BIOS "Rootkit" Preloaded In 60% of New Laptops 236
Keldrin_1 writes "Researchers Alfredo Ortega and Anibal Sacco, from Core Security Technologies, have discovered a vulnerability in the 'Computrace LoJack for Laptops' software. This is a BIOS-level application that calls home for instructions in case the laptop is ever lost or stolen. However, what the application considers 'home' is subject to change. This allows the creation of malware capable of 'infecting the BIOS with persistent code that survive reboots and reflashing attempts.' Computers from Dell, Lenovo, HP, Toshiba, Asus, and others may be affected."
Hmmm (Score:4, Funny)
P.C. Phone Home.
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Are Sony Vaio's using this? (Score:5, Insightful)
No,not sony for once, here is a list (Score:5, Informative)
From the Lojack compatibility list [absolute.com] here is a list of company:
ASUS, Dell Fujitsu, GammaTech, Gateway, GD Itronix, Getac, HP, Lenovo,,Motion, Panasonic, Toshiba
You can find a list of models on the "bios compatibility list"
Something doesn't sound right, here. (Score:5, Informative)
They have every DV/TC-model of HP Laptop listed - I used to specifically work on all DV/TC/NC/NX models, I've NEVER ONCE seen this in BIOS during any of my repairs. NEVER. Also, this software was never listed in part of HP's troubleshooting guides, and that usually means that feature is not there.
I rebooted my laptop (DV9000, full featured loaded with every possible thing offered) and this 'rootkit' in BIOS is nowhere to be found, at all. Not on my friend's DV2000. Not on the new TC4400 I have in my art room.
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Maybe it's available "optionally" on all those models?
Or maybe it's really really good at hiding itself from you....
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Don't worry about Sony Vaios. I've owned 2; however, I've only purchased 1. The second is a warranty-replacement after the first died (after 1 year of gentle use). The second died (like clockwork) every six months after and only lasted for two years (when the video board died - software rendering only (even MS-Word (aside from the normal pain) was painful!). It has since been replaced by another LT.
So, bottom line - I don't imagine people owning Vaios long enough for them to be too problematic. They'll be i
60%? Really? (Score:2, Interesting)
60% seems awfully high for a program I've never heard of. Not that I've been laptop shopping lately, but still.
Re:60%? Really? (Score:5, Interesting)
I know it's hard to believe. When doing our research (I'm Alfredo, hi!) we couldn't find a notebook *without* the Computrace agent. It's bad.
Re:60%? Really? (Score:5, Interesting)
Any way to tell if your laptop has this "feature"?
And is there any way to disable it?
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Re:60%? Really? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:60%? Really? (Score:5, Informative)
Disable only works if the product was never activated. if the BIOS is set to active, AND the client software on the machine contacts the servers for Computrace, and verifies it should be licensed, then it "flips a switch" in that BIOS setting, and you can NEVER disable it again.
They need to write to the software, or else the software will always try to contact them, and then anyone could track any laptop with a supeana, ruining their business model.. Instead, it has to be "turned on".
Also, this software in the BIOS does not actually contact anyone directly. All the BIOS level crap does is forcibly try to re-install the agent software under windows. This could get ugly, if you update the BIOS, to try to force it to install a different program every time someone reloads windows...
Of course, I wonder what happens if I buy an "off lease" laptop, that was at one point activated...
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Please explain to me how this works.
This BIOS 'switch' - how exactly is that flipped? CMOS is not permanent, NVRAM is not permanent, RAM is not permanent. The only permanent storage are removable devices such as hard drives, and the BIOS itself. The BIOS is usually protected physically (jumper) and isn't a 'volatile' storage means anyways. Also, from my understanding, this isn't something that can be reprogrammed on the fly - it has to be done in "real mode" and is done on a block level, rather than bit lev
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You're not missing any clues; it's just impossible.
My Dell Inspiron 6000's last BIOS update (several years ago) came with some Computrace back-end stuff, with the aforementioned options for on, off, and disable. On and disable are both "permanent" options.
Which is really interesting, if you follow the timeline: The feature wasn't wasn't there at all to begin with. And then, I flashed it in. And now, it says its permanent. Uh - yeah, right.
If I set it to "on" or "disable", it'll just flip a bit somewher
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And then, I flashed it in. And now, it says its permanent. Uh - yeah, right.
If I set it to "on" or "disable", it'll just flip a bit somewhere, and/or do some magic crypto, and flash that result into a region of BIOS.
Of course you could disable it. But that's not the point.
There seems to be a prevalent view on /. that because a security system can be disabled, it always will be and is therefore pointless. But anyone who's got enough knowledge to know about the existence of this is probably not a junkie that steals laptops left alone for a minute on the train. And that's what the great majority of petty theft is.
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No, I don't think I can disable it. I can only issue an instruction to a computer which is described as disabling the function permanently, but that doesn't exactly mean anything important.
Here's the scenario:
I "disable" it, the appropriate bits are written into the flash ROM on the motherboard, and it appears to be disabled.
Later, something else comes along, and writes different bits into the flash ROM. And then it's not disabled anymore.
(And, whatever the case, the default is "off," which should at leas
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Are you saying that this is a BIOS-level process that only introduces a Windows vulnerability? So Linux users and Hackintoshers are safe?
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A list of participating manufacturers is right there on the company's web site: http://www.absolute.com/partners/bios-compatibility [absolute.com]
My company recently investigated the LoJack system after one of our laptops got stolen. It's impressive technology. The sales rep talked up how "fortunate" they were to get the cooperation of many BIOS implementations from the folks who make BIOSes. I don't think that's fortune at all -- it's a corporate deal. Whatever.
It's common but not all-pervasive. (yet?) I looked for
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60% may be vulnerable, but it is a bald faced lie to say that 60% are preloaded with a rootkit.
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I was just thinking the same thing. Considering that the list of models [absolute.com] with this stuff in the BIOS doesn't include Acer, who ship more laptops than anyone else, or HP, or several other big players, I'm a bit sceptical of that figure. Still the list is quite extensive, I'm a bit surprised I haven't heard of this.
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Ok, so it does include HP. It's been a long day, and I go home in 3 minutes.
I've never understood the point of this program... (Score:3, Insightful)
It is time (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:It is time (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:It is time (Score:4, Funny)
That's nice. "Hello, customer. There's a fatal bug in your BIOS. Of course, there's not a damn thing you can do about it, since the BIOS on this model isn't changable, but at least you know about it now."
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Which is a lot better than something bad happening with no clue as to why.
Even if it wasn't fixable, I would like to know.
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Not everything is flash-based, yaknow.
Once upon a time, I had a 32x Plextor SCSI CD-ROM reader, back when such a thing was still a trendy thing to have for ripping audio CDs, which was generally problematic back then.
It worked pretty well, but eventually Plextor made a new firmware for it that improved a few things. They mailed it out to me for free, via USPS. After the package showed up, I found a small, square EEPROM inside of a static-resistant carrier and, IIRC, a brief instruction sheet.
The process w
Once upon a time... (Score:4, Informative)
Well, once upon a time, that was the case :
In case of bug you needed either to move the BIOS chip to a separate flasher, or at least use a hardware switch on the motherboard to switch between 5v and 12v to enable BIOS chip flashing.
Nowadays, even Windows applications can write to the BIOS without any peculiar form of control. No switch at all involved.
BIOS rootkits were just bound to happen. What makes it even easier for rootkits, is that 90% of all PC uses the same brands of BIOS and those BIOS are designed in a modular fashion making it easy to add a "rootkit" modules without needing the re-create a whole new BIOS (see example of how to add an embed FreeDOS inside an Award BIOS).
That pretty much stupid : Most motherboard have a couple of bugs fixed during the first couple of months. Then there's mostly no need to reflash the BIOS, except for supporting newer CPUs, etc... which would require opening the case and accessing the motherboard anyway. But for the whole lifetime of the BIOS, it remains completely writeable even from user-space application from within highly insecure OSes.
Hardware "write-protection" switches for BIOSes should be reintroduced. Simple fix for a simple problem.
Instead you can stay sure that the manufacturers and Microsoft are going to require several layers of TPM and similar forms of DRM in BIOS which won't even guaranty that BIOSes would be protected from bugs.
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BIOS chips were rote ROM for a long time before writable BIOS was commonplace. Henceforth, I'm wondering if going old-school on this would be the best way to go.
What about read-only, removable, replaceable BIOS chips? If there's a sufficiently serious bug in the firmware, the OEM mails BIOS chips to registered users. If it's just feature or performance or hardware enhancements, then the OEM charges a nominal fee for it.
Alternatively, what about having twin BIOS chips and a USB BIOS reader? The removable B
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Damn, I've just wasted 15 years of my life porting BIOSes to different platforms. Thanks for telling me that it was all unnecessary. Hardware manufacturers will also be pleased to know that they can just use a smaller ROM of a few KB instead of the 4MB ROMs that are coming into use now. That will save a few pennies.
I bow before your in depth and vastly superior knowledge of the subject.
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Sorry but the BIOS has not been small and simple for about 20 years. It does far more than simply launch a bootloader. New technologies have constantly been added to the BIOS and each one has added to the complexity. APM, PnP, PCI, ACPI, EPP/ECP, BBS, UEFI, PCIe etc etc. The 4MB ROM is not yet full of BIOS code, that's still only about 1.5MB give or take. However Intel boards also have code in there for their manageability engine etc. With a reasonable amount of headroom in the ROM manufacturers are looking
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Fire the guy. BIOS do the same function on every computer and are a very simple program of a few K. Bugs in there are totally avoidable.
No, they need to be adapted per chipset, especially for things like ACPI.
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No matter how simple your code is, it will never be perfect.
int main(void);
int main(void)
{
return(0);
}
Suggestions from the better C coders out there?
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Are you sure your compiler doesn't have any bugs that might be exacerbated by, say, a main that doesn't take any arguments?
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But the context of the discussion was that the object code should be flawless. In that case, whether the tools that turn source code into object code have bugs turns out to be relevant.
And I didn't say int main(void) was wrong or bad; what I intended to imply was that some compiler might have only been properly tested for the more common argc/argv prototype. Heck, it might not have been tested at all; as another poster mentions it might be a bug in all code the compiler generates.
Re:It is time (Score:5, Funny)
Re:It is time (Score:4, Funny)
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O --- joke
--------- the cloud
o
\ | / --- you
|
/ \
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Can someone with some knowledge please explain to me why we can't build a machine with simple boot code that does not EVER need to be modified for the life of the hardware?
Some big shops love sending out bios settings changes to their computers (a la dell dccu type program). ie "on next boot only, pxe boot for a reimage" read-only bios is easy, just like kiosk machines, but the money's in configurable multi-use systems.
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Because booting a PC is not simple. DRAM init is complicated. PCI init is complicated. Supporting suspend to RAM is complicated. etc etc.
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Because it takes effort to make it stable and reliable enough to put out a version that works well enough to not have to ever patch. BIOS isn't exactly 'standardized'. Well, thats not true, it is because Windows expects certain things out of the BIOS and there is a lose 'standard' but its not followed close enough that there is any standard test set that says if the software passes these tests its good to go.
Doing all that takes money and time. We used to get this sort of effort out of console video game
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They already do. High end motherboards can boot to a simple OS with basic features that let you browse the web, watch DVDs, use popular instant messaging services, and read e-mail. The boards often promote "from boot to web in 5 seconds!"
From Mogwai to Gremlin (Score:3, Funny)
Re:From Mogwai to Gremlin (Score:5, Funny)
LoJack swiftly changes to HiJack with a good meal after midnight
There, fixed that for you. A splash of water would give you more laptops... if only ...
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LoJack swiftly changes to HiJack with a good meal after midnight
There, fixed that for you. A splash of water would give you more laptops... if only ...
Yeah, but they'd all run windows ME
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Besides, Windows ME was more like Aliens than Gremlins.
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Not a "rootkit" when I want it (Score:4, Insightful)
Just like SPTD is not a rootkit when it hides my emulated dvd from copy protection software.
This is a popular piece of software that happens to have a potentially serious bug that the vendors and users should be demanding be fixed, but it doesn't make it a rootkit.
persistent code that survive reboots (Score:2)
Where exactly is the code stored, that survives reboots?
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With the rest of the BIOS code, in the special flash-pram on the motherboard designed especially to store just that code.
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Which should be protected from writing by a jumper or switch.
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Wrong.
That shit can only be removed by a hardware flasher or a hammer.
Computrace is saved in an area that is never allowed to be overwritten.
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Where exactly is the code stored, that survives reboots?
Start here [howstuffworks.com]. For more info, you can read the Wiki article [wikipedia.org].
Alternatively, try opening your computer and actually looking at what's inside. ;-)
Okay.. maybe I'm missing something (Score:2)
Don't people specifically BUY low jack for laptops, or does it come pre installed and you pay to activate it?
It clearly has bugs, but I thought the hard/impossible to remove was considered a feature of the software?
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YOu can buy it, but you can also get it pre-installed. Dell offers it as part of the extended warranty in Canada for their laptops. I presume other manufacturers have similar things going where either you get service "prepaid" or discounted service rates.
The reason for the BIOS part is that if yo
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Signature (Score:5, Insightful)
The pair recommended a digital signature scheme to authenticate the call-home process.
How's that going to help? If you can replace the IP address then you can replace the certificate and signature too. If you have access to modify the BIOS flash, it's game over.
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The concept here is to update the first-install version of the rootkit to be more robust against IP address changes, and to be more secure about the way updates are accepted. So, even if the IP address is spoofed or somehow updated, the download could be verified. Allowing unverified updates is just asking
Unsigned BIOS replacement is the problem (Score:5, Insightful)
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This development should not be a surprise to anyone, but evidently it is. We've been trying to warn people about this possibilty for 10 years; nobody seemed to care. I am hoping they care more now.
I still feel the only solution
Persistant Advertising... (Score:2, Funny)
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Sony would be just the kind of douchebags to try this.
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Thanks, I'm pretty sure I'm going to have nightmares about this now... I'm actually serious. I tend to be a little paranoid about security, not nearly as much as some, but still.
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Wasn't there a DVD burner recently that did this?
Every time you'd close the tray it would prompt you to install their shitware. (Under windows, of course)
Good thing (Score:2)
FUD FOR THE WIN! (Score:5, Informative)
First off, the 'feature' comes on a lot of laptops. Doesn't mean its enabled. You have to request it to be enabled in order for it to come from factory with it actually turned on.
If you don't turn it on, it doesn't do anything, no phone home, no remote wipe, no tracking.
Guess what, same thing applies to Blackberrys, and iPhones, and cars with LoJack that have remote shutoff. For every feature there is a potential risk, thats the way the world works.
If you want the potential to remotely locate/track and wipe a laptop or PC, then you also get the potential that someone else can do it as well.
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Exactly right. The company that made LoJack lobbied for the feature to be installed, but they want you to pay for it to be activated. If you don't give them money, it's dormant.
Now, if somebody hacked or appropriated their activation scheme, or compelled the company to activate it without your knowledge, that would be a cause for concern.
Actually, isn't it more like 95%? (Score:2)
Since most laptops come with Windows, and, well, you get my drift...
oh, that's right, those aren't BIOS rootkits, nevermind. Makes all the difference.
Though I don't much care if my nachine is compromised in pre-execution or later. All the same crap to me.
I wonder if the bad guys have bothered to monitor LoJack transmissions for cars. At least you'd know where the cops are, and could plan to be elsewhere...
LoJack is now (Score:4, Funny)
I knew this peice of Crap would go down someday (Score:2)
I have worked with Computrace at one of my previous companies, and I always knew it was total crap.
It doesn't even work as advertised most of the time and defeating it is so simple a 5 year old with some skill could do it.
Re:Problem solved (Score:4, Informative)
http://store.lojackforlaptops.com/store/absolute/DisplayProductDetailsPage/productID.104509100 [lojackforlaptops.com]
Congrats, there is a Mac version available as well. PC's and Mac's are all the same parts made by the same slaves chained together. there is a few companies in the world that make a basic computer and then Dell, HP, Apple and others add a few things and brand it for themselves.
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"Congrats, there is a Mac version available as well."
The Mac version appears to be software install only, not the BIOS-resident version. Apple is not listed as a partner on the web site.
A.
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EFI
Learn to macfag
Re:Problem solved (Score:4, Informative)
Actually this could be built into EFI. Apple don't, but if a laptop manufacturer wanted to they could. It's even easier than BIOS - an EFI ROM is a structured filesystem containing all the drivers and commands required to boot.. things like the display and keyboard drivers. Adding this software could be done after the fact without even having to touch the original code.
Re:Problem solved (Score:5, Insightful)
I use a Macbook.
As do I, but that does not mean that I have any delusions as it relates to security.
There are quite a bits of exploitable code available that, if properly engineered, can do quite a bit of damage to an Apple computer. Simply because there is no Mac version of the "Melissa" virus does not mean that as a Mac user I should assume that there will never be one.
And let's not forget the iLife torrent that had something special added to it. There are plenty of individuals attempting to prove to the general public that a Mac is no more secure than it's Windows counterpart, and it will be not a false sense of security, but a lack of personal responsibility that will assist in that.
Opinion, obviously. Results may vary.
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Anyone who thinks that the Darwin-BSD codebase and XNU kernel are as prone to exploitation as Windows kernelspace is dreaming. For one thing Darwin-XNU is open source, so anyone who likes can peek under the hood and suggest improvements. Now XNU isn't perfect, but the Windows kernel is a train wreck at 35,000 feet.
The problem is that Mac users think their computers are invulnerable to exploits and then don't practice safe hex. But if you think your Windows box is just as safe as your Mac box you're going to
Re:Problem solved (Score:4, Insightful)
We're talking about a BIOS rootkit. The BIOS runs directly on the hardware. It doesn't really care what OS you're loading, unless it has some specific reason to.
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We're talking about a BIOS rootkit. The BIOS runs directly on the hardware. It doesn't really care what OS you're loading, unless it has some specific reason to.
Uh, yeah, we are talking about a BIOS feature that some companies choose to install. Macs do not come with a BIOS but rather use EFI. Have you heard of Google?
Apple would have to deliberately include an EFI compatible version of this feature in order for this to be applicable.
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So? EFI = not-so-basic basic input/output system.
There's a mac version of LoJack. Whether or not it is installed on a Macbook would depend on whether Apple chose to preload it, I suppose. A hackintosh, OTOH, might be more likely to have it.
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Its even easier to add this feature to EFI than it is to BIOS since EFI was designed to be Extensible.
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Someone should do a car analogy for this...
If only there were a "Computrace lojack for laptops" for cars.
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Exactly. The problem, of course, is that someone found a vulnerability for it. Now this thing that's running at higher privileges than your OS can be subverted. And you can't remove it. By design.
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You might want a BIOS update, I have no problem turning mine on and off.
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Horse shit.
Once enabled, it can't be disabled.
Once disabled, it can't be enabled.
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Theres no reason WMI needs to be involved, its part of the BIOS, it already knows everything about the hardware and doesn't need much effort to read a little info off the windows disk.
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Re:What's with all the extra "features" no one wan (Score:2)
They do. Its not enabled from the factory. You have to pay extra to get it to actually work. It is completely hidden to the OS unless enabled in the BIOS at boot time.
I realize you just read some FUD kdawson forwarded for us, but you have to take extra steps to make this software work. Out of the box there is nothing to do, you don't have to 'remove it', when the BIOS transfers control it is for all intents and purposes not available.
It is an optional feature, like traction control on your car or overdr
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Mod parent up. This is very bad. (Score:4, Insightful)
This is a very bad thing. A "security" product should not allow downloading of software. This is even worse. It allows hidden downloading of software not visible to the user.
Supposedly it's delivered "turned off"? But how do you know it's turned off at startup? How do you know it wasn't turned on during operating system loading, or wasn't turned on by any of the preloaded crap that the "major PC manufacturers" preload? How do you know there isn't some way to turn it on remotely?
No computer with this software in ROM should be used for proprietary material, legal documents, medical records regulated by the HIPPA, financial records regulated by the SEC, or anything else that might attract an opponent. If you just play WoW, go ahead.