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Microsoft IT

Microsoft Ties Windows Live Services to OS 248

Posted by ScuttleMonkey from the adoption-by-ramrod dept.
narramissic writes "Microsoft is tying its Windows Live services directly to Vista — a move that should sound vaguely familiar, as it is precisely what the company did to make IE ubiquitous among Internet users. 'A new unified installer for Windows Live services will help users download Wednesday's updates of photo-sharing, mail, instant messaging, online safety and other services, the company said on its Windows Live Wire blog. The new installer also will automatically update those services on Windows Vista and XP going forward.'"
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Microsoft Ties Windows Live Services to OS More

Microsoft Ties Windows Live Services to OS

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  • Sounds like Apple's .Mac service, hasn't been too successful for Apple though.

    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by i_love_unix ( 1123543 )
      But Mac users are neither nearly as ubiquitous nor as tied (real or imagined) to the OS as Windows users.

    • Re:.Mac service (Score:4, Informative)

      by Secret Rabbit ( 914973 ) on Wednesday September 05, 2007 @07:36PM (#20488425) Journal
      It's actually reverse of what you think. Apple launched .Mac and offered it as it sits today. Whereas M$ released the services and /afterward/ is now tying things in. So, they really aren't the same, business-wise that is i.e. no shady business practices from Apple this time 'round.
      • I think it's shady to advertise iDisk on my shiny new iBook and then realize that to use it I have to purchase a monthly subscription to .Mac. And then wonder what would happen to my data if I missed a payment.

  • THIS is what I call a complete OS (Score:5, Funny)

    by dws90 ( 1063948 ) on Wednesday September 05, 2007 @06:00PM (#20487519)
    Not only does it contain IM, photo-sharing and other similar applications, but it also comes preinstalled with the funeral services for when the applications die.
    Hopefully, they will release a Windows Live mortuary sometime soon to make the package even more complete.
  • or is it windows comatose?

  • Wrong (Score:3, Interesting)

    by bheer ( 633842 ) <{rbheer} {at} {gmail.com}> on Wednesday September 05, 2007 @06:01PM (#20487533)
    The problem with Internet Explorer was bundling with the Operating System (not that it was a technically bad thing to do).

    In this case, it's a web download. Big deal. And it probably saves time for those who use all of MSN's services and needs to install/update them. Doesn't Google do this already with Google Pack (including the auto-update) ?

    • IE hangs, whole OS shits itself.

      • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

        by bheer ( 633842 )
        That was never IE's fault. It was Win9x's problem. If an app hung under Win9x, there was a good chance of the OS going down (because of the weird remnants of cooperative multitasking lurking about in Win9x). By contrast NT4 (with the Active Desktop+IE4 Shell Update) and Windows 2000 never had a problem if IE crashed (and IIRC it crashed far less than NN4 did).

        By the way, the problem in bundling IE wasn't technical: all they did was add a browser to Windows, and make the components + standard APIs available

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by VENONA ( 902751 )
      "...not that it was a technically bad thing to do."

      It's a *fundamentally* bad thing to do. It lead to an awful lot of remote code execution exploits. It was originally done in Win95 days--before Windows had any notion of being a multiuser system. There was no privilege separation, so if IE was exploited, no system file, etc., was safe. I don't believe for a moment that Microsoft wasn't aware of this. I think they simply didn't care about their users.

      It's *still* a bad idea. In fact, it's a fundamentally poo

      • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

        by bheer ( 633842 )
        > It's a *fundamentally* bad thing to do. It lead to an awful lot of remote code execution exploits.

        Providing a web browser EXE and standard URL parsing (urlmon), Network handling (wininet and now winhttp) and rendering (shdocvw) components + APIs as part of the base OS package is in no imaginable way a bad idea. Don't confuse MS's implementation for the RIGHT way to design things.

        The BIG problem with IE4-6 was Microsoft using their brand-new HTML renderer to render *everything* -- as part of the "let's

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by drsmithy ( 35869 )

        It's a *fundamentally* bad thing to do.

        Which presumably explains why every other major platform went on to do exactly the same thing, I assume, because all those developers are stupid as well ?

        It lead to an awful lot of remote code execution exploits. It was originally done in Win95 days--before Windows had any notion of being a multiuser system. There was no privilege separation, so if IE was exploited, no system file, etc., was safe. I don't believe for a moment that Microsoft wasn't aware of this. I

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by murdocj ( 543661 )
      Yep. This is the dumbest example of Slashdot FUD I think I've ever seen... and that covers a lot of territory. If you actually bother to read the articles, they're providing an easy way to download Windows Live. Whoop de do.

      Given that this happened the same day nukes got flown on cruise missles across the USA, I think maybe people are just a little bit too focused on the evils of Microsoft.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by rtb61 ( 674572 )
        The real point is that like it's previous attempts, in combining too many bits together, if one bit fails, of if silly coding mistakes are made, other areas start to fail. Simple things like the same M$ "live' cookie being used all over M$ web services. I got sick of invasive record keeping searching so I killed the live cookie, no the first page of my live searches are Australian specific and the second page switches to UK specific, now that's really useful, not, but typical of poor M$ programming.

        Of cou

  • No! Buried in 4th from last paragraph (Score:3, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 05, 2007 @06:01PM (#20487537)
    Using the Windows Live unified installer also is still an option -- not a requirement

    Move along.

    • A Public Service Announcement From Microsoft (Score:5, Funny)

      by MightyMartian ( 840721 ) on Wednesday September 05, 2007 @06:17PM (#20487703) Journal
      We at Microsoft are committed to improving the user experience by (I'm going to fucking kill Google....) encroaching our monopoly into every facet of computer usage (I'm going to fucking kill ISO...). The latest in our long-term plan to completely undermine the capacity for any other software company to influence you is our integration of our software update mechanism with our Windows Live Service (I'm going to fucking kill Sweden.... At Microsoft we believe that competition is more unhealthy than AIDS or swallowing plutonium, and we always seek to find new and inventive ways to completely fuck over any potential competitor. (I'm going to fucking kill Firefox... Another important strategy is planting our arrogant, brain-dead employees on such evil forums as Slashdot, to defend our market-crushing actions. (I'm going to fucking kill Richard Stallman...). We have already submitted the Department of Justice to our terrifying (and patented) Microsoft Bob Rays, which have rendered them simpering, inept and blind half-wits. (I'm going to fucking kill Ubuntu...). We at Microsoft value you, the consumer, for your deep level of mental retardation which allows you to continue funneling billions of dollars to us (I'm going to fucking kill Linus Torvalds...). Thank you for being perhaps the dumbest generation of idiots that the world has ever known (I'm going to fucking kill OpenOffice...).

      • Re: (Score:2, Redundant)

        by conteXXt ( 249905 )
        Such a shame that I can't mod this past +5 funny.

        Rest assured, my new friend, that smallint cannot truly represent the level of funny I got from this post.

        Kudos

  • good choice of words (Score:5, Funny)

    by kallisti ( 20737 ) <rmidthun@yahoo.com> on Wednesday September 05, 2007 @06:02PM (#20487543) Homepage
    "This new suite of applications is a new way that we can make connecting, communicating and sharing anywhere a terrific experience on your Windows PC"

    When reading this quote, I couldn't help but be reminded that the root of the word "terrific" is terrify. Which makes it pretty accurate.

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by Derek Loev ( 1050412 )
      Actually, the root is terrere.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Kaenneth ( 82978 )
      "This new suite of applications is a new way that we can make connecting, communicating and sharing anywhere a terrific experience on your Windows PC"

      When reading this quote, I couldn't help but be reminded that the root of the word "terrific" is terrify. Which makes it pretty accurate.

      I thought it was 'tariff', as in a cost or fee.

  • Not only IE, but MSN Messenger too (Score:5, Insightful)

    by vivaoporto ( 1064484 ) on Wednesday September 05, 2007 @06:03PM (#20487553)

    what the company did to make IE ubiquitous among Internet users
    Not only IE, but MSN Messenger too. Before Microsoft tied MSN Messenger to Windows XP, as the infamous Windows Messenger, ICQ ruled the IM world, and Yahoo Messenger was gaining a lot of traction. Months later, and every newcomer was using MSN, because "that is what comes with the computer", and everybody else had to get an account too, in order to stay in touch. Have in mind that I only know Latin America and Europe, so that may differs in other parts of the world, but at least in Brasil and Portugal, "MSN" is a valid substitute for "Computer Instant Messaging", the same for "give me your MSN".

    • When I was in high school and college, AOL Instant Messenger was really popular. It was pretty much AIM or die. The first big thing was ICQ but had a ton of rough edges. You used to have to click or tab to the "send" button and the window would only show one message at a time rather than a log of messages. You were also given a number instead of an account name so it made it much harder to remember other's numbers or even your own. It did have some of the best off-line features though. With people outside

    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by benbean ( 8595 )
      Now I'm as UNIX-loving and MS-loathing as the next Slashdotter, but in the early days of IM clients when, as you point out, ICQ was king of the hill, I went with Microsoft's solution when stuck using Windows at work because it was the better solution. Microsoft Messenger was lean, clean and fast at a time when ICQ, Yahoo et al were getting uglier and bloatier and more and more difficult to figure out. I don't think it's success is all down to purely being bundled with Windows. It was gaining mindshare befor

    • Well in messenger's defense (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Sycraft-fu ( 314770 ) on Wednesday September 05, 2007 @06:45PM (#20487977)
      It was a lot better than ICQ or AIM, which were the other big two. ICQ started really going down hill especially when spammers started to figure it out. I pretty much stopped using it in late 1998/early 1999. AIM is, well, AOL. While I've not doubt the packaging helped it, I think it was also that you were getting ICQ expats looking for something new that didn't bite. MSN may not have been perfect, but it was the best I found.
    • Actually many of us switched to MSN because ICQ was bloated while MSN was lean.
    • In certain circles, the acronym MSN stands for "Malware Spreading Network" rather than "Computer Instant Messaging".

      That would be 3 different letters, too.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by gaspyy ( 514539 )
      I think it's different from country to country. My European country is 100% Yahoo. No one is using MSN - no one. Skype is used for voice, but that's it.

      UK on the other hand seems MSN to me. I have some friends over there and all of them are on MSN.

    • AOL in the US (Score:3, Informative)

      by sentientbrendan ( 316150 )
      Things like IM are all about what social group you are in.

      In the united states, AIM is still by far the most widely used chat protocol
      http://www.bigblueball.com/forums/general-other-im -news/34413-im-market-share.html [bigblueball.com]

      AIM is actually pretty nifty if you don't try to use the new clients from AOL (which installs crap in the backgrount). Most people I know either have an old version of AIM (installers for every version are available online) or use third party clients like trillian, gaim/pidgin/adium.

      Google's tr

  • hmm. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by apodyopsis ( 1048476 ) on Wednesday September 05, 2007 @06:03PM (#20487567)
    It worked for them last time, and then only just. This time with most businesses staying away from Vista and many home users avoiding it because of compatibility issues, I think they sound slightly petulant and desperate.

    However - the engineer in me reckons this is more about them wanting to support less platforms and trying to "get rid" (or obsolete) the older ones as fast as they possibly can.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by jnf ( 846084 )
      I think your partially right, I know they dislike XP home because it lacks some security features that were available in later editions, but they cant just EOL XP Home; additionally, I think this is yet another attempt at a successful software as a service venture, you can expect a lot of things to have integrated live support over the coming years.

  • oh well (Score:4, Funny)

    by kwabbles ( 259554 ) on Wednesday September 05, 2007 @06:04PM (#20487575)
    wget http://download.microsoft.com/WLinstaller.exe [microsoft.com] ./WLinstaller.exe

    err:module:import_dll Library WINHTTP.dll (which is needed by L"Z:\\home\\kwabbles\\Desktop\\WLinstaller.exe") not found
    err:module:LdrInitializeThunk Main exe initialization for L"Z:\\home\\kwabbles\\Desktop\\WLinstaller.exe" failed, status c0000135

    No worky. Oh well. Back to reading slashdot.

  • Not Vista ... to Windows (Score:5, Informative)

    by Jim Hall ( 2985 ) on Wednesday September 05, 2007 @06:06PM (#20487601) Homepage

    Microsoft is tying its Windows Live services directly to Vista -- a move that should sound vaguely familiar, as it is precisely what the company did to make IE ubiquitous among Internet users. 'A new unified installer for Windows Live services will help users download Wednesday's updates of photo-sharing, mail, instant messaging, online safety and other services, the company said on its Windows Live Wire blog. The new installer also will automatically update those services on Windows Vista and XP going forward.

    I hope I'm not misreading the article, but the summary appears to be incorrect. As I understand the article, Microsoft is integrating Windows Live more within Windows ... but I didn't see that it was being tied specifically to Vista. In fact, the article says "The new installer also will automatically update those services on Windows Vista and XP going forward."

    Call me confused, but I think Windows Live will still install on XP. You don't need to upgrade to Vista to run Windows Live, if you already have XP.

    • Re:Not Vista ... to Windows (Score:5, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 05, 2007 @06:12PM (#20487649)
      Microsoft is integrating various pieces of their software into one downloadable installer. The 'Live Suite' can be installed on both XP and Vista. Think of it as Microsoft's version of the 'Google Pack'.

      The title of this Slashdot thread is FUD.

      • Re:Not Vista ... to Windows (Score:4, Informative)

        by ChatHuant ( 801522 ) on Wednesday September 05, 2007 @07:41PM (#20488495)
        The title of this Slashdot thread is FUD.

        Much to my surprise, this time the FUDsters aren't the slashdotters; the FUD (including the title) is in the FA, which, probably being new here, I did read. The whole article (available here [itworld.com])is pretty much a lot of BS, but it sounded anti-MS enough that it was picked up and dumped on the first page by the crack team of /. editors.

  • Not unusual (Score:2, Insightful)

    by El Lobo ( 994537 )
    It's not unusual, Tom Jones, that a company pushes web services to their current products. Apple does the same with the .Mac services. last time I checked, when you get a mac it comes ready to sign up to the .Mac services. And no, it won't work with OS9m it's ust tied to the latest OSX "whatever cat".

    Google pushes for their gMail, gOffice (or whatever it's name is), just they don't "own" an Os (yet). When they do, besure as hell they will push and tie those service to it. Hell, I'm even tired of their too

    • Re:Not unusual (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Adambomb ( 118938 ) on Wednesday September 05, 2007 @06:27PM (#20487819) Journal
      And which of your counter-examples has been convicted of being illegal monopolies?

      Theres a difference between unethically leveraging a product and illegally leveraging a product.

      Both suck, but both are completely different beasts.
      • Arguably, you err. Windows Vista does not have a monopoly, ergo this is not abuse of a monopoly position. (Arguably.)

  • How does this help Microsoft? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by stoicfaux ( 466273 ) on Wednesday September 05, 2007 @06:07PM (#20487607)

    I understand that making something easy to use makes it more likely to be used. But unless MS force feeds it to you when you boot or install Vista and XP, why would people choose Live over the more established brand names such as MySpace and YouTube?

    MS would need a big marketing push to gain mind share, and I don't think an optional web install will do it.

    • Live isn't just about blogging and videos. It's also about gaming. Think XBL for Windows.
      • Nope, that's a completely different "Live". There's Xbox Live, Windows Live, then Games for Windows Live, which is almost exactly XBL for Windows.

        • Heh, "Live" is starting to remind me of when MS added ".Net" to every product they had. It got to the point that no one knew what ".Net" was or what it was good for.

          How many companies have a well known brand names that covers multiple fields or product areas? Kraft is known for certain food products. Ford is known for cars. I'm pretty sure that most executives would never try to extend the Kraft brand name to include cars, and ditto for Ford and food products. If 'Live' stands for everything, then it

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Tacvek ( 948259 )

          Well actually Xbox Live is the same service as "Games for Windows Live". (one subscription covers both). Windows Live itself is just a rebranding of most of MSN. This seems likely part of a long term strategy to kill off the MSN service entirely. The "Office Live" service is a completely unrelated service. (Not related to any other "Live" service, or even related to Office).

          Also for what it is worth, Microsoft is working to tie the Windows Live and Xbox Live services a bit closer (hence the windows live m

  • I sure hope this doesn't come as an auto-update, magically appearing on my XP machine one morning asking me to sign up for all these Live services I don't want. MSN Messenger is annoying enough, just deciding to be there one day after an update although I have tried to get rid of it many times.

  • Windows Live - obsolete (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Ethanol-fueled ( 1125189 ) on Wednesday September 05, 2007 @06:10PM (#20487633) Homepage Journal
    I've been using Hotmail since '99, before M$ bought them out. After that, Hotmail (like other M$ products) became slower and more bloated with every "update". Now they can't(or don't want to because of backroom deals) filter out junk mail which goes directly into my inbox because spammers are spoofing my own e-mail address( how irritating )! Then there's the constant "legit" M$ spam which gets into my inbox at least 3-4 times a week no matter what my filter settings are. Fuck that. My primary account is now a Gmail one.
    • I am not getting many spam emails for my hotmail account except those marketing ones from Microsoft itself. I keep this account only because I use msn. I use gmail for real emails. But those Microsoft emails are indeed damn annoying.
      • You don't need to use a hotmail account to keep using MSN. Once you're in, you can change the email (thus your msn ID) to whatever you want. If not for MSN, I don't think anyone would willingly want to use Hotmail anymore nowadays. Be warned that if you don't login to your Hotmail account in 3 months, it will disappear. This surprised me at first, seeing how my Yahoo account was practically untouched for more than two years but still intact.
    • When you've had your GMail email address for as long as you've had your Hotmail address, please email me and tell me you're not getting any spam.

      Spam is certainly not unique to Hotmail users. I pay Postini $2/mo to filter my email, and that only weed out about 95% of it. Yahoo, AOL, Earthlink, their users all get spam too.

      About the only "backroom deal" that Microsoft is likely to get is from Microsoft itself. And one could easily argue that they're entitled to send you their own spam if you're using thei
  • All MS has done is to package their various Live services into one installer that works on Vista or XP. They're not tying it to Vista in any way. I don't see what the big deal is.

  • "in future", not "going forward" (Score:2, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Every time you say "going forward", an MBA gets to downsize a tech geek.

  • Live Monopoly Reflex (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Doc Ruby ( 173196 )
    Microsoft waited until the Feds and seven of 12 states let them off the hook for monpoly noncompliance. Then they flexed the monopoly muscle. And why wouldn't they?

    And why should we stand for it?

    • Re:Live Monopoly Reflex (Score:4, Insightful)

      by dpilot ( 134227 ) on Wednesday September 05, 2007 @07:00PM (#20488117) Homepage Journal
      Well if they were "let off the hook" by the Feds, then clearly the original ruling was in error, and so was this article, for using that legally loaded work, "tying."

      Conclusive evidence of more of that Linux-biased, Microsoft-hating Slashdot meme at work.

      (tongue so far into my cheek that it hurts, on this one.)
  • they're just leveraging the fact that there are many who've been suckered into using Windows Live and now those same people are going to be force fed Microsoft's latest stuff. Now Microsoft can pump up the numbers of users for press releases to make it seem like the world+dog love their shit. You know, just like how they paid off companies like GoDaddy to put parked domains on Windows to pump up MS IIS numbers against Linux/Apache. They also end up with a bunch of beta testers who aren't savvy enough to do

  • these tools are nice (Score:5, Insightful)

    by icepick72 ( 834363 ) on Wednesday September 05, 2007 @07:23PM (#20488337)
    From the perspective of using Windows Vista, I just installed the beta of this optional software, and it's very welcome providing a centralized desktop environment to manage my Live services. Makes life easier and faster. In the end isn't that what software should strive to do?

    • Re: (Score:2, Flamebait)

      by ScrewMaster ( 602015 )
      Makes life easier and faster. In the end isn't that what software should strive to do?

      It's less a matter of what software should strive to do, as it is what Microsoft is striving to do to us with it.
      • I see Microsoft is your enemy, not mine. Do you think Microsoft is trying to do something to us? You are in good company here.

        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          by ScrewMaster ( 602015 )
          I'm one of the people (and there are many on Slashdot) that have been in the computer business since before there was a Microsoft, who have seen the incredible damage that company has done over the years, and who also hope to still be around after Microsoft's hegemony has run its course.

          So is Microsoft an enemy? Depends: if I were a company trying to get into the operating system or office suite business I'd certainly have to contend with the barrier to entry posed by Microsoft. They aren't my personal e
  • WTF would Linux or OSX do with Windows bug fixes?
  • They haven't tied it in as a "critical" update through Windows Update or anything. They're playing by the rules but only barely, and they are definitely testing their boundaries constantly.

    Just makes you think if that whole Netscape antitrust thing hadn't happened just what they could be doing with Windows Update. Firefox Removal Tool as standard? Clippy popping up and saying "It looks like you're dual booting between a sanctioned Windows OS and another, dangerous OS! I've removed the offending partition

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by EraserMouseMan ( 847479 )
      and they are definitely testing their boundaries constantly

      Who wouldn't?

      Who's just going to roll over and die? When somebody lable's you as a monopoly that means that you are an extremely agressive company and doing so well that everybody is scared of you. Why would a company in that situation just give up and let everybody take back their market share? I don't understand why people act surprised that MS would continue to constantly test their boundaries.

  • Huh? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Gavin Scott ( 15916 ) * on Wednesday September 05, 2007 @08:13PM (#20488693)
    Sorry, I RTFA and it was the worst heap of rubbish I've read all day.

    It's author seems to be utterly and completely clueless about everything mentioned.

    There's not a single thing that justifies the word "tying" that I can see. Microsoft have some OPTIONAL add-on set of services that you can install if you feel like it. It's not mandatory and they're not saying it will be. It's no more "tied" to Windows than any other piece of software.

    I think I'm going to start a blog where I too post nonsensical tech stories with headlines solely designed to push the buttons of reactionary Slashdot readers, then clean up on the Google ad income.

    G.
  • Has the news become so slow on a daily basis that all you people can do is try to create controversy where there is none?
  • Can't these tools be uninstalled? Anyone? It just sounds like a regular bunch of software you can opt to install if you wish to me.

  • And? (Score:3, Funny)

    by nurb432 ( 527695 ) on Thursday September 06, 2007 @09:41AM (#20494395) Homepage Journal
    So a manufacturer ties their products together . what a suprise! This was never expected

    Ford or GM doesn't do that, nor does GE.. Yep, this is really surprising.

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