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Businesses IT

Fury and Fear In Ohio As IT Jobs Go To India (computerworld.com) 607

ErichTheRed writes: A company called Cengage Learning now joins the Toys 'R Us, Disney and Southern California Edison IT offshoring club. Apparently, even IT workers in low-cost parts of the country are too expensive and their work is being sent to Cognizant, one of the largest H-1B visa users. As a final insult, the article describes a pretty humiliating termination process was used. Is it time to think about a professional organization before IT goes the way of manufacturing?
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Fury and Fear In Ohio As IT Jobs Go To India

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  • by drakaan ( 688386 ) on Monday November 09, 2015 @11:11PM (#50898291) Homepage Journal
    If by that, you mean "union", then I doubt it. You'd never get enough support from the folks that are still getting paid very well (like me, who lives in Ohio), and aren't being outsourced. There's no business case to do that for anything but level 0 and 1 helpdesk jobs, and not even all of those.
    • by Frosty Piss ( 770223 ) * on Monday November 09, 2015 @11:24PM (#50898361)

      If by that, you mean "union", then I doubt it. You'd never get enough support from the folks that are still getting paid very well (like me, who lives in Ohio), and aren't being outsourced. There's no business case to do that for anything but level 0 and 1 helpdesk jobs, and not even all of those.

      You too will soon be "outsourced" and regret your opinion. I'll smile at you as I walk into Wal-Mart.

      After being laid off from the best job in the world as a DBA that paid more than I had even made, I took a much lower paying job with the Air Force, and am now a "career civil servant". Sure, I'm not making the "big money" anymore, but I have a much better health plan then you will ever have, and my job will never go away.

      Have fun at Wal-Mart.

    • by DigiShaman ( 671371 ) on Monday November 09, 2015 @11:31PM (#50898405) Homepage

      WTF are you talking about?! Tier 3 and 4 (specialized) jobs are being outsourced to India too. If it's cloud computing, there is ZERO incentive to pay US wage levels when the staff is effectively performing remotely anyways. Anything from networking, Windows/*nix administration, to running the entire enterprise VMWare stack; all of it going overseas. About the only thing that remains is executive staff and grunts that rack-n-stack equipment in a data center.

      • by lgw ( 121541 )

        Much like manufacturing: the offshoring is a temporary measure while automation replaces human workers. Meanwhile, the companies that provide the clouds are paying top dollar for US talent. Food for thought.

        • Except there is next-to-no automation in the outsourced manufacturing. Why automate when depressed, third-world wages are cheaper?

          • by lgw ( 121541 ) on Tuesday November 10, 2015 @12:45AM (#50898663) Journal

            The automation is in the US factories. US manufacturing output has never fallen, decade-over-decade. US factories have become more and more automated first as jobs went overseas, and now China is seeing declines in outsourced-from-US jobs, as the robots are taking over and manufacturing increasingly returns to the US, job-free. The outsourcing of manufacturing jobs from the US was a temporary measure, slowly dwindling.

            IT is at the front of this curve (unless you're a software dev, but I don't think of that as "IT"). The writing has been on the wall for years, and the destination is inevitable. Plan accordingly.

            This is what technology is: efficiency. This has been happening for over 300 years, it's not going to stop now.

            • by dbIII ( 701233 ) on Tuesday November 10, 2015 @04:23AM (#50899193)
              Except for in steel, which is an interesting case study of how having a protected industry may help in the very short term but really fucks you up in the long run. What remains of the US steel industry is almost of interest to archeologists - steel produced at huge cost while the rest of the world has pushed on with automation resulting in both lower costs and higher quality. With no incentive to spend the capital on automation (protected market) the result was stagnation.
              Ironically some manufacturing moved offshore to get cheap steel.
          • Shipping costs and more control drive automation in US manufacturing.

            We need to look at cutting full time to 32 hours a week to start with a slow slide down to say 20 from that. Just to make automation fit in better while softening the blow of people going on welfare / disability. Also need some kind of basic income system to replace disability / welfare / etc.

            Now there is some abuse of disability / welfare but some times the system penalizes work in a way that people are better off not working. Or in other

      • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 10, 2015 @02:37AM (#50898939)

        > If it's cloud computing, there is ZERO incentive to pay US wage levels when the staff is effectively performing remotely anyways.

        if you believe this then i have a bridge to sell you :)

        i've worked for countless companies over the years that have tried to outsource to India (and China, and the Philippines, etc.) and every single one of those projects was a disaster. the majority of those programmers are nothing but bad code monkeys who write terrible code and even worse documentation. the ones worth hiring are getting top dollar themselves. then you get to try to coordinate a project with people on the other side of the planet and who are 12 hours off from your work day. if you want to make it work you need to send some of your people over there to actually lead the team- and even then the results are rarely worth the trouble. the main problem- at least to India and China- is that they're often taught through rote memorization. if a problem comes up that requires a novel solution, or if you are trying to troubleshoot an obscure issue- they lack the skills to solve the problem.

        you'll get much better (higher quality and far more creative) work when you outsource to places like Poland and Ukraine- but then you often run into language barriers.

        for every company that outsources- there are 10 new startups looking to hire people.

        people have been sounding the death knell for IT workers in the US for the last 20+ years. if you think it's going to happen any time soon- well- let's just say I'm not going to hold my breath :)

    • by sjames ( 1099 )

      More like the AMA or the Bar Association.

    • by sociocapitalist ( 2471722 ) on Tuesday November 10, 2015 @06:36AM (#50899483)

      If by that, you mean "union", then I doubt it. You'd never get enough support from the folks that are still getting paid very well (like me, who lives in Ohio), and aren't being outsourced. There's no business case to do that for anything but level 0 and 1 helpdesk jobs, and not even all of those.

      Read TFA:
      "Cengage...had outsourced accounting services earlier in the year"
      "The layoffs affected workers across IT, including networks, desktop support, database administration, developers, data warehouse and other systems."

      Also have a look at this, which lists the 33 jobs most likely to be outsourced...noting that many of them pay quite well indeed. Or did. They probably don't anymore.
      http://cdn.theatlantic.com/sta... [theatlantic.com]

      To put it all in context, you may want to consider the quantity of jobs being outsourced - which is in the millions:
      http://www.statisticbrain.com/... [statisticbrain.com]

  • by Nutria ( 679911 ) on Monday November 09, 2015 @11:13PM (#50898301)

    any more successful than unions at "saving American jobs"?

    • by NicBenjamin ( 2124018 ) on Tuesday November 10, 2015 @12:32AM (#50898637)

      Ever looked at international Doctor Salaries? Or lawyer salaries?

      Part of the reason those are through the roof is that they have very good lobbying arms. The people who actually run the country (unlike the Dems claim, it isn't the 1%, it's more like the top 20-25% who make $100k. The basis of their power is they always vote, even in odd-year-Mayoral elections, the cheating bastards) distrust unions, so actual unions are quite restricted. But Doctors and lawyers are key components of the hundredthousandocracy, can quite clearly and cogently defend their interests, and arrange it so that even proposals designed largely to screw them (ie: anything that reduces health costs, any form of Tort Reform) don't do that shit.

      There are 4 millionish [pewresearch.org] IT Workers in the US. If a few hundred thousand organized themselves into an association, hired lobbyists in every state and in DC (or, more likely, hired some of their members to lobby), they would be quite powerful. They aren't a union, so the GOP won't go into crazy-kill-death mode. Unlike Zuckerberg or San Fran tech entrepreneurs, they look and act like the suburban white-collar types who dominate the country. They say "we want these contracts investigated because we think that the rules weren't followed," and no politician has the stones to get in the fucking way.

      • No no no (Score:5, Insightful)

        by s.petry ( 762400 ) on Tuesday November 10, 2015 @01:39AM (#50898795)

        Doctor and Lawyer salaries are through the roof because those are two of very few jobs that can not be outsourced to a third world country. If Blue Cross could ship you to Haiti for a 40c an hour doctor you don't think they would?

        Welcome to the "Global Economy". You have heard all about it I'm sure, and how great it is. A real Utopia where everyone benefits. Assuming of course you are already extremely wealthy, because the rest of the people are expendable. As long as a company can stay afloat using dirt cheap labor, they will. Zuckerberg won the lottery, nothing more. That is your shot to getting out of the cesspool we are creating by complacently watching the government be run by the same people profiteering.

        History is cyclical, we have seen this all before. The same result will come eventually, because people never learn to learn from history.

        • Re:No no no (Score:5, Interesting)

          by silentbozo ( 542534 ) on Tuesday November 10, 2015 @02:40AM (#50898947) Journal
          The outsourcing is already in progress. Look up the term "nighthawk radiologist".

          http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org... [hopkinsmedicine.org]

          That was in 2004. As digitization has spread through healthcare, the practice has only gotten more prevalent.

          If you can pipe the data to somewhere else and get someone accredited to sign off on your work so they are the professional of record, you can outsource anything to anyone anywhere. Use a nurse practitioner for in-office visits, outsource case review to a medical professional somewhere else.

          Same deal for lawyers. For contracts, research, etc. you can outsource to paralegals. For discovery, have someone else scan, index, and cross correlate everything before you turn it over to the junior partners, but bill at the senior rate.

          BTW there are a lot of unemployed/underemployed lawyers...
        • Re:No no no (Score:5, Insightful)

          by Hadlock ( 143607 ) on Tuesday November 10, 2015 @04:57AM (#50899261) Homepage Journal

          Have you EVER shopped for doctors based on price? Did you even know that was a thing? Docs just seem to set a price based on whatever, and you and your insurance company figure it out from there.
           
          General practitioners/family doctors could be in every strip mall for in and out service, yet they're not. Anything outside of routine service would go to a specialist which you would pay closer to current market rate for, but the AMA has closely limited the number of doctors in America. I looked at getting a medical degree to go work in third world countries, but they've raised the barrier of entry by charging about half a million dollars in tuition, plus 6-7 years worth of apprenticeship to enter the field. Plus entry tests, etc. The tuition and time alone makes me look elsewhere for a profession.
           
          If you brought down the standard for med school training for general practitioners, you could easily outsource about 60% of general doctor health care. In fact, to meet this gap they have a Physician's Assistant (PA) who is effectively a doctor with a much shorter training schedule at about 90% pay level.

        • Re:No no no (Score:4, Interesting)

          by sociocapitalist ( 2471722 ) on Tuesday November 10, 2015 @06:44AM (#50899501)

          Doctor and Lawyer salaries are through the roof because those are two of very few jobs that can not be outsourced to a third world country. If Blue Cross could ship you to Haiti for a 40c an hour doctor you don't think they would?

          Welcome to the "Global Economy". You have heard all about it I'm sure, and how great it is. A real Utopia where everyone benefits. Assuming of course you are already extremely wealthy, because the rest of the people are expendable. As long as a company can stay afloat using dirt cheap labor, they will. Zuckerberg won the lottery, nothing more. That is your shot to getting out of the cesspool we are creating by complacently watching the government be run by the same people profiteering.

          History is cyclical, we have seen this all before. The same result will come eventually, because people never learn to learn from history.

          Doctors are being outsourced:
          http://www.nbcnews.com/id/6621... [nbcnews.com]
          http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/1... [nejm.org]

          Lawyers are being outsourced:
          http://www.americanbar.org/pub... [americanbar.org]
          http://www.economist.com/node/... [economist.com]

          Doctor and lawyer salaries are not high because they can't be outsourced (they can), but because of the fucked up healthcare and legal systems in America.

    • by Required Snark ( 1702878 ) on Tuesday November 10, 2015 @01:48AM (#50898819)
      Unions have been unable to oppose outsourcing because the Republicans have destroyed union power over the last 50 years or so. So called "right to work" legislation and other forms of legal (and illegal) union busting resulted in lower union membership, which means lower amounts of political donations and smaller voting blocks. The end game on this is Citizens United which means that the American oligarchy can spend as much dark money as they want to buy as much political power as they can get. Money doesn't always buy elections or politicians, but if one side outspends their opponents by large enough amounts for a long enough period of time they can change the rules of the game. Which they did.

      Here is a example from blue collar middle America. In the Midwest food processing, such as meat packing, used to be unionized. The unions were pretty much wiped out by the Republicans. Who got those jobs? Undocumented workers, mostly Spanish speakers. It's not like citizens went from being union workers to non-union workers. Citizens were replaced by non-citizens because they were less expensive to start out with, and undocumented workers will never complain about illegal treatment or dangerous working conditions. That's why there are so may relatively new Spanish speaking communities in places like Kansas, Ohio, Oklahoma, Nebraska, etc. And it's also why Trump is able to scream about "illegals" and get so much traction. The real perpetrators are the Republicans and massive corrupt big business interests.

      If you haven't lost your job yet it's just because they haven't gotten around to you yet.

      • by TheSync ( 5291 )

        The end game on this is Citizens United which means that the American oligarchy can spend as much dark money as they want to buy as much political power as they can get.

        Citizens United applies equally to unions being free to spend on political advertising as it does to corporations.

        If you haven't lost your job yet it's just because they haven't gotten around to you yet.

        I don't believe it is "my job" to lose, I believe I have to earn it against all competition.

      • First, the unions killed themselves. They became rich and powerful while solving the problems they were created to solve, and then the bosses decided they wanted to stay rich and powerful, so they couldn't fade away when their work was done. They abandoned fighting for their workers in favor of fighting for mandatory dues. Populist organizations, like unions, must support the people that support the organization. When they stop, they weaken. If they also turn evil...

        Second, the immigration mess is a ce

  • No (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Arkham ( 10779 ) on Monday November 09, 2015 @11:13PM (#50898303)

    If a "professional organization" means some sort of stupid union, then no. Unions did not prevent outsourcing of US jobs, and cannot. The reality is, if you want substandard work on the cheap, you're always going to get that in India. As my boss says of our products, "(software) products without revenue are built in India, products that make money are built in the US".

    We do all the design work in the US, because our 250+ Indian counterparts cannot design anything correctly. They code by trial and error. You'll never have a best-in-class product that way. We just give them menial coding tasks, and even then 1 US engineer is as productive as 3 in India.

    • We do all the design work in the US, because our 250+ Indian counterparts cannot design anything correctly. They code by trial and error. You'll never have a best-in-class product that way. We just give them menial coding tasks, and even then 1 US engineer is as productive as 3 in India.

      What does that single US worker cost, how does that compare to the cost of hiring three Indians, and how profitable is outsourcing in the mid-to-long term? These are the factors that will determine whether this situation will continue to get worse.

      • What does that single US worker cost, how does that compare to the cost of hiring three Indians, and how profitable is outsourcing in the mid-to-long term? These are the factors that will determine whether this situation will continue to get worse.

        I'm sorry, "mid-to-long term"? What does that have to do with the next round of bonuses for the folks making the outsourcing decisions?

    • Professional associations certainly do protect jobs. Unless you're a member of the right association, you can't be a civil engineer, doctor, lawyer, plumber, electrician, etc. Companies aren't going to import workers and then support them for a year or two while they can't practice their profession.
      • Re:No (Score:5, Insightful)

        by lgw ( 121541 ) on Tuesday November 10, 2015 @12:20AM (#50898595) Journal

        That's funny, I know people who have changed countries to continue working as a doctor, a lawyer, and a civil engineer (with some retraining on local law in each case).

        What makes those jobs different is important: by their nature, you can't do them remotely. A lot of the medical industry has moved off shore, but not the part that requires direct patient interaction. Working in the trades is a great way to never be offshored, and unions have nothing to do with it: no one's going to sit in India and wire your house, or fix a busted sewer pipe. There's significant immigration into all those jobs, but it's absorbed naturally.

        America and immigration go together, get used to it. The problem with the H1-B system is its awkward, non-tenure-track nature. Have an B1-B automatically become a green card in 2 years, and the wage problem will be solved.

    • Re:No (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Boronx ( 228853 ) <evonreis@noSpam.mohr-engineering.com> on Monday November 09, 2015 @11:30PM (#50898399) Homepage Journal

      Unions have been successfully neutered by the corporate party (all Republicans and half the Democrats). If they still had power, yes they could stop outsourcing.

      The quality of programming coming out of India is improving rapidly.

      "(software) products without revenue are built in India, products that make money are built in the US".

      40 years ago, you could say "You can go to Japan to buy a hunk of junk, but quality cars are built in the US." and you'd be right!

  • by Anonymous Coward

    Our politicians don't care about the American worker. Our corporations and their willing yes-men lackeys don't care about the American worker.

    But the American worker cares about the American worker, and together our shared interests can at least give us a "bargaining stick." Of course we need to be ready to swing the stick if need be to show that it's a real stick and all.

    • And when the American company of empowered workers goes to compete with foreign company offering the same services for 1/3 the cost what "bargaining stick" will the American company have to win that business?
  • TFA Link? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by nullchar ( 446050 ) on Monday November 09, 2015 @11:17PM (#50898325)

    Holy tracking link Batman! Try this one [computerworld.com] instead:
    http://www.computerworld.com/article/3002681/it-outsourcing/fury-and-fear-in-ohio-as-it-jobs-go-to-india.html

  • When the career path people are looking at the choice between McDonald's or Wendy's, there is going to be an American version of a brain drain.
  • And here we go...the Race To The Bottom for American jobs. Yippee, thanks Corporate America!

    I recommend learning a skill or trade that can't be outsourced. Something that's hands-on, or something that most foreign workers simply can't do very well. (Tech writing and actual physical service work come to mind, but I'm sure there are others.)

    This trend won't stop until outsourced workers cost enough to make it economical to hire US workers, but I don't see that happening anytime soon.

    • Or until "incentives" are applied to the corporations that are doing the off shoring ...

    • by AHuxley ( 892839 )
      Re "I recommend learning a skill or trade that can't be outsourced."
      Many try for a security clearance. Contractors, lawyers can often be "the no bid US company" with a long global supply chain of just in time products sold to the US gov or mil.
      The paper work is perfect, the products 100% made, owned and security cleared in the USA. Just the actual US workers jobs are all gone.
      Re "This trend won't stop until outsourced workers cost enough to make it economical to hire US workers, but I don't see that h
  • The Invisible Hand (Score:4, Insightful)

    by EzInKy ( 115248 ) on Monday November 09, 2015 @11:26PM (#50898377)

    Free markets work by encouraging competition. It makes no sense for companies to pay exuberant salaries to U.S. workers when similar results can be had for far less by outsourcing to countries whose citizens expect a standard of living far more meager than Americans. The Prophets promise to trickle upon those who worship at their alters.

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Free markets work by encouraging competition. It makes no sense for companies to pay exuberant salaries to U.S. workers when similar results can be had for far less by outsourcing to countries whose citizens expect a standard of living far more meager than Americans. The Prophets promise to trickle upon those who worship at their alters.

      Society thrives when wealth is well distributed. "Free markets" are a race to the bottom in slow motion. Eventually everyone who is not rich will be sleeping on dirt floors. You better believe that they are going to be really pissed off about it.

      • Society thrives when wealth is well distributed. "Free markets" are a race to the bottom in slow motion.

        Actually it's working as promised, it's just that the poor overseas are benefiting more than those here in the US. Eventually all sources of labor would equalize in price and then we'd have wage pressure like what happened prior to globalization. The problem is that automation technology is advancing so quickly that prior to full equalization most workers will have zero marginal utility.

    • The invisible hand doesn't by mathematical necessity raise all boats though, times change.

  • I wonder.... (Score:3, Informative)

    by Puls4r ( 724907 ) on Monday November 09, 2015 @11:44PM (#50898447)
    How many of them drive cars with foreign name plates? I have a friend who lost his job to someone from India a couple years ago. While we sat at his kitchen table I looked out his front windows at the two Toyota Prii that sat there. I was too polite to say anything.

    I don't want to downplay the issue. But... market forces and cheap labor. There are a WHOLE lot of Americans in Vietnam, Korea, China, and South Africa tooling up their auto plants and teaching them to be competitive. Welcome to the real world. H1-B Visas are a red herring, and the sooner IT folks realize it, the better. The bigger problem is all the jobs that are going overseas - but there isn't a fix to that.
    • by TheSync ( 5291 )

      Toyota Prius are built in Japan, but the following Toyota cars are built in the US for the US market: Avalon, Avalon Hybrid, Camry, Camry Hybrid, Corolla, Highlander, Highlander Hybrid, Sequoia, Sienna, Solara, Tacoma, Tundra, and Venza.

      Toyota has seven manufacturing plants [wikipedia.org] in the US.

  • Get a grip! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Tokolosh ( 1256448 ) on Monday November 09, 2015 @11:59PM (#50898493)

    If you are an American, with all the benefits that citizenship entails - education, infrastructure, living conditions, security, stable government, rule of law, material and spiritual abundance - that make you the envy of the rest of the planet... why the hell can you not compete with third-world peasants, struggling against oppressive governments, scarcity of resources, illiterate parents, crime and pollution?

  • The rote IT jobs that are best suited for labor arbitrage outsourcing are also the ones that should just be automated out of existence anyway or handled auto-magically by your cloud provider. The remaining jobs are the ones where close collaboration with the business makes them far more effective and those are going to be ones that you're going to regret offshoring.

    The number of jobs that don't fall into either of those buckets is getting smaller by the day. It's hard to see how this kind of outsourcing has

  • by ErichTheRed ( 39327 ) on Tuesday November 10, 2015 @12:09AM (#50898533)

    I already see the posts coming in saying "No union for me, thanks, I can take care of myself." I honestly used to think that, back when companies were only outsourcing routine tasks and qualified people were still being treated well everywhere. All I can say is, just wait until you're 40 or end up at one of these places offshoring their entire IT department. I am incredibly lucky and (for now) have a great senior-level position doing systems engineering work. However, between age discrimination, the loss of entry-level work, and the relentless drive to offshore anything that costs real money, we run the risk of driving talented people away from IT.

    Here's my idea -- form a profession similar to the one engineers have and a related trade guild, not a traditional labor union. Unions will never fly with the Libertarian, lone wolf, I'm-better-than-everyone-in-my-field crowd. It would have to be structured around the professional licensure model, like the AMA. The AMA and related organizations keep doctors employed and making serious money. How do they do this?
    - Limiting labor supply by not allowing new medical school slots to be opened
    - Paying for laws their members need passed, such as forcing recent health care reform to rely on the insurance model that keeps their reimbursement rates high
    - Ensuring quality of profession members by licensing new medical school grads, and training them through residency and fellowship programs
    - Requiring continuing education

    I would say the biggest benefit to members of the profession would be standardizing basic education. I'm not talking about handing Microsoft or Oracle or Google the reins, I'm talking about making sure people understand the fundamentals of IT and development, not just how to feed code into the magic black box. This would mean evil tradesy things like apprenticeships and OJT for new members, but it would ensure that we wouldn't get the typical MCSE bootcamp or coder academy graduates who only know one way to solve a problem.

    The first step beyond getting people to agree would be to basically do what the other professional organizations do -- take up a collection and pay for laws to be passed limiting the ability to offshore work. It's time we admit that the only way to get anything passed in Congress is to pay for it, and lobbyists are the equivalent of handing lawmakers paper bags of money.

    To make this fair to employers, they would need to get something too. I would say the best approach would be to promise no union style work rules would be enforced, while quality would be maintained by self-regulation. I think it's horrible that someone can screw up a job so badly they get fired, then just clean up their resume and get another job without any repercussion -- and I've seen this happen many times. If companies could be assured that their job would get done without the need to bring it back onshore to clean it up at consulting rates, they'd be open to this possibility.

  • by JoeyRox ( 2711699 ) on Tuesday November 10, 2015 @12:12AM (#50898551)
    No 'professional organization' is going to stop free market forces. Many have tried, all fail eventually. What you're up against is labor arbitrage, brought about by the globalization of the workforce. It first started in blue-collar professions; with advances in technology it has moved to knowledge work as well. Instead of thinking about India being some distant country think of it like the business next door, competing for the business that your employer provides. Why would a customer pay 3x for your employer's output than they would the Indian company? Do you think passing a law that prevents the business next to yours from competing would ever work?
    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward

      > Why would a customer pay 3x for your employer's output than they would the Indian company?

      As someone who has seen bargain-basement Indian IT work from one of the big offshore body shops, because American IT workers are worth it.

      All but two of the Indians I have worked with in the last 3 years have been fucking useless. They have no drive, no curiosity, and no initiative. If it's not in a runbook in front of them, they don't know how to do it. Hell, if it's a slight variation of something that IS in the

    • by Xyrus ( 755017 ) on Tuesday November 10, 2015 @01:42AM (#50898803) Journal

      No 'professional organization' is going to stop free market forces.

      Ah yes. The free market. That wonderful ideal the true red-blooded 'murican idolizes, regardless of how hard or how often it bends them over. In fact, they beg for more as they continually elect these "real Americans" back into office again and again no matter how badly they get screwed by them.

      The free market. Capitalism. Nonsense. It all ends up, one way or another, of stealing from you and giving to the few. I bet those company execs agonized terribly over doing this. I'm sure they all gave a sociopathic chuckle when they cooked up how they were going to shaft their employees while giving themselves a tasty little bonus since making 1000x the average worker just isn't enough to build a house made of money.

      Many have tried, all fail eventually. What you're up against is labor arbitrage, brought about by the globalization of the workforce. It first started in blue-collar professions; with advances in technology it has moved to knowledge work as well. Instead of thinking about India being some distant country think of it like the business next door, competing for the business that your employer provides. Why would a customer pay 3x for your employer's output than they would the Indian company? Do you think passing a law that prevents the business next to yours from competing would ever work?

      Of course not, because you know just as well as I do that any such legislation would either be lobbied into uselessness or have so many loopholes you'd swear it was a sweater. Congress is a free market. The lobbyists have known this for decades and the Supreme Court all but legalized paid for politicians. Few, if any, give a rat's ass about me, you, or the American people. As long as Wall Street keeps the money flowing into SuperPACS and Congressional pockets, they can continue the "Us vs. Them" bullshit and stay in office.

      Aside from that though, you're argument is ridiculous. Basically you're saying if you accept the same pay as someone working in a third world shithole, you can keep your job. But you can't because in this country we actually have laws and regulations regarding health and pay, things that third world shitholes don't have to care about. Somehow, I don't think repealing labor laws and turning America into a land of suburban third world slums to feed the corporate fat asses their million dollar bonuses is going to work out well.

    • Listen ass-hole. H1B Visas are work Visas issued by the government. They are meant to SUPPLEMENT the US workforce not replace it. So Yes we can control it. You don't like it, you can fuck off. If businesses don't like it they can move their sorry ass to India or China or whatever 3rd world labor resource they are looking for.
  • Pretty dumb move (Score:5, Insightful)

    by tompaulco ( 629533 ) on Tuesday November 10, 2015 @12:54AM (#50898691) Homepage Journal
    They moved all of these IT jobs to Cognizant, which is a company made up almost entirely of H1bs. Cognizant is blatantly in violation of the H1b laws, and if they are taken down, as they should be, all of the companies that are depending on Cognizant for outsourced labor will be up a creek without a paddle.
  • by SuperKendall ( 25149 ) on Tuesday November 10, 2015 @12:56AM (#50898697)

    I don't know what the situation was like at that company in particular.

    But having worked for and with a few large companies, it's not that hard to imagine why they were offshored - the article mentions the company "needed a more flexible staffing model that could better serve the cyclical nature of our business". I'm pretty sure from seeing other IT departments in action, that they in fact could not handle bursting kinds of workload, nor a cyclical business that ebbed and flowed to a large degree. IT departments are typically extremely rigid, and scared of even the smallest change.

    IT as a role in a company must evolve or die off altogether. It must change to a form that truly helps a business instead of shackling it.

  • by DirkDaring ( 91233 ) on Tuesday November 10, 2015 @08:53AM (#50899851)

    http://politics.slashdot.org/story/15/08/18/029216/trump-targets-the-abuse-of-h-1b-visas

  • by goodmanj ( 234846 ) on Tuesday November 10, 2015 @10:18AM (#50900307)

    If you're not sure who Cengage is, they're one of the the companies that charges $300 for a college Intro Physics textbook and then locks half the content and all the problems behind a website that requires a one-time-use registration card, so that used textbooks are worthless.

You're at Witt's End.

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