IT Consultant Talks About 'Negotiating for Nerds' (Video)

Video no longer available.

Matt Heusser did a Slashdot video interview back in 2013 titled How to Become an IT Expert Companies Seek Out and Pay Well. Despite noise from a few yammerheads about Matt getting 'free advertising' on Slashdot, which is unlikely since the vast majority of Slashdot users are more likely to compete with him than to hire him, most of the people who saw that video (or read the transcript) knew he was giving helpful advice to peers who might want to get out of the cubicle and work for themselves.

Today, Matt is with us again. This video is about 'Negotiating for Nerds.' Matt talks about negotiating a pay raise or consulting fee increase, starting with learning who has the actual power to negotiate with you. This is essential knowledge if you are employed (or self-employed) in IT and want to make sure you're getting all you are worth.

Slashdot: I’m Robin Miller for Slashdot. Today we are with Matt Heusser, who is going to talk about negotiating for nerds. He is a good negotiator. Are you fully socialized and do you deal with management? Can you be management? Well, this is going to help you with any or all of that. Take it away, Matt.

Matt Heusser: Well, Robin that’s a pretty intense promise there. Let’s start with setting expectations . You’re probably not going to become a wonderful broker of yachts in 15 minutes. So, right.

Slashdot: Well

Matt: But maybe we can help with some of the basics, right? You know, if you buy a stack of negotiation books and read them all, a lot of them say a lot of the same things and maybe you can get that for here free. How is that?

Slashdot: Well, we’re talking really in terms of work, you know, like with the boss. Or in your case, where you’ve – you fired your boss and you work for yourself. So you are the hardest boss of all, right?

Matt: I do own a small consulting company, which means every client is a boss, by the way. Don’t get fooled.

Slashdot: This would be where to start, what is negotiable, in a work context, and what isn't.

Matt: Well, you know you’re negotiating, I think, when you have two people where they have to – one wants what the other one has to offer. And they both have to have alternatives to a negotiated agreement, right? So it looks like a negotiation when you’re going in to argue with your boss and you want 5% and he wants to give you 1%, then you go back and forth, it looks a negotiation but unless you have a job offer in your back pocket it’s not, right? You're just kind of begging. I mean, maybe you’re lucky, maybe the CEO is the Acting Vice President of software engineering and he happens to be your boss this week and he has got budget and authority and he has had a profitable year, he can give you 5% or 4 or 3, but that’s just because he is having a good day or he likes to or whatever, right. And you’re not actually doing a back and forth negotiation. That’s again, when you have some alternatives. You say no, it’s got to be 2.5 and he says nope, you’re getting 1, you turn in your letter of resignation, you go take the job offer across the street. That was a real negotiation. If you’re not doing that, it’s not, and we shouldn’t fool ourselves.

Slashdot: Okay, good point. You’re right, having the choice, that’s what makes it. Because you can stand your ground.

Matt: Yeah, and I didn’t, I didn’t make that up, it’s from a book called, I think, “Getting to Yes.” The name of the authors escapes me but when I read that, I had that similar, oh yes, I see that makes sense kind of reaction and have tried to keep that internalized forever since. So if you’re not a good negotiator and you know it, right, like people – because a lot of people that’s what they do, like the guy in marketing, the guy in sales, the guy in management, and that’s what they do all day long. So we’re trying to get the flibflab to connect the RSS widget over FTP, right, that’s not our focus. So when we go into these things we might not be aware there is even opportunity to negotiate and we don’t even like, we don’t know what’s going on. But early in my career I went to a meeting, and absolutely there is no way I could do the job in less than a month and I came out promising to do it in two weeks. And I don’t even know what happened, but it just happened, I don’t even understand because I was up against – I thought I was speaking the truth and I found myself in a negotiation, that’s very sad because there is no way I could do it in less than a month, everybody was happy with me, right? So if you find yourself in that position I think there are things you can do to actually set the negotiation up to be successful, so you don’t – it doesn’t come down to people skills before you walk in the room, you’re already in a good place.

Slashdot: Okay. What do you mean in a good place?

Matt: Well, so here are a few things: you got to be talking to a decision maker, right? You got to be talking with the person that can sign on the dotted line. If you’re talking to your manager and he can’t give you the raise because he’s only got a bucket that's so big and it is already all passed out, you’re talking to the wrong person. So you figure out and talk to a decision maker. They’ve got to genuinely want the service that you are offering, they've got to see some value in whatever it is you are doing, if you’ve got the offer from someone else and they don’t see your value you are going to lose and have to go somewhere else, they’ve got to think that you are the right provider of that and now is the right time. And they have to have budget.

I think I mentioned 'decision maker' before, but even if they are the CEO, if they’ve got an annual budget cycle and if it’s all spent for the year, it doesn’t matter, come back in January and then you have – if you have the conversation in December 1 versus January 1, you could have widely different reactions, you are still wanted they are convinced of your value, they are the decision maker and maybe even now it’s the time, but the budget is not there.

Slashdot: So it’s not really the right time?

Matt: Yeah, yeah, right, but they want it now, they want it now, but they can’t get it now because there is no budget. So you have all those set up and maybe the fifth, a couple of more to think about is, what is the market paying for the service, right? So if you know every other junior programmer of the team is making – I have $50,000 year and you know you are making $45,000 and then that’s just a data point. The conversation would be very different than if you didn’t know or if it was slipped, now I want to get a raise... I’m still the junior, but I’m making more than everybody else, that’s a – right. So if you know that your price well for the market, if you have evidence of that, you know what they are paying and you are an alternative provider and you are cheaper why wouldn’t they use you. You get those things – these five things together and you come in like, you don’t have to do anything you just kind of say, I’m – I do network support for you for $40 an hour, I know you are paying $50, and not happy with what you’ve got, we worked together on this project and that project and you liked what we did, and I know your renewal is coming up next month on this budget right, you don’t have to do anything, you’ve got the job.

Slashdot: Now wait. I want to just know one thing Matt. You’re talking here that as an employee, but as possibly an outside vendor, which you are nowadays, is that

Matt: It’s a simplistic example, but you can apply all these things, sure.

Slashdot: Yeah, but I mean, it’s really the same thing, isn’t it?

Matt: Yep.

Slashdot: You really have to, as an employee, than look at your decision makers as your clients, right?

Matt: And let’s get, I know you’ve got an intelligence background, so intelligence can be

Slashdot: Wait, wait, wait, my background is military intelligence. Ask George Carlin about that.

Matt: Sure. I understand a joke or two about that, but it’s a cliché, but not untrue that knowledge is power. So, say that you know about upcoming changes in an organization, there’s going to be re-org and one man – your current manager is going to go somewhere else. And you know there is no succession plan in place, alright, and you really aren’t happy in your current role. And you know how much he made, you know how much you made. There is a huge gap. Now would be a fantastic time to start having a conversation and you got to know an alternative to negotiated agreement, you keep your current job, right.

Slashdot: So, there is no downside and there is plenty upside, right?

Matt: And you’re getting – you’re creating an upside for the other person, right? Why should we give you the raise, so and so, why, unless you got a stick, you’re going to whack me if you didn’t get the raise, why should I give it to you? But on the other hand here, you’re solving a problem, alright. And if you’ve got information to come to I did, I just got these projects done across the finish line, you trust my work, it’s going to create stability for the team. There is no one else on the team that really wants this, everybody just likes be in technical, they don’t want to go into management. Not going to create a fight by doing this, we don’t have to have a search, we get to have some consistency, why wouldn’t you do it? And now so, you’ve got all those five things lined up boom! now you’re negotiating on price, right, because why wouldn’t they do it?

Slashdot: Here’s one thing that is

Matt: I’m oversimplifying it a little bit, but I think you can

Slashdot: No, no, no, I understand what you’re saying. I think everybody understands, alright. I mean, Slashdot readers are not stupid people. At one point, we actually figured we probably had an [IQ] basis we had the smartest average audience on the Internet.

Matt: No, no, I was going for the opposite thing. I think that your readers are saying, I’m oversimplifying it and that’s probably true.

Slashdot: No, that’s okay. Good example, but the question is what do they want to do, what do you want to do? Now, you went off on your own. Do you think that’s desirable? Should other people want to be like Matt?

Matt: Oh man, this is such a hard conversation. I think a lot of people are so – I think that human beings – I feel like I’m in a jungle. I’ve got my spear and there is a tiger and it’s scary and it’s hard. And if I don’t get that tiger, we aren’t going to have dinner tonight and there is a chance that it might get me, but I feel so alive. I know people are often socialized to want a job and if that’s they want to do that, fine, I just – I have a hard time imagining, that’s what humans are made to be. It seems more like farming. They’re farming, they are the human farm, it’s – you know, go make your job for I am going to work for someone else, I struggle with it. But if that’s what you want to do, sure, okay, right.

There is a joke in the TV series of Silicon Valley where the programmers, with the guys working at the – basically who he is, basically Google – he says, I really want to go to a start-up, and the other programmers say, yeah because our six-figure jobs where we get free food and snacks all day long and everything is provided for us, are so terrible.

Re:

[50000BTU_barbecue]

As long as that mindset applies to CEOs as well, I'm all for it. I've never seen outsourcing go that way however. Odd, that.

Re:

[ruir]

It is good you prefer to pay more and not have resident people tendering and taking care of your own business. Have you considered also outsourcing the local idiots and finding another line of work? Be careful about the poisons you choose, I have worked with indian expats, and to date I am not impressed. They say yes to everything and are geniuses on paper, in practice their concepts are weak and the work shoddy. The things my actually go well for a while, normally either it takes very incompetent people t

Re:So, more free advertising

[stephanruby]

Despite noise from a few yammerheads about Matt getting 'free advertising' on Slashdot, which is unlikely since the vast majority of Slashdot users are more likely to compete with him than to hire him

As a Yammerhead myself (whatever that means, by the way thanks a lot Dice for calling me names)

I'm more upset at you guys for turning Slashdot into a Slashvertisement for Dice.

Before the purchase from Dice Holdings, Slashdot wasn't really a place for recruitment advice or recruitment news. I know that as owners of Slashdot, you can do whatever you want with the editorial content, but just know that you've been steadily losing most of your readers here.

Re:

[Anonymous Coward]

You're no yammerhead. It's a Robert Heinlein word for people who do nothing but whine and get in the way and contribute nothing useful. From 'The Moon is a Harsh Mistress.' As that into (above) says, "a few yammerheads."

Re:

[drakaan]

Great. Now, since I didn't immediately recognize where it was from, I'm going to have to spend the next month or two re-reading all of my Heinlein books.

Re:

[gsslay]

Yeah. What do IT professionals need recruitment advice for? It's not like they work in a job market, or even need a job or a wage or anything.

Want a pay raise? Changes jobs, frequently.

[__aaclcg7560]

I make 80% more as a tech contractor working numerous short-term assignments (one day to one year) for different companies than a tech worker collecting 2% raises at the same company for 5+ years.

Re:Want a pay raise? Changes jobs, frequently.

[roc97007]

Right. I was a contractor for several years, but got a FTE position when I decided to buy a home and raise a family, for precisely this reason. Took a hit in salary when I made the switch, but that's the price one pays.

The positive side, savings during the contracting days paid a hefty down payment on the house.

Re:

[__aaclcg7560]

I was out of work for two years (2009-2010), underemployed for six months (working 20 hours PER MONTH), and filed for Chapter Seven bankruptcy in 2011. After the first six months of unemployment, I was told that I was "unemployable" by recruiters and "overqualified" for minimum wage jobs by hiring managers. With 99 weeks of unemployment benefits and draining my savings to zero, I managed to weather that one out. Unless a company offered to pay for moving, I couldn't afford to move and didn't. Six years late

Re:

[tnk1]

This is true. As a contractor, I paid absurd heath insurance rates. Now that I am older and married, forget it.

Granted, now we have Obamacare, but that shit is pretty damn expensive too, unless you are getting a grant to offset it. It may be just as much, if not more, than the rates I paid to obtain health insurance on my own.

Of course, I also know that I have to switch jobs every few years to make a decent raise, so in that respect, I'm living the contractor experience with less pay, but more overall sa

Re:

[__aaclcg7560]

I would have to pay $650 per month at my old employer for healthcare. Similar coverage cost $350 per month under Obamacare. That's without any subsidies.

Re:

[sribe]

IRAs can have a MUCH larger ROI than any 401k. It's not my fault you were stupid with your investments.

If you have a decent 401(k), you should have a similar range of investment options, with similar costs.

Re:

[__aaclcg7560]

Health insurance, 401K with employer match, etc, what the hell is that? Life has been hard since the Great Recession. However, with everyone wanting to work in San Francisco, the perks are getting better for workers who are willing to give up hipster society and work in boring Silicon Valley.

Re:

[50000BTU_barbecue]

That's because you are in North America where employers see employees like spoiled food at the back of the fridge. Yes, you need to be a team player with a pedigree a mile long, but it's never enough, and "team" only goes so far as "boss", then suddenly it's all about THEM.

Re:

[50000BTU_barbecue]

Yes, imagine that, I can criticize what I see, is that OK with you?

Yes, shutting up and being happy to pay the bills sounds like a dream to me. What's wrong with that? I'd like a life beyond constantly running around so other people can pay their bills. As a matter of fact my #1 priority these days is getting the hell out of North America.

Re:

[__aaclcg7560]

In Silicon Valley, all of them.

Re:

[antdude]

What about fringe benefits?

Re:

[__aaclcg7560]

As a contractor, you shouldn't expect fringe benefits because you're never around long enough to collect. Although that's changing somewhat in Silicon Valley. All the young hipsters want to work in San Francisco, so the perks are getting better for those willing to work in plain old Silicon Valley.

Re:

[antdude]

Ah, thanks. I am not in SV. LA & OC though!

Disrespectful

[Venerable Vegetable]

"Despite noise from a few yammerheads about Matt getting 'free advertising' on Slashdot, which is unlikely since the vast majority of Slashdot users are more likely to compete with him than to hire him, most of the people who saw that video (or read the transcript) knew he was giving helpful advice"

We've all read the comments of "what Slashdot has become". Although I do think it is on a slippery slope, I still enjoy most articles and comments and consider it a respectable site. But this article is a disgrace. Not because of the content. While I really don't care what mr Heusser has to say, I didn't really care about the 4K smartphone display either. So I just skip these articles.

But the trollish and rude editing is not what I expect from this site. Be respectful to all your readers. Don't call your readers yammerheads, even though you don't agree with their points. While some are trolling (don't feed them), others are honestly concerned. The rest of the phrasing is just as rude. Are you putting "free advertising" between quotes because it wasn't free? The other people who saw the video, who apparently didn't "know" mr Heusser was giving free advise, not your target demographic anymore?

Really....

Re:

[pete6677]

All they're doing is speaking the language of their user base. Slashbots are pedantic, rude and trollish. There's nothing wrong with an editor that tailors the content accordingly.

Re:

[Glarimore]

I would think that there would be a higher bar set for an editor of a website than for some random dipshits who post on said website.

Re:

[pete6677]

Nope. This is the New Slashdot.

Re:

[OzPeter]

All they're doing is speaking the language of their user base. Slashbots are pedantic, rude and trollish. There's nothing wrong with an editor that tailors the content accordingly.

You can't control what other people say or do. But you can control how you react to it.

And labeling people who disagree with you as "hammerheads" is not a good reaction.

Really?

[nospam007]

"most of the people who saw that video (or read the transcript) knew he was giving helpful advice to peers who might want to get out of the cubicle and work for themselves. "

The elusive ones, who actually read TFA or watch TFV?

Both of them?

Re:

[tehlinux]

I watched a solid 7 minutes to see if it was actually going anywhere. Those are 7 minutes I wish I had back...

Those "Yammerheads"

[OzPeter]

Those "Yammerheads" are your revenue source.

Re:

[Anonymous Coward]

Come on over to soylent news [soylentnews.org] and join other slashdot ex-pats at a site that respects its community.

Nope

[roc97007]

Nope, can't negotiate salary anymore [slashdot.org]. For gender equality, you know. Not for the benefit of the hiring company. Really.

Re:

[roc97007]

> That company is of relevance HOW ?

Good point. I guess the only relevance is that they are having their moment in the news for some politically correct drivel.

Mind you, I'm on your side on this. Just pointing out that some companies are trying to sell us on the idea that salary negotiation is *mean* and unfair to genders who are less able to negotiate. (And why this isn't in and of itself considered sexist is beyond me.)

You don't have to negotiate for nerds

[Applehu Akbar]

You can get a huge, willing supply of them for almost nothing, and they're so easy to dispose of at the end of the project.

Except for Ellen Pao

[Smerta]

Reddit employees - no need to watch this video, salary negotiating skills are no longer relevant to you: http://www.reddit.com/r/news/c... [reddit.com]