Flash Vulnerabilities Affect Thousands of Sites 214
An anonymous reader sends us to The Register for this security news. The problem is compounded by the fact that some of the most popular Web development tools for generating SWF produce files containing the recently disclosed vulnerabilities. "Researchers from Google have documented serious vulnerabilities in Adobe Flash content which leave thousands of websites susceptible to attacks that steal the personal details of visitors. A web search reveals more than 500,000 vulnerable applets on major corporate, government and media sites. Removing the vulnerable content will require combing through website directories for SWF files and then testing them one by one. Updates in the Adobe software that renders SWF files in browsers are also likely, but they probably wouldn't quell the threat completely... No patch in sight from Adobe, that's the price to pay for depending on proprietary solutions."
Proprietary, huh? (Score:5, Informative)
There are open source implementations of the Flash protocol; I'm running Gnash [gnashdev.org] as my SWF player on Ubuntu 64, and it works just fine. Your mileage may vary.
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Re:Proprietary, huh? (Score:5, Insightful)
In summary, "Phishing can work against Flash apps." Specifically, the article says someone at Google documented something about XSS working against Flash apps...being really light on the details. This could apply to Google's stock market Flex charting, for example. Adobe hasn't done anything about it and didnt respond to EMAIL inquiries about it.
My question is who asked The Register, to troll against Adobe? AND how did it get posted on
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Firefox + NoScript FTW. Filters XSS even from sites you've otherwise whitelisted (which does *very* rarely cause a problem, but you can manually override if necessary.)
Flash danger (Score:5, Informative)
Say I want to read your email. I send you an email with a Flash animation in it. You read it and your webmail verifies there's no dangerous scripts in my email - but it's much harder to verify my Flash I sent you is safe. Which I'm counting on because I've put code in that creates a script tag in the webpage, downloads my dangerous script, and sends me your cookies. Now I can read your email.
Flash has been getting a free pass on security for a long time. Time for things to tighten up on the web viewer more widely installed than Internet Explorer.
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I've never seen one which does this, for that very reason, as this study seems to prove:
http://www.campaignmonitor.com/blog/archives/2006/01/the_truth_about_1.html [campaignmonitor.com]
This issue isn't really the fault of Flash, but more web applications not validating their input and allowing the user to insert HTML tags where they shouldn't.
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I tried Gnash, and it didn't work on the flash pages I tried it on. Although there are open-source development tools for flash, such as mtasc and haxe, there are a lot of obstacles, both legal and technological, that anyone will encounter if they try to do OSS development on the flash platform. If you want to generate AS3, the only OSS compiler is hax
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Acutally, you may want to take a look at Flex. Adobe open-sourced their compiler, and the SDK to create SWF files. Flex (starting with version 3), is open source, /and/ fully supported by Adobe on Linux, Mac and Windows.
Thanks for the info -- that's very interesting. However, there's some pretty objectionable stuff in the EULA [adobe.com], including "2.6.1 No Modifications, No Reverse Engineering." That really doesn't fit my definition of OSS.
The EULA for the SWF spec [adobe.com] also states that "You may not use the Specifi
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Step 1: go to http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/flex/sdk/ [adobe.com]
Step 2: Download the open-source Flex Compiler.
Step 3: Profit.
Yep, that was long and hard...
Re:Proprietary, huh? (Score:5, Insightful)
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The problem is that it lacks a little more work to be always stable and some more to get other codecs like speex incorporated. But the developper is gone and nothing has been developped since 2006. So it could be a nice project to pick up for someone with knowledge in Java, who want to do some usefull work for the Free Software users instead of only relying on Free alternative to the Flash player wich wo
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The guy even calls Flash a "protocol"! This is the OPPOSITE of insight!!!
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Who thinks anyone will be working on this grave security issue during the holidays ?
If it was an open source project, I think it would be more likely a (or few) developer(s)
would be.
I could be wrong ofcourse.
What do you think ?
Block Flash wherever possible (Score:5, Informative)
On Firefox, there's an extension called Flashblock [mozilla.org]. It blocks Flash by default, but allows you to re-enable it on a page-wide or applet-by-applet basis. Several other extensions will do the same thing.
In IE7, you can double-click a spot in the status bar (third box, right to left, of the boxes just to the left of the security zone indicator (the thing that usually says Internet)) or open the Add-on Manager from Tools in the command bar or menu bar, and disable or enable the Flash ActiveX control. This will globally enable or disable flash, but doesn't take effect on a given page until that page is refreshed. Alternatively, the third-party add-on IE7Pro has applet-by-applet flash blocking.
I realize that some sites need it, and on those there's nothing you can do about this problem except hope Adobe updates their software ASAP. For everywhere else though, do yourself a favor and block it.
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whitelist sites via right-click, edit site preferences
Even Lynx had problems, so.... (Score:4, Informative)
http://secunia.com/advisories/17372/ [secunia.com]
http://secunia.com/advisories/17216/ [secunia.com]
That is with just a text-only browser.
So, should we go back to using
echo -e "GET / HTTP/1.1\nHost: slashdot.org\n\n" | netcat slashdot.org 80
Kinda sucks!
Clearly one of the answers is to limit the browser to sub-user access. I think that is what Vista tells us is happening there. Debian doesn't do that by default. But then I'm not sure how easy it would be to limit iceweasel (firefox) to not executable stuff except known plugins, etc...
As for the solution to problems like this, it is clearly the client that needs patching!! A client needs to handle ALL cases without allowing someone to compromise information, etc.
There is a balance between security and usability. You can't have both perfect at the same time.
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echo -e "GET / HTTP/1.1\nHost: slashdot.org\n\n" | netcat slashdot.org 80
Kinda sucks!
Eff that. Gopher's still going strong!
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If there was a vulnerability discovered in flash player, flashblock would provide little protection, to demonstrate my point, install flashblock and click here [decsystem.org] (harmless testcase). Did flashblock prevent flash player from crashing, or taking down firefox?
(to pre-empt replies, yes i do know about noscript)
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You need a better example.
Permanent workaround (Score:5, Insightful)
So you don't want to use YouTube then? (Score:3)
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before the proliferation of FLV online video was very hit or miss, especially when one dared to use something other than the latest internet explorer
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Actual TV/movies get downloaded (or watched from DVD/VoD)
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Please tell me how YOU would deliver multimedia content on the Internet - and I'm not talking about stupid youtube videos (as someone who doesn't even own a TV I could subscribe to the view such content is indeed useless). In addition to audio/video Flash
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Those who simply reject TV out of hand are no better than those who reject cars or buying bread.
*I* like multimedia, and so do others, period.
Except for TV.
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Is slashdot evil? (Score:4, Funny)
Why was the book released before the patch? (Score:2)
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Probably because they have a deadline for their book and it seems you answered your own question in your post with ..."The authors have been working since the summer with Adobe, the developer of Flash, and the United States Computer Emergency Readiness Team to coordinate a remedy. But so far there is no estimate when patches may be released. A security update Adobe released this week for its Flash player doesn't fix the vulnerabilities, Stamos said. Adobe represent
Re:Why was the book released before the patch? (Score:5, Informative)
A more formal vulnerability report is being co-ordinated with CERT and should be out soon with the details of the issues.
this isn't fixing the problem! (Score:2, Offtopic)
why exactly is this not considered a problem with the flash player its self if it is executing code it shouldn't be? fixing the swf files themselves doesn't really solve the problem if it is still possible to create malformed swf files which can later b
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Oh, so you are the person behind this "vulnerable content" nonsense?
How can you seriously describe untrusted content as "vulnerable"?
The software which is handling the content can be vulnerable. The content itself can contain an exploit of this vulnerability.
This can be fixed in two ways:
1. Fix the vulnerability in the software which is handling the content. This is the right way.
2. Con
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#2 should read:
2. Continue using vulnerable software and do only accept CONTENT from [...]
Can someone explain how this is supposed to work? (Score:2)
Re:Can someone explain how this is supposed to wor (Score:2)
it needs to make use of a cross site scripting vulnerability to inject the code needed to expose the flaw in flash files. If I RTFA right, the flash files themselves don't neccessarily need to contain the code in of themselves but can be made vulnerable with the XSS vulnerability. which I suppose makes sense, XSS vulrerabilities are associated with code injection that can cause some very bad
What about flash videos? (Score:2)
Article is vague on the details... (Score:3, Insightful)
Huh? So this is some kind of phishing attack? Exactly how is Flash involved, and what should we be watching out for? (Other than never entering important data into a form we reached by clicking... always good practice.)
Flash: FAIL: (yes, it's worse than the blink tag) (Score:2, Interesting)
1) It provides a mechanism for young impressionable web designers to splatter their so called design spunk all over my screen in one gigantic wank-off-fest. Usually, resulting in pages that are so unusably bad, I can't begin to fathom how they
Flash: PASS: (the blink tag was never good) (Score:3, Insightful)
Nice rant, but you seem to fail to realize that the web, and computer software in general, tend to fall in the same sort of categories. That's just the way it is. Don't forget Sturgeon's Revelation, "90 percent of everything is crud." (Though I believe this estimate to be conservative, and certainly the adjective chosen is much more polite than is usually quoted.)
I'd rather have the possibility of having those few brilliant F
Re:Flash: FAIL: (yes, it's worse than the blink ta (Score:2)
Hey, you forgot to say how! (Score:2)
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It's all in the book. You just have to buy it...
More seriously, I don't care who the authors are, who they are working with, when it was discovered, or when the official patches will be out. I care about disclosure so I can rectify or mitigate the problem, and that's something the "good guys" have not done. So far, I've read a fucking marketing extract, designed to drum up some interest in a little fund-raiser for the boys? *My* computers, networks, servers, and
Just more X-Site scripting = Relax a little (Score:5, Informative)
Although this can "help" an attacker steal information the end user still has to click a link provided by the attacker that tricks the user into thinking they are on someone elses site and seeing content that site generated.
Cross site scripting attacks are not to laughed off, but they do tend to get over exagerated. When is the last time you clicked on an email link sent to you out of the blue...and then stuck in your user name and password.
People could just as easily fall for attacks like this that don't even change the URL. Not to mention that this has to upload the payload to a server. Meaning you can steal people's information, but it has to go to an IP somewhere. Maybe if law enforcement would get off their behinds and go after this f'ers it wouldn't be such a big issue.
All the anti-flash posts need to get down voted. I could easily say that Jscript sucks because of all the various security issues it has had over the years, but it isn't useful or productive. Flash is what flash is...you don't like it...don't install it and shutup and let the rest of us use it.
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"When is the last time you clicked on an email link sent to you out of the blue...and then stuck in your user name and password."
Therein lies the problem. You assume that it requires you to do that. Simple XSS hacks take you to a page where you login. Advanced (read real) XSS hacks take you to pages where you have already logged in. Say, for example, an e-mail system. They do it using a hidden iFrame, so you never even see it. Then the script can "browse" the site looking for key bits of information and will then pass it on to a malicious site via a hidden post. You will never even be aware that the hack has taken place.
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Or is flash on a web page (say, a bank) along with a normal form with a post command to the online banking server also threatened?
Basically, what I want to know is if with a flash enabled browser on my bank's online banking login web site with their crappy annoying SWF file, do I gotta disable Flash to be safe?
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For example, PayPal was the target of an attack like this and the user was sent to PayPals site... the certificate even checked out, but the injection attack still allowed the data to be stolen none the less. And that wasn't even using Flash.
Bill
Flash: The Best Among Bads? (Score:3, Insightful)
On the other hand, looking at what Flash does, and at other technologies that do these things, it seems to me that Flash is clearly technologically superior. I don't know how large the browser plugin is these days, but the one that used to come with Opera used to be very small, and yet provide features that web masters are trying to kludge together with AJAX and whatnot, and for which the W3C has come up with the gargantuan SVG, which has even more elephantine implementations. Flash is the clear winner here.
And then, of course, there is the misuse of Flash for things where Plain Old HTML would be much better. But then again, if Flash were a widely-implemented open standard (rather than a widely-implemented proprietary technology which yet leaves some users in the cold), perhaps such use wouldn't be _mis_use.
So, all in all, I think that Flash would be _great_ if it weren't proprietary...but the fact that it _is_ proprietary is a real obstacle.
Flash != Evil (Score:5, Insightful)
In the past, many vulnerabilities have been reported on the Flash player, but most of them follow a similar kind of theme - the rogue SWF file must be created with third party authoring tools, and or modified in a hex editor, in order to put the malicious code in there to begin with. In addition, due to the security sandbox and crossdomain restrictions, it needs to be downloaded from your site anyway. So, its perfectly possible for a SWF to wreak havoc on a user's machine, the only caveat is that someone within a company, with access to the web servers and source code, would need to have created it in the first place - something I'm sure is indicative of a larger problem!
Oddly, most non Flash/web developers tend not to see it that way - I have a beautiful MP3 of a conversation I had with one of our 'Security' people who just consistently ranted on about undisclosed vulnerabilities as a reason not to use Flash in a project.
In my years of working with the web and the Flash platform, I have not yet seen a single workable exploit that could present a credible threat to the majority of Flash user's on the web, not without the user or the site already being compromised in some manner.
The only somewhat grey area is where Flash is used for online advertising, but you will find that most of the main publishers out there are aware of this and perform some level of code review on ads before they go live - I work for a bank and we don't run any 3rd party adverts without seeing the sourcecode and decompiling any SWF assets provided.
Really guys, the Flash platform isn't the cloud of evil you are making it out to be. Granted, it has been used for some really annoying things in the past, but used right, it can really help to deliver a friendly, usable and engaging user experience. In addition, in Adobe's hands we have seen it become more open than ever before - Flex, AMF, Tamarin, all released as open source in the past year. I'd be surprised if this trend does not continue.
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On the other hand, having a consistent platform to launch a web application without worry from all the browser differences is a definite plus. But even here Fla
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So you think that the user's Flash security should depend on whether the site he is visiting has malicious intent?
We are normally measuring web browsers against another standard:
A web browser must be so secure that visiting a site with malicious int
firefox + noscript... (Score:2)
You guys are 99% wonky (Score:3, Informative)
In my opinion, every web technology sucks pretty mightily, for one reason or another. They are either abused by malevolent advertisers or 13 year olds, not supported uniformly by all platforms or browsers, and are a pain in the ass to design with. Dynamic HTML is a bad joke. Javascript invented pop-up hell. And praise CSS all you like, it's a strategy only a programmer could love. You can't center things reliably with it no matter how many hoops you jump through. That's something even HTML 1.0 could manage.
My own clients LOVE Flash sites. They insist on them. They want animations, and sound, and websites that look the same in every browser. (Flash's ability to proportionately scale content to the window is a thing of beauty, and one of the most underused talents of the plug-in. Why some Flash designers insist on manipulating the window size instead is beyond me) The only people who don't love Flash sites are other programmers. And I'm more than happy to take their business.
Hating Flash for bad Flash sites is like hating scientists for making gunpowder possible. Live in a teepee or run a casino...your choice.
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HTML doesn't have the expressive power to be dangerous. Go ahead and make a bad site with HTML and be as malicious as possible: you still can't do anything really dangerous. At worst, you might exploit a browser bug; but that will be a problem with the browser, not the format and the intended expressive power of HTML. Flash, in stark contrast, now allows the author to resize browser wi [youtube.com]
Re:Preference (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Preference (Score:5, Insightful)
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To hell with Flash anyway... (Score:3, Interesting)
Useful or pertinent information (if it is manifest at all) usually has the appearance of being inserted as an afterthought. That's why the sites I visit most often tend to be based primarily on simple markup such as HTML, which despite its various drawbacks is at least easy to maintain (and therefore more likely to be maintained), and does not have the noli-me-tangere character of a cast-bronze SWF presentation.
I
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Offtopic: I've scarier work where entire site was one big BMP image with huge image map slammed on top of it.
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What file format do you use for videos?
Re:Preference (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Preference (Score:4, Funny)
You must be new here... this debate isn't about whether or not the suggested alternatives to Flash are supported or practicable.
It's more to do with people having look at reality and coming to the conclusion that they just don't like or believe certain aspects of it.
Call it a selective disregard for the facts or utter stupidity if you will, but its kinda groovy...
I think that the audio and video functionality of Flash/Flex can and will be replaced by chaz haskins' svg wondershow plugin.
See it's easy! get into it.
Neither is Flash (Score:3, Insightful)
Neither is Flash.
Both needs a plugins to work.
The HUGE difference comes from the fact that Flash is only available from 1 single company which produce plugins for only a small handful of platform (except maybe for the open-source Gnash [gnashdev.org] plugin, which already kind of works, but still needs a lot of efforts).
Whereas, MPEG player are available for whatever platform you may think about as long as it has either the processors horsepower or a decoding co-p
Re:Preference (Score:5, Interesting)
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the online converter at vixy.net also works, though it tends to get flaky at times (cutting off your download in the middle or throwing "invalid video ID" when the url is
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Forget "power" ripping tools; they all seem to just come down to a regex through the source, pre-set for a given handful of sites. So, they break as soon as a site updates their page layout, and just plain don't work on other, more obscure, sites.
The best way I've found is to just open up Firebug to the 'Net' tab (looks like this [getfirebug.com]), and look for the biggest request listed. This works because the browser has to make the request for the video at some point, even if that request is obfuscated in the source, oc
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Youtube saving tool (Score:2)
You paste-in the youtube page url, hit the button and get an URL you can either save or copy/paste into some compatible player like VLC.
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Lol, you do realise it downloads it to /tmp ? You can "rip" them using any file manager or even just "cp". Personally I just run ffmpeg at them with the output directory set to $HOME convertin them to theora in the process.
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Re:Preference (Score:5, Insightful)
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Flash Video files are the easiest to pull from a website; I've yet to find an embedded Flash Video file I could not save to disk. I can't say that for QuickTime; a few have eluded me. As for Windows Media, they are by far the most difficult to save to disk; I can't say I've been 100% successful on those.
Got some Flash content you think is safe? Post the url; I'll email the whole thing to you as a self-contained movie file. G
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And you've missed the point entirely, the point in flash video isn't to stop people saving them, it's to let people watch them. Many video sites have links to download them.
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Many sites use flash for no good reason when pure HTML would be perfectly fine.
In the process they make the entire process less secure, more error prone and
ultimately less accessable.
flash vs. flash for no good reason.
Re:I'm no fan of proprietary solutions, but... (Score:4, Insightful)
The price comes in.. (Score:5, Interesting)
The community might ignore such a patch, and it might not even happen that often, but if things were generally dire enough in a projects mainstream, a new leadership could fork the project and that is not unheard of in projects. Of course, it's common for distributions to apply security updates to their packages before upstream merges them, so it isn't *that* strange.
Not related to security, but the current version of the flash plugin, for example, breaks compatibility with linux opera and konqueror due to Xembed, and packagers hands are kind of tied in terms of what to do about it. Of course, can also point out the ATI drivers, which suffer greatly from problems and are dealt with in a way that doesn't work.
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Now let's say that Gnash works approximately like Flash does; do you your design in a 'source' file called a
Funnily enough.. (Score:3, Insightful)
As to the question at hand, I don't know enough detail about the vulnerability myself, however note:
Stamos said Adobe is likely to update its Flash Player so it does a better job of vetting code variables before executing SWF files. But he said interaction with third-party code is such a core part of the way Flash works that updates to the player would likely provide only a partial fix.
So while I do not understand the technical details, those that do understand believe some sort of player-side sanity checks would be good to mitigate the consequences. In the open-source world, they would be able to co
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All of this, of course, is assuming that there is an open source package that does what Flash does, and there isn't.
First of all, excluding Gnash, Java does everything that Flash does and much, much more. Oh yeah and it's open source. Of course it's not made by Adobe so designers have no clue how to do anything with it, but that's a different problem. And much of the animation you see with Flash can be
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Re:A lot of the vulnerable Flash is THIRD PARTY (Score:4, Interesting)
Or am I missing something?
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Different strokes for different folks, I guess.
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