Picture Passwords More Secure than Text 261
Hugh Pickens writes "People possess a remarkable ability for recalling pictures and researchers at Newcastle University are exploiting this characteristic to create graphical passwords that they say are a thousand times more secure than ordinary textual passwords. With Draw a Secret (DAS) technology, users draw an image over a background, which is then encoded as an ordered sequence of cells. The software recalls the strokes, along with the number of times the pen is lifted. If a person chooses a flower background and then draws a butterfly as their secret password image onto it, they have to remember where they began on the grid and the order of their pen strokes. The "passpicture" is recognized as identical if the encoding is the same, not the drawing itself, which allows for some margin of error as the drawing does not have to be re-created exactly. The software has been initially designed for handheld devices such as iPhones, Blackberry and Smartphone, but could soon be expanded to other areas. "The most exciting feature is that a simple enhancement simultaneously provides significantly enhanced usability and security," says computer scientist Jeff Yan."
Meh. (Score:4, Insightful)
Easier in Asia... (Score:4, Interesting)
That's right, there's a proper way to write every one of the thousands of characters, right down to stroke order and placement.
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Re:Easier in Asia... (Score:4, Interesting)
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You mean, you look more elitist?
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Also, I wonder what happens if you just really suck at drawing. And how long would it take to draw a picture? I don't want to spend 5 minutes recreating butterflies every time I lock my computer because I stepped away to get some water.
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And "shoulder surfing". (Score:5, Insightful)
With typed passwords that is a lot more difficult.
Re:And "shoulder surfing". (Score:5, Funny)
Oh, wait.
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Really? I disagree. Though it's easy to watch someone's fingers and see which keys they're hitting, it's far more difficult to watch someone's hand and imagine exactly how they typically draw a password. Though this can't have too much subtlety to it because then no one would ever be able to remember their password exactly enough to reproduce it, it can be fine-grained enough that no one but you can draw your password like you do.
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It's not as difficult as you think. It's a standard magicians trick to secretly watch a persons hand/pen movements and then 'magically' re-create the drawing they made.
Re:And "shoulder surfing". (Score:5, Funny)
Now if only I could figure out how to paste that troll's ascii in here...
Re:And "shoulder surfing". (Score:5, Informative)
=8{O}8=
Re:And "shoulder surfing". (Score:4, Funny)
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I mean, that's what I'd do.
Re:And "shoulder surfing". (Score:4, Funny)
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Anyway, the drawing pad would most certainly *not* show the password picture while you're drawing it!! Sheesh! Do you think security researchers are that stupid?
SHA (Score:4, Insightful)
You could use some algorithm to simplify the users drawing, rounding angles (I punned!
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Since even only a single bit difference to a hash algorithm generates an entirely different result, this means you can't hash that file and expect it to match a hash of the "same" pass picture on the server, unless you draw the pass picture absolutely identically every time.
So how do you se
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They are basically talking about eyewitness identification. That has already been debunked as the most unreliable source for anything. There are too many variables involved. Everything from remembering what image you used to repeating that image consistently over time is under fire. This just won't work for so many reasons...
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Re:Meh. (Score:5, Insightful)
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After a long time doing it, you would get damn fast at it too.
One problem however is disability. If I had a horrible accident and became a quadrapole, I could still recite my password to someone if need be... good luck doing that with this kind of authentication.
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I think you mean quadraplegic. According to Wikipedia:
A quadrupole is one of a sequence of configurations of electric charge or gravitational mass that can exist in ideal form, but it is usually just part of a multipole expansion of a more complex structure reflecting various orders of complexity.
Re:Meh. (Score:5, Funny)
password expired (Score:2, Funny)
That might be a good idea until you get one of these messages.
Password expired, please change your name.
Re:Meh. (Score:5, Funny)
Now my 2 cents, I just design security systems that are so freaky and confusing that hackers just give up because it's too odd. The hacker or otherwise bad person just gives up and is like "wtf is it, broke or just haunted?" If someone made a software suite where you can design your own ridiculous security system with basically unlimited possibilities of whatever the user can dream up, people would have some pretty ridiculous security! Everyone here always complains about security through obscurity. You try opening a ridiculously large-bit-encryption archive file of mine when at the "enter the password" screen, you have to wave the cursor over the password field then type submit in it and click the exit button which reveals a crossword puzzle with only one valid word in it but you have to in fact click the squares so the highlighted letters form a smiley face then within 3 seconds, click on the password field then press tab three times which is the only wat to get you to the now unlocked, real invisible password entry box and type your password in stutter type (doubles of each letter followed by a backspace) and then press the red X in the top right to submit it and open the archive. You aren't getting into that archive! That's so screwy, someone would give up trying to figure out what the hell was going on in minutes. And good luck brute forcing it cuz that'll take all the computers on earth a couple hundred trillion years. Plus it's not that hard of a process to remember when you really think about it. It'd take someone who memorized it like 15 seconds tops to do it all and even if someone watched it, they'd have trouble remembering it or understanding it. They'd have to have a camera recording your keyboard and mouse synchronized with another camera watching the screen and also be able to guess the time requirements. Do all that with an incrementing password (like fishfish2 then next time it's fishfish3) at the end of it and they'd barely be able to solve it if you told them every step. Waaaaaaay better and more secure than drawing a picture on a low res grid.
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Re:Meh. (Score:5, Funny)
You're doing it wrong.
Prior Art (Score:3, Informative)
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I've heard this before (Score:5, Funny)
Why am I having nightmares... (Score:3, Funny)
That would be one way to keep things secure though - it's hard for someone to guess your pass picture if they can't bring themselves to look at the background...
I dont think so (Score:5, Interesting)
"Fuzz factor" already included. (Score:2)
So you don't even have to hit the same points. And this is supposedly "more secure"?
Imagine a password program that allow
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If your password was "peach", would you want the system to accept "peacj" as being "close enough"?
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If I were implementing it, I would have a person actually draw several copies of the same thing in a row, so that it can learn the likely sources of variability in that person's drawing. It could maybe even learn this a little bit each time the person logs in, so it would be able to adapt as that person's drawing style slowly changes. Any overly abrupt change would be a failed login, and trigger the need f
Sounds hard (Score:5, Insightful)
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That's a terrible idea! (Score:2)
Normal signature (Score:5, Insightful)
We have had signature recognition for a while.
Whats new?
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Yeah.. different methods of signature recognition have been around for quite some time, and never really caught on. A friend just did his senior undergrad thesis on a survey of techniques for signature detection [slyengineer.net], and it's actually a pretty informative read. Long story short.. even the advanced models have too high false-positive rates, especially from skilled forgers who have time to practice copying your signature at home, or even casual over-the-shoulder copying.
The only real future use of this I see
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We have had signature recognition for a while.
Whats new?
Usually a person only has a single signature that they keep throughout their lives, whereas in this scheme it seems that a person can have several drawings. That signature can be found on any of the countless documents you've signed throughout your life. Also, if you see what a person's signature looks like it's somewhat straightforward to determine how to forge
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Four simple words: "on the internet".
(I estimate 60% or responses will reference my counting ability.)
Damnable Security! (Score:5, Insightful)
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I have trouble drawing stick figures.
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It's bound to be more complex than a password the average user can create. And might be less susceptible to keylogger-type software.
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Its not a single bit easier to remember "I have to set the eye in cell 12/54, the other one in 33/54. After that the circle should go up to row 10 and down to row 65 , ect..." that to remember a complicated password.
Re:Damnable Security! (Score:5, Funny)
Imagine pictures of common passwords/objects being drawn everywhere on the screen at different rotations and scales in rapid succession.. or just a brute forcer which didn't even make legible images 99% of the time
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2 characters. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:2 characters. (Score:4, Insightful)
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"Hey, Susan. I'm Bob from IT. We're doing a company-wide password security survey, and I need to get yours down. Can you let me know what it is?"
"Well, hi Bob. It's sort of a dopey-looking antelope with horns and big teeth."
"Ah. Thanks." *click*
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More Secure? (Score:3, Insightful)
There are only so many places to start drawing your password on a picture and a human would recognize that. People would probably draw birds in the sky and dogs on the ground, right? Also, I would guess that people would make linear leaps with their pictures: someone will draw a bird, and not a fish, in a picture of a tree.
That said, I'm not saying that this isn't a worthwhile endeavor, just that it wouldn't necessarily be as secure as it looks at first glance.
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Easy dictionary attack (Score:3, Insightful)
good for some, bad for some? (Score:2, Redundant)
For example, to write Chinese characters properly, you need to remember the correct "stroke order" for each dash or dot in the character, and repeat it every time you write. The position where each stroke begins and ends is also fixed. It takes some training, discipline and drilling to learn writing like this though. For sloppy writers like me (I even had trouble writing pretty letters in school, mostly due to lazitude), this may not
As nice as this sounds... (Score:5, Funny)
lazy people (Score:2)
Two serious problems (Score:5, Interesting)
2. Some people's hands shake when they've had too much caffeine, most people's fingers get stiff when they've been out in the cold, and some people have degenerative diseases which make typing a one-letter-at-a-time proposition. Drawing would be very difficult in all of these circumstances. Perhaps this is why TFA says that 5% of users couldn't recreate their image within three attempts a week after first coming up with it.
I don't think this technology is going anywhere any time soon.
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New password == old password? (Score:5, Funny)
8==D
Who'd have guessed you could use the same password in both systems?
Re:New password == old password? (Score:5, Funny)
And that's from the graphical login system!
DDR Passwords (Score:5, Funny)
Patent pending, patent pending, patent pending.
Is it that bloody hard to remember "1 2 3 4 5"? (Score:2)
Been there. Done that. (Score:4, Interesting)
Does it work? No. It is far too difficult to draw the same image twice without seeing what you are drawing. If you can see what you are drawing, so can everyone else - then they can draw the same image.
Similar Idea for PalmOS - Prior Art? (Score:2, Informative)
25+KB vs 9-18 bytes, no #$@$ shirlock.. (Score:2)
your average good alphanumeric password is 9-18 bytes
guess which one would be harder to crack, even with a "fuzzy" range
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So many problems (Score:2)
I fail to see how this idea could even *remotely* be construed as providing "significantly enhanced useability". The security aspect is at least arguable (and I actually don't buy that either), but in no way shape or form could such an idea *ever* be called "more useable." Consider:
* It takes me about a second to type a password. How long would it take me to move my mouse pointer
Such marketing bullshit. (Score:2)
Sure, but like a half the poster have already said you are going to have a 80% of end luser drawing happy faces, smileys and stick figures with giant cocks. Easy to dup and a thousand times less secure than a regular pass.
Plus the problem with the signature recognition people have talked about in other posts is that the tools already available at retail stores all suck nuts. You ever try signing your name for a credit card transaction?
It never
Whatever happened to Wizard Codes? (Score:2)
The system displays a long random number (e.g. 40 digits) plus some tick marks. You pick certain digits, do a simple operation with them, and enter the result. E.g. ( 5th digit + 2nd digit) * 12th digit. We did that after a normal password.
Let Me Guess ... (Score:2)
With this pass-image scheme, the favorite pass-images will be what? Boobs, penises, and goatse.cx?
Dam! Input tablet error... (Score:2)
Yep, this idea is as solid as sand. Had to much to drink, or? Christ, my signature is never "exactly" the same, and I sure as hell can't draw.
Please.. dear GOD no! (Score:2, Funny)
User "I have forgotten my password"
admin "let me just reset it for you, the default password is a square with a star inside started at grid co-ordinates 0,3 going to 0,10 then down to 10,10... Don't forget to lift your pen at each courner"
Just kill me now please.
minimum requirements (Score:5, Funny)
Password too simple. Password must be at least 8 strokes with at least one diagonal one and one wiggly one.
Imagine the support calls... (Score:2)
Mike
Sounds like a pain in the ass... (Score:2)
For example, what if the user were to end up blind, paralyzed or damages / loses part of the limb used to enter such a code? At l
Disability Discrimination and CAPTCHA/imagery (Score:2)
I was a consultant at a large UK retail bank and we were going to use a type of picture/CAPTCHA on the online banking solution. Except that the RNIB (Royal National Institute for the Blind) [rnib.org.uk] consultancy operation basically told us that if we went ahead they would be forced to "go to the newspapers" and also would consider taking action under DDA (Disability Discrimination Act) [opsi.gov.uk] legislation.
It's really important to consider (in the UK at least) that around 10% of the online population will not be able to s
Massive Cocks (Score:4, Funny)
Stacey: Try drawing a massive cock..
Arnie: I'm in. Lets get to work
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It still sounds like a bad idea to me for the second reason you mentioned. I do not see this as being any more secure than enforcing strong passwords. I can see it maybe being useful for touch/stylus devices, but that's a different matter than overall security.
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Re:I don't belive it. (Score:4, Interesting)
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I think most people will associate the same things to the same background (eg. flowers->bee) resulting in even less combinations... also, the universe of "drawable things" is smaller than the universe of words, and that is smaller than the universe of pass...
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I figure this will be easier for malicious people to guess the correct drawing (albeit without necessarily being able to guess the starting point and stroke patterns. If you add those pieces of info in, however, it will go from being trivial for anyone to access by guessing to being almost impossible for anyone to access.... Unfortunately, that "anyone" likely includes the legitimate owner of the account.
Congratulations. You've designed perfect security. Why bother letting only the person you want in
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