Paint Provides Network Protection 262
thefickler writes "Forget WEP and WPA; I'm switching over to the EM-SEC Coating System, a recently announced paint developed by EM-SEC Technologies that acts as an electromagnetic fortress, allowing a wireless network to be contained within painted walls without fear of someone tapping in or hacking wireless networks. The EM-SEC Coating System is clearly the most secure option aside from stringing out the CAT5, and can be safely used to protect wireless networks in business and government facilities."
Blocking EM eh... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Blocking EM eh... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Blocking EM eh... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Blocking EM eh... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Blocking EM eh... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Blocking EM eh... (Score:5, Informative)
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A quick google reveals this [lessemf.com]
There's no doubt more.
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"Wait....a luddite website??? Isn't that an oxymoron?"
Sure it is, and it fits right in with this article about tin-foil paint.
My windows blocked radio waves (Score:4, Interesting)
My solution was to build a double-paned window out of two sheets of clear acrylic separated with spacers and insulated all the way around with foam tape. I cut it to fit the open window perfectly and unless you looked very carefully, you'd never notice that the "real" window was wide open and the "fake" window was filling the space. It was well-insulated enough even in the winter that the heat loss was no problem. But the important thing was that the satellite signals passed through the acrylic with no problem, and I was probably the only person in the whole complex to have satellite TV. Plus, I earned geek points for having a working satellite dish on my living room floor. Yes, I was single at the time; why do you ask? Heh...
Typical attempt to get government to spend oodles (Score:5, Insightful)
In this case: WPA (and many other layers of encryption) = free. Painting a building with special paint = £$massive.
What's scary is that someone from a government department will mandate this kind of tosh - and suddenly every government building (including leisure centres) will have to have it.
Of course, the irony is that - once they get paint like this, people will feel overly secure - reduce the more sensible types of encryption - and then leave the loading bay doors open, right next to a wireless repeater, pouring forth their unencrypted secrets.
Re:Typical attempt to get government to spend oodl (Score:2)
Hey, maybe they should paint theaters with this stuff...
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Hey, maybe they should paint theaters with this stuff...
Fuck that, I'm all for painting cars belonging to people caught using cellphones while driving with this crap. I mean, windows and everything. Maybe we could arrange a dunking vat, you know, for quick, easy and thorough radio-wave proofing.
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Not just governments -- PHBs everywhere. (Score:3, Insightful)
To be pithy, the ultimate problem is "zeal without knowledge" -- or, to be a bit
Oh, bullshit... (Score:4, Insightful)
Here's a thought for you: any good defense is built in layers. So if one layer fails, the others are there to prevent a complete catastrophe. This doesn't mean they won't enable encryption, maybe even an extra layer of encryption on top of WPA, it means that they'll _also_ have a physical EM shielding layer to pick the slack if someone made a mistake.
Additionally, the army has a long history of using and dealing with counter-measures. You don't see people trying to actively jam your home network, but in case of a war, that's exactly what the army might have to deal with. Whether actual pure jamming, or just an EMP from a nuke frying all your electronics, if the shit hits the fan big time. So when that happens, you'd rather most of it was shortcircuited by the building being a big Faraday cage.
Additionally, the army has to deal with EM radiation out of the building in more ways than some wardriver surfing for porn on your home network. It can be someone intentionally placing a transmitter somewhere, to some spy leaking the encryption keys, to being basically tagged for an EM seeking missile. While a Faraday cage won't make any of those 100% impossible, it gives you one extra chance against it. E.g., if someone left the door open near a repeater, you can notice you suddenly detect EM radiation around a building that was supposed to have none. E.g., sure, someone could climb on the roof and place their emitter for the missile there, but there's a chance someone will see them, whereas a modified laptop/clock/whatever in a drawer might not even get noticed until it's set to activate at midnight in anticipation for an enemy strike. Etc.
Additionally, the army is a bigger target than your home network. A wardriver will just go for whatever unsecured network is in the neighbourhood, and not even bother to crack your encryption. You're not worth it. You're one of millions of networks, each perfectly equivalent to any other, for his purposes. Even with the old WEP, chances are noone stood around long enough to gather packets and crack your keys, because, again, it wasn't worth the effort. A spy isn't as easily deterred. He won't go for Aunt Emma's home network instead. And he can devote disproportionate computing power and manpower to cracking the codes of a potential enemy superpower.
Of course, you can stick your head in the sand, put a big "WAP can't ever be cracked" poster and feel secure. What if you're wrong? Even for WEP it took two years for the vulnerability to be published. Plus, for the standard WW2 example, the Germans didn't think Enigma had been cracked either. (Nor did the civillians in most allied countries, for that matter. It was top secret.) What if some bright chinese mathematician comes up with some brilliant new way to decrypt it? Would you rather bet on that never happening, _or_ have an extra layer of defense just in case? Because from where I stand, given high enough stakes, the latter looks like the much smarter choice.
Basically, get your head out of the ass, and out of the "I'm teh genius, anyone doing things otherwise than me is automatically an idiot" mentality. Most often that should just be your hint that you don't actually understand what's happening there, and you're operating on just wild assumptions and pseudo-data pulled out of the ass to support that "I'm teh genius" preconception. And, as they say: Garbage In, Garbage Out.
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Cell phones are all lower frequency
From 800 MHz to 1.9 GHz
(and something about 450MHz, but that isn't common)
Don't you think they can limit their product to 2.4 GHz +/- 500 MHz?
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Not with 'simple paint'. This could be done with panels of circuit board material with structures that resonate at 2.4 GHz.
Re:Blocking EM eh... (Score:5, Insightful)
From 800 MHz to 1.9 GHz
(and something about 450MHz, but that isn't common)
Don't you think they can limit their product to 2.4 GHz +/- 500 MHz?
That stuff is THICK. (Score:3, Interesting)
Did you say six mils ? I think people aren't understanding how thick that is. That is one whoppingly heavy coat of paint.
That's not really "paint," that's more like a sprayed-on or rolled-on coating. Just to compare, that's like seven layers of household (0.02mm) aluminum foil.
Now, maybe it's still easier to put up than gluing sheets of a solid material in place, but the quantity of this stuff that's going to be required to coat a large space is going to be enormous. And unless it has
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Imagine sharing a wall with a doctor and you e
Re:Blocking EM eh... (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:Blocking EM eh... (Score:5, Insightful)
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yes, no, maybe ... (Score:3, Insightful)
It is one thing when a person in a cinema uses their phone - lack of education. And it is another thing when someone receives an SMS, being notified by vibra, without disturbing anyone. What if the SMS bears news about an emergency, or something that is of a critical importance?
Do you think it is 'cool' when you have a problem and your doctor is notified via SMS while they're watching a movie in a cinema or having dinner in a
Re:yes, no, maybe ... (Score:5, Insightful)
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You are the admin of a small company, the only person who knows the passwords and is able to solve the technical problems that can occur there. Like any other human being, you're enjoying your weekend, watching a movie at the cinema.
Obviously, there are armies of admins who *know* the stuff, but will any of them be able to deal with that particular task in a reasonable amount of time?
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Lawsuits... (Score:5, Funny)
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Nice painted windows? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Nice painted windows? (Score:4, Informative)
A physical barrier is not security through obscurity.
it _is_ security through obscurity (Score:2)
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A more likely situation is that a few years down the road a company grows and needs more space . The leasing agency who owns the building (re)moves a non-load bearing wall and rents them some more space from the unit next door. No one remembered that the company had this paint on and now you have an open wall. Could even happen with the traditional methods.
I'm even willing to speculate that because the other 3 walls
Just run the damn cable. (Score:5, Insightful)
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Lead? (Score:2)
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Re:Lead? (Score:4, Informative)
1) Can be made into a paint
2) Conducts radio waves (this is a Faraday Cage [wikipedia.org] for radio waves)?
The answer is no. Most metals conduct radio waves to some degree, just like most can conduct all EM radiation. There are quite a number to choose from that are harmless to humans. Lead is the big choice because its so dense, but we're not talking about nuclear radiation here (and more importantly, we're not talking about nuclear particles, which are stopped by other matter getting in the way, not just by conductive materials). We're not blocking the EM equivalent of a truck - just a series of tubes.
I can see a way around the window/door thing as well.
Put enough conductive material into the Windows and you'll get the same effect. In addition, there are some shapes you can make the entryways (again using principals of a Faraday cage) that will cause the radio waves to tend not to reflect out.
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better than aluminum/aluminium foil hats (Score:5, Funny)
it could also protect against cell phone brain cancer
It isn't as easy as painting the walls (Score:2, Informative)
Wave Guides (Score:4, Interesting)
Since the video projector can't be in the room... they created a wave guide which is a metal tube of a size (width and length) that doesn't allow anything harmful in or out of the room (electro-magnetically speaking) but is effectively a literal hole in the wall that they can project through. In some studies about taste they can also run long tubes filled with "flavors" so that they can allow a person in the scanner to "taste" while being scanned.
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As long as the length of the gaps are much less than that size. A gap that is, say, 2mm wide and 12.5 cm long will make one very nice slot radiator. s another poster pointed out, ground wires are only effective if they are much shorter than a quarter wavelength.
Not a security solution! (Score:4, Interesting)
As before, proper authentication and confidentiality is the route to a secure wireless network,
Really? (Score:5, Funny)
Maybe I should read the article or the summary for more detail.
Nah...
But MS Paint... (Score:5, Funny)
What about EMP? (Score:5, Interesting)
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Long Answer: It might reduct the affects on items not plugged in, but in general an EMP bomb goes off near your house, it will come in through the power or phone lines. I remember reading somewhere about bunkers that are EMP shielded have internal power sources and having communications with fiber optic lines to the outside world in order to prevent the EMP shock coming in that way.
Maybe if your house had tinfoil over the windows, underground power lines, Verizon FiOS, and this paint... Then
Really funny (Score:3, Informative)
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For certain businesses (restaurants, cinemas, hospitals) that might actually be a GOOD thing...
SNAKE OIL (Score:2)
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No it isn't. It is inversely proportional to distance squared.
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Coatings are Becoming More Popular (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Coatings are Becoming More Popular (Score:5, Interesting)
This place has a "safe room" too, but it's just the place where they put new plastic products coming into the house for a month or two to let them outgas most of their VOCs. I get my chuckles about it, and I'm not allowed to go there if I put on deodorant that day, but I have to admit that the air quality in there is superb. Placebo or not, I always feel better after working there for a day.
MS Paint (Score:4, Funny)
very useful indeed (Score:2)
Sure (Score:2)
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If NASA can receive data from a ~10 watt transmitter at a distance of 10 billion miles, I'm sure that it's possible for someone to read the leakage from any signals inside the building from a distance of 1 block, no matter how much "shielding" is slapped onto the walls.
I'm not so sure - the product is described as "Multi-layer" and a "System" So I don't actually know how they are doing it... is it really Liguid only, or is it an adhesive to roll on aluminum matting that is then grounded? The article is very light on details. However, the Company website claims TEMPEST certification for the product. If that claim is true, then NASA would not be able to read those transmission through that wall. However, if the TEMPEST claim is true, then the side speculation elsewhere
Diminishing Returns (Score:2)
Let's take wireless in a corporation, for example. There's a great value-add to having wireless in places like conference rooms - and as I've found in my work, even in the cube-realm. I can take my laptop into any office and stay connected. It's so nice that I've given up use of a PDA for the first time in 6 years or so, and no more need to sync.
Anyways, from my experience the corporation knows about the flaws in wireless and would love to be able to ensure that
Tag: Snakeoil (Score:2)
I think the idea is stupid. I hope they didn't blow much VC money with this.
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Let's say you have a need for wireless in a data center. Most data centers I've been to have 0 windows - windows just aren't energy efficient enough to have in a data center; in addition, if someone wanted in from the outside, they'd just smash a window. Those servers would start to look like gold to a thief.....
Anyways, any secured area that you might want a specific network on wireless could have
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And ofcourse building a faraday cage would be just as efficient, but it's always
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It's not much of a security concern, because breaking into a data center on the 8th floor is tricky enough that you couldn't do it fast enough for the security guards not to notice.
NOW, I suppose, you could rapell down 10 stories from the roof, come in through the windows, and kill all the security guards one by one as they came to i
Travis, you're years too late (Score:2)
Not too useful for many people, I suppose. I mean, a properly secured wireless network with a sensible admin should be able to monitor break ins. For stuff you want to restrict on site, Cat-5 (or -6) works pretty well, and there's much less RF crap to shield
Just use foil wallpaper (Score:2)
Even one wall/side it works (or stops ppl working) (Score:3, Interesting)
So I asked for wires to every room and one wireless spot in the middle, the DECT repeater in the hallway not far off was enough to get good reception in every room.
A week before they change places I checkt the new cables, new fiber to the spot, the wireless, it all works.
The day they move, I get scrambled calls about the wireless not working properly and the phones even worse.
What happened? The last day the creative head decided everybody needed one or more magneticly painted walls so they can hang work/memos/etc without having leaving little holes in the wall everytime.
So I needed a new DECTrepeater (and new cables from the PABX, which would have cost a little extra when the fiber was laid in place; but now costs as much for the work) and even now 3 rooms down the phone service isn't great, wireless in those rooms sucks.
Just put WiFi router in basement (Score:2)
Yeah yeah yeah...so it ain't perfect and maybe someone could use a super-sensitive receiver, but if someone is gonna try that hard to snif
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Huh? just discovered? (Score:3, Informative)
painted my daughters room with it OVER 3 YEARS AGO and it does the exact same thing. we lost cellphone coverage in that room (aluminum screens and storm windows complete the circuit)
The overpriced paint mentioned in that article and I have see elsewhere for the tinfoil-hat crowd is no better than the el-cheapo rustoleium primer applied as 3 coats so that fridge magnets happily adhere to the wall.
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I'm not sure the stereotypical Slashdot geek would like this solution though - a gallon can of that primer was bloody heavy! Plus mixing it wasn't exactly a picnic...
Inside Job (Score:2)
Oh, and there are those pesky doors and windows to deal with too.
But look at the bright side, you cant be paged or get a SMS call when the servers go down.
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Who is going to work in a office that has chicken wire over the windows?
Regulatory nit-pickery.... (Score:2)
Let's hope it blocks cell phones. (Score:2)
define "safely"? (Score:2)
Funny, I work for the government and there is no directive saying that we can install wireless if we use EM-shielding paint. We still have to do far more fancy things to secure our wireless infrastructure.
This is a nice slashvertisement, though.
Probably doesn't work. (Score:2)
This is probably ineffective against anyone with a decent antenna. All it takes is a slot bigger than a wavelength and RF will leak through. You might not be able to pick up the leak with the tiny omnidirectional antenna on a laptop, but a directional antenna, even the classic Pringles can, will provide significantly more gain.
Real TEMPEST-shielded rooms [panashield.com] are solid steel, with welded seams, mesh over any opening, fiber optic data connections, filters on the power, and an airlock-type arrangement with co
Unless the whole building meets the governments (Score:2)
http://www.fas.org/irp/program/security/tempest.h
MS Paint! (Score:2)
cmon, it is one of MS's best programs yet after all...
More specifics and less hype? What is it made of? (Score:2)
It seems that this would have a lot of applications beyond simple WiFi blocking and should block or reduce RF in general. I'd like to know the spectrum it has
Cool! (Score:2)
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Re:What about windows? (Score:5, Funny)
Most Slashdotters already live in homes without Windows.
Re:What about windows? (Score:5, Funny)
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That would be defenestrate. De-fenestrate is quite different :p
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i wont be using windows again on any personal machine of mine, im certain of that.
Re:What about windows? (Score:5, Funny)
What are you talking about? Windows COMES with Paint, with Linux, you're stuck with this thing called GIMP.
Wait, what are we talking about? I'm confused now.
(Seriously, when I first read the article headline, I thought they did mean MS Paint and couldn't figure out why that would help with network protection. Then I read the summary and figured it out.)
Re:What about windows? (Score:5, Funny)
Huh. I guess they're good for something after all.
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Assumed MS Paint.
Was already forming snarky comment about dipping a RJ-45 connector in primer to give network security.
Now I feel more and less stupid at the same time.