Windows 8.1 Update Crippling PCs With BSOD, Microsoft Suggests You Roll Back 304
MojoKid writes Right on schedule, Microsoft rolled-out an onslaught of patches for its "Patch Tuesday" last week, and despite the fact that it wasn't the true "Update 2" for Windows 8.1 many of us were hoping for, updates are generally worth snatching up. Since the patch rollout, it's been discovered that four individual updates are causing random BSoD issues for its users, with KB2982791, a kernel-mode related driver, being the biggest culprit. Because of the bug's severity, Microsoft is recommending that anyone who updated go and uninstall a couple of the specific updates, or rollback using Windows Restore. You can uninstall these updates in much the same way you uninstall any app; the difference is that once you're in the "Programs and Features" section, you'll need to click on "View installed updates" on the left. While it's mostly recommended that you uninstall 2982791, you may wish to uninstall the others as well, just in case.
For some it was just a plain black screen (Score:5, Interesting)
For some it was just a plain black screen with no errors displayed (win 8.1 x64) , same fixes though:
http://answers.microsoft.com/e... [microsoft.com]
Re:For some it was just a plain black screen (Score:4, Informative)
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Huh? F8 doesn't exist anymore on Windows 8.x
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Windows is my gaming system, from which I browse when I have been gaming (as I just finished a bit ago).
Linux is actually where I do most of my work already.
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I can haz games fine on linux too - especially as there's a well knows FOSS software to provide Windows API for, and run large set of Windows applications. Sure, I can't get every/any game to work, but I consider myself a hardcore gamer and yet don' need to have all of them. There's way more good games that work on it for me to ever play all of them. And I've run linux almost extensively since 02 - when I switched I first thought I'd keep windows as dual boot for games, but after 2 weeks in linhx I never we
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I'm pretty sure casual computer users still need to pay tax.
Then use MyTax. That'll work for Android as well as Linux computers. E-Tax is a dinosaur.
https://www.ato.gov.au/Individ... [ato.gov.au]
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Linux has worked fine for most peoples needs on desktop for ages. I dont see much additional benefit for it from android, which is really for mobile devices, or Chrome OS, which is mostly good for lightweight netbooks.
People just need to get over whatever it is keeping them for believing it don't work on desktops. Please, no quoting ones special needs cases as rebbutals.
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Yeah... but Woolworth's is still in business? That's what's newsworthy... every Woolworths store I've ever known has been shutdown for ages.
I work for television production, and luckily those creative types keep Macs persistent in our computer inventory, but most desktops are still Windows; we still use Maya on Windows, and even those lucky enough to get MacBooks get Windows installed (one of our VPs called his MacBook the best Windows computer he ever had).
It's not happening enough to matter. I'm glad I
It isn't only Windows 8 (Score:5, Informative)
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Don't try to "fathom" anything. Just turn off automatic updates, and you'll be a bit safer.
Re:It isn't only Windows 8 (Score:5, Interesting)
Don't try to "fathom" anything. Just turn off automatic updates, and you'll be a bit safer.
Microsoft doesn't pay attention to that any more. Before I nuked 8.1 and replaced it with Mint, they had at least 5 forced updates that wrecked my wife's laptop.
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As an additional measure I block micro$oft in my firewall so im not "forced" to do anything..
That's quite the indictment when you have to do that. Sorta like taking out a PFA against your parents.
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Do you have any proof of this? I actually run Windows 8.1 Update 2 (x64) with Windows Update set to only notify me of updates. No updates from Microsoft have been installed without me explicitly installing them.
Well, only that I had updates turned completely off, and on several occasions my wife told me the computer was sluggish and acting weird. I shut it down, and lo, an update. The only update I ever purposely allowed was to 8.1.
I'm not the only one, and this link was regarding Windows 7:
http://superuser.com/questions... [superuser.com]
It certainly isn't a new phenomenon, here's one from 2007
http://blog.seattlepi.com/micr... [seattlepi.com]
Hey - maybe we're all just kooks? http://answers.microsoft.com/e... [microsoft.com]
Install an update whe
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If it was just one update I might agree with you, but deciding to release four different bad updates at the same time is just ridiculous. All of my friends that worked in QA there have been laid-off, but even that doesn't justify the decision to release known bad updates.
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Confirm Windows 7 affected. System fonts wouldn't display resulting in illegible system.
Did a restore and then cautiously installed update one by one, with reboots in between each.
Running OK now
Seems the problem was Windows installing all those updates in one big bunch.
The Cutter
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It isn't hard to imagine at all. Consider how many versions of Windows there are and how many different hardware configurations it runs on.
Windows 8 Home and Pro
x86, x64 and ARM versions of both
50+ languages for each
I'm sure there are more variations than that. It's the same with IE. Every time they release an update it has to be testing on a few hundred configurations minimum, and even then there will be cases they didn't test.
Re:It isn't only Windows 8 (Score:5, Informative)
I can't fathom how slashdot fall to the point where people with ignorance on your level get modded up instead of into oblivion. Whats better is that you're claiming that Windows 8 drivers that don't work on Windows 7 caused the same problem for you. This is an ID10T or PBKAC error I think.
Before jumping on the previous poster for mentioning Windows 7, you might have wanted to read the linked article, or better yet Microsoft's own description of one of the updates [microsoft.com] that states it affects a LOT more than just Win8x, and it has nothing to do with drivers
Update to support the new currency symbol for the Russian ruble in Windows
Buffer overflow in a character set table?
Re:It isn't only Windows 8 (Score:5, Insightful)
Here is Microsoft's workaround [microsoft.com]. Notice how it involves fonts and the registry. The registry: another 'gift' that keeps on giving.
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Windows doesn't do font processing in the kernel. This update changes the way the kernel handles the Russian code page, which Russian versions of Windows use instead of ASCII since the American Standard Code for Information Interchange doesn't support Cyrillic characters.
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Windows doesn't do font processing in the kernel
then where did this come from? [mitre.org]
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Re:It isn't only Windows 8 (Score:4, Informative)
Luckily, neither Gnome nor systemd run in kernel space. What's even better, you can have a fully functional syste without either of those as well.
Typing this on Linux with Gnome, and no systemd. Imagine that!
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Yesterday I had mod points :-(
Guess I'll join you down here at 0 Troll for discussion of a sensible, unprejudiced manner. Shall we start with Heartbleed?
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Re:It isn't only Windows 8 (Score:5, Funny)
The scary thing about Linux is that they can do sometimes platform updates which suddenly break fundamental things like keyboard [kernel.org] or ACPI fan control [kernel.org].
But then again, the bleeding-edge development process also allows to get all the new cool features quickly into the kernel.
Re:It isn't only Windows 8 (Score:4, Insightful)
The scary thing about Linux
There's more than one Linux, and it's very easy to choose a stable distro that doesn't live on the bleeding edge.
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Re:It isn't only Windows 8 (Score:4, Informative)
There's more than one Linux, and it's very easy to choose a stable distro that doesn't live on the bleeding edge.
Do you mean like Debian Testing, (Jessie), that broke both my sound and my ability to suspend during the last dist-upgrade? Or do you mean like Debian Stable, (Wheezy), which won't work with my wired network hardware so I can't even install it in my new machine without a bunch of CD's and a few prayers? Or perhaps you mean Ubuntu, (I moved to Xubuntu when I got fed up with trying to get Debian working), which prompts me to reboot after updates a couple of times a week like some crappy Windows box?
I don't think I could ever really go back to Windows, (especially given my recent experiences with 8.1 on my GF's new laplet), but recently there have been days when I've toyed with the idea...
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Re:It isn't only Windows 8 (Score:5, Insightful)
I've never, ever had the severe kinds of problems you mention, and I've been on Ubuntu or its derivatives (most recently Mint) for years and years. And this is across maybe a dozen machines of all descriptions, and with all sorts of graphics cards, including the dreaded nvidia, which works just fine and only required a little patience.
That is not to say I take the position that Linux is completely golden and Windows is purely trash. There are always bugs and problems. However, given what I paid for my Linux distros, I think I got a really good deal which far exceeds expectations.
The problem is that some vocal Windows people will jump on Linux bugs as "proof" that Linux is not "ready" and so on. But Microsoft's latest antic convinces me that Windows, after how many years, is less ready.
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I've seen all sorts of similar stuff. Mind you, it's not as bad as the GP suggests. If you're running Debian testing, you *will* get bit on the ass inevitably. And Ubuntu prompts you to boot more than any other distro largely because the others don't really prompt you to boot at the GUI layer after a kernel update.
I've seen some updates that render a system unboo
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I only reboot windows once a month after patch tuesday.
Crappy experiences are mostly gone since 7 (and in my case, since Vista as well. I experienced only one major bug in vista, slow file copying which was fixed in SP1)
Re:It isn't only Windows 8 (Score:5, Insightful)
I can usually find some way to boot into a repair mode and get things running again in Linux (I usually go with Debian) without having to follow the Microsoft approach of restoring my whole O/S from the install disk - which some people have been forced to do with these recent update bugs as they can't even get a boot into Windows safe mode.
I have never had an update hose my Linux system so badly that I cannot get in there and replace or remove the offending driver or whatever.
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You've apparently never had to deal with buggy Linux drivers. I've been fighting with a buggy nVidia implementation ever since I switched it to be my Linux server. It has never quite worked right on Linux (Fedora, Ubuntu), but since it's a server, it's not a big deal.
I DID find out the hard way when they changed mdadm to HALT BOOT when *ANY* array is degraded, and then not give a useful error message.
If your Windows PC is getting BSODs, either it's hardware fault, or it's a bad driver. (Or possibly a driv
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Even with a non-functional kernel, you can boot from a rescue disk and add other kernel versions in there, can't you?
My Debian install usually has a couple of kernels to choose from in the boot menu.
Graphics driver problems shouldn't stop you from getting a working command prompt, allowing you to fix or replace the driver.
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I had persistent bluescreens that I tracked down to an overheating SAS controller. It was not a pleasant experience. It's been pretty stable since then, though.
Re:It isn't only Windows 8 (Score:5, Informative)
In 5 years, I never had a Linux update break anything, no BSOD's or lockups either. The "other" PC, we'll call that "Windows" locks up at least once per day, BSOD's, nags about everything, loses its LAN connection configuration, won't do this or that, etc. Two identical PC's, one Linux, one Windows, only one is stable and trusted.
If you have Win7 or Win8 locking up once a day or BSODs etc, then the problem is you.
Seriously, it's you.
Have to agree with that sentiment. I have not had any major problems with win7 since replacing old outdated hardware. The last big problem I had was the AMD software which kept prompting me to update to the latest drivers, advice which I stupidly accepted; the AMD driver developers dropped support for 'old' chipsets but never modified the updaters to advise against installing drivers that were no longer compatible.
At the time I believed I was doing the right thing by keeping up with the suggested updates, this is not necessarily true all of the time. Sometimes you are trying to be too cheap instead of updating your old hardware. Also you should usually be able to track the cause of the BSOD and work out what hardware, driver etc. is being reported. Thats why the BSOD has all those scary numbers on it. So you can fix it. Instead of complaining about your daily BSOD.
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I'm taking collections for a Karma Self-Destruction Fund, to support people who accidentally held up logic and sane discussion towards a Microsoft subject, and get themselves mutilated by the prejudicial horde. Care to donate?
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It isn't really a question of money, you simply cannot test anything even close to that many configurations. No other vendor supports anywhere near that many. The could leave it up to the OEM to test but that would probably end up like the state of Android updates.
OS X is supported on a relatively small amount of configurations and they bundle driver updates for the core hardware so it is generally much more stable across its available hardware platforms.
iOS is a comparatively very narrow set of configurati
In other news... (Score:5, Funny)
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I wonder if Microsoft has considered changing their name to distance themselves from their reputation for the software they produce.
This update deleted my "All Programs" list (Score:4, Funny)
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I'm going to have to reinstall Windows 7, and I can't tell you how excited I am about this.
What about your backup, restore to that.
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Use System Restore in Windows 7. Start up the pc and when you see the first text on the screen, press the F8 button and then choose Safe Mode with Command Prompt. Type: rstrui.exe
For XP users:
%systemroot%\system32\restore\rstrui.exe
Now you can use your mouse and choose a date to go back to before the problem.
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Unfortunately rstrui.exe is a GUI rather than a console app so if your GUI fonts are messed up it is unusable.
rstrui needs to be a console app
The Cutter
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Heh. Back in the day there was a certain group of users who'd disable System Restore out of concern that all it did was back up viruses.
Forget TFA (Score:5, Informative)
Here is the better workaround for the problem from Microsoft: https://support.microsoft.com/kb/2982791
Killer apps (Score:2)
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And who the hell is this General Failure anyway, and why is he reading my floppy drive!?
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"If you do not have media, you should use the power button to restart your computer during the startup process three times. This should start the Windows Recovery Environment. "
In fact not so much horse shit as you assumed.
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"If you do not have media, you should use the power button to restart your computer during the startup process three times. This should start the Windows Recovery Environment. "
Oh yeah, THAT's gotta be good for the hardware. Definite improvement over F8. Thanks Microsoft...
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"If you do not have media, you should use the power button to restart your computer during the startup process three times. This should start the Windows Recovery Environment. "
Oh yeah, THAT's gotta be good for the hardware. Definite improvement over F8. Thanks Microsoft...
It is actually quite clever: If the system barks 3 times in a row when trying to start, the operating system *should* infer that something is preventing an orderly startup. In that case, dropping into the recovery console is a perfectly good choice.
NTFS has volume shadow copy on by default for the system drive. It records changes to the *system* (Windows/** and Program Files/**) and lets you roll back those changes without rolling back any user/data files.
So even if you f***** up so royally as to make the s
I've learned the hard way (Score:5, Insightful)
I've learned the hard way over the years. Never let Windows Update install a driver of any kind. Ever.
I've had them blow out network cards, video cards, sound cards, and low level on-board devices. I've had them completely bork systems to the point where they were unbootable.
Go to the vendor and get the official updates.
I don't know how they do it, but Windows Update perpetually mis-identifies hardware and installs the wrong drivers, delivers broken drivers, and otherwise screws up when it comes to drivers. Yet the official vendor's drivers (such as Intel) work just fine.
Go figure. One would think Microsoft is just redeploying those same drivers, but years of being burned have taught me that's not the case.
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"I've learned the hard way over the years. Never let Windows Update install a driver of any kind. Ever.
I've had them blow out network cards, video cards, sound cards, and low level on-board devices. I've had them completely bork systems to the point where they were unbootable. "
thats not a bug, thats a feature... you've heard of vendor lockin and planned obsolescence...
Re:I've learned the hard way (Score:4, Informative)
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I've learned the hard way over the years. Never let Windows Update install a driver of any kind. Ever.
That's a good strategy, but one of the offending patches [microsoft.com] was a change to include the new symbol for ruble. [wsj.com] It wasn't a driver update.
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is this BETA? (Score:3)
I thought for sure that I had missed the [Satire] tag
Connected to mass layoff of Windows SDETs? Maybe? (Score:5, Insightful)
One of the bits of logic used for recent layoff and reorgs has been something like 'component/security/etc testing had become so mature at Microsoft (!) and ingrained into normal dev processes, that such a large population of SDETs (testers) across OS and key office products is unecessary.' Just chew on that for a second, and ponder how intensely stupid that seems.
But nevermind my opinion; I guess we're getting some at-scale empirical testing of whether getting rid of testers en masse was a good idea.
It's pretty hard to roll back automated updates (Score:5, Informative)
I hadn't realised it was an update which caused the error, so when I finally resorted to system restore it just auto-updated immediately and broke again. At which point a second System Restore decided it would fail to modify a file and thus refused to work. Four hours later, I had to format to get Windows back.
One thing I learned: Disable fast boot, if it's enabled, on your Windows machine (powercfg -h off will disable hibernation entirely). Apparently a Ubuntu boot dvd cannot mount an NTFS partition with write enabled if a hiberfile.sys is present (apparently windows leaves its mounts active and stored in said file, so modifying the file system would cause problems). You can mount it as read-only and get your data, but if you run into a problem that could be fixed by modifying or deleting files then you're out of luck if fast boot is enabled and the action required cannot be performed from the windows boot environment (you can't disable fast boot from it, the required services aren't loaded).
Your startup time will be a little slower, but you might just save that time if something ever goes wrong with your Windows install and system restore fails.
Re:It's pretty hard to roll back automated updates (Score:5, Interesting)
I hadn't realised it was an update which caused the error, so when I finally resorted to system restore it just auto-updated immediately and broke again.
Rule number 1 = Dont use system restore
Rule number 2 = Dont use system restore
Rule number 3 = Google "Stop 0x0000000e" error code on your BSOD.
Rule number 4 = Remember the last thing you did before the BSOD started happening, reverse the process. Job fixed.
One thing I learned: Disable fast boot, if it's enabled, on your Windows machine. Your startup time will be a little slower, but you might just save that time if something ever goes wrong with your Windows install and system restore fails.
All fastboot does is skip a few bios checks (eg: fast memory scan instead of full). It will not effect anything else, unless you have a hardware fault which can be detected at BIOS post.
Apparently a Ubuntu boot dvd cannot mount an NTFS partition with write enabled if a hiberfile.sys is present (apparently windows leaves its mounts active and stored in said file, so modifying the file system would cause problems).
Sounds like the Ubuntu DVD doesnt include NTFS-3G which is required for NTFS write ability on linux. Or simply its a safey feature to prevent you deleting the hibernation file.
The only time you need to keep this file is if your machine is in hibernation and powered off. Only then will it contain possible data your working on that isnt technically saved. If you wernt in hibernation when you powered the machine off, the file is just a placeholder for the next hibernation.
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All fastboot does is skip a few bios checks (eg: fast memory scan instead of full). It will not effect anything else, unless you have a hardware fault which can be detected at BIOS post.
Wrong. Fastboot hibernates the kernel but not the userland processes. It depends on drivers being capable of quickly re-initializing hw devices, but what it does is it brings up the kernel from a hibernated image and skips most of the usual hardware detection and device initialization.
Rule number 1 = Dont use system restore
Rule number 2 = Dont use system restore
Rule number 3 = Google "Stop 0x0000000e" error code on your BSOD.
Rule number 4 = Remember the last thing you did before the BSOD started happening, reverse the process. Job fixed.
Really, really stupid advice. System restore has N previous versions of your driver setup. You can reliably go back in time for the operating system but retain any changes to user files. It is stupid to NOT use system restore.
Pending Restart.. (Score:2)
So - my system has installed KB2982791 and is pending a restart.
How on earth do I remove it now, before restarting a system that may never restart ?
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You can't always, but you can prepare a recovery disk and also burn a copy of HBCD before your inevitable power cycle or reboot.
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There were some posts in one of the microsoft support forums that indicated removing %system%\FNTCACHE.DAT resolved the problem. That led to discussions that it might have been systems with a large number of installed fonts that were vulnerable.
Windows will automatically replace FNTCACHE.DAT, so removing it won't hurt.
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I suspect you don't understand what 'pending restart' means in the context of updates.
never update windows on patch day, wait a week (Score:5, Insightful)
One thing I have learned over the course of MS OS's lives, is to NEVER update the computer at within a week of the updates being released. MS had a nice reputation for putting out crappy patches every now and then.
You are the product tester and you get to pay for it. So be smart, let the stupid people get the BSOD's so you don't have to.
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Or, there's a lot of different windows configurations and they can't test them all. We updated a few hundred machines last week, zero problems. Sounds like we got lucky, but it's not as if these problems nuke every machine.
Reference? (Score:2)
This post and the linked article say, "Because of the bug's severity, Microsoft is recommending that anyone who updated go and uninstall a couple of the specific updates, or rollback using Windows Restore."
I note that neither this post nor the linked article reference or link to a specific instruction from Microsoft. Is this a joke?
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Reference Known issue number 3.
The linked report is rather dull, lacking all of the OMG DEAD COMPUTERS EVERYWHERE, aspect.
It does confirm the problem, and states downloads were removed, followed by what appears to be (only glanced at and did not actually read) detailed instructions for 7/8 to remove the updates if you were negatively affected.
This is why I always wait one week and do my updates manually on the advice of a wizened old computer guru I knew years ago.
Field day for hackers. (Score:4, Interesting)
They fired 30% of their testers (Score:5, Interesting)
The Windows Serviceability team (dealing with updates) was decimated in the middle of last month, losing about 30% of their testers. This outcome is not surprising at all. Expect things to get much worse soon.
How many people will do this? (Score:3)
Since most people on this planet are not tech-savvy and don't read sites like /., I wonder what percentage of Windows 8 users will actually do the things Microsoft recommends.
delete fntcache.dat fixed some people (Score:2)
It appears that booting into recovery, or using a standalone Linux distro, and deleting C:\windows\system32\fntcache.dat solved the problem for some people, if not all of the ones who tried it.
There are other problems with the patches regarding fonts, but at least you'll be able to boot.
a case of the Mondays (Score:2)
Mega case of the Mondays. Seriously, who coded it to crash the entire OS if a font cache seems to be a bit off instead of regenerating or renaming it?
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Seriously, who coded it to crash the entire OS if a font cache seems to be a bit off instead of regenerating or renaming it?
The same people who decided font processing in the kernel is a good idea.
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You cannot just move font processing out of the kernel. To do remove kernel stuff piecemeal is asking for a system slower than Steve Ballmer's thought processes. The thing has to be designed from the get-go to be a lightweight kernel or else the machine spends all its time process swapping.
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You cannot just move font processing out of the kernel.
Yes, yes you can.
Upcoming fix? (Score:2)
Will this be fixed on the next Patch Tuesday? I haven't been using the Windows macines much lately, but one is powered up, idle, and accepting updates. Will it fix itself?
For Win9, MS should go back to Service Packs... (Score:5, Interesting)
Instead of getting a SP for Windows 8, we now have 8.1. Instead of getting SPs for Windows 8.1, we now have 8.1 Update 1 and 8.1 August Update. We have updates that come through the "Store" app. This is one of the reasons (granted, not the primary one) why the uptake of Windows 8.x is now slower than Vista's uptake [infoworld.com] some ~2 years post-RTM, and why Windows 7 is gaining market share, at the expense of XP and Vista. Companies don't want this model and the headaches that go along with it.
So, for Win9, just go back to a Service Pack model and make everybody happy. Yes, SPs cost a lot of money to put out, and yes MS ends up looking old-school, but the rigor with testing is (presumed to be) significantly higher than some rushed, "little" update. Windows 8.x is broken, and Microsoft keeps pitching a newer, faster cycle of feature updates, but this just proves they are incapable of properly handling such a model... Microsoft: you are not Apple, and you don't have to try to emulate them.
As for myself, so far my two Win8.1 installations (one x86, one x64) and one of 2012R2 in a VM are not showing problems from these updates... But I have only myself to blame for not waiting a few extra days. Of course, now MS will have to come up with an out-of-band fix (with even less testing) within the next ~3 weeks or will have to have 2 sets of patches for September's Patch Tuesday--one for those who haven't uninstalled these updates and one for those who have. Pure stupidity...
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At least with Service Packs you knew that it was complicated and had a lot of updates to install, and were aware it could hose the machine. I've come to expect Microsoft's monthly updates be trouble-free, because they are almost every single occasion.
Mostly trouble-free (Score:2)
Which is kind of the problem, because it is trouble free so it's kind of easy to get complacent about them.
I kind of wish they would create cumulative update bundles that could be installed the old way or to machines with limited online capability. It's just not practical to track individual updates and I've found third party software that creates offline repositories to be kind of hit and miss.
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This model isn't true with Win8.x. They're putting
Best Fix (Score:2)
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Chicago pretty much did (ignoring driver flaws) ... until they added backwards compatibility.
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The state of engineering in PC recovery is awful, shame on software devs
What? You just power off your vm, roll back the storage to the appropriate snapshot, and turn it on again.
Wait - you let Windows touch your hardware? Oh, my.
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Yes I can confirm that on my Windows 7 Home Premium SP1, the 2982791 update was present and it's removable.
10 LET M$ = "Microsoft" (Score:3, Informative)
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Developers remix (Score:2)
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WTG Microsoft. You should be glad that platforms are not part of your core mission.