Looking Back at Open Source in 2005 112
bhmit1 writes "BusinessWeek is reporting on the open source progress in 2005. Their conclusion: "in 2005, the software movement finally gained traction in Corporate America and saw a new influx of VC cash." Has the shift in corporate america really occurred or are activities like the profitability of Red Hat signalling that the CEO's are still holding on to the old way of business?"
It's about time (Score:5, Funny)
Re:It's about time (Score:5, Insightful)
Training costs will exist wether you convert to opensource or not, when you upgrade your proprietary software there will also be retraining costs associated.
Support costs may increase temporarily whenever anything new is introduced, and will settle down once people get used to it. This goes for proprietary software and even hardware too.
External support costs are likely to decrease, since companies will have to compete with each other to provide OSS support, whereas a proprietary vendor pretty much has a monopoly on support of their own products..
Conversion costs will also occur in any case under oss or proprietary software, when the upgrade cycle occurs every few years..
Future conversion/upgrade costs are likely to be much lower, since opensource software typically adheres to standards and is easy to replace with other standards compliant software.
Open source doesn't force you to upgrade, if you have an external support-provider who is willing to continue supporting a 10 year old version of linux you've no reason to replace it unless you WANT to. On the other hand, support vendors for proprietary software can't provide you any fixes without the original vendor's help.
To give some insight, i provided a few NAT/Email boxes to a few local businesses in 1997.. These boxes run redhat 4.x and typically sat on a pstn dialup when first installed.. These companies pay every month, and i patch the systems against any security flaws if necessary, and update them to handle new types of network connection (dsl etc).. I also add/remove users etc, if requested..
These boxes just provide a nat gateway, and email services so users behind the gateway can read their mail.. Aside from a couple of hardware failures (no real issue since everything is backed up) nothing has gone wrong with these machines, and they're still patched up and secure.
Re:It's about time (Score:1)
Re:It's about time (Score:2)
Since when have cost savings ever been passed on to the consumer? In reality, they're passed on to the CEO as a bonus, and maybe to the stock holders.
Re:It's about time (Score:1)
huh (Score:5, Insightful)
Old way of business = profit. New way of business = ???
Seriously that doesn't make sense. Surely Red Hat's profitability indicates that they have a handle on the new way of doing business.
Re:huh (Score:2, Insightful)
1. Step 1
2. Step 2
3. ?????
4. Profit!
Re:huh (Score:5, Insightful)
So the better business model for larger organizations would have a stronger IT organization that has enough capacity to understand the applications they are implementing and provide support internally.
For smaller organizations, I think they are better served by getting a local resource that they can call for problems and that performs a checkup a few times a year just like that organization would do with legal and accounting services.
And for the record, I don't think we've crossed the threshold yet, but it's interesting to see what the business types are watching.
Re:huh (Score:3, Interesting)
We have not, as you said, reached that point yet. I work for a "smaller" organization, and we have a terrible time finding support for OSS applications, even when we pay for it. No one local (and we're in a city of 1,000,000+) has even as much expertise as we do, and it's
Re:huh (Score:1, Redundant)
Knowledge ends? It's open source. You have the code. If you don't know C (or perl or whatever), find someone who does. There is no such thing as knowledge "ending" with open source, you are limited only by your own ability to read and learn. Certainly, if I was paying for support for open source s
Re:huh (Score:2)
That would be adding to one's knowledge. Until one does the work to do that, one's knowledge has ended.
Re:huh (Score:2)
Re:huh (Score:2)
Oh, I'm all for stronger IT departments.
But even so, the logic is inescapable: if every nearly user spends several man weeks figuring out how to do some common things like get function A to work with function B, it makes sense to outsource this, in the form of getting documentation written, streamlining the ad
Sign of succes I guess (Score:3, Interesting)
Red Hat perhaps shows that you can make money from Opensource software. IBM already knows this. You give the software away for free. Then charge them their first born for support. Business never changes. Buy cheap sell dear. Nothing is cheaper then opensource, an
This year... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:This year... (Score:1)
Re:This year... (Score:1)
*ducks from Linus' flaming sword of... well, flaming*
Re:This year... (Score:1)
Be happy, not excited (Score:5, Insightful)
The market is still dubious about open source and for good reason. The big players, the ones pushing around 400 billion dollars, still control the legal avenues and we've seen that the legal avenues are being used in many ways to hedge out the OSS players. If $400 million in VC was invested in OSS startups then it really was venture capital in the truest sense of the term.
I'm happy to see OSS getting a foot in the door but I'm not going to break out the champagne and glasses until we see some real reform on both the business and political fronts.
Re:Be happy, not excited (Score:2)
2005 saw overall growth in OSS. It isnt going to overtake the world, but it is a step in the right direction.
Re:Be happy, not excited (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Be happy, not excited (Score:5, Informative)
10^12
The original meaning, established in the 15th century, was "a million of a million" (1,000,000^2, hence the name billion), or 10^12 = 1 000 000 000 000. This system, known in French as the échelle longue ("long scale"), was formerly used in the United Kingdom and is used in most countries where English is not the primary language. 10^12 is referred to as a trillion in the "short scale" system .
10^9
In the late 17th century a change was made in the way of writing large numbers. Numbers had been separated into groups of six digits, but at this time the modern grouping of three digits came into use. As a result, a minority of Italian and French scientists began using the word "billion" to mean 10^9 (one thousand million, or 1 000 000 000), and correspondingly redefined trillion and higher numbers to mean powers of one thousand rather than one million. This is known in French as the échelle courte ("short scale") and is now officially used by English-speaking countries, as well as Brazil, Puerto Rico, Turkey and Greece.
Learn something new every day (Score:1)
The real value of Teh Intarweb.
Re:Be happy, not excited (Score:1)
Re:Be happy, not excited (Score:1)
Re:Be happy, not excited (Score:1, Redundant)
Re:Be happy, not excited (Score:1)
Well, not in British terms, where a billion is one million million (10^12).
Re:Be happy, not excited (Score:2)
$400 million = 8,000 jobs (Score:2)
That is not a lot in the global IT business, but when you consider that in order to be paid to develop open source you usually need to be a *lot* better than an average programmer, and when you consider that such programmers are significantly more productive (10 times or more) than average programmers, we're talking about a large sli
Re:Be happy, not excited (Score:2)
Support is King (Score:5, Insightful)
IBM learned long ago that ongoing support generates a constant revenue stream.
That lesson was not lost on Novell, Redhat and I believe Ubuntu is following the same path
I think that we will see the application services and support companies running up the revenue stream. However, it takes talented people to seed this activity; one with a proven track record. I have been told that a VC looks briefly at the business plan, just to see it is thorough, knowing full well that as soon as the business opens it's doors, that plan will change as the prime movers identify the hot market needs.
So the quality of the people in the enterprise, and their successes is what gathers the most attention from the VC. It is the people that will make or break the business.
Re:Support is King (Score:1)
With the $1 billion dollars they supposedly invested in Linux development a year or two ago, they could have funded RedHat for ~ 7 years..
IBM is not the good guy. IMO, they are the #2 bad guy. They just spend tons of $$ on marketing to make them sound good.B ut when you look through the fluff they throw out there, very little of their m
Re:Support is King (Score:1)
Yes, but IBM makes its support money by installing crappy software and then charging $325/hr for support (see this story http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2005/9/27/95759/4240 [kuro5hin.org] ). Is this a catch-22 for open source software: if their software is good (bug-free) then the support money won't materialize; but if the software is bad every one will run back to Windows.
Re:Support is King (Score:2)
The reason IBM is making tons of support on Lotus Notes is because *normal* email clients don't require support at all. (Note: I know Exchange servers need support, I'm talking about clients.) The stock reply to any gripe about Lotus Notes' crappy featureset or bugs is "your users need more training." Hmm, where do you get training for Notes? Well, IBM offers consultants for it...
Needless to say, I think what IBM is doing is wrong. The real shame
Companies want someone to yell at! (Score:5, Insightful)
The reason why open source vendors who act more like "real" companies do well is because corporate IT absolutely demands that they have someone to complain to when everything goes to hell. Imagine you're the CIO of a 25,000 person company who depends on its IT systems to make money. I think you'd be foolish to trust that the crew of experts you hired is going to stick around, and be able to solve any problem that comes up. Sooner or later, something high-profile will die. Who do you call??
Companies like Red Hat enforce standards in an open source world that really doesn't have very many. They sell RHEL with the promise that you'll get tech support as long as you use their packages and software. That's a compelling argument. One thing I've been impressed with is commercial vendors' ability to call in massive amounts of help when a real emergency occurs. Red Hat, Novell, etc. are capable of that. Even if you have a support agreement with the makers of fooPackage, which happens to be the crucial link in your business process, can they guarantee that they'll work with you as long as it takes to solve a problem. Worse yet, let's say it's a multi-level problem between fooPackage, barPackage and blahPackage. Now you've got "dualing vendors" on your hands all saying "it's not our problem." Not that that doesn't happen in the commercial world, but a commercial OS vendor (Sun, Microsoft, IBM, etc.) is helpful in mediating those fights.
The Red Hats and the Novells are going to be the ones who finally get a Linux desktop on the market. That's because they'll pick one office suite, tweak the hell out of it, and make it a standard akin to MS Office. Companies want to know that their training dollars aren't going to be wasted. Most users learn one software package to do their jobs, memorize the commands, and will not readily learn anything new. That's what the Linux desktop is up against.
Re:Companies want someone to yell at! (Score:3)
I'm not going to say that people don't use this as an argument against F/OSS, but it doesn't hold water. The Big Boys will use it's-not-us-it's-them when two bits don't work together,
Re:Companies want someone to yell at! (Score:5, Informative)
Absolutely true. The last place I worked at was willing to buy products at 10x the price, so long as they had garunteed vendor support. Never underestimate how valuable a support contract is when your last parity drive has just failed on your raid and you have no spares left in the building.
Re:Companies want someone to yell at! (Score:2)
Fire the CIO.
Ok ok, I don't know the details and maybe it made sense in your specific instance, but for hardware I wouldn't pay 10x for the same thing; just buy 5x the number of required drives, swap your own drives
Re:Companies want someone to yell at! (Score:2)
As for Apache, that's one
Re:Companies want someone to yell at! (Score:3, Interesting)
Absolutely true. The last place I worked at was willing to buy products at 10x the price, so long as they had garunteed vendor support. Never underestimate how valuable a support contract is when your last parity drive has just failed on your raid and you have no spares left in the building.
For the companies I've worked for I've been the client side coordinator of hundreds of different software support contracts of one sort or another, plus a few hardware support contracts. I've been on the vendor side
Re:Companies want someone to yell at! (Score:5, Insightful)
the application supports only ancient operating system. and an unpatched version of it. nobody knows wether there will be a new version that would support something else.
then, without a warning, a new beta version is released. nobody knows wether this version will support a newer version of chosen operating system. support is silent.
public download is available. file, sized 1.5gb and containing "multiplatform" in the name. when finally downloaded, turns out, it contains only a version for a single platform. support does not respond to questions about versions/platforms supported (it is in beta already, remember).
and this is for a bloody PAYING CUSTOMER.
oh, installation of the software takes some 7 manual steps, each including a lot of obscure prompts and chances to screw something up. from 8 installations at the education lab _none_ is able to finish on the supported platform, there are no error messages. almost each install stalls at a unique point. the best was a finished installation that was unaccessible for unknown reason. of course, software is closed source, so good luck figuring out what is wrong.
screw big vendors. we have had similar experience with most of them - and problems are either solved inhouse, or we find ways to avoid them.
I think you'd be foolish to trust that the crew of experts you hired is going to stick around, and be able to solve any problem that comes up.
well, from my experience that is the only thing you can trust (of course, by designing systems both from technical and personnel viewpoint very carefuly). unless you can make or break their business, big vendors don't give a shit about your problems even if you are a paying customer.
now, it is somewhat different with all these linux vendors, i assume - you get a support (and, at least at this state, they are interested in solving problems fast and nice) and if the support is unable/unwilling to help you in required time, you can tap into internal resources or look for help elsewhere. i believe that should be a requirement for any serious information system.
Re:Companies want someone to yell at! (Score:3, Insightful)
Believe me, I've been in your shoes trying to get Oracle, BEA, RedHat and HP to play nicely together.
As a counterpoint, think of this scenario...
1. CEO reads airline magazine article about open source, tells CIO to get right on it. Also stipulates that only "free" version
Re:Companies want someone to yell at! (Score:2)
that was a subcontractor who was dealing with them, and i am not even sure what support options were available for those products. but they supposedly were official distributors, who have to work with the company a lot, and their response when we asked "wtf ? why aren't they telling you supported platforms for beta stage software ?" was "oh, that's the way things are around here..."
they were used to being fscked over even being the one
Re:Companies want someone to yell at! (Score:2)
I call that bullshit! The only thing that "die" is hardware, and you shouldn't be dependent of any specific hardware. Software doesn't simply "die" (unless you are using that very secure OS that that very competent company sells), you shouldn't have any software emergency (problems on projects, ot
open source profitability (Score:1)
"Corporate America" "profitability" "way of business" "influx of cash"
with
"Open Source"
Wow! I've never seen them together before. Nice touch!
Re:open source profitability (Score:1)
Issues with Open Source (Score:5, Interesting)
- Fully supported file systems with fully supported backup agents for each system.
- Vender interoperability. Redhat Enterprise Linux 3 and Enterprise Linux 4. Some commercial applications will not work properly on 4 but will on 3 because of the compiler/libraries they had used to build the code.
As an open source advocate and someone who believes in the principals of open source things have come a very long way over the last year, but the real linch pins still remain and will remain for some time.
Re:Issues with Open Source (Score:2, Insightful)
Excuse me sir, but this is an issue with Legato and Symantec (Veritas), not with Red Hat, Linux or Open Source. Legato and Symantec both claim to support Linux, but obviusly this support lea
Re:Issues with Open Source (Score:4, Insightful)
Unfortunatly its all about comparisons of products that people are familure with and know work. Once there are working products in those segments enterprise will have very little to moan about.
Re:Issues with Open Source (Score:2)
However, that's too late for your current client.
Re:Issues with Open Source (Score:2, Insightful)
What? Likewise, many closed source proprietary software vendors will support their packages on Windows 2000 but not on Windows 2003. So, guess what - many businesses are running a mixture of Windows 2000 and Windows 2003 servers for this reason alone. When the next version of the Windows server OS c
Re:Issues with Open Source (Score:1, Informative)
So, do I call the scanner company, which clearly stated on the box which versions of windows it worked with (but the PHB just understands 'works with windows'). Or do I call M$ since obviously something in NT isn't there that is in the other versions, or it is something that works differently in NT.
Oh
Re:Issues with Open Source (Score:1)
don't you see this is the problem with closed source software, imagine nbu being oss, a agent would have been available a long time ago, because a lot of people want/need this! ofcourse, ver
Open Source Innovation (Score:5, Interesting)
But what about new stuff? Will someone with a really innovative idea open source it from the beginning? And even worse: will we notice?
I do admit that open source projects have features that commercial projects never bothered to implement (image dumps from video files in VideoLan comes to mind) but I struggle to find something completely new.
Re:Open Source Innovation (Score:2)
Re:Open Source Innovation (Score:5, Informative)
So nothing very significant, no.
Re:Open Source Innovation (Score:2)
Bittorrent? Of course, that was preceeded by the arguably superior (and also OSS) SwarmCast which never caught on. Otherwise I'd say that there is quite a bit of research which is done in an OSS manner... but most people never hear of this. (Eg someone got excited about the innovating idea of running physics simulations on a GPU on ArsForums. This has been done for years on
Re:Open Source Innovation (Score:2)
Ok, you are a troll. But I'll answer anyway.
What about the internet, is it enogth? If not, take a look at Sourceforge or the Debian repository, you'll see plenty of new stuff there. But if you are expecting open source to magicaly create hard IA or something like that, it won't.
It semms that you won't.
Re:Open Source Innovation (Score:3, Interesting)
Is open source just a substitute for the lack of innovation in closed source software?...
Re:Open Source Innovation (Score:2, Interesting)
That's an awful broad statement. There is constant innovation in both open and closed source software. In some cases, yes, stagnation of closed software has been a breeding ground for open alternatives.
All these applications that are open source are in fact stuff we all know how to implement, it's just a matter of time and effort. We have an operating system, a database, an office suite nothing really new, they were boun
Best of 2005: Penguins hacked Microsoft Lobbyevent (Score:1, Interesting)
What is the "old way of doing business" (Score:1)
let's ask MS (Score:1)
My Impression (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:My Impression (Score:2)
Unix needs to come out of the dark ages of X; if there is one thing crippling Unix desktop deployment, it's that POS of a windowing system. No standardized look-and-feel, can'
Re:My Impression (Score:2)
You might be interested in a prior thread about this: http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=171888&cid=14
Re:My Impression (Score:2)
Even Windows gets this right.
Re:My Impression (Score:2)
> can't even support on-the-fly resolution swapping
because my monitor must be getting closer/further away when i press control-alt-(minus/plus), or when i use krandrtray all the time at work (webdeveloper - need to test different resolutions)
One word: (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:One word: Ubuntu (Score:2)
Old Way? (Score:2)
What the hell does this mean? Are you saying the "new" way of doing business means not achieving profitability?
Re:Old Way? (Score:5, Interesting)
It means that corporate america seems to be saying "open source is great, where do we buy it" instead of considering how to adjust their business to better utilize OSS. They seem to be jumping on the latest buzzword or trend without really understanding the value. And the boom of Red Hat seems to be indicating that people are buying OSS rather than buying into the OSS concept. Phrasing it to avoid "shouldn't Red Hat want to make a profit" confusion would have taken a few more brain cells working than I had before the morning sugar rush, sorry.
Good year for Open Source... (Score:4, Interesting)
In 2005, my work projects benefited highly from open source libraries. My testing software would have been very time-consuming to write without open source software. In general, it has saved me quite a bit of time and aggravation.
In addition, each time I proposed open source as a means of supplying something I needed to use, I didn't need to justify it to the project management types - they understand the power and the value now...
Perhaps a sea change is occurring that makes it a little more understandable (to corporate types) that the volunteer work of a few benefits the many.
A big thanks to those who have burned the midnight oil just to provide software for the rest of the world!
But what about Nethack? (Score:1, Funny)
Same as last year (Score:2)
It seems like I read very similar claims made in 2004.
2005 was a great year for open source (Score:2, Interesting)
Not one of our clients are going to "upgrade" to another Microsoft server platform. Not one. After years of exploits, lock in, and "useless feature which leads to a format", even the most dedicated Microsoft fans are jaded.
It saw USB support on all major distro's, plaug in a camera, and be greeted by an import photo wizard.
Plug in an external drive, and star
Re:2005 was a great year for open source (Score:1)
Yes, it was most definitely a great year for open source. I believe more people will start using it now than ever before! Onward and upward! Long live, Firefox and Thunderbird! Now we've begun to invade that territory where the Gates had been shut before. Now sites will have to start changing their page so Firefox can see them well too. Oh, I can hardly wait...
(-hrair-)
Re:Really occurred? (Score:5, Insightful)
I hate comparisons like this. They are so useless. It's like saying the Babylonians were the best mathematicians in their day, but they were really, really stupid. Or the Germans were the best physicists in their day, but they were really, really bad at physics.
You can gain no insight whatsoever with such a statement.
Re:Really occurred? (Score:3, Interesting)
I hate comparisons like this. They are so useless. It's like saying the Babylonians were the best mathematicians in their day, but they were really, really stupid.
Well, not really. It's like saying "Yes, this dual Gefore 7800 GTX 512 SLI overclocked and watercooled is the fastest you can get, but you still can't get photorealistic renders in real-time and that really really suc
Re:Really occurred? (Score:2)
Say what you like about office suit
Re:Really occurred? (Score:1)
Now, if you said Best Buy has trouble keeping MS Office in stock, while StarOffice ends up in the $2 bargain clearance bin, that says something about consumer demand.
Re:Really occurred? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Really occurred? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Really occurred? (Score:2)
So you want to be able to send a .doc by email and OO.org won't let you? Boo Hoo. Email should be text anyway. It's the "desire" to have interactive/pretty email that brings the internet to a crawl becau
Re:Really occurred? (Score:1)
I want to be able to do mail merge:
Dear > >, etc.
OO does a nice job of this if the output goes to a file or a printer, It does a miserable job if the output is to be piped out to email. With Word, all one needs is a MAPI mail client. For OO, it appears it requires JavaMail. However, you'll find that after installing JavaMail, you keep going down an endless chain
Re:this sounds like an excellent idea (Score:1)