antonin Scalia, Anthony Kennedy and Samuel Alito.
A separate but concurring opinion was written by Justice Clarence Thomas.
Justices Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Stephen Breyer, Sonia Sotomayor and Elena Kagan dissented.
Re:So that makes it OK then (Score:5, Informative)
What crimes would those be? Seriously, I'm curious. What crimes have been revealed by the DNC emails that were released? Staffers at the DNC didn't much like a number of members of Sanders's staff. Some of them preferred Clinton. Good policy? Maybe, maybe not, but not a crime by any definition of the term.
The crime exposed by the DNC emails is money laundering. In those, they discuss how to move money from very wealthy donors making big deposits through a DNC fund for "down ticket" candidates (like state and local races). Huge donors with money, adhering to campaign finance laws, make deposits into the Clinton campaign (HFA). But they want more money to go to her so they direct the majority of it into something called the Hillary Victory Fund which is operated by the DNC. From there it's split again between state level party operations and the DNC, also to avoid limits. However, it's not at the state party accounts long, in fact, it's often there so briefly that the state level treasurers managing don't even have time to see it hit the account before it's gone and it's "donated" back to the DNC, essentially having been 'washed' through the sate accounts. The DNC then used the money to support the Clinton campaign.
tl:dr - the DNC laundered money to circumvent campaign finance law and support Hillary.
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"circumventing" isn't the same as "violating". Are you alleging that they violated the law?
Russia, DNC, and NATO (Score:4, Interesting)
And I also said that they shouldn't be claiming their emails are hacked by Russians, after all we've been hearing about hacked emails for the past year. They may be telling the truth, but making the argument at all is bad optics.
But then I hear this from Trump yesterday, clarifying his previous statements on NATO, which makes the Russian involvement seem more suspicious:
NATO. They ask me about NATO. Right? You saw that the other day, Meet the Press.
"Well, I hear you want to give up NATO..." I don't want to give up NATO. I like... NATO's fine. But they gotta pay. They gotta pay.
So we have all of these countries, and they're not paying. They're not paying. And we're protecting them.
And the question is: "If such-and-such a country were attacked, are you willing to start World War 3?" Because that's essentially what's happening. They don't pay.
They say, "Well, we have a treaty!" So they have these articles: "Donald Trump wants to give up NATO." No no no. I don't want to give up anything. I want them to pay.
We're a country. It's not 40 years ago, 50 years ago. And now, most people in this audience don't even know, that we're protecting Japan, China, we're protecting Germany! Nothing but money.
We're protecting Saudi Arabia. If we weren't around, Saudi Arabia, Saudi Arabia wouldn't be around for two weeks. We protect Saudi Arabia. They don't pay us what that should be paying. We're losing everything. Folks, we lose on everything.
We protect South Korea. We have 28,000 soldiers on the line, against the maniac on the right. We have 28,000 soldiers against North Korea, separated. Pretty dangerous stuff, considering he's got a million-person army. Pretty dangerous stuff.
So we're doing all this, and yet they're paying us a fraction of what it is.
I saw it with Japan. And by the way, I think it's fine- but they've got to pay us. We don't have the money. They gotta pay us. And they will pay us if the right person asks. If the right person asks. They will. They will.
Do you have any idea the difference that makes for our country if we get countries to take care of us the way they should.
We had a general recently, because we've been doing this, and he said, "Mr. Trump doesn't understand that Japan is paying almost 50 percent of the cost of what we do for them." And I said, why not 100 percent? Why? Tell me why. Tell me why.
Folks, we're run by incompetent people and it's going to end. And it's going to end soon. Because people aren't taking it anymore.
Now, when I talk about we're going to protect Japan, which is great, now, you always have to be prepared to walk. And I said, in one of the articles, they said, "Now what would happen if they didn't pay." I said, âoeWe have to walk."
Hillary Clinton said, "He wants to walk from Japan!" Now, see, what she did, she makes it impossible to negotiate. She's not a negotiator. She's a fool. She's a fool. No, she's a fool.
Because when you tell Japan- very smart people, great people, I have many friends there- but when you say you're not prepared to walk, you'll never walk? So she said, "How dare he say that! We will never walk!"
Then they're never going to pay us. We may have to walk! Folks, we may have to walk.
But- the same thing with Germany. We're spending a fortune in Germany. Same thing with Saudi Arabia. Let me tell you. Saudi Arabia? So we'll say this: "Folks, you gotta pay us. You gotta pay us. Sorry."
They're gonna say no. Bye-bye! Within two days, they're calling back, "Get back over here, we'll pay you whatever the hell you want."
OK? One hundred percent.
But whe
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I rifled through the emails eagerly looking for stuff, but I was disappointed-
Colbert found the best one in a suggestion thread:
"Eat my butt"
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So what you are saying is that its completely acceptable for a party organization to become a secret arm of the election committee of a single candidate, divert funds from all other candidates to the anointed candidate, and promise that once that candidate is in office large donors will receive political appointment in a federal government position.
As long as the candidate who gets elected doesn't offer it themselves, its acceptable. Of course that candidate will make the appointment, but they didn't offer
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The Russians want Trump to be President. That bears repeating a couple of times. Just think about why that might be.
Devout Republican George Will[*] is saying that he thinks the reason Trump won't release his tax returns is because they would show how much he is in bed with the Russian oligarchy.
[*]Think what you will of Will, but he's got putdown-fu. After some recent fuss with Trump he said "He has the advantage on me - I can't say everything I know about a topic in 140 characters."
Russian VPN != "Works for Russia" (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm not sure the press is smart enough to understand that use of a Russian VPN means they're working for the Russian government...but I'd expect /. editors to understand at least the basics of, you know, connectivity.
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Reading shit headlines like that always brings home the fact that most reporters are almost completely ignorant about the subject matter at hand, and will generally spew whatever their "sources" tell them, even if the primary article says something completely different.
Re:Russian VPN != "Works for Russia" (Score:4, Informative)
Reading shit headlines like that always brings home the fact that most reporters are almost completely ignorant about the subject matter at hand, and will generally spew whatever their "sources" tell them, even if the primary article says something completely different.
Who did the hacking is irrelevant. It's just a distraction. Nobody (that we know of) made those DNC staffers and managers write what they wrote. The inner workings of both major US political parties as it relates to rewarding large donors, choosing party candidates, and dealing with "disruptive" candidates is very ugly. The emails show this. Looking out for the average person is clearly at the bottom of the list of their priorities. This could have easily happened to the RNC (if it hasn't already) and a similar pile of shit would likely be unearthed.
This shouldn't be a partisan issue. Those who make it partisan are just sweeping "their side's" problems under the rug and allowing the problem to continue. The way we pick presidential candidates is really, really, bad. The primary system gives too much power to those with strong and vocal opinions. The disapproval ratings for the DNC and RNC candidates are at record high levels and speak for themselves. At this point, a random lottery would be better than the current system. We do this dance every 4 years and it isn't getting better. By November, people will have forgotten all about the primaries and nothing will change.
Re:Russian VPN != "Works for Russia" (Score:5, Insightful)
Who did the hacking is irrelevant. It's just a distraction.
I only partly agree with this. If a foreign country is trying to affect our elections, that's something worth considering. Especially because if they'll do something minor like this they may do something major and less-easily-traced later.
The inner workings of both major US political parties as it relates to rewarding large donors, choosing party candidates, and dealing with "disruptive" candidates is very ugly. This could have easily happened to the RNC (if it hasn't already) and a similar pile of shit would likely be unearthed.
This is very true. The DNC was unhappy with Sanders, but never thought he had a chance of winning and didn't do much against him. Some talk, but no action.
The RNC, OTOH, has been in an existential fight with Trump for the past year. They probably had a LOT more talk and probably more action. (Totally ineffective action, true, but action nonetheless.)
I really don't know how primaries should work. As you say, primaries currently give too much power to those with strong and vocal opinions. Caucuses are even worse. Open primaries let people outside the party have a say, which may or may not be a good idea. The old method of "smoke filled backroom deals" doesn't seem an improvement.
The disapproval ratings for the DNC and RNC candidates are at record high levels and speak for themselves
That's a red herring. The DNC candidate has been under near-constant "investigations" (which have produced close to zero evidence or crimes) for more than two decades and has little charisma; that's gonna cause disapproval from those who like investigations but dislike evidence. The RNC candidates have insulted just about every cultural, ethnic, and gender-based group in the country. It's a perfect storm, but neither one seems tied to the parties.
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I would counter that the DNC candidate has had investigation that have produced mountains of evidence, but despite this no charges have been brought to bring her to trial. Your "little charisma" could also be interpreted as an ego and nonchalant attitude about lying to the public. You can make any argument you want about whether or not Hillary is a criminal, but there is no way to argue she hasn't blatantly lied to the American public at every stage of every investigation and has the arrogance to ask invest
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That's a red herring. The DNC candidate has been under near-constant "investigations" (which have produced close to zero evidence or crimes) for more than two decades and has little charisma; that's gonna cause disapproval from those who like investigations but dislike evidence. The RNC candidates have insulted just about every cultural, ethnic, and gender-based group in the country. It's a perfect storm, but neither one seems tied to the parties.
Okay I have to burn mod points to disagree with this statement. The FBI director just said a few weeks ago that Hillary Clinton broke the law. Then, with his own mouth, added words that don't exist to the applicable Civil Code claiming that Hillary did not show intent. There was no intent required. She volunteered to be given trust, was briefed on that trust countless times (you're required to be briefed at least once a year by the FBI or DIA), and just said "I'm too important for these silly rules."
Re: (Score:3)
So people within our borders actively manipulating the elections is fine, but someone outside of our elections proving the fraud most of us suspected is bad. Got it.
People are more likely to take you seriously if you don't construct straw men.
Citizens are generally allowed to "actively manipulate elections". One form is called "voting", another is called "free speech". There is evidence that the DNC did not want Sanders to win, but unless you found something that everyone else missed, there is no evidence that they DID anything. Unless you are calling for Thought Crime?
On the other hand, there are few ways that foreign powers are legally allowed to influence electio
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
So, Hillary is GUILTY of what? Killing Vince Foster? Parachuting into Benghazi and slaughtering dozens of Americans?
Hillary's involvement is Benghazi is what disqualifies her for me.
We first learn that there was an attack on the embassy and people, including the Ambassador, were killed.
The we learn that this was a spontaneous riot due to anti-Islam movie made in the US.
What does Hillary do? Does she defend free speech? No.
Is this considered to be a teachable moment? Where we explain to the Muslim world that Freedom of Speech (which is the expression of Freedom of Thought) is to be respected and honored even
Re:Logic (Score:4, Informative)
Hillary's involvement is Benghazi is what disqualifies her for me.
[ Cutting a anti-H rant which disagrees with the events in every official Benghazi investigation ]
We can agree on a few things:
* There have been about 8 Benghazi investigations.
* The first few focused on finding Obama at fault. After the 2014 election, they quickly pivoted to finding Hillary at fault.
* Most, maybe all of them were controlled by Republicans
* Republicans have very strong incentives to find Obama and Hillary at fault
* Republicans are supported by a number of generous billionaires, who also have very strong incentives to find Obama and Hillary at fault.
* Every investigation has returned largely the same results:
* Hillary and Obama did not give complete information at first (while conflicting information was coming in), but neither one lied. They gave the facts as they were known at the time.
* Neither Hillary nor Obama could have done anything during the attack which could have changed the outcome or had any effect.
* Neither Hillary nor Obama did anything (or failed to do anything) before the attack which directly led to or caused or enabled the attacks.
* Some lower level people at State made some decisions which were (in 20/20 hindsight) poor, but were not malicious.
* Some of the people involved in the investigations have not disagreed with the facts in the official reports, but have nonetheless claimed without explicit basis that Hillary and/or Obama lied and caused it and were otherwise EVIL. Again, without facts or clear explanations.
Now here is where we disagree.
You seem to believe that all of the investigations were wrong for some unexplained reason, and all wrong in the exact same way, and nobody involved has clearly explained how they were wrong, but you know more than all of the investigators and can prove that your version is correct.
I believe that you cannot deal with what you WANT to be true disagreeing with reality, so you are making shit up and ignoring facts while truly believing every word you say, You are not lying. You are also not correct.
Sometimes real life is better than the movies! (Score:2, Insightful)
Yea Sure (Score:5, Insightful)
From the same people who said...
"No classified email on my server"
"No material on my email that was classified at the time"
"No material marked classified on my server"
"I handed over all work related emails"
"The DNC did not collude to keep Sanders from winning"
"The DNC doesn't work with news media to plant stories against Sanders"
If they ever got caught telling the truth once, this might be believable. Who hacked the DNC server doesn't matter, what matters is how corrupt the DNC is from the content of the emails. They did their best to disenfranchise their base. Your vote doesn't mean anything to them, only their power and they are willing to lie, cheat and steal to keep that power and extend it over you.
What a joke the DNC is. How long till Debbie Waserman Schultz gets another high paid job thanks to Clinton? Oops, already happened, so corrupt she had to be fired from the DNC but is still truthful enough to work for Clinton.
Re:Yea Sure (Score:5, Insightful)
So you're saying that somehow the DNC generated 3.7 million more votes for Clinton than Sanders?
How, exactly?
Re:Yea Sure (Score:5, Insightful)
So you're saying that somehow the DNC generated 3.7 million more votes for Clinton than Sanders?
We often discuss voting machines here. We don't like them.
Smoking gun? [blackboxvoting.org]
Re: (Score:3)
So you're saying that somehow the DNC generated 3.7 million more votes for Clinton than Sanders?
How, exactly?
I have some distant cousins who are huge Sanders supporters, so I can comment on this. Basically the really hardcore supporters are claiming that votes for Sanders were either not counted at all or given to Clinton instead. Depends on who is telling this conspiracy theory which one they go with. And yes, they do truly believe that they had the votes to win every state (or almost every state) and the DNC was conspiring against them to steal the primary for Hillary. And this was all what they were saying
Jesus H. Christ (Score:3, Insightful)
Is this some pathetic attempt at political spin or misdirection?
1. "At this point, what difference does it make" who he was working for? Are the emails themselves not blatant enough for anyone?
2. What kind of half-assed chicken-shit "Security researchers" draw a connection between Putin's government and a Russian based malware serving IP address? I won't for a second deny that Russia and Putin's goverenment work extensively in hacking the wold. But, there are literally thousands of malware servers in Russia that Putin's government knows nothing about.
Why does this matter? (Score:5, Insightful)
The real issue is the fact that DNC tried to stop Bernie with a few underhanded tactics.
The DNC is now trying to redirect the focus everyone to say the Russians did this rather than asking why Bernie didn't get a fair shot or why Hilary was basically given a free pass. I am more worried about why these emails were written in the first place and why the people at the DNC were stupid enough to think their email server couldn't be hacked.
Re:Why does this matter? (Score:5, Insightful)
And the OTHER real issue is that we have as close to proof that makes no difference that Russia, a country who's leader is trying his best to restore the glory days of the cold war, is actively screwing with our general election.
Sure the DNC should be impartial but to suggest we ignore Russia's attempt to influence our democratic process (however flawed it may be) is asinine, especially given they seem to have chosen a side. There two big problems here and both should be addressed!
Re:Why does this matter? (Score:5, Insightful)
If you put a secret microphone near the watercooler of any American company and release raw audio and transcript of all the talk, you would find lot more sleazy things than what you find in the DNC email dump.
In other news: ThreatConnect linked to DNC... (Score:2)
Well not really, but would it surprise anyone at this point?
Granted the mainstream media won't cover it of course...so it'll go largely unnoticed. Just like the title 'worked directly for russian president' ... 's government. Well all that says is he isn't an independent contractor...BFD. Tons of people (hackers included) work for the various first world governments.
You could also say that the soldiers who "worked directly for Obama" ... 's government. Yawn.
The Russian one, right? (Score:2)
directly for Russia President Vladimir Putin's government in Moscow.
That's a convoluted way of saying "for Russia."
Unless... plot twist! It was in Moscow, Iowa!
If you can't attack the message... (Score:5, Insightful)
....attack the messenger.
Isn't that pretty much Lawyer Response 101?
Dovetails nicely with the purported "vast Right Wing conspiracy", doesn't it?
If a hacker reveals illegal conduct, is it "less illegal" if the hacker is Russian?
I haven't noticed anyone asserting the emails are not genuine.
And still people won't vote for Gary Johnson (Score:5, Insightful)
One party nominated a racist. The other party nominated a serial liar. And still, I bet the Libertarian and Green parties won't get 5% of the vote. I suspect that Hillary and Trump could beat American children in public while shouting "America sucks" and we still wouldn't get a third-party into office.
My favorite is the guy attending the RNC, wearing the "STOP TRUMP" t-shirt, who said he would vote for Trump. **NUCLEAR FACEPALM**
Re: (Score:3)
"The other party nominated a serial liar."
In an analysis of the top 20 national politicians, scores from nonpartisan PolitiFact indicate that Hillary Clinton is actual the most truthful candidate of all, excepting only Barack Obama. On the other hand, Donald Trump is the single-most lying candidate of the past year.
http://www.mormonpress.com/lying_liars_who_lie_2016_edition [mormonpress.com]
Quite possibly bullshit (Score:5, Insightful)
To my knowledge, ThreatConnect was paid by the DNC to do this investigation, and the company that owns the news source used as a reference here (The Daily Beast is owned by IAC) has Chelsea Clinton on their board of directors.
I would not draw any conclusions until this is independently confirmed.
In Russia (Score:3)
Do they blame all of their cyber-problems on " Those American Hackers " ?
Or is it just this country where we blame whatever the problem of the week is on whatever country has a higher "Evil Quotient" at the time ?
( Usually Russia, China or Iran if you've noticed the trend )
Did Trump get Russians to give Clinton millions? (Score:3, Interesting)
I don't remember this much controversy when the Russians were giving millions to the Clinton Foundation [nytimes.com] to award them with a giant uranium deal. Don't shoot the messenger on this one. She is what she is.
America (Score:3)
Re: (Score:3)
Each party has a Primary election to select its Presidential candidate. Primaries aren't official elections, they're internal party elections, and each party has a State committee that runs the primary in that State - The Illinois State Democratic Committee runs the Democrat primary in Illinois, same for Texas and so forth. Internal party
Re:doesn't matter (Score:4, Interesting)
The Republicans are so inept, that they had nothing to do with this! This is all on the DNC and DWS and the entire Clintonista Crime Family. They own this, full and completely. The DNC is proven to be just as homophobic (no HOMO), racist (Taco Bowl) and Sexist ("bimbo" comment). I mean, if this was the GOP doing these things it would be front page of the NYT, but since the DNC has also been found colluding with the media to control the narrative ... several times ... this is just what everyone already knew, we just have a shit ton of smoking guns now.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I find the DNC to be much more racist. If you actually listen to what they say about blacks and minorities, it is as if they are COMPLETELY incapable of doing anything normal because of some pigment condition.
"voter ID, disenfranchises Blacks" How exactly does pigment affect getting ID? The same ID that is required to hold a job, get liquor, buy a gun, Open a bank account ....
"Removing a slate vote (single box ballot) disenfranchises Black people" Are blacks somehow unable to select each candidate individua
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Please provide examples of this buddy-buddy relationship you're describing, which appears to be exactly the opposite of reality.
Drumpf has praised Putin many times on the campaign trail. This has made the news numerous times. If you don't watch the news and don't know how to use a search engine I don't see how I can help you.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3)
There is video of Donald Trump Jr saying just a year or two ago that the bulk of the Trump corporation profits now come from Russia.
I've been wondering if they affixed Reagan to some magnets by now because the Republican party backing a candidate that supports and admires (by his own words) a former KGB officer who's been running practice bombing runs on the US mainland for the last couple years along with threatening to abandon the NATO alliance and leave Europe in a lurch has got to have Reagan doing abou
Re:Who cares..?? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Who cares..?? (Score:4, Insightful)
Vote for divided govt so Trump can't get anything done. A blocked Trump is better than President Hillary.
Re:Who cares..?? (Score:4, Interesting)
Yes, why vote against Hillary or Trump when you can vote against BOTH HILLARY AND TRUMP!
Vote third party, ANY third party. If you really want to stick it to them, vote for the most likely 3rd party Gary Johnson because if he wins even a few electoral votes, it could prevent either candidate from securing the election and the House of Representatives will have to make the call. You can't just not vote or write in, because those don't get counted and thus might as well be a vote for the status quo.
Re: (Score:3)
"I supported Bernie Sanders but now I'm going to ignore everything he said."
Re:Who cares..?? (Score:5, Insightful)
No conspiracy necessary. His campaign is over, he didn't get the nomination, now he's recommending that his supporters make the best of a bad situation and elect a ho-hum stay-the-course centrist, the only candidate who can realistically win enough votes to keep a bigoted, inept and childish protofascist from winning the presidency.
If you have to step in a dog turd to dodge a bullet, you do it. It's the smart and sensible choice.
Re: (Score:3)
It may be sensible if you live in a swing state, but it's completely nonsensical if you live in a solid blue or solid red state. Your vote for Clinton/Trump does nothing, your vote for a third party actually influences the major parties much more.
Re: (Score:3)
The way the system is designed in the US it strongly favours a bi-party state.
At this point it's actually self-perpetuating. The Democratic and Republican parties created the Commission on Presidential Debates, and the billionaire Perot has been the only non-member of the two parties to appear in a prime-time televised debate. The Ds and Rs enforce their agenda by blacklisting any media outlet that shows a debate featuring a candidate from any other party, and the parties have enough contacts in the media which they are in bed with that threats of political boycotts of those media
Re: (Score:3)
For future reference, you look like less of a troll if you use fewer *****STARS*****.
Re: (Score:3)
I have no idea how these talking points about DT necessarily appointing ultra conservative justices makes any sense.
Although it is highly unlikely to know what DT's position is on anything (he flip-flops all the time and talks off the cuff), his history of political donations doesn't indicate any ultra-conservative streak.
Not saying DT is the best candidate for the job, but these specific irrational fear-mongering talking points aren't really making a good case to vote against him. DT is definitely not Ted