Bush Causes Cell Phone Ban 588
An anonymous reader writes "When President George Bush visits Sydney, Australia for the APEC Summit in September, all cell phone calls within the radius of a football field will be suppressed. The president's motorcade will be shadowed by a helicopter equipped with signal-jamming equipment. Terrorists have used mobile phones to detonate remote-controlled bombs in Iraq and elsewhere in the world." There are other ways to detonate explosives remotely. Doesn't seem like the smartest thing to let potential enemies know of such plans in advance.
Should read... (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Should read... (Score:5, Insightful)
That said, I have no doubts that said helicopter will also take out 802.11 signals because only a really dumb team would jam only mobile signals. As far as I am concerned the only reason these plans have been "leaked" is because people would otherwise be calling their Telco going "WTF MY PHONE DROPPED OUT".
So yeah, ten points for a great idea, but try and think like a terrorist, and then how would you defend against that. I'm happy enough to bash the administration as much as the next guy (personally I think Howard [aussie PM] is a dick, but better than the alternatives), but sometimes we need to step back from the abuse and look at what we're really talking about...
My $0.02 AU
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
That should be obvious: Trigger the bomb by the jamming signal. As soon as the mobile phone doesn't find a network any more, the bomb is triggered. Additional call triggering can be used in case there just happens to be no jamming (in which case calling the phone would obviously work).
Re:Should read... (Score:4, Insightful)
Silly Secret Service, don't you know suicide bombers are for kids? When they realize they can't do it remotely, someone will "martyr" themselves to get the job done. That's the insidiousness of Islamic fascists.
That said, doing something is better than doing nothing. A lot of the complaints here seem to be along the lines of "why lock my car door when someone can steal my stereo by breaking the window anyway?"
It just means you'll be limiting your opponents to only very serious players instead of wannabes.
Re:Should read... (Score:5, Interesting)
There are at least two legitimate concerns:
1) Various fairly obvious terrorist responses to these counter-measures will greatly increase the danger to bystanders without materially reducing the risk to the President.
2) There is some suspicion that this has more to do with making it harder for legitimate democratic protesters to co-ordinate their actions than it does with preventing terrorism.
Whether either of those things is sufficient to trump the needs of presidential security is a matter for debate, unlike the nearly-zero-cost behaviour of locking your car doors to protect your stereo. There is a point where people are going to say, "Enough! We've had it with all the intrusions into our daily lives in the name of counter-terrorist activity. I come from a society that has always valued liberty over security, and this is more than I am willing to give up."
While the particular policy of jamming cell phones is relatively minor, it is symbolic of many other more significant intrusions. [pbs.org]
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Other options would include pressure + presence of jamming signal, noise + presence of jamming signal, motion detector tripped + presence of jamming signal, IR sensor tripped + presence of jamming signal, etc. The jamming signal could s
Re:Should read... (Score:5, Funny)
<obligatory>
</obligatory>Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
That said, I have no doubts that said helicopter will also take out 802.11 signals because only a really dumb team would jam only mobile signals.
On the other hand, there's a lot of spectrum, and if you are planning an assassination, local rules about "assigned frequencies" and "allowable broadcast power" really aren't a concern for the bad guys. An pro-am radio transmitter, tone generator, and a high-powered parabolic antenna (an old satellite dish?) shouldn't add more than $5k (at worst) to the cost of
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
And missionaries. Oh, and capitalists who sailed halfway around the world to make a fortune exploiting your country's natives, taking its natural resources, and killing off your local species one by one.
You know, you Aussies and us Americans have a lot of history in common
"Movie plot" security (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.google.com/search?q=movie+plot+securit
PS: Yes, the Madrid bombers used cell phones to detonate the bombs, but they didn't do it by calling the 'phone. They used the alarm clock function.
PPS: How till this prevent suicide bombers, etc.?
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
But they were hitting a stationary target. In order to get the timing right to hit a moving motorcade they would have to be the luckiest people in the world. Much easier to have someone sitting a block or two away and watching for when the president's car is next to the trashcan or car or whatever they planted the bomb in.
Re:"Movie plot" security (Score:5, Funny)
Homicide bombers, please.
When you dont use the Bush-approved propaganda buzzwords, the terrorists win.
And God kills kittens. Thousands of kittens each time.
Think of the kittens.
Re:Should read... (Score:5, Funny)
*jedi hand movement*
The one they would have loved to print (Score:3, Funny)
Kids! Parents! Let's give Mr. Bush a cheery welcome to Australia! Additional chocolate rations have been approved for minors under the age of 16 wishing to cheer President Bush, these will be available after each event. Ad
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Should read... (Score:5, Insightful)
In my humble opinion, no. We've only had Opportunists. Both parties favor large cash donations from large groups.
Doing the right thing, at this point, will require saying unpopular things, making unpopular decisions, acting out of principle, and self-sacrifice. Honestly, I don't expect that from anyone in Washington.
And on one other note, some people may bash Bush not because he's a Republican, but because he's a HORRIBLE president. Not to mention the only one. Being in the spotlight tends to draw attention from all sides.
(And yes, his being a "horrible" president is an opinion, but I base that opinion based on the facts that he started an unnecessary war, LIED intentionally to start that war, gave people awards for messing up that war, has refered to the Constitution as "just a piece of paper," demonstrated ineptitude to lead under emergencies [See: Initial reaction to 9/11, Katrina], unwillingness to try new methods, or even just give up old ones when they don't work, or even ADMIT that his methods don't work [HOW many times have we heard "we're making progress" in Iraq?], and, intentional or not, the utter genocide of innocent English words. And yes, in nearly every instance listed, he is not FULLY to blame, but he certainly shares credit.)
Re:Should read... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Hopefully, by which I mean "Never gonna happen, but," a good politician could do those things a better way. For example, one of the biggest problems with taxation is the sheer amount of money wasted on... collecting taxes. The way money
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Now, for an ironic twist, an analogy of how society is NOT a car! Our modern society is NOT like a car. When a car breaks down, you can check to make sure each part i
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Australian Security Bans Cell Phones For Bush Visit
I also have to question why this is even worthy of space on this site, especially since the linked story reminds us that this has been done before:
The technology was first used by the US president when Bush attended the APEC summit in Pusan, South Korea, in 2005.
Someone search the
By the way, this is probably a lot more routine tha
Re:Should read... (Score:5, Insightful)
See, it's YOUR preseident. As far as I'm concerned, you can do whatever you wish to help keep him alive: turn off the cell-phone network completely, jam all radio signals imaginable, turn off the GPS, glue everybodies eyelids together, so that nobody can aim a sniper at him - I don't care. AS LONG AS YOU DO IT IN YOUR OWN BACKYARD. Sorry for shouting, but I'm somehow afraid otherwise you won't get it.
Traveling to OTHER countries and terrorizing OTHER people - who never elected Mr. Bush, moreover who very probably don't give a flying fuck about him - by forcing the local authorities to turn off the cell phone network respectively block the traffic along the route he is supposed to take, is what bothers me! He's not the first president of the USA to travel abroad, you know, but for reasons of overblown security measures interfering with other people's lives in very unpleasant ways, he's most probably the least wellcome one.
I just hope no locals will have to pay for this little trip of his with their lives because of not being able to dial an emergency number when neccessary.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
I think he's probably the least welcome US president because he's generally acknowledged around the world to be a complete knob. I doubt the extra security precautions have much to do with it.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Should read... (Score:4, Informative)
For FM receivers, quieting and not RF signal strength is normally measured which is roughly analogous to demodulated signal to noise level or bit error rate. Using a non coherent jamming signal will lower any measured signal strength. You might notice that tuning an FM receiver to an empty channel returns large amounts of demodulated noise and an indication of zero signal strength.
For AM and SSB receivers, signal strength is taken from either the automatic gain control or directly from the signal level. A jamming signal will directly show up in the signal strength indicator just like it would with a spectrum analyser.
Cell phones of course using complex modulation encompassing both FM and AM could read signal strength in any number of ways. If I were designing a jamming system, I would rely on using a denial of service through the base stations with or without cooperation first, jamming the control frequencies second, and jamming the data channels third.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I don't know if I had any bars or not. All I know is that when I punched in the number and hit the button to dial, I got nothing. For the sake of my friend down below, I'll make it clearer:
I couldn't make a cell phone call. I don't know why. I don't know if the signal was jammed or the amps were shut off or if T-Mobile just has lousy signal service in that stadiu
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Yes. Since the emergency number in Australia is 000.
Sure its not exclusive (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Also, let's hope that nobody has any emergencies while they wait for Bush to pass by...
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
Maybe I shouldn't have said that
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I don't see why he should need all this security though, even if the worst does happen and someone blows him sky high it's not like he's even remotely irreplacable and someone else can take over his job a couple of hours later withou
Re:Sure its not exclusive (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Sure its not exclusive (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Sure its not exclusive (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Well, most of the big terrorist acts in the late years involved people who bombed themselves together with the bomb.
To kill Bush, you'll find enough people ready to die for the chance to do it. If you don't care for your life, there are hundreds of w
Just curious (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
The propaganda has had its effect on you, then. But some of us are still resisting it.
Re:Just curious (Score:4, Insightful)
Nothing screams low key approach... (Score:2, Funny)
Wasn't Bush given a mobile phone after 9/11?
How would they inform him if a problem occurs?
Re:Nothing screams low key approach... (Score:4, Funny)
Helicopter (Score:5, Funny)
Oh wait that's right - it won't matter.
Re:Helicopter (Score:4, Interesting)
Most of the heavy troop transports still sound like they do in movies about Vietnam, but the light ones and most of the attack helicopters are very quiet once they get up to speed. Presumably the one assigned to Bush will be flying high enough to keep the rotor wash from mussing his hair so I doubt the crowd will hear it at all.
It really is spooky to look over your shoulder and see an attack helicopter floating a couple hundred yards away when you had to idea it was even there.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
The most quiet helo in the US Army inventory would probably be the A/MH-6, but that's only in the SOAR TO&E.
Re:Helicopter (Score:4, Funny)
Especially when you aren't anywhere near a war zone or military base, and it happens repeatedly as you're leaving work or headed to the movies. What do you want from me, Mysterious Apache Pilot?!
Helicopter? (Score:4, Funny)
I'm just hoping it's not black, for the sake of the tinfoil-hat crowd...
Re: (Score:2)
Only the mind control ray helicopters are black. Sheesh, I thought everyone knew this already!
I've wondered about this... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:I've wondered about this... (Score:5, Informative)
Obviously the digital communication required to uniquely address the ESN of the phone, do the proper handshaking, and inform the phone that there is an incoming call is quite complex. The odds of a jamming signal being mistaken for the exact trunk-side communication required to indicate a call is infinitesimally small.
Dan East
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Typically? Where did you get the stats? :)
My phone provider sends me an SMS every now and then, and I get about one call a month by somebody who mistyped someone else's phone number. I wouldn't want to risk that while assembling or placing a bomb. The couple of cheap phones that I've owned don't have an option to switch the vibrator off for everything except calls from certain known phone numbers.
Re:I've wondered about this... (Score:4, Interesting)
Dan East
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Cellphone bomb FUD news (Score:2, Informative)
I regularly read articles about terrorists using cell phones to trigger bombs. The Thai government seems to be particularly worried about this; two years ago I blogged about a particularly bizarre movie-plot threat along these lines. And last year I blogged about the cell phone network being restricted after the Mumbai terrorist bombings.
Source [schneier.com]
Re: (Score:2)
Isn't it wonderful that the terrorists have time to prepare now with so much warning? This is a movie plot threat straight out of James Bond. Security theatre at best.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
On Schneier's blog today on this topic there was one smart commenter with an interesting idea. What the terrorists should do is still rig a phone up to a bomb that detonates a second after phone signal is lost. This way you can plant a bomb and you know you only need to blow up an area the size of a football field!
Isn't it wonderful that the terrorists have time to prepare now with so much warning? This is a movie plot threat straight out of James Bond. Security theatre at best.
It is conceivable that someone might be able to conceal a bomb along the motorcade route big enough to blow up Bush's limo as it passes by. A bomb big enough to blow it up while a football field length away should easily be detected by security when they pre-sweep the area along the route.
But seriously (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Don't take the propaganda bait by lumping in legitmate activists with those who destroy property and incite riots.
Re:But seriously (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I'll tell you what. You tell me how much damage you would expect a 50,000 person RIOT to do in downtown seattle. Personally, I'm pretty sure if 50,000 people RIOTED, seattle would have been left a smoking ruin.
Then compare that to any accounts of real damage done. Pay attention to any pictures you find, make sure they aren't of the same few stores actually.
I think, if you aren't a fool, you'll realize that for a 50,000 protest, very, very little damage was done. The police
Comment removed (Score:3, Insightful)
A more useful application (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:A more useful application (Score:5, Funny)
I say we just punch the fuckers.
wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong... (Score:5, Insightful)
There are a lot of us who DO really have to have cellphones and pagers active 24x7, who are also smart and polite enough to put them on vibrate only, and to leave the theater if we need to respond. And, no, I'm not just talking geeks. That includes members of the medical and law enforcement professions, as well, where receiving an unexpected page or call really may be critical, and yes (not trying to be melodramatic), might just save someone's life.
Stop thinking technology is the answer to what is a SOCIAL problem. Grow a spine, and hold people responsible for their actions and their effect upon others around them, rather than trying to hide behind a bad technological band aid.
The answer is NOT to restrict the use of technology for those who use it properly, but to throw the asshats who are disruptive out of the theater, regardless of whether or not they happen to have a phone, or a pager.
(God forbid that anyone should actually have any personal responsibility, or actually have to confront someone obnoxious.)
</rant>
We now return you to your regularly scheduled pithy remarks about the idiocy of using this technology to attempt to protect a man so (deservedly) loathed that they think something like this might actually be necessary. I, of course, refer to the continuing dissemination of FUD, not the jamming, per se.
Speaking of more than one way... (Score:5, Informative)
Sounds pretty mild (Score:5, Interesting)
The heavy handed approach is a really good way to make a very poor impression with the citizens of nation you are visiting.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
The same thing happened when he visited Vienna (Austria), my home town. Vienna is one of the safest cities in the world, but that day we heard the sound of helicopters non-stop, and there was a general uneasiness in the air, probably caused by the many radio and TV announcements. The US Secret Service took over the city, the airport, etc, and the local police were told to aid them and follow th
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I don't know how he travels about in the US but I'm sure that Sydney isn't inherently any more dangerous than Washington ( how many terrorist attacks have there been in Australia ? ) so if y
911 (Score:5, Funny)
If you're that hated then stay home George (Score:2)
Sounds like a disaster waiting to happen (Score:2)
Scene: Sydney Australia (Score:2)
(Presidential motorcade passing by)
Secret Service Agent: (Opens cell phone) "Hello, get me Jack Bauer.
Hang on... (Score:4, Insightful)
So much for mobile phone radio frequencies interfering with saftey-critical avionics! I guess milirtary helicopters don't have the most vulneable equipment (namely the credit card readers in seatback phones).
In other news: President stung to death by bees driven into a frenzy by mobile phone radiation... (Yes, yes I know the mobile phones affect bees thing has been debuinked).
I for one welcome our... (Score:2)
Iraq (Score:2)
Now the bombs look for the LACK of cell phone signals to go off.
This is stupid.
Why not a UAV? (Score:2)
Not the smartest thing? (Score:2)
Well, this is George W. Bush we're talking about
bah, let Bush do what he wants (Score:2)
Does it matter..... (Score:2, Informative)
Too easy to turn around on them.... (Score:2)
2. Attach a mobile phone running windows mobile
3. Attach triggering to a process which polls a website, if it can't reach the website it sets the timer to go off in 30 seconds.
4. Jamming devices blocks cel signal..
5. 30 second countdown to detonation activates, giving enough time for the motorcade to get closer.
And letting people know about this ahead of time is the worst part... I'm not a huge fan of security through obscurity, but there's a difference between being obscure and telegraphing y
The symbolism is gorgeous (Score:5, Insightful)
His "legacy" practically writes itself.
Famous quote (Score:3, Insightful)
Just do it with a little more finesse
If you can slip a tablet into someone's coffee
Then it avoids an awful lot of mess
I guess the point of terrorism is to make a really big bang, not just commit "murder by numbers".
American or Australian? (Score:5, Funny)
Seriously, though, can't we just use yards or meters? I don't know about other countries, but here in the U.S. we spend more mental energy envisioning big rotating or end-to-end football fields around or next to things.
Schneier's Comments (Score:4, Interesting)
Also, hopefully noone has an actual emergency while this thing is going past. I'd hate for someone to have a heart attack or be trying to call in a fire or something and not be able to use their cell phone. Or dial for the police in case they see suspicious people near the motorcade. You know, like people with beards.
They have won! (Score:3, Funny)
So America Wizened up... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Uhm.. (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Wrong. You can't stop *everyone* who wants to kill bush, assuming infinite. It is child's play to stop one person - look for the guy with the big missile launcher and arrest him before he can get a lock. Stopping anyone is easy. Stopping everyone is the challenge.
Oh, and so far the secret service has a pretty good record. One presidential death since they have been guarding
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
--
Censored by Technorati [blogspot.com]
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
You're thinking of Cheney...
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I think we would be better off in the US president just stays in the USA where he is safe and people love him.
You may be thinking of Bill Frist (Score:3, Interesting)
Of course, it's also possible that you're not thinking at all, that you're trying to use "Slashdot thinks Republican leaders would kill kittens" as some sort of slur against Slashdot, because you didn't know that until a few months ago Senate Republicans were in fact led by a man who killed kittens. For future irony, I suggest accusing the anti-Bush crowd of thinking tha