Smartphone Mugging More Popular Than Ever 285
A reader writes with this snippet from gizmodo: "The Associated Press reports that smartphone robberies now account for nearly half of all robberies in San Francisco, as well as an impressive 40 percent here in New York City. And the numbers aren't just high, they're getting higher fast. In Los Angeles, smartphone robberies are up 27 percent from last year, with no signs of slowing down. The thefts come in all varieties as well. Victims have reported having their phones—iPhones in particular (surprise!)—yanked out of their hands while talking, snatched just as public transit reaches a stop, or even taken at gunpoint." When I was relieved at gunpoint of my (very, very dumb) phone a few years ago in Philadelphia (very, very dumb), it made for a lousy evening. Have you been robbed (or accosted) like this? If so, where?
Serial Numbers (Score:5, Interesting)
All of these phones know their serial numbers. Just make it totally impossible to ever register a stolen serial number for new service and this should slow way down.
Re:Serial Numbers (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Serial Numbers (Score:5, Interesting)
They can just be sold in another country.
Or they can be sold in San Jose, California, where it is legal to steal phones. My wife's iPhone was stolen, and when she called the SJPD, she was told that "We don't do cell phone thefts, just download the insurance form from our website. <click>"
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Did you call their emergency number? Even if you did, they would have you report the incident online or in person. Hell, they did it for a $20 bicycle (+$5 lock) I had just purchased. I did not even have the serial number to report. They never found it of course, by they sure did take a complaint, which would be counted in all sorts of statistics.
Just to make sure, I just tried to file a complaint at sjpd.org. I see a specific category called Cell Phone (asking for Brand, Model Serial number
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Kill them (Score:4, Interesting)
I wonder how long it would last if the muggers started ending up dead. San Fran is a "gun free" zone. So the perps know their victims are probably not packing.
Sure, it's just a cell phone and not worth taking someone's life. But that's not the issue. The issue is that the scum trying to take it from you definitely thinks a cell phone is worth taking YOUR life.
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>San Fran is a "gun free" zone
It's also a cop-free zone. When I got my car broken into there, I tried reporting it to the police, but they didn't want to hear about it: "We don't do police reports over the phone. You have to come in to a station." So I drive (broken window an all) to a station, and ring the damn doorbell for an hour until I finally get a cop to come out to talk to me. He doesn't care either, and says he doesn't understand why I'm reporting the crime to him. (I dunno - because it was a cr
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Educate yourself: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q__P1jqaGqg [youtube.com]
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Yes, because youtube is a certified truth holder! everything on youtube is true!
I don't know which one is more credible:
1) the grainy, poorly edited video taped from a Eastern European news broadcast that shows that the watch has been stolen
2) the "unbiased evidence" from NBC assisted by the White House people that shows that the watch has not been stolen
Since the same administration had evidence of WMDs in Iraq, which was relayed by NBC as well as other "credible" medias, I'm still on the fence.
I think you've got the wrong idea. (Score:3, Informative)
It sounds like you and your wife think the police are there to serve you. I can assure you this is not the role they fulfill in society.
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Re:Serial Numbers (Score:5, Funny)
Better yet, have your butler tell your lawyer to send them a letter.
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That's horrible. Most new iPhones are worth $600 minimum. Most states would consider that grand theft, since it's over $500, right?
Re:Serial Numbers (Score:4, Funny)
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And of course, the insurance company will not pay out unless you have filed a police report. But that is okay, even if they do pay out, the deductible is nearly the same cost as a new phone. Phone Insurance is almost as bad a scam as someone stealing it from you.
Re:Serial Numbers (Score:5, Interesting)
You know you can take a black-listed phone into verizon stores and they'll give you a refurb?
The story of: "I bought it on craigslist and it won't register" works wonders.
I was amazed that even worked, and pissed off at the same time. My phone was stolen out of my office, and I figured blacklisting it would bring me vengeance... wrong.
My wife's nook was stolen at the same time. She blacklisted it. Then had a book purchased on her account 6 hours later... She called in again and said wtf? They told her that whoever blacklisted it for her didn't do it (hard to find competent people).
So that gives another reason to think that blacklisting doesn't work, because the damn idiots don't punch it into their computers.
I also got a buddy at work who's from China. He has family back in China that actively engage in acquiring broken electronics. iPhones are great. Blacklisted, broken, who cares? They strip the things down and make their own refurbs good as new and resell them.
So yeah, unless Police actually crack down on this, then the only other way to curb this activity is if the phone physically blows up and kills/maims the people stealing them while people cheer on the spectacle.
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Sucks to be you, buddy.
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IMEI blacklists are widely used in Europe. The problem is that, at least in Norway, few people actually bother to have the IMEI blacklisted if the phone is stolen. I get this impression from a number of forum posts where people seem oblivious to the possibility, and also other people openly admitting to be using stolen phones without being blocked (or visited by the police, even though they use a SIM registered in their name...).
Re:Serial Numbers (Score:5, Interesting)
IMEI blacklists are widely used in Europe. The problem is that, at least in Norway, few people actually bother to have the IMEI blacklisted if the phone is stolen.
In the US the vast majority of phones are purchased thru carriers. They already have your IMEI on file.
The FCC has finally gotten the four big carriers to start blocking IMEI numbers [digitaltrends.com] of stolen phones. You simply go back to your carrier and tell them you need a new phone because your old one was stolen. They will automatically add the stolen phone to t a nation wide database of stolen phones. It takes no effort on the users part.
While new IMEIs can be programmed into stolen handsets, the thieves don't have the skills to do this, (if they did they would be in a safer more profitable line of work). They just use the stolen phone till it dies and then steal a new one. I suppose some thieves work for rings exporting their wares to foreign countries.
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Most carriers are the ones footing the bill. I wonder how many stolen phones turn over to paying accounts?
My opinion is that most are either sold for money for drugs, or they are used by drug dealers until the phone is turned off... If "bad people" are using them, chances are law enforcement wants the phones left active to see where they go.
Re:Serial Numbers (Score:4, Interesting)
Yes, but what is that duration? 20 minutes?
When my phone was stolen in a diner after walking way from it for maybe two minutes before walking back for it, I had it shut down within 10-15 minutes from another phone.
Even assuming there is a network where a standing order is made to purchase a stolen phone for use, there would still be time required for the logistics of shipping and fulfillment. I just can't see with how important and well used smart phone are, that the window for usage by drug dealers or other criminals would be large enough to be economically viable for all involved.
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If You had the sim deactivated, the phone can still be usable by simply putting in a new sim, and perhaps jail breaking the phone. The phone still has value.
When IMEI numbers of stolen phones are universally banned, stolen phones have no value.
See the difference?
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How does that work for phones with no sim card like CDMA phones with Verizon?
Re:Serial Numbers (Score:5, Informative)
CDMA phones have an equivalent id, called a MEID. [wikipedia.org]
False IMEI reports not a big problem (Score:5, Interesting)
I doubt that happens very much at all, to the point that it'd probably be a major news item if it happens.
Why?
1. IMEI numbers are currently hard to guess. They're not simple
2. No gain on the part of a seller to block a phone they just sold - indeed, odds are that the buyer can track them down to demand a refund for a *STOLEN PHONE*
3. It takes work; Most people aren't that nasty
4. If they can get that close to the phone, they might as well steal it
5. Most people wouldn't think to do it. Even divorcing couples.
Especially your specifying 'second-hand' phones. Unless it's stolen I doubt the seller is going to care; wish you luck with your new(to you) phone.
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Re:Serial Numbers (Score:4, Interesting)
While new IMEIs can be programmed into stolen handsets, the thieves don't have the skills to do this,
Ok, you seem to have little experience of how organised criminals really are. It is true, your average pickpocket/thief doesn't have the skills, but he'll know a man who does...
The current cost of the basic iphone 5 off the UK apple store is £529
Now, say, for example I'm a 'legitimate businessman' running a mobile phone repair shop and have the technical knowledge and capabilities of reprogramming the IMEI number of said stolen device to, say, that of another phone I've gotten as a trade-in. I know some of the more 'boisterous' youths nearby and say casually that I'll give them £300 for every iphone 5 (or whatever the current poseur phone of choice is) they get me, no questions asked. I reprogram them with 'legitimate' IMEI numbers from my supply of trade-in phones (which is a crime in the UK, but hey...), sell it for £450, they get monies, I get monies, customer gets a phone at what they think is a bargain price...
This is how it operates, the thieves steal these items and then pass them on up the chain to those who do have the technical capabilities to deal with them. I've been a victim of card theft, it was explained to me how well organised the system was there (person stealing the card wouldn't have been the one to use it, but might get up to a couple of hundred quid depending on card type by selling it to handler/specialist, who then organises the purchases to be made using the card in such a manner as they get the maximum usage out of it before it is blacklisted.).
Fagin may be a fictional character, but the criminal structures/fraternities Dickens wrote about still exist in merrie old London..especially 'sarth of the river'.
Re:Serial Numbers (Score:4, Interesting)
In South Africa, if you claim for a stolen phone, the insurance company will request the IMEI as part of their claim processing, and they will have the IMEI blacklisted on a database shared by all the local mobile operators.
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Just make it totally impossible to ever register a stolen serial number for new service and this should slow way down.
You'll stop the idiots who steal phones and keep them for personal use.
Everything else will just end up overseas.
End result: thieves will make a little bit less money selling to the black market, in order to cover the overhead from exporting the phones.
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IIRC, CDMA and our form of LTE is not compatible overseas. Only a few smart phones are marketed as global phones. I used to have a BB that was made for that purpose.
Phones that are compatible overseas are not the majority of the market.
A lot of iPhones will work overseas. (Score:3, Informative)
IIRC, CDMA and our form of LTE is not compatible overseas.
That may be so but quite a lot of the iPhones made now have GSM chips in them that work just fine for data and voice overseas - all of the AT&T iPhones ever made, and every iPhone since the iPhone 4 will work overseas with data (even the ones sold to work with CDMA carriers like Verizon).
Not being able to use LTE in some countries is to really that much a roadblock to selling them.
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Re:Serial Numbers (Score:4, Interesting)
These are smartphones though. I don't think it's been possible to change the IMEI of an iDevice since the original Edge iPhone. Even then the program used (ziPhone) could fail spectacularly and brick the device. No experience with Android devices here so I cannot comment on the feasibility of reprogramming those IMEIs. It's basically impossible on iDevices though unless the thieves have access to exploits and tools that the jailbreak community do not.
Capcha: mugging
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Re:Serial Numbers (Score:5, Insightful)
Unfortunately, there are people in the criminal world who specialize in doing things other criminals cannot; chop shop operators reduce cars to parts for resale, fences resell stolen property, money launderers of various sorts make ill-gotten gains look legitimate. I suspect that were IMEI blacklisting to become ubiquitous, we would see criminals specializing in reprogramming IMEIs. Might slow the torrent of theft, though.
Even aminor cost increase can reduce the market (Score:3)
Even a 10% cost increase will result in a much smaller market for it. Modding a PS or XBox back in the day was fairly easy, only required a 'bit' of soldering, yet I can say that 99% of consoles were never modded*. It was a mostly effective level of protection.
Making unlocking a $600 cell phone require a couple hour's work and $100 of parts and such phones will mostly be safe from normal theft.
*Slashdot crowds may differ.
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On most devices, IMEI numbers are traditionally burned into a soldered IC, are non-reprogrammable chips, and the numbers cannot be changed, without replacing the phone's main PCB.
There won't be criminals specializing in reprogramming, if the cost to reprogram is so close to the revenue to be gotten from reanimating a stolen phone
this is completely false. Don't spread bad info. Google "how to reprogram your IMEI" I'm not sure the legality of posting a link to this kind of stuff. Please educate yourself before making false blanket statements.
Re:Serial Numbers (Score:5, Insightful)
So breaking South Korean law is a legitimate reason to change your IMEI number? Do you also put fake number plates on your car when you drive there?
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Re:Serial Numbers (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Serial Numbers (Score:5, Interesting)
In Australia all the carriers refer to a single database of stolen phones (via IMEI number), and smartphone theft (mugging style) is almost non-existant here.
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Just make it totally impossible to ever register a stolen serial number for new service and this should slow way down.
Why? And turn away a new contract?
Back in the 90's this was the norm. They'd match the ESN against a database of reportedly stolen numbers. They don't give a flying fuck anymore and would rather get a new subscriber and contract than do anything to protect the lives and well being of the peons, err... current subscribers already locked into contracts.
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The parts still have value.
Re:Serial Numbers (Score:4, Interesting)
Serial No. You mean IMEI? Imei can be changed. MAC address? MAC address can be changed. SIM Lock? SIM lock can be unlock.
If you just search less than 15 minutes. You can find a horde of tools available at your disposal. They even have tools that can changed the active frequency of your baseband-RF processor so it operate in the frequency of your choice. I saw a SIM card that when you put onto locked phone. This is automatically unlock it for you. They sell this SIM card for about US$ 5 for 10 times running (before the program self destruct on the SIM card).
This can be seen "clearly" in my country. Where they still sell Blackberry 8310 as a new phone. This is the phone that counterfeited in china. And they came with a tools where you can change all of the above. The store that sell it even make a promise that the BB PIN code wouldn't be blocked by BB server at RIM office (or you can get full refund if they can't make it unblock).
Especially if you able to get into China phone BBS. They even teach you a lot of stuff that supposed to be done in the phone factories only. (Even unbricking a bricked phone using JTAG connection). They trade the latest firmware, schematics, tool, tips there.
So blocking Serial No. is easy to circumvent.
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The providers don't care - stolen phones generate revenue the same as a non stolen, and as a bonus, the old owner needs a new phone (including a contract extension, of course...)
as long as there is no law that *forces* them to block stolen phones, they wont do shit to stop it.
Profiting from stolen goods? Sounds like a crime to me, even if it is a bit of leap...
No comments? (Score:2, Funny)
What, everyone got their smartphone robbed?
Never had that experience... (Score:5, Funny)
Most folks take one look at my crappy company-issued Blackberry Curve, and go look for better pickings (figuring that anyone still carryiong one of these probably doesn't have any money either).
I guess even criminals have more self-respect these days than to be seen trying to fence a entry-level crackberry.
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It's worth negative money. You need to pay somebody to take it from you.
Re:Never had that experience... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Never had that experience... (Score:4, Funny)
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I'm sure many people like them, but a big reason for an iPhone is status symbol, so include faux iPhone gel covers for trac phones.
Re:Never had that experience... (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Never had that experience... (Score:4, Interesting)
Not so in South America. I've had my n95, n900 and a number of Androids liberated from my person. It's just recently they "say" they're going to enforce a stolen IEMI database, but monthly untold hundreds of people get hurt over smartphone strong arm theft and some killed. An N900 looks mighty shiny in Bogota.
Bricked by Company? (Score:2)
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It is completely ineffective in Europe. Those anti-theft applications sometimes work though, taking pics of the criminals. Most of the time the police cannot help though, because the law in Denmark at least does not allow the police to search an entire apartment block. GPS is not accurate enough to show which apartment the phone is in.
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It is completely ineffective in Europe. Those anti-theft applications sometimes work though, taking pics of the criminals. Most of the time the police cannot help though, because the law in Denmark at least does not allow the police to search an entire apartment block. GPS is not accurate enough to show which apartment the phone is in.
Will the newer location services help?
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If they did that, they couldn't charge the thief for a new contract, and you for early termination.
Re:Bricked by Company? (Score:5, Interesting)
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It's not about winning points for reelection, it's about giving the perfect blowjob to their corporate masters. Teeth-scraping in the form of "forcing" corporations to do anything isn't going to help these politicians.
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And they make money when the person who stole the phone opens an account. Or, more likely, the phone will change hands 2 or 3 times before someone tries to activate it.
"I bought this phone on ebay!" (Probably true.)
What's the company going to do? Launch an investigation? Fat chance. Do you think Barney Fife is going to fly in from Mayberry to investigate? Fat chance.
Thieves don't care about serial numbers (Score:2)
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Steve Martin's solution (Score:2)
Just barf on it, and they'll find someone else to rob.
US won't do IMEI blacklists (Score:5, Informative)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Mobile_Equipment_Identity#Blacklist_of_stolen_devices [wikipedia.org]
Hey, how about that. An existing solution. It's not perfect, but it'd make it a bit harder than just throwing the iPhone on craigslist - especially since they'd have to modify the sticker on the phone as well, and if they didn't, it'd be proof the phone was stolen.
Let's not forget that the reason these people steal phones is because there's a market - plenty of other people happy to get a phone cheap off craigslist.
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Let's not forget that the reason these people steal phones is because there's a market - plenty of other people happy to get a phone cheap off craigslist.
They don't just sell stolen phones on Craigslist: I paid $35 for an iPhone that came with lots of music and cool pictures and the seller said it was not stolen. It was a real bargain because I was able to trade some of the pictures for a discount membership on nakedgirlfriend.com and I also used the music to prepare a nice mixtape for my neighbor's quinceañera.
Simple...just buy an Android phone... (Score:5, Funny)
Oh well, I have karma to burn.....
http://www.theiphonespot.net/muggers-dont-want-android-tend-to-go-for-iphone-owners/ [theiphonespot.net]
"A pair of would-be robbers targeting Columbia students in upper Manhattan seem to be rather picky as they prowl. Twice at 526 114th St., and once at 556 114th St., the suspects demanded the victims hand over their iPhones, police said. The first victim complied, but the second only had a Droid, according to police. The thieves apparently didn't want a Droid â" so they took cash instead."
Re:Simple...just buy an Android phone... (Score:5, Funny)
I guess this wasn't the Droid they were looking for.
IMEI based locking rather than blacklists (Score:3)
Obviously not everyone would want it (ie people who switch sims etc) but for a lot of people it would make sense as a default.
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Why not just install Micro Explosive Devices (MED's) in each phone. Some bastard steals your phone, you use your keybob to blow his head, hand or other weapon off.
Wow, if you think getting your cell phone through airport security is a hassle now, just wait until you try it with one of those.
Not to mention the inevitability of someone eventually figuring out the remote-trigger mechanism, and then broadcasting the detonate sequence and blowing the gonads off of 90% of the population...
apples stance (Score:2)
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Simply put Apple could nearly completely kill the theft market for iPhones, similarly to how integrated ignition immobilizers have drastically cut hotwire thefts of late model cars. If a reported iPhone would stop functioning as a smart phone (still allowing emergency calls) if someone attempted to connect it with an Apple service (app store, maps, etc) the market for stolen iPhones would evaporate overnight. They could also kill the whole problem with people reassigning IMEI numbers: IMEI and serial don't
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iPhone theft inclines the victim to purchase a new phone. Deterring iPhone theft would reduce that purchasing pressure. It doesn't matter to Apple if they get paid out of pocket or from an insurance payout.
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But the software industry has been telling us for years, that if we stop the thieves from thieving, they will go on and just buy the software through the proper channels.. Surely, these thieves will just give up, and go buy phones at a local store, right??
Outrageous Pricing/Profit Big Part of the Problem? (Score:2)
Opportunity Makes the Thief [skywallnet.com]: By the saturation stage, most people who really want the product have it, and thefts decline. For example, video cassette and CD players are now so common that they cost relatively little and offer few rewards to the thief; hand calculators sell for a few dollars and are mostly safe on your desk with the door open.
Yonder 'n FL (Score:2, Offtopic)
Perhaps it's time to begin integrat
What else is new? (Score:5, Funny)
In all seriousness, I read this headline initially as a story about phones inspiring ever-increasing amounts of smirky posing.
At least it's not in black and white... (Score:2)
Much like the submitter whoever would mug me for my phone would be VERY disappointed.
"Well...at least it has Texas Hold 'Em..."
News Flash! (Score:2, Insightful)
When you wave an expensive item around, you attract attention....
Also it is Apples fault for allowing Stolen iphones to continue to operate. If you were able to go home and log into your apple account and set the phone to "STOLEN" so the phone only shows on the screen "STOLEN PROPERTY, CALL XXX-XXX-XXXX to return it" the street value of them would drop to $0.00
But apple chooses to not let this ability that would be trivial to put in place to exist.
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What The Holy F-ck ... have you not heard of "Find My iPhone"?
It does *exactly* this behaviour. And I have a colleague at work who used it 2 months ago.
They located the house where the phone was, made it play a loud sound, and heard it in the front bedroom. Rang the doorbell, and got shooed away. Went to the local (Australian) police station, whereupon a detective jumped in a car, went straight back to the house, and put the heavy word on the residents.
They got the phone back.
Stealing your bank account (Score:2)
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Why? Would they have your personal password and SIM pin code?
That is what is required to log into my banking app...
Easy! (Score:3)
We need better solutions (Score:5, Interesting)
A device that 1) has a data link to the outside world, 2) has a GPS receiver, and 3) has a microphone ought to be far riskier to steal. Something is not right here.
You should be able to log into your phone account from another device and retrieve the location of the phone, Maybe listen in and record calls from your phone, too.
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If the Smartphone Bandit tried to steal my iPhone, I would smash in the face, club him over the head, and cut out his liver... His tasty liver.
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Steve Jobs would approve (of the cutting out the liver part). I'm sure you are obliged by the itunes EULA to hand it over to steve immediately.
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You forgot the Good News Everybody!
Re:BEWARE !! THE SMARTPHONE BANDIT STRIKES AT WILL (Score:5, Interesting)
I had somebody ask me to use my smartphone at a light rail station in a reasonably nice part of Denver (at 11pm). I politely refused, but I couldn't help but wonder if this person was out to 1) just make a call, which was obviously not an emergency, 2) call some sort of pay-per-call or txt number that would put $20 on my phone bill and the person would get a commission, or 3) just start running, or pull out a weapon, and steal my phone.
Is this a common tactic for stealing phones?
I couldn't help but wonder if I should have let the person use it (I'm about 6'5, 265lbs, with a 36 inch waist, I exercise, etc - so it's not like I was picked out as being the "easy target")
In the end, I concluded that I was right to refuse a stranger access to my $700 "pocket computer" which contains all of my personal information, and costs about a hundred bucks a month to keep services to, in addition to the cost of the device.
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Is this a common tactic for stealing phones?
Maybe. If you handed it to him, he'd probably run. If it was still in your pocket, instinct causes many people to reach for it to see if its still there. Even if you refuse the request, his buddy the pickpocket knows where it is now.
I'm about 6'5, 265lbs, with a 36 inch waist,
These people work in gangs. So unless you want to add 'skilled at practical self defense' to that (not all martial arts qualifies) that won't matter much. One guy grabs your phone and runs, two or three trip you, knock you down and kick the crap out of you.
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Is this a common tactic for stealing phones?
Maybe. If you handed it to him, he'd probably run. If it was still in your pocket, instinct causes many people to reach for it to see if its still there. Even if you refuse the request, his buddy the pickpocket knows where it is now.
Indeed, I was VERY careful to be aware of where my phone was for the remainder of that trip, and I be "aware" while getting off the last train and walking to my truck.
I'm about 6'5, 265lbs, with a 36 inch waist,
These people work in gangs. So unless you want to add 'skilled at practical self defense' to that (not all martial arts qualifies) that won't matter much. One guy grabs your phone and runs, two or three trip you, knock you down and kick the crap out of you.
I would not add "skilled at practical self defense against multiple attackers with nothing to lose" to my resume. I was in that situation when I was 18, and 75 lbs lighter, and I wouldn't want to play that game again. I have "good" health insurance, but it's not worth $700 to get a new set of teeth, and I also have homeowners, auto, and phon
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This way if they really are in need, then you're helping them, and if they refuse and start to walk away that's when you might want to mention it to whatever security is around.
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I used to get random schmoes on the street asking to use my phone as I pulled it out to check the time. Now I have a wristwatch and the worst I've gotten is, "Hey buddy, got the time?"
That line, "got the time", is the exact line a mugger used on me once to determine if I had a watch, before he attempted to mug me for it.
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Some stupid mugger stole my drink, but now he robs no more.
For what he thought was H2O, was H2SO4!
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Wait you have a smart phone that you keep at home, why the hell did you bother to get it then?
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And you are much more likely to have other bad things happen to you while you are broke down on some back road wandering around for help.
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that if you don't have a phone, no one can rob you for it.
Or they kick the shit out of you, or kill you because you must be lying to them. Everyone has a phone these days. Crack heads aren't known for their negotiation skills.