Hacker Gary McKinnon Interviewed 350
G0rAk writes "The BBC World Service has a half hour audio interview with British hacker Gary McKinnon. As recently reported on/. and BBC News, Gary was arrested and freed on bail pending extradition proceedings to the U.S. There, he faces charges of gaining unauthorised access and causing criminal damage to military computers in his search for evidence of UFO coverups and anti-gravity technology of extra-terrestrial origin. In a very candid interview, Gary re-affirms that he had no malicious intent, was amazed at the ease with which he penetrated the networks, explains in detail what evidence of UFO coverups he saw, describes a personal journey through hell as he became obsessed with the project and how very scared he is that he could be facing up to seventy years in a Virginian jail. A bit of a nut, perhaps. But a fascinating listen that helps a lot in making that judgment. The Interview can be listened to with RealPlayer from 11:32 GMT (06:32 EST) on Saturday until the same time next week."
Thank you Gary (Score:5, Insightful)
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Thank you Gary (Score:2)
The truth is, they should secure their systems to keep the honest man honest, the script kiddies outside and the crackers in jail. Their current defenses wouldn't have stopped a honest man, as we can see that it didn't stop the script kiddie in the article and for sure it wouldn't have stopped a cracker.
Re:Thank you Gary (Score:5, Insightful)
Comment removed (Score:2)
Deterrent? (Score:4, Insightful)
This sort of sentence is not going to deterr the Chinese or N. Korean governments. It won't deterr Al Qaeda operatives. And these guys could theoretically leapfrog off systems in the US. And if he could enter this easily, then what of the North Koreans or the Chinese? What of militants/terrorists with hostile intentions (Islamic or not)?
I am a firm believer that there should be a two-tier punishment for these sort of incidents. I reasonably lenient punnishment for the actual tresspass and then a very severe punishment if the tresspassor can be linked to a terrorist group or foreign government.
The fact is that if national security were the priority, these systems would not have been so easily compromised.
Re:Thank you Gary (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Thank you Gary (Score:2)
Re:Thank you Gary (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Thank you Gary (Score:2)
Even if the door is wide open, you do no walk into a military base. Same goes for their network.
Very true, but does not that thought scare the hell out of you?
What was that ficticious movie called where missle silos were being activated and the hacker thought it was a similator? Wasn't it War Games (1983).
He should have had more humor though, he could have issued a gate pass to Andrews for Colonel Bin Laden and have it sent to ABC or CBS (NBC would down play it as it involved Winodws).
Yesterday's fiction is destined to be tomorrows fact. The lesson politicians are going to have to learn as computer security starts with a rational thought and not political mahem process.
Re:Thank you Gary (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Thank you Gary (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Thank you Gary (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Thank you Gary (Score:5, Insightful)
>to believe the word of someone who breaks into military
>computers to look for evidence of UFOs.
Breaking into a government computer to look for evidence for UFO's is a perfectly rational decision. If you believe that there's a conspiracy to hide information and that there's no legitimate way to obtain that information, going after it in this way makes perfect sense. (Allowing yourself to be caught doing it is pretty dumb, but he readily admits to having been dumb on that count.)
While he may be wrong, that doesn't make him insane or unreliable.
The fact that he claims not to have found the evidence he wanted - outside of a photograph of a weird looking aircraft and the phrase "non-terrestrial personnel" in a document - makes him seem all the more reliable. He's not a crackpot falling over himself to misenterpret or invent data.
He's just a guy who went too far following a reasonable (if wrong) idea, and the care with which he described what he did observe is admirable. If all the UFO nutters were as precise as him, there'd be a lot fewer UFO nutters out there.
>"I see people breaking into these comptuers all the time."
>Was that before or after you were pulled into the mothership
>and shown the proof that we never landed on the moon?
LTFI.
That's exactly the sort of thing he didn't say.
(I was expecting to hear something similar myself.)
Re:Thank you Gary (Score:3, Informative)
> How well protected are these systems really then?
Badly.
I heard the interview on the World Service and he said in the interview that he broke into Windows machines using user admin where the password hadn't been set. Remember that MS-SQL used to ship like that by default? But I bet he used others too eg. IIS.
So his uber 133t hacking skills involved the use of Google and setting a password!
He said that netstat and traceroute on IP addresses showed that the boxes already had active tcp/ip connections to Korea, Russia etc. and I'm presuming his skills helped him determine that these were not legitimate (ie. not port 80)
He sounded like a nice enough guy. A bit young and clueless but far from an extradition to a foreign power and a possible 70 year sentence in a pound-me-in-the-ass prison. He was expecting a few months suspended under British law.
Re:Thank you Gary (Score:2, Insightful)
Doesn't this make him:
+ A cracker - not a hacker.
+ Insane.
MOD PARENT UP! (Score:2)
Thank you!
Re:Thank you Gary (Score:5, Insightful)
You've lost that fight; time to move on to one you have a chance of winning. Language use changes, and hacker has changed to mean cracker, as well as programmer or other similar geeky type. For that matter, the former is *all* it means to the public. Carry on calling people hackers if you wish, but most people will get entirely the impression.
Battle was lost 16 years ago, no less (Score:3, Informative)
Check out this thread, dated March 7, 1989:
http://catless.ncl.ac.uk/Risks/8.36.html#subj3 [ncl.ac.uk]
Brad Templeton wrote: It is with regret that I have to say that this fight has been lost. "Hacker" and "computer criminal" are now equated in the public mind, to the extent that this use of "hacker" now appears in newspaper headlines. The German Spy breakins confirm this in papers all over the world.
Rob
Re:Thank you Gary (Score:3, Informative)
However I do think hacker is a lost cause, because the two meanings are too similar. However while those of you who want the word used correctly, could you help improve precision which we can use the English language by also being careful to use the following words strictly according to their original definitions:
gay: happy, jolly
rude: rustic, crude
gentleman: person with enough property not to need to work
lady: the wife of a knight or lord
charity: love of people per se (and of God)
You will notice that in each case the current meaning of the word is redundant (there are synonyms) and less precise than the original, therefore the change of meaning has shrunk the range of the language. Much like the case with hacker. So, please be consistent, use all these words (and many more) accurately. The only problem is that most people will not understand you: but then again why not allow the ignorant to misunderstand you.
(note to moderators: this is meant to ironic. If you have not heard the word before please look it up).
Re:Thank you Gary (Score:4, Insightful)
He got into a bloody cemetary ffs! He only got in because the military personnel there were too stupid to change the default password. He used his own email address for god's sake!
a 70 year penalty for something a script kiddie can do is more than harsh: it's outrageous.
900k is trumped up by not unreasonable (Score:2)
It can be argued that these costs are fiction. Most of the labour would have been handled by staff that would have been sitting around anyway. But if there were no incidents then some of that staff would not be required at all.
Re:Thank you Gary (Score:2)
Damages (Score:2)
To ward off the replies that I know are coming: I am not saying that the guy should be rewarded. I am not saying that what he did was ethical. I am saying that extra security after the fact is not "damage incurred." If someone could show that their need for security increased as a result of the break-in this would be another matter.
Re:Thank you Gary (Score:2)
Actually in the interview, he says he left notes on people's desktops of the machines he broke into to tell them that he'd been there, and they still didn't change the password. This is not me saying what he did was right or even wrong, just replying to that part of your post.
Once again... (Score:2, Insightful)
Anti-Grav? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Anti-Grav? (Score:3, Interesting)
He's in for it (Score:4, Interesting)
I have to say, though, that even if the government computers were wide open, finding documents about UFO's seems like looking for the proverbial needle in a haystack.
Jerry
http://www.cyvin.org/ [cyvin.org]
Re:He's in for it (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:He's in for it (Score:2)
He didn't find anti-gravity tech. If the UFO files he found were bullshit, slamming a 70 year jail sentence in a prison which has a record for abuse of their tazer belts seems a little harsh, no? $900k worth of damage caused by some guy looking around some networks, maybe dropping a few access programs here and there so he can come back later doesn't seem to add up either.
Personally, I don't think this guy is a crackpot (I fucking loathe the fact he was asked "do you have friends?" "were you taking drugs at the time?", etc. (although I loved his answer, smokin grass rocks)) - he's just some guy who believes in something and because people won't tell him the answers he wants, he goes and looks for himself. The techniques he used are relatively basic things anyone who spends a week reading 'Hack FAQs' could pick up. The US is, for whatever reason, slamming a shit load of absurd claims about this guy into his face and making a real example out of him. I don't believe in alien technology or UFOs flying around our planet, but for what he's done, 70 years is fucked up by anybodys viewpoint, and the fact they won't give details about stuff he's done or found makes the whole thing stink.
I think .... (Score:2)
Hack this format (Score:3, Insightful)
I'll do it if someone sends me instructions. I think this BBC encourages remixing, and format changing stuff, right?
Sincerly,
A concerned
Re:Hack this format (Score:5, Informative)
rtsp://rmv8.bbc.net.uk/worldservice/interview.ra
use mplayer to download it:
mplayer -dumpstream -dumpfile interview.rm rtsp://rmv8.bbc.net.uk/worldservice/interview.ra
then convert to wav:
mplayer interview.rm -ao pcm -aofile interview.wav
use lame to convert to mp3:
lame -h interview.wav interview.mp3
Re:Hack this format (Score:3, Insightful)
Yeah, right (Score:2)
The funny part comes when they try to go to the media.
Re:Yeah, right (Score:2)
Yeah, well if _I_ were the govt, I'd put the same fake info in the same type honeypot, but my govt would be smart enough to make that "fake" information _real_ so that real info is discredited along with the hacker. Two birds, one stone. But that's just me and my vastly superior govt. Thank God we have people like you running ours.
Interview Transcript and Article. (Score:5, Informative)
Poor Goofball (Score:3, Interesting)
Silly American military for setting up Windows with blank administrator passwords too. Whole thing is kinda silly.
Re:Poor Goofball (Score:2)
Re:Poor Goofball (Score:2)
70 years is too much but.... (Score:5, Insightful)
As for the "horror" of his extradition, don't blame uncle sam. The British government is big enough to tell our government to piss off if it felt such a thing weren't warranted. The main reason that we don't do such a thing to our citizens is that most countries that would want our people sent over to them wouldn't give them a fair trial, and that's not inherently because they're American. A Chinese is probably no more like to get a fair trial in Mugabe's Zimbabwe than an American. Foreign governments know that if our people attack them, that our law enforcement will arrest them and prosecute them, even if the country is hostile. The feds threatened to arrest the Americans who defaced Chinese websites after the PLA-Air Force brough our AWAC down early in Bush's first term. Few governments, China's especially, would do that to their own people.
Every so often I get some dumbass at my university trying to get me to teach them those "mad skillz" of h@x0ring that apparently all CS majors have. My interest was always in programming, not in things like that. They even have the gall to look at me like I'm the asshole, when I tell them that I've never bothered to learn such things, that I feel that what they want to do is morally wrong and that they should learn to actually respect others' privacy and property. The same people would probably wonder what the hell is wrong with someone who asked them to teach them how to use a jimmy to open up some frat boy's car so they could screw around in his mustang. IMO, there's really no difference.
Re:70 years is too much but.... (Score:5, Funny)
You have just disqualified yourself from any position in the current US Administration.
Re:70 years is too much but.... (Score:2)
And people wonder why the US is loathe to join the ICC. [icc-cpi.int]
Re:70 years is too much but.... (Score:2)
I am not familiar with this incident... could you please elaborate?
Re:70 years is too much but.... (Score:3, Interesting)
He doesn't consider what he did okay, and he even says feels bad for it. Maybe you call bullshit on this one, but I don't honestly think so... I don't think he's lying, he's just insane--not like (most) of the people at your school.
The man is a complete nut (really, listen to the interview)... he talks about the proof of UFO's he's seen, and most importantly, he isn't defending himself like a sane person would. Instead of making up a story, or letting a lawyer handling his defense, he's being completely open about what he's done. He's interacting with the world in a way that indicates that he doesn't think his message will be at all rejected or ridiculed.
What's really disturbing is the fact that he was so easily able to break into the computer networks of US military organizations. That is what REALLY scares me.
Re:70 years is too much but.... (Score:2, Insightful)
The joy of hacking is in discovery, whether or not you are an asshole is neither here nor there. I think you really just don't "get it". There is a complete rush in obtaining "forbidden knowledge" that has been a core value in human history. There are multibillion dollar industries in place that are profiteering for just that reason. Check your inbox if you need proof: Need to be a better lover? How bout hidden transdimensional communication device secrets?
You may have smoked a bit of the ivory in the tower at your university, but you lack the
understanding of discovery of science and explanation. This guy wanted answers; Dumb dumbs left weak passwords, which is essentially a weak form of security which is approximate to:
Open door == open invitation
You are putting on elitist airs by saying that
you've never bothered to learn "such things", as if they were beneath you, but if you would pick up an issue of Midnight Engineering, or 2600 now and again and stop waving around your Golden Rule morals you could still potentially save yourself from a really dull life. CS should have
taught you to learn how to learn and how to learn by experimentation. Every industry has a Wild West type period, until some dullards wave around their morals, and start imposing silly rules and regulations.
The fact of the matter is that you are equivocating to his act as if it were like breaking into someone's car is way off (although it is mildly amusing to liken the military to a frat boy). This guy wasn't trying to damage, nor harm the information that he was trying to view. A lot of people have become completely paranoid about security since 9/11, and the fact of the matter is that people like you need to get your heads out of your asses to know the difference between what an exploratory prank is, as opposed to a crime of malicious intent.
Now, if you believe that covering up UFOs are a matter of national security (and this would in fact be a treasonous crime) that any knowledge he may have come across would be true or dangerous if leaked (and worthy of even 2 years jailtime), he has in fact proven that UFOs exist, and I for one, welcome our new grey skinned overlords (as soon as our outsourcing Indian overlords are done with us unless they are pointing those vaporizing ray beams at us).
Re:70 years is too much but.... (Score:2)
Re:70 years is too much but.... (Score:2)
Re:70 years is too much but.... (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm not sure that it true that simple trespass is met with automatic violence in most parts of the world. In many places there are strong social customs that treat trespassers as a guest unless there is evidence that the trespasser has bad intent.
In english commonlaw there is a clear distiction between criminial and civil trespass. Basicly, you have to break in for trespass to be a crime. If you walk in the front door and then leave, it is rude, but not a crime. Also, under English common law the property owner can ask the trespasser to leave, but they are not allowed to force them off the property. The police must be called if the trespasser refuses to leave. Of course, if the trespasser threatens the owner the minimal amount of force to defend yourself is allowed.
As far as I can tell, while most people don't want strangers bounding into their living room, only the USA has the "old west" shoot 'em first and ask questions later mentality.
Re:70 years is too much but.... (Score:3, Interesting)
Ebbers caused *11 billion* in damages. Over 1000 times as much. He got 20 years of soft time. Yes, Ebbers could have gotten more, but anyone want to place bets that this guy will get 20 years in a low security prison near his home so his family can visit?
Patrick Quinlan, the CEO of MCA financial, led a fraud scheme worth $256 million. He got the maximum sentence - 10 years.
Nutters are Criminals too.. (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Nutters are Criminals too.. (Score:2)
If you're insane, you're not responsible for your actions, you're just as guilty though. Big difference...
Re:Nutters are Criminals too.. (Score:2)
Yes, but 'lay-person insane' and 'legally insane' are two very different things.
To be legally insane, it must be demonstrated that you do not understand the difference between right and wrong, as defined by the rest of society.
He apparently did know the difference, since he said he feels bad about doing it afterwards.
If you feel guilt or regret for an action, it follows that you knew what you were doing was wrong.
Re:Nutters are Criminals too.. (Score:2, Insightful)
If you assert that the ends never justify the means when the law must be broken then consider the shooting last week of an unarmed and innocent man in London who was 'resonably suspected' of being a suicide bomber. The cop that pulled the trigger (5 times at contact range) made a bad one and will live with it for life, its a mess. However his reasonable suspicion led him to break the law as British police are not authorised to shoot to kill by policy. He may get left with the can.
It's easy to lable anybody a 'nutter' when deconstructing their reasoning following a chain of evidence. Especially post factum with the luxury of hindsight and time. What the kid discovered was probably bollocks. Military culture is renouned for grandious fantastical terminology.
What he probably saw the most of were payroll and accounts. However, if he had turned up a plot by the saucer men (under the guidence of the Illuminati and the Black Pope) to take over the planet you would be calling him a hero right now.
Not that that is going to happen, but the point is that the law is not a fixed obstacle to reasonable man whos intent is the greater good. It is his intent that excuses him, as for hacker kiddy here and as for the poor fool who shot an innocent man trying to make the world a better place. The law is not a piece of stone, which is why judges exist, and why you are not one.
Re:Nutters are Criminals too.. (Score:2)
In America the lefties are screaming about civil rights and torture in Guantanamo, but by your reasoning it's ok if it's for the greater good.
We must view the law as strict, uncompromising, and applying to everyone. However, in cases for which the common good was served, a congressional or presidential pardon should be considered - after the law has had it's say.
Extradition (Score:2, Insightful)
If so, I would hope that an English judge would block extradition on the basis of the failure of the US to subscribe to the UN Declaration on Human Rights.
Of course, in the UK prison system you have the right to inhabit overcrowded cells, be locked up with racist murderers to see if you get killed, and eventually commit suicide. But that's OK because it is protecting our rights and we are the good guys.
Yes, I am getting a bit tedious about this. But I am really annoyed that the UK courts so far have failed to perceive that this case is bovine excrement of the CMA variety. You exposed the weakness of our security! Shoot the messenger!
yes (Score:3, Informative)
I call B.S. on some of what he says (Score:4, Insightful)
I will agree that $900,000 of damage seems a bit of out line, however.
Re:I call B.S. on some of what he says (Score:5, Funny)
M
Non-terrestrial Officers (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Non-terrestrial Officers (Score:3, Funny)
And earlier today, General Richard Dean Anderson said that bastard cracker who stole the script for the next season of Stargate SG-1 would be tracked down and punished to the full extent of the law.
For those of us who can't/won't run RealPlayer... (Score:2)
Sad (Score:5, Insightful)
Rich! (Score:2, Funny)
"The Americans have a secret spaceship?" I ask.
"That's what this trickle of evidence has led me to believe."
"Some kind of other Mir that nobody knows about?"
"I guess so," says Gary.
"What were the ship names?"
"I can't remember," says Gary. "I was smoking a lot of dope at the time. Not good for the intellect."
This is too funny! They can make an example out of him in both the War on Terrah and the War on Drugs!
LOD tried something like this at Hohocon '91 (Score:2, Interesting)
This was the same con where John Draper gave his speech about phreaking in eastern Europe, and the old days of blue boxing.
Does anyone else remember Hohocon?
-merc
When does it become hacking? (Score:2, Interesting)
Okay, I can't argue that this wasn't hacking, but having recently been accused of it myself, I'm curious where other people stand.
intentionally vague but trueIn my case, I was given a username and password and address of a server for ftp. I wondered what else was out there so I logged in via ssh. No special trick needed, the firewall was open, I had a server account, had a shell and all I did was gather a little basic info on what the server was and what it was running. Apparently nobody realized they had set all that up for me. Some admin panicked, somebody in authority (over me) panicked and next thing I know I'm sitting in an office explaining my actions to somebody that has a LOT more authority.
I certainly wouldn't argue that uploading root kits/security cracking tools, downloading encrypted files to attempt to crack encryption isn't wrong but what exactly is?
My questions (is it legal/is it hacking):
My Experience (Score:5, Interesting)
This is based on several factors in his story, including the ease with which he was able to penetrate this system as well as the total lack of understanding of the English language common to people in positions of authority in the U.S. Federal government.
First off, I have had the displeasure of being party to audits by the Office of the Inspector General and am familiar with their standards for assessing IT policy based on the security level of content being housed on the server. They are fairly standard, highly regimented, and include every possible protection someone could have imagined 3 years ago.
While these requirements do not automatically extend to military networks, they are regarded as being less stringent than military networks (for instance, you will commonly see references to 'military grade standards' when receiving proposals from other contractors).
One specific requirement of an OIG assessment is evidence of the enforcement of a password security. They check to see whether users are required to have passwords, how often passwords expire, how many characters should be in each password, the minimum number of characters that must be non-alphanumeric, etc.
The type of content Mr. McKinnon accessed surely would have been classified secret if it referred to a non-public military capability, and would probably be top secret if it referred to something of extraterrestial origin. 100% of servers containing secret documents are hardened against attack in public agencies, and I would assume the same is true with the military.
All this leads me to believe it is extremely unlikely Mr. McKinnon saw what he thinks he saw, or else he is probably not being truthful in his description of how he cracked the system. I prefer to think of this in the former, but cannot really render judgement without seeing the source materials.
The other reason I am extremely skeptical of the idea Mr. McKinnon understood what he was seeing is that people in positions of authority in the U.S. Government and in the military tend to be unable to understand English to the point they are bordering on illiterate. This is not an exaggeration, I know of several agencies that require all of their SES officers to attend remedial English classes as a requirement for employment. These people commonly use words with total disregard for their meaning, their memos often communicate instructions which are exactly the opposite of their intended message, and most importantly, they give names to things which are wholly inappropriate.
If Mr. McKinnon saw a memo referring to non-terrestrial officers, we can only guess at what that term may mean. My guess is that it refers to aerial or naval forces, but it really could be anything.
M
Re:My Experience (Score:4, Funny)
And you're just part of The Man's coverup!!!
Extradition (Score:3, Interesting)
I am concerned that the alleged crime did not take place on American soil. So far as I know this bloke hasn't even been to the States. Certainly the "hacking" seems to have been done from a London flat.
If it happened on British soil the Americans should have the decency to respect the British courts to deal with it under British law. However decency is not something that we've come to expect from America in it its dealings with the rest of the world.
I suppose this does raise a serious question about where it actually did happen. Personally I'd say that while the effects were in the states, the direction and motivation happened in the UK and so this is where the crime took place. This seems to be by far the simplest and most pragmatic legal interpretation.
The ammount of damage he is being charged with doing seems to be ludicrous. Ok I can see how the compromised systems needed to be rebuilt....but their state of security was patently so shocking that this was required in any case - he saved them money by pointing this out sooner rather than later.
It also seems clear that this guys motivations were not malicious to the United States. I think the British courts should tell the US to stop whinging and concentrate on securing their systems. Even if their systems were unlawfully penetrated they lacked dillegence in insuring that data, particularly confidential data was not in the plain on any machine ever connected to a network.
The revelation that there exists a fleet of American spaceships is rather worrying. Is the American military under alien control? I don't believe these people could've sorted out a space fleet by themeselves - not without a blue room. Was the bombing of Iraq carried out under alien orders? If Bush and his supporters think they can get away with planting a load of goof on some computers and saying "I didn't do it", they've got another thing coming. I don't believe a word of it.
Seriously though this guy is obviously harmless. If he did any harm then its not his fault. If someone nipped into an army base and made off with some missiles and tanks then blew a few small towns up then it would be right to be more concerned with military security than the actions of the passing nutter. In fact I'd hold the military wholly responsible. I demand my right to be a passing nutter! Whether u grant it or not there will always be passing nutters.
How funny... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Thankful only trying to extradite him (Score:2)
Re:Thankful only trying to extradite him (Score:2, Funny)
The crime: Wearing a Puffa jacket out of season
The punishment: Death penalty without trial
Re:Thankful only trying to extradite him (Score:2, Insightful)
they shot him for jumping a ticket barrier and evading police. you can't seriously be suggesting he deserved to die for what he did.
Re:Thankful only trying to extradite him (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Thankful only trying to extradite him (Score:3, Insightful)
No, but the people on the train station didn't deserve being blown to bits either, had he been a terrorist. There was more than enough reason to believe he was one, and even if he couldn't be aware of his house being under surveilance, making a mad dash into the train station after being halted by the police (civilian, but I assumed they showed ID when they did) was incredibly stupid, giving the recent events. The only thing surprising to me is that he was allowed to run, and didn't get gunned down before entering the station. Presumably they lacked a clear shot and feared hitting civilians. That's the only reason he got as far as he got.
Kjella
Re:Thankful only trying to extradite him (Score:5, Insightful)
Beware, or this may become the "normal times".
Re:Thankful only trying to extradite him (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Thankful only trying to extradite him (Score:2)
Re:They Were Justified (Score:4, Insightful)
Just about every tyranny in history began with the words "for the good of the people and the security of our nation".
Re:Thankful only trying to extradite him (Score:2, Offtopic)
The guy jumped the ticket barriers, ran from the police, and then tried to board the train.
Except the Police were Plain Clothes men and the million dollar question is whether they identified themselves.Maybe the chap was just running away from some nutters with a gun?
Re:Thankful only trying to extradite him (Score:2, Informative)
He did nothing wrong, but run when a gang of guys ran after him. Thank god that danger is gone.
guys waving guns (Score:5, Insightful)
With that said tho the mulsim's are focusing on this event eventhough it was a mistake and complete ignore the 80 some civilians that islamic extremist kill with intent this weekend in Eygpt.
Re:Thankful only trying to extradite him (Score:2, Offtopic)
Re:Thankful only trying to extradite him (Score:2)
Re:Thankful only trying to extradite him (Score:3, Insightful)
And yes, 50-odd innocent people lost their lives on the 7th of July; well, another one just lost his. The former does not make the latter any less serious.
Re:Thankful only trying to extradite him (Score:2, Insightful)
He had a full day or monthly pass. The guy was confronted by 3 plain clothes guys weilding automitic guns! AKA not looking like police.
Why wasnt he stopped when he left the house but only when he tried to board the bus? Seems like the cops wanted to have an excuse to shoot him just incase he fled.
>didn't stop any suspicious looking people?
You mean not white wearing backpacks?
Re:Thankful only trying to extradite him (Score:4, Insightful)
THe IRA bombings didnt scare me. The Al-Qaeda bombings didnt scare me. The Metropolitan Police with a shoot-to-kill policy...THAT scares me shitless!
Re:Thankful only trying to extradite him (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm not. I think it's awful.
Now I have to ask you...
1) Are you completely indifferent that our own goverments are using these terrorists against us to implement draconian surveillance such random bag searches, and gunning down our own people?
2) Are you completely indifferent to the fact that you're averaging between 20-50 civilian deaths in Iraq EACH MONTH since the US went in? So all of a sudden we have an incident in Britain and it's okay to gun people down because they're behaving suspiciously.
Get some perspective, and stop using violence to justify more violence before we decend into hell. Do you really want where you live to become a police state, a war zone, or worse?
Re:Thankful only trying to extradite him (Score:3, Insightful)
The moment you make a life worth nothing, all life is worth nothing.
The moment you make violating a person's rights acceptable, it will be abused.
Occassionally stopping a handful of suicide bombers isn't worth throwing away your freedom. Just as it's not worth banning all cars isn't an acceptable way to bring down the number killed on the road each year.
It's not the terrorists fault if we change how we live due to their dirty tactics. They absolutely do win, and the problem is that too few people understand or care about that.
Re:Thankful only trying to extradite him (Score:3, Informative)
Oh bullshit. The Met has issued a statement confirming that the man had absolutely no connection to the bombings.
Re:Not a fan of Real's chicanery (Score:2)
Re:Not a fan of Real's chicanery (Score:2)
Re:Something Legal in Nature (Score:2, Informative)
You know, some of us on /. are actual attorneys. I'm finishing up law school now and at least three of my teachers are avid readers. So maybe some of those opinions are worth paying a little attention to....
This smells a little like flame-bait to me.
Re:Long sentence (Score:2)
Ummm... what country are you in? I'm more than a bit curious when you say "no sentences over 20 years." Lets start with murder (USA, 25 to life). Some US CEOs were just sentenced to 25 years for massive fraud. Drug dealers routinely get more than 20. So, not sure where you are from, but it must have lighter punishments.
Re:Long sentence (Score:2)
Course, then there is the guy who was convicted of mollesting 445 boys and got 10 years in prison, which a lot of people here in the US would consider absurd.
That said, I know of some people here who would like to change the law so that we don't lock people up so much. For some crimes, such as rape, they would like to bring back hanging. For others, lashings. They think that would discourage people from commiting crimes more. Please note this in no where near the majority and by some people I do not mean many.
Re:Long sentence (Score:4, Informative)
1) It's common to stack sentences over here. A murderer might end up facing several consecutive life sentances.
2) Prison guards have a very, very strong lobbying presence in California (not sure about the rest of the US). They frequently agitate for longer prison time, no matter what the crime.
(a repulsive and immoral practice, imho)
Re:Long sentence (Score:2)
America always seems to throw the book really hard at people. If we look at it from a utalitarian view point, does it benefit society to lock up people in prisons, where the odds of them becoming even harder criminals once they get out skyrocket? I doubt it.
Re:Long sentence (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Transcript? (Score:5, Informative)
He says he is just a geek
He says he didnt damage systems, but the US gov considers it damage if you even have to make changes once you know the system is comprimised
He was a hairdresser, then got an "Access certification"
Then he started doing research in UFO research
He believes there is anti-gravity propulsion that was recovered by alien spacecraft
He continues sounding like a nut about UFO technology that the USA now uses
Claims he wants to provide the free energy that the US army uses to the rest of the world
He "hacked" by accessing computers with blank admin passes (windoze)
Allegedly there was mulitple people on the same networks
Haha...he knows this from netstat, there was connections all over
Apparently he found proof because people were airbrushing out UFO's from satellite images
Also an excel spreadsheet with "non terrestrial officers" on the list
Hahahahahaha she asked if he was doing a lot of drugs during this time, and he said he was smoking a bit of weed
He stopped washing himself at one point he said
He left his job and lost his girlfriend
But he lived with that girlfriend even afterwords (what a pimp!)
Somehow they bring Iraq and 9/11 into this
He got busted after playing videogames all night
Americans started talking about extradition, so thats when he was getting concerned, it somehow jumped from 2 years to 4 years to 18 years to 70 years.
He thinks he is a scapegoat for all the hacking going on