Ask Slashdot: How Do You To Tell Your Client That His "Expert" Is an Idiot? 384
Esther Schindler writes "It's a danger for any consultant, and for most inter-departmental internal project staff: To get the work done, you need to work with someone else who supplies expertise you lack. But when the 'expert' turns out to be the wrong person how do you tell the client (or boss) that you just can't work with that individual?"
Old fashioned idea... (Score:4, Insightful)
Tell the truth?
Re:Old fashioned idea... (Score:5, Insightful)
You Don't (Score:5, Insightful)
The idea of avoiding idiots is lunacy, you make due with the cards dealt. If they have an "idiot" as an "expert", this speaks a lot about them and they probably need your help quite a bit.
If they didn't need your help, they wouldn't have hired you!
Re:You Don't (Score:5, Interesting)
Best outcome if your service is quality-based (Score:5, Insightful)
Your other option was to play nice like the dummies are advocating, and have a failed project as a black stain on your resume.
You did the right thing. So did they. Good people are incompatible with idiots.
Re:You Don't (Score:5, Insightful)
Maybe you should have presented YOUR solution. Telling the boss "no I won't do it" will get you nowhere. Telling him "Look at my better way of doing it" will get their attention. The best lesson I've learned in business is to never take a problem to my boss unless I bring with me a solution to solve it. If you can't solve the problem, find someone who can, or else the boss will. Business needs are not going to change.
Re:You Don't (Score:5, Insightful)
A lot of times there is NO solution:
- problem is badly described,
- idiot expert promises quick, simple solution and explaining why it won't work takes an excessive amount of time or knowledge that the client doesn't have,
- idiot expert knows client from college,
- idiot expert lives next door and you work offshore from South America,
- client company is populated by alpha males who like quick decisions and never back down,
- a combination of the above (I have first hand knowledge about this situation).
Sometimes the best option is to watch the explosion from far away enough that you're not killed and near enough to be the first responder.
Re:You Don't (Score:4, Informative)
So you go back to step 1: the problem is badly described. The Systems Development Lifecycle dictates that you, as the new help solve the problem. Start at wherever there is trouble. In the scenario you describe, it looks like we need to go back to step one fix the root problem: it is badly described. We cannot build any system to high user satisfaction that is badly described. One can only start over and build from scratch. If that's not possible, we will have to break the problem down into manageable parts and dig deeper for root causes and solutions.
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The guy who described it doesn't think it's badly described. See the 5th point above.
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Totes adorbs!
FYI, some of the best and brightest to ever walk this Earth were sacked for expressing this very sentiment.
If you find yourself in this situation, don't be a hero to anyone but yourself. If you have a better way, keep it to yourself, find investors and become an employer.
The problem with "solutions" is that they undermine the abilities of others. If this is deemed necessary in your current position, then you're simply better off saying "thank you for your time" and walking away NDA free.
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With some idiots no amount of money can pay for the amount of grief you will get.
Re:You Don't (Score:4, Interesting)
Sadly, educating the "idiot" often is part of the "job description" -- wanted or not --- and with enough patience or tact, you usually can prevail.
If not, the old adage applies: beware of what you ask for, you might just get it!
Re:You Don't (Score:5, Insightful)
Someone caught doing that should be sued.
For what, exactly? If you're coming in as an outside consultant, you typically don't have much political leverage to resolve problems, because you're probably not going to be around for long enough. Often the most effective tool you do have is to attach a dollar amount to how much mess a given problem is creating. If this is done honestly and the amounts are agreed up-front and openly, there is nothing unethical about it whatsoever. After all, on a fixed price contract, working with fools will substantially increase the amount of effort required to get good results, and it will make the work less pleasant, and both of those things do carry a premium.
Of course, what you're really hoping is for is not for the client to just accept the higher fee. Ideally, you want the client to instead ask you why something is getting more expensive, so you can explain not just that there's something you don't like but also why it's bad for your client. You want them to decide that the consequences of continuing with it aren't worthwhile so they change course.
Re: You Don't (Score:4, Interesting)
I think I speak for everyone here when saying...I would really like to read that report.
Re:Old fashioned idea... (Score:4, Insightful)
> Be as diplomatic as possible, but completely
> factual and provide as much evidence as possible.
Yup. The best way to win an argument is to start out by being right. Being polite saves your ass in case it turns out you're not.
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It's slightly bizarre but sometimes people cannot see that they're being inconsistent.
I wish I'd written it down because it was a perfect example of this - I was approached to make a change to some functionality.
I said - but if we do A then B happens.
To which they said "but we can do C" (which did solve B)
I said - but if we do C then D happens
To which they said "but we can do E" (which did solve D)
I said - but if we do E then F happens
To which they said "but we can do G (which did solve F) except that G was
Re:Old fashioned idea... (Score:5, Insightful)
Know the important facts before you start:
Is the idiot related to anybody? Does he play golf with the CEO? Does he have dirt on somebody?
You can bet the 'idiot' has something.
Re:Old fashioned idea... (Score:4, Funny)
Nice to test the political waters but there are lot of just clueless sociopathic idiots that get fat consulting contracts, then spew nonesense until your ears bleed.
Some idiots are lucky. It's like the old adage that nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious.
OTOH, Cousin Ernie may have gotten the gig for reasons that don't meet the test of credulity, either. Never leave to conspiracy that which can be explained by sloth.
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Hah, its funny you say that, because I ran into a similar situation working for a somewhat niche but well-known and respected website with many established customers. What happened was that we were bought out by an obscure advertising shit-peddler, and immediately came the MBAs telling us about web 2.0 and how the things on our site were rendered too small. One of the sonofabitches actually said, " When people see small things on your screen, they think small. Think BIG! 16-point text and 500-pixel padding
Re:Old fashioned idea... (Score:5, Funny)
Oh, come on, you made this up.
Nobody on slashdot would believe such a load of.....
oh, wait, ah never mind.
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Re:Old fashioned idea... (Score:5, Insightful)
You're facing a problem here:
Your boss hired this person, most likely for a lot of money. He has to justify that expense. Admitting now that he fell for a snakeoil peddler is not something that will further his career.
Re:Old fashioned idea... (Score:5, Interesting)
You're facing a problem here:
Your boss hired this person, most likely for a lot of money. He has to justify that expense. Admitting now that he fell for a snakeoil peddler is not something that will further his career.
Right, and for that reason asking your boss to choose between yourself and golden boy (aka, 'the expert') is a loosing proposition. If you feel you absolutely can't work with the new guy under any circumstances find a new job and then quit your current one. Be polite about it and don't tell them it's because of the expert if you can at all avoid it, just give them some blurb about 'personal reasons' or that you feel 'your career is stalling but that you have grown as a professional at this company... blah blah blah....' management loves that sort of verbal diarrhoea. Leave your boss to fall on his face with the new guy or succeed (it is after all possible that you are wrong). One thing is for sure, nobody will derive any advantage from an acrimonious dissolution of your employment relationship, least of all you. Another poster here suggested being blunt about your gripe. I have to disagree since I have always thought that making an angry speech where you go into details about how you feel other employees or management are a bunch of morons when you quit your job is a bloody stupid idea since I am generally not in favour of burning bridges. Of course other people's experiences with bridge burning may be more positive than mine.
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Its Easy (Score:4, Funny)
If its your last day on the job. Just say, "You're an idiot and so is that moron you hired."
Just remember though, burning bridges isn't always a good thing.
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If its your last day on the job. Just say, "You're an idiot and so is that moron you hired."
Just remember though, burning bridges isn't always a good thing.
And the last day should be the first day you find out that the client takes the advice of an idiot (so many consultant jokes... must resist).
Seriously, if a client wont listen then dump the client. They'll cost more money than they bring in over the long run, they'll definitely cost way too much in headaches.
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If you bill for time and materials, the headaches turn in to more cash.
Re:Its Easy (Score:5, Insightful)
If you bill for time and materials, the headaches turn in to more cash.
Not really, you spend all your time working on a project that's doomed to failure because the client wont listen. When it does fall through you cop the blame and the idiot client tells everyone at the golf club how useless you are. This is what I mean by "in the long term", what you're proposing is short term gain with no consideration of long term effects.
If you don't understand how important reputation is as a consultant, you've never been a consultant.
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Re:Its Easy (Score:5, Informative)
Terrible advice. There is always money in confusion as long as you write the contract properly, which should always be the case.
Because contract have never been torn up in court.
I used to know a consultant like this. Would write incredibly one sided contracts, still 100% legal but very one sided, which only idiots would sign. It worked for a while but when one project fell through this idiot client hired a non-idiot lawyer and he lost more than he earned in his career. House, investments, car, even furniture. The guy went from driving a Porsche 911 (not cheap in Oz) to a old Huyandai Getz in a matter of days and hand to declare bankruptcy just to keep the Getz.
Writing unfair contracts is an easy way to get sued. Even fair contracts can land you in a lot of shit.
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As long as it's a legal contract it can be as 'unfair' as you can get them to sign.
'Fair' is not a legal term and issues related to fairness should be handled in contract negotiation.
That said 'legal contract' is not a simple subject. Consult a competent shyster.
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All related to 'legal contract'. Like I said: consult a competent shyster.
Re:Its Easy (Score:5, Insightful)
Actual judges will side against you if you are the one writting the contract. So if you think you can commit fraud by writing a sh*tty contract then you are due for a rude awakening.
Re: (Score:3)
WTF? Where did I say fraud?
All I said is 'fair' is not a legal term. Make sure you have a 'legal contract', consult a shyster.
Judges will weigh any ambiguity against the person that wrote the contract. They won't throw out a legal contract because one party thinks it's 'unfair' in hindsight.
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Re:Its Easy (Score:5, Insightful)
The only bridges worth burning are the ones you wouldn't cross anyhow. Never burn a bridge you have crossed, even if it was a mistake. You have time invested.
Burn bridges before you cross them, not after.
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I don't normally burn bridges after I've crossed them.
But when I do, it's to stop Beta from following me.
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he only bridges worth burning are the ones you wouldn't cross anyhow. Never burn a bridge you have crossed, even if it was a mistake. You have time invested.
Excellent advice HornyWumpus. Some times all you have invested in it is time and time can be more valuable than any kind of monetary game you get out of it. Even if the person that is taking your place is a moron it its probably best just to keep your mouth shut and exit.
Meh, I don't care anymore (Score:4, Informative)
It is like using references, I have learned that if a company asks for them, they are idiots. Nobody EVER calls them and if they do they are basically saying "I have no clue from interviewing how good this guy is, so I got to ask someone else". Stellar performance right there!
The solution is relatively simple, see job interviews as a two way process. They are interviewing you BUT you are ALSO interviewing them. And gosh darnit, you can reject THEM as an employer!?! Shocking ain't it.
When I read a site like clients from hell, (not linking because it has an annoying nag script) I can't help but feel that a lot of the time all the problems could have been avoided if the complainer had just said at the interview "you are an idiot, I am not going to work for you".
If you spend sometime in your field you should know the warning flags. If a client/employer for instance is looking for a lead developer, the existing code base is a pile of steaming shit such as you have only seen in every single job before where the existing lead had to finally admit he needed an extra hand (translation: needed to be taken outside and shot for the good of humanity). If they are looking for a replacement team for the software project, the existing code doesn't (exist that is, what is there is maybe some scripts that on some days, does something but nobody knows what). If they are considering a rewrite, the servers are on fire and the the sys admin has slaughtered the entire office and is sniping from the rooftop.
You get to regonize the signs after a while. Does the boss spent the entire interview bitching about what gone wrong before? Translation: He is to busy still raging and hasn't yet learned from the mistake which was HIS, for hiring the wrong people.
There is no handover period because the previous guy already left? Translation: Make a sentence with rats, ships, sinking. Question: Do you want to come on board? Consideration: At least the ship is rat free.
If the ship is on fire and they are haggling over budget with the fire-fighters, translation: they spend all their money on flammable lifeboats and have nothing left for you. Another form of this is if they talk about how much money already has been sunk into the project and/or whining about recovering investment. Fact of life: money sunk into a project that has failed is lost, deal with it. A projects worth is NOT measured by how much money has been lost on it.
And hey, you can ignore all of this and think YOU are going to be the perfect employee who can deal with idiots... and I will point to you and say "this guy is going to be on a rooftop someday, sniping at the police while chewing on someone's leg". Either that... or... you are one of them... got an MBA?
Replace Idiot with Incompetent (Score:5, Interesting)
A few years later, the CEO of the parent company called wanting to know why his network was suffering intermittent downtime and demanded it be fixed immediately. I explained that his outage was caused by antiquated equipment that could not do debugging, and there was a proposal already on his desk for replacement gear. He was in a huff, but he knew I didn't mince words or advice, and that quote was signed in minutes.
While you can't always directly point to a net gain after a net loss, your experience and attitude will help define how other perceive you. You can go in quite politely, or you can be very blunt. I have been both depending on the situation.
Either way, if you can't call out losers, you'll wind up being one.
Re:Replace Idiot with Incompetent (Score:5, Insightful)
Either way, if you can't call out losers, you'll wind up being one.
I like it. That line should be elevated to "ancient chinese proverb" status.
Re:Replace Idiot with Incompetent (Score:5, Funny)
The other developer started out by saying, "Why do you use function pointers in C? Why not call the functions directly?"
At that point I looked confused and said, "That's how you do polymorphism in C, right?"
Then the manager laughed, and the other developer got frustrated and said, "but it's weird!!"
That pretty much ended the situation, although the other developer didn't talk to me for a while.
Point of the story is, when someone questions your competence, relax and use big words like polymorphism. I guess.
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I almost always ask people what polymorphism is in technical interviews for OO developers and you'd be shocked how few get it right.
Re:Replace Idiot with Incompetent (Score:4, Insightful)
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You could also have a switch/case approach and call the functions directly.
The thing is, there are some architectures (*cough*8051*cough*) out there where you could, technically, use function pointers, but due to architectural quirks, unless you really, really know what you're doint, you're likely to end up with a horrible buggy mess.
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There are several ways to do polymorphism in C, and those are both examples. See, for example, qsort(). The real answer to the question "how do you do polymorphism in C", though, is "awkwardly!" :)
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Depends on how the company is organized, if it's a wholly owned subsidiary or a conglomeration then sure, the subunit could have a CEO.
Most experts are Idiots. (Score:4, Informative)
Most experts are idiots at what they claim, but an expert at earning trust regardless of their knowledge. So be careful of these people, as they are quite aware of their lack of expertise and their fragility. Gain trust of the client first before taking on people your client trusts.
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It's never happened to me (Score:5, Insightful)
Oddly enough, I never had to work with anyone who was completely incompetent. Some didn't know squat about the technical side of things, but their business knowledge was impeccable, and that was what they brought to the table.
Maybe the problem isn't whether they're an expert in the field, but whether you know how to communicate with someone outside your field.
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Well, I have worked with a complete idiot. However, he was very good at buttering up the boss. His mode of operation was to get you to do the work with him, and then see the results. If it was successful, he would be in the boss's office claiming the success. However, if it had issue(s), you got blamed for any issues occurring, and somehow, the boss would be blind to what was going on.
Working with this person started me on learning about office politics, and peoples personalities. In terms of how to ha
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I worked with the same dude and spent a little time making sure he publicly embarrassed himself claiming something he didn't even understand.
Turns out the boss just didn't care. The fish rots from the head down.
If forget the name of the corollary to the peter principle. It basically says that once someone reaches their level of incompetence they know it and surround themselves with even more incompetent people. Whenever you enter a new job, the first thing to do is identify the head idiot and where the
Re:It's never happened to me (Score:5, Insightful)
The truth is, you can learn something from everyone, and an expert in a specific field with an IQ approaching his body temperature knows some stuff that you do not.
Re:It's never happened to me (Score:4, Funny)
Absolutely. For example how to not do something, how to injure yourself horribly, or like I saw yesterday.....
How to destroy a $60,000 Conference room table by not listening to those of us that know better.
I said several times, you have it marked off wrong you had better stop and re measure. I was told to shut up and they cut the hole, 6 inches off center.
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I'd say a $60,000 conference table was a serious sign of incompetence on the part of the executive and facilities staff . . .
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I can find you 12 foot round table made from a solid slice of black oak, four inches thick. $10K. Hurry, each table is slightly smaller then the previous.
Made by a good friends brother, who was paid by PG&E to cut down and haul off the tree.
WTF does a 60K table do? Play with your balls?
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"WTF does a 60K table do? Play with your balls?"
Makes filthy disgusting rick people feel better about themselves. When you make $300 million a year $60K for a conference table is toilet paper money.
I dont think you understand exactly how ungodly rich the 1% really are, they can buy and sell your family with the money they find in their couch cushions.
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Even if I agreed with the assessment, if they're being tasked (or tasking themselves) with technical work, insisting that they be the one to do it, and then botching it horribly, does it really matter whether or not they're good at business, or whether you're good at communicating with business people? I'd argue that it doesn't.
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Your assumption is that they were brought in for technical expertise. That may be an invalid assumption. And that is what I've usually found to be the case over the years.
Just because someone isn't a technical superstar doesn't mean they don't have valuable knowledge. Only the navel-gazing technocrati and engineers are so arrogant as to presume everyone else on the team is an idiot just because they don't "grok" the technical.
I also found it amusing that the original poster of the article is a wuss,
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"Only the navel-gazing technocrati and engineers are so arrogant as to presume everyone else on the team is an idiot just because they don't "grok" the technical."
That's not usually the case. While I agree with the basic premise that one of best assets for a consultant is to be able to communicate with -and listen to, somebody out of her field, it's also true that the one that hires a technical expert on a field he himself is not a technical expert but still confronts the expertise of the consultant *is* a
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Slashvertisement (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't know, but I'm sure if I read the free eBook that the article is advertising I'd become a management expert literally overnight. !!! DOWNLOAD NOW !!!
Wait, what? (Score:2)
If I don't want to work on a project with an "expert", as part of my job, but I don't want to work on the project anymore because of something someone else is doing...I'd complain to my supervisor, then if I still wasn't happy, I would quit my job. If I wanted to keep my job (even if it was just to see them fail) I would manage to hobble through by doing the absolute minimum. It's not exactly controversial. How is this interesting enough to be a topic?
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Because not every one is a passive aggressive person, and they want a good solution?
call it BETA and walk away (Score:5, Funny)
Strange - Seems TFA answers TFQ (Score:5, Insightful)
Depends on the sequence of events... (Score:2)
never figured this out (Score:2)
This happened in two different contracting jobs. In one, first indication of possible trouble was when the contractor in question put all of his certificates of course completion (framed) up in his office. Second indication was when he tried to convince our client that he should manage the rest of the contractors. Eventually, we stayed, he didn't. The bad news was that I had to untwist and make coherent all of his "solutions".
In another job, similar experience, one of our team of four complained loudly
There's a book for that. (Score:4, Funny)
Just read, Dealing with Dummies for Dummies...
Here's a suggestion (Score:3)
Figure out what you'd need to get the job done. That might be an additional person, not a replacement person in order to make up for the deficiency. There may even be someone else in the company that could "assist".
Go to your client and tell him that this is what you'd need to get the job done because you'd assumed a certain skill set.. If the client won't go for it, regretfully let him know that you're not the right person for the job under these circumstances and that his "expert" might be able to suggest someone else. Or maybe you can and then you've solved the problem, even if you're not the solution yourself.
In any case, walk in with a solid proposal for fixing the problem that doesn't paint the "expert" as a complete idiot - just say that the skill sets don't line up right - and be prepared to lose the client. But if it's really that bad, you might be better off losing it now than getting dragged into a giant fight over breach of contract or cost overruns.
This is your job .... (Score:3, Informative)
As a consultant it is *my job* to work with the client and their people. Incompetent or not, it is still my job to work with them.
If you are complaining about this as a consultant, you have no business being a consultant.
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Mod up. I have been contracting since 1992 and a large part of my job is play nice with all sorts of unattractive people. I often wonder how many of them managed to get hired in the first place, but that really does not matter. They were in place when I got here and most likely they will be here when I leave. Smile and cash the checks, or go get a job where you can happily pick fights w/your coworkers.
Re:This is your job .... (Score:4)
It gets to the question of what you think your job actually is. Though if the job description said must work well with others or something and most of them do these day then yes to some degree part of your job is playing nice. You are called a human resource for a reason, at least some of your value depends on you being compatible with the existing infrastructure.
Companies don't hire people that would require them reorganize the rest of their technical team unless the do; but in that case you usually know when you have been brought in specifically to transition/transform some group. So it very much is your job to do what you need to do in order to get the strategic mission accomplished even when you know there are more elegant solutions; sometime you have to just accommodate what the rest of the team can do.
Here is a story from when I was pretty recently out of school. I had been working with the firm during much of my college career and they had promoted to a full time position on a different team after I graduated. So I knew people there and already had bit of trust. Like most places there were talented and not so talented, the dedicated and no so dedicated and the various combinations you can make of those. The IT director assigned one of my shall we say lessor performing co-workers a task to automate some reports a customer wanted. They data needed to come from two different systems. I heard drips and drabs in various high level meetings but it eventually became apparent to me this persons 'solution' was essentially to have the one system generate PDFs with some of the data and the other system OCR (the PDFs were rendered as images) before import to write the ultimate report. This was all stapled together with ftp scripts, cron jobs, and vbscripts on the windows side run from task scheduler.
I went to the director and explained, that our development group should really be doing this, as we have perfectly functional middleware with all the necessary adapters to do this all we really need to do is configure the connectors , write the queries and generate the reports. I went on this would be more reliable would be easy to run the job whenever instead of having to want for multiple schedules to converge and the hours of head banging that would come when someone eventually has to troubleshoot the mess would be avoided.
His answer was that me and the rest of the team certainly could do it better and in half the time; but none of us had even that time, were all doing things that he considered higher priorities and more business critical already. This was the guy he had under-scheduled *could* do it and it just needed to work/.
Now I suppose you'd argue I should have continued to protest out of professional pride; insisting that could not just sit by while a kludgey brittle mess was build by an incompetent where I could instead create a proper robust IT solution. Instead I realized that the director was doing both me and the other guy a favor. For the other guy it was letting do something useful so the CXO folks did not decided they could cut some dead weight, for me it was ensuring after putting in a day of doing good work earning my salary I got to go have a beer with some friends instead of spending the remain nights that week at the office trying to get something done I really did not have time for. Is that really a "sociopath attitude" or is your attitude psychopathic?
Let us know... (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm using the slas^H^H^H^H a website's beta and its designers have the same issue.
Near as I can tell, they don't plan on listening....
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I hope not, because you and your ilk are wrong.
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I'm using the slas^H^H^H^H a website's beta and its designers have the same issue.
Near as I can tell, they don't plan on listening....
But they pretended to listen. And the OP should do the same and pretend to respect the consultant, document the shortcomings and make it clear that slas^H^H^H^H the people in charge of the project are wrong.
You have TWO choices here. (Score:4, Insightful)
Come on, be honest. But before you open your mouth, THINK carefully.
I have a policy of ALWAYS assuming that any problem somebody brings me is MINE to fix. I most likely caused it and it's my responsibility to fix it. Problems are not always my fault in the end, but until I've proven to myself and more importantly to the person who brought the problem to my attention that it's NOT my fault I'm taking personal responsibility to see it gets fixed.
With that in mind, before you go off and start calling somebody you don't know well an idiot to his face you better be darn sure. And before you go tell anybody else about your suspicions they are an idiot you better be doubly darn sure you can back up the claim with absolute, you'd bet the farm on it, proof. Otherwise, you are going to be shot full of holes because YOU are the idiot.
Given that you obviously are NOT the subject matter expert (or why would you need one given to you) I would say that what we most likely have is a personality clash between you and the expert. There is a non zero chance this is not true, but unless you are ready to make yourself into the subject matter expert and PROVE it, you really have two choices...
First choice: You can suck it up, stop complaining and start working with the expert regardless of how you feel about them. You don't have to like them, but you need to respect them and stay professional about any disagreements. This will involve trying to figure out how you can best approach this person and doing things you would consider wasting time by taking their advice. Get their advice in hard copy, just to CYA in the future, but do your best to play in the sandbox with them.
Second choice: You can go in, guns blazing and shoot the idiot full of holes, preferably in public in front of management. If you are wrong, you will go down in a blaze of glory, fully burning the bridge behind your hasty departure. If you are right, and manage to prove it without stepping on a land mine in the process, nobody will ever want to work with you and the disgraced "expert" is still likely to be there, possibly on your team, which puts you back to your first choice where you will eventually have to work with them. When they start like this, such relationships don't go well and your life will be a mess.
So, I suggest you suck it up and do what it takes to work with the idiot and if you really just cannot make it work, look for another job.
You work in IT but don't know how to handle this? (Score:3, Funny)
[EOM]
With a list (Score:2)
and examples.
Reminds of the time I was talking to an 'Expert Computer Engineer'. I had to explain binary to him.
prove him wrong (Score:2)
You don't tell your client his expert is an idiot. (Score:2)
You find another client.
Or, as Sarah Silverman said in her standup (Score:5, Insightful)
As a consultant.... (Score:2)
You need to stop worrying about whether your expert is an "idiot" or not. The only question is: are they qualified to provide the input, or do the thing they needed to be brought in for? If yes, then if necessary remind them and the client what the scope limits are on what the expert is needed for, show the concerns proof that the expert was going a bit out of scope, and point out their "signs of incompetence" as specific problems/action points for the expert to address, or point out on how you know
Job interview (Score:4, Interesting)
About 2 years later they flamed out in a huge stock and legal disaster. The lawsuits and criminal investigations are still moving along after many many years. A critical part of their disaster was their complete inability to deliver what they promised to their biggest customers/investors. Not that they were unable to deliver exactly what was promised but basically deliver anything.
Another PhD CS "Expert" I later dealt with was a fan of some stupid browser and insisted that any development be done for that browser and not others.
But my favorite PhD "Expert" shoot down was one that worked for a company that I worked for, she was an expert in DSP. But after years of working in a dark room somewhere basically everything she knew could be purchased in a chip. In the end she was doing paperwork audits.
I am not saying that PhD CS people are all useless. I know many who are damn good and doing cool useful things. Just that many people in the business world are blinded by a PhD, they assume that the person has some sort of magical ability to make things happen. A PhD basically indicates that they know a whole lot about some certain thing at a certain time. If your business is that thing and their knowledge is recent then great. The reality is that things move so damn quick in the CS world that anyone who is good is always keeping up to date and doubtfully has any paper to show that.
Re:Job interview (Score:5, Insightful)
A PhD basically indicates that they know a whole lot about some certain thing at a certain time. If your business is that thing and their knowledge is recent then great. The reality is that things move so damn quick in the CS world that anyone who is good is always keeping up to date and doubtfully has any paper to show that.
That's not the key of a PhD. Of course while getting the grade you learned a lot about a very specific field, the most important part you prove (and have learned) by gaining a PhD is that you can work independently, and that you can set up and execute a research project successfully. The latter is what you should hire a PhD for. The first helps you decide which individual to choose (i.e. the one whose background matches what you intend them to do).
Re: (Score:3)
As a finicky developer this burns my soul. A simple proof of this is to look at the various leaked code bases for highly successful products that have appeared on the net over the years. Generally they are of extre
Oh Hell (Score:4, Interesting)
This happened to me. The boss man had "taken the initiative" and brought in a new consultant. The guy was an idiot. He opened tickets with the software vendor asking things like how to set the date on a Linux system. He told one of my co-workers that if the root password was lost, he'd need to boot with a rescue disk and do some trickery with /etc/shadow. Tasked with building a cluster, he failed miserably blaming it on poor documentation and other nonsense. I tried many times to tell the boss man that his consultant was an idiot but was told I was being "combative" despite the guy's obvious failings.
It all worked out though. As this guy's contract was being renewed, we asked him to show what he'd done. All the lies he'd told the boss man evaporated when it was revealed that his cluster was just a cluster fuck, his vaunted "remote management" system was really just a "yum install webmin" (left unconfigured), and he'd informed another co-worker not to reveal where he was sitting.
Even years after, the boss man still insisted that the contractor "had fooled everyone."
So no, if the boss is an idiot, you may as well just distance yourself from the idiot. Let him dig his own grave.
Re: (Score:3)
He told one of my co-workers that if the root password was lost, he'd need to boot with a rescue disk and do some trickery with /etc/shadow
While it is a strange thing to say, what is incorrect about it? If:
1. you've lost the root password
2. sudo is not configured (disappointingly common)
3. single user mode is configured to require entering the root password
The fastest way to regain root access is to blank it in /etc/shadow. A boot disk is one way to accomplish this. Others would be mounting the root partition on another server (in virtual environments) or using the backup software to restore a shadow file with a blank or known root password
Most likely you'll just have to deal with them... (Score:5, Interesting)
I spent a few years working customer service handling orders for manufacturing company. One particularly customers was a consistent problem. This company believed one of their personnel shat gold bricks, but I realized right off that they were incompetent and used lies & intimidation to cover this up.
This person would routinely fax their orders at the end of the day (right before they would leave) without confirming that they actually sent me the files necessary to start their order, and that their orders were almost always "rush" orders with very very short turn around times. Another thing this person would do, would be to call me up, tell me they had an order and ask me what the latest day they would need to receive the order by a specific date and time. I would tell them, then they would wait well past this final submittable date, submit their order and then claim that I had promised to turn around the product by that time. Over the years, the turn around time necessary to complete their orders shrunk to impossible expectations and their customer began getting upset as my customer started blaming me personally for the delays.
The irritating part, is that whenever I some how failed to live up to this person's errors (i.e., I was unable to cover for them), they would call up my boss and complain about me. My boss only believed half their bullshit, but it was still enough to impact my career.
Unfortunately for them, one of their customers wasn't an idiot, and had remembered me when he came along to our plant for a facility inspection prior to us beginning production of their product. This customer set up a meeting between our companies and asked me point blank when I received the purchase order, when I received the files and when I delivered the product. Thankfully, I had records of the time and date of every purchase order that company had ever sent, along with records of the time and date of receipt of every file to begin production, as well as the delivery date of the product to their warehouse.
It turned out that the end customer was sending the purchase orders to our problem person up to three weeks before the problem person would send me the PO and files. The problem person would sit on the file for weeks before submitting it to their production and farming out our part to us. The problem person ended up losing their company around $2million in sales yearly when they lost their client.
We ended up being directly contracted by the end customer to continue manufacturing our part of their product.
Hand gestures work best (Score:5, Funny)
You get them both in a meeting, and when the "expert" presents an idea, you point your index finger at your temple and rotate it in a circle around your ear.
Rolling your eyes and bursting out laughing is also good.
When the expert starts his powerpoint presentation, sigh loudly, raise one butt cheek and give an audible fart. Look around the room and say "Is he serious?" in a stage whisper.
There, I think that's a good start.
Tell em how you feel (Score:3)
What is it with programmers? Are they all arrogant?
You don't (Score:3)
I was a consultant for a while and trained more than a few FNGs. I would always advise them that the choice was theirs, but that the chances of a positive result were slim to none if they took their concerns to the customer. Sure enough, I saw several otherwise excellent consultants get shown the door because of this exact scenario.
Part of your responsibility as a consultant is to "work magic". If you run into roadblocks, you find ways around them and that includes the occasional professional vegetable. What typically isn't in your domain is giving advice on personnel, unless you were specifically hired to do exactly that. In the end, almost nobody wants to be told that one of their chosen workers is sub-par. It's negative, it's dangerous, and it's usually pointless.
Just work around them, document everything, and communicate that sort of stuff with your own manager behind closed doors. You should also be sure to have customer "witnesses" in your emails and meetings. Team distribution lists and direct managers are excellent for that.
Re: (Score:2)
Credentials? The world is full of credentialed idiots.
Feed the idiot rope, let him hang himself.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:It's even worse when the "Boss" is an idiot... (Score:5, Insightful)
...and doesn't know the first thing about the job the people under him do.
Actually this is NOT a reason to trash your boss. I've had a number of managers who didn't have a clue how to do my job who where extremely effective and great to work for. We had a mutual understanding and respect for each one's roll. With one, he didn't have a clue how to design a network and stand up the equipment because it was MY job to do that for him. He just pointed me to the project and we would discuss the details he needed to know (cost, schedule etc) and I did what was required. He knew I was going to tell him what I really thought about the cost and schedule and trusted me to do the work within the cost and schedule I gave him. I knew he would insulate me from the management garbage and wasn't going to throw me to the wolves if there was some unexpected slip or overrun. We did status reports on large projects and he would stop by regularly to talk about things, but he NEVER wanted to tell me how to do this or that, and if we where behind schedule or over cost I WAS TELLING HIM about it. We trusted each other to do their jobs and it worked great.
So, I actually think that the most effective bosses don't have to know all the ins and outs of what his employees do. But what they DO need is the ability to surround themselves with people who DO KNOW what needs to be done and empowering them to do their jobs. Bosses that know all the details are sometimes way to eager to try and micromanage their underlings and it takes a rare talent to let your employees do the work for you. I'll ALWAYS take a manager with the talent to delegate over one with perfect domain knowledge.
Re: (Score:3)
You are correct!
I wish I had some mod points but unfortunately I don't
I have some! Oh, wait. Crap.
Re: (Score:3)
In my experience, a good boss who isn't technically minded will take advice and just let the tech-heads get on with it, and look forward to a viable result*. If there's more than one boff in the mix, a good boss will take regular updates and stir the pot as necessary. Sometimes that will involve some firing and hiring of new blood. If it takes an unsolicited approach by an employee to make the boss aware outside of a regular departmental meeting that something is wrong, then he isn't a very effective boss.
Re: (Score:2)
Fact is most degree holding people are morons.
And you are the smart one who does not have credentials.