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Microsoft Lifts Curtain on Indigo Software 315

Posted by samzenpus from the plays-well-with-others dept.
daria42 writes "Microsoft has released an early version of Indigo on the Microsoft Developer Network. Indigo is a new communications system intended to let Windows programs more easily connect to other software. Indigo was one of the three original "pillars" of Longhorn, however under the new plan it will be re-tooled to work with Windows XP and Windows Server 2003, in addition to Longhorn."
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Microsoft Lifts Curtain on Indigo Software More

Microsoft Lifts Curtain on Indigo Software

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  • XP - Longhorn (Score:5, Interesting)

    by fireman sam ( 662213 ) on Wednesday March 16, 2005 @07:16PM (#11960027) Homepage Journal
    After Microsoft back ports everything from Longhorn to XP, will the $499 upgrade from XP to Longhorn be like 95 to 98? Just some bug fixes and a free browser?

    • Re:XP - Longhorn (Score:5, Funny)

      by bigman2003 ( 671309 ) on Wednesday March 16, 2005 @07:23PM (#11960118) Homepage
      It is starting to look that way, which is a good thing. So rather than having to shell out the money for Longhorn just for security, and a little bit of inter-operability, XP owners can hang on for a while longer.

      But the real reason, is that Microsoft wants developers to start using these technologies as soon as possible. If they back-port it to XP, there are already millions of potential customers for software built on the foundation. From my point of view, Apple had a tough time at the beginning with OSX. When a new OSX program cameout that would not run under OS 9, we were stuck with the old version. Then, after upgrading to OSX, we were stuck booting back into OS 9 to run a few programs that weren't compatible.

      If I can avoid the same thing with the next version of Windows, I'll be happy. (Not as happy as I would be if Natalie Portman let me lick honey off of her body...but happier than if I had to eat chocolate cake from between Rhea Perlman's thighs)

      • But the real reason, is that Microsoft wants developers to start using these technologies as soon as possible. If they back-port it to XP, there are already millions of potential customers for software built on the foundation.

        That's certainly one possibility. Another is that they are planning to take a run at getting end users on some sort of subscription based upgrade plan. That would undercut the folks using cracked versions of Windows and fits with their plans to limit access to currently "free" dow

    • Only if it include Palladium!

    • Certainly not -- they're scrapping the Win32 API (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Kip Winger ( 547075 ) on Wednesday March 16, 2005 @07:39PM (#11960285) Homepage
      I may have been trolled, but the change from Windows XP to Longhorn will be about as big as between Windows 9x and Windows NT -- they changed the kernel between the two families of Windows, but left much of the Win32API, with its ugly legacy and infinite tackons, from DCOM to MFC.

      Everything in Longhorn will be based on the .NET framework and sandboxed, with the Win32 API scrapped. Longhorn's ability to run the Win32 API will be through a compatibility layer, similar to the DOS compatibility layer in XP. However, WinXP's ability to run Indigo and Avalon, the two pillars of Longhorn, will be done through a forward compatibility layer.

      Fortunately, they're doing everything clean this time with XML and SOAP, with an open API, as opposed to binary-only files, arcane RPC calls, and endless piles of undocumented, insanely messy code dating back until the early 90s. There actually might be some interoperability this time around -- Longhorn SAMBA certainly won't be nearly as hard to code and reverse engineer, especially with Mono in hand.

      More details: http://msdn.microsoft.com/Longhorn/understanding/p illars/default.aspx [microsoft.com]

      • Re:Certainly not -- they're scrapping the Win32 AP (Score:4, Interesting)

        by dioscaido ( 541037 ) on Wednesday March 16, 2005 @07:51PM (#11960408)
        I'm going to have to agree with the parent poster. I work at MS, and just recently saw a pretty thorough ppt on Longhorn features, a lot of which didn't depend on the pillars. It took an hour just to talk about all the security revamps in the kernel. Unfortunately, its all 'MS confidential' for now... The first Beta should be out during the summer, lets reserve our judgements of Longhorn until then.
      • The .NET Framework is a layer on top of the Win32 API. How exactly are they going to scrap the Win32 API and use .NET?
      • From what I heard, they are NOT scrapping the Win32 API. And .NET will continue to be a bolt on...

        Now about the Open API, not so sure on that...
      • Actually, its probobly more like the change between Classic MacOS and OSX.

        Its a totally new windows API with the old API being supported only through backwards compatibility layers (I assume its basicly something like WINE but better and able to use bits of the windows source code where needed)
      • frameworks.. sandboxing.. scrapping legacy API's.. documented code.. interoperability.. So basically, what you're saying is that MS has finally realized that the Java folks had it right all along. (:

        Fortunately, they're doing everything clean this time with XML and SOAP

        Truly distributed applications using XML/SOAP for RPC tend to be horribly slow. The development community has largely rejected distributed architectures because they simply aren't the right tools for the job in most cases. What's left
        • Actually, you really should know what you are talking about before you make bold statements. Avalon - NOT the shiny new interface, is the new display subsystem. It handles the layout of windows forms and such. It also has NO knowledge of XML. XAML - A declarative programming language based off of XML. It allows you to instantiate objects using XML. Such as - would instantiate a Hello object and set its Color to blue. Aero - The new shiny interface system. This is actually what makes things pretty a
        • Truly distributed applications using XML/SOAP for RPC tend to be horribly slow.

          You are thinking of the old hardware, back when computers only ran at 2.0 GHz and had only 1 GB of RAM.

          You're going to need a hardware upgrade for Longhorn.

          There's a reason it is called Longhorn. Because you're really, really going to get screwed this time with all of the DRM.
      • Everything in Longhorn will be based on the .NET framework and sandboxed, with the Win32 API scrapped.

        You're a damn fool if you believe that. Or at least, if you believe that and that Longhorn will be released this decade.

      • Everything in Longhorn will be based on the .NET framework and sandboxed, with the Win32 API scrapped. Longhorn's ability to run the Win32 API will be through a compatibility layer, similar to the DOS compatibility layer in XP. However, WinXP's ability to run Indigo and Avalon, the two pillars of Longhorn, will be done through a forward compatibility layer.

        No clue where you're getting your information, dude, but that's all false.

        Even when parts of the Longhorn shell was being built on managed code (which

    • After Microsoft back ports everything from Longhorn to XP, will the $499 upgrade from XP to Longhorn be like 95 to 98? Just some bug fixes and a free browser?

      Yes, and millions of people will still buy it.

    • Re:XP - Longhorn (Score:5, Insightful)

      by westlake ( 615356 ) on Wednesday March 16, 2005 @08:04PM (#11960522)
      After Microsoft back ports everything from Longhorn to XP, will the $499 upgrade from XP to Longhorn be like 95 to 98? Just some bug fixes and a free browser?

      For a great many users, that "$499 Upgrade" will ship installed on their new $500 Dell.

    • Re:XP - Longhorn (Score:3, Insightful)

      by The-Bus ( 138060 )
      Honestly, the same case could be made for 98 to 98 SE, 9x to ME, and 2000 to XP Pro.

      95 finally brought a modern gee-whiz interface to Windows, 2000 brought stability* to Windows. Hopefully Longhorn will be a good upgrade, I still don't see the benefits of XP over 2000 as a lowly end-user. That and my 2000 box is still runnning (mind you over a non-clean install) and my XP box is barely alive a year later, XP2 and all.

      * As defined in the Microsoft Internet Dictionary: stability. n.. Not TOO unstable.

      • Re:XP - Longhorn (Score:5, Interesting)

        by NanoGator ( 522640 ) on Wednesday March 16, 2005 @08:41PM (#11960887) Homepage Journal
        " I still don't see the benefits of XP over 2000 as a lowly end-user."

        I use XP-pro at work, 2k at home. When I'm at home, there are a few reasons I'd rather have xP. I'm not trying to talk you into switching to XP (I doubt you'd be all that happy if you did) but I figured I'd share in case you or anybody else is considering it.

        1.) I like ClearType. YMMV.
        2.) XP's image viewer is nice for viewing sequences of images. Some of you probably know what I'm implying. ;)
        3.) You can run multiple simultaneous users on XP. Mildly nice, but if you're the only user, hardly worth mentioning.
        4.) You can actually LOCK the taskbar so you don't accidently drag that around. I'm extremely hacked off that I can't do this in 2k. Because of this feature, my Task-bar is quite useful since I've tweaked it.
        5.) Grouping of common tasks (i.e. several folder windows) and system tray items takes a little getting used to, but in some cases it's very useful. (Potentially annoying, too. But you can always choose.)
        6.) The start menu shows the most recently used stuff. Not the greatest whoop-de-doo ever, but I have to admit I've saved a little time as a result of it.

        XP has grown on me. I haven't had stability or security issues with 2K or XP so I can't tell you that it's better or worse in that regard. 2K to XP is sort of like getting a moon-roof for your car. You pay more for it, and it has its uses, but you probably wouldn't miss it if you didn't get it.

        Okay, I'm not being terribly on-topic here, but I imagine there are people out there wondering if 2K to XP is worthwhile.
        • Interesting comment -- I just moved from 98 to 2K last year, and while the family has XP on some machines, I don't like it for my own use. I am concerned that Longhorn will be more of the same, with the added harm that 2K support will get worse.

          Of course the real topic is back-porting Longhorn features to XP. Since I'm not enthusiastic about XP, I'm not expecting to make much use of those features unless/until some killer app makes it worth my while. I used OS/2 until its Win3.1 subsystem became too out
          • I hear ya, man. I just wanted to touch on one little part, though:

            "I don't play with the taskbar."

            Before I start, I just want to mention that I'm not preaching to ya or anything. :)

            I really think that XP's taskbar is one of the most underrated features of this OS. (Actually, most of what I find useful about it started with 98...) You can do some really slick stuff with it. For example: I have 'my computer' linked to it like the Quicklaunch bar. I have all the drives ready to go just by clicking o
            • For example: I have 'my computer' linked to it like the Quicklaunch bar.

              That's what the Desktop toolbar is supposed to be for. You get My Computer as a flyout, and you also get to see what else you might have left on your desktop, My Network Places, or whatever, without minimizing any active apps.

              Of course, My Computer is already under the Start menu, but that's a whole extra click-and-move-mouse away. :)
          • Comment removed based on user account deletion

          • Re:XP - Longhorn (Score:2, Informative)

            by laard ( 35526 )
            I *hate* how XP's Start menu dynamically hides not-recently-used items

            I've seen a lot of people complain about this as well as other changes like not having My Computer on the desktop by default, etc. On my XP machine it takes 5 clicks to make the start menu and the desktop act like windows 2000...

            1. Right click on taskbar
            2. Click Properties
            3. Click the Start Menu tab
            4. Select "Classic Start Menu"
            5. Click "OK"

            The look of the start button and windows etc can also be easily changed to resemble windows 20

        • Re:XP - Longhorn (Score:3, Informative)

          by McCart42 ( 207315 )
          "2.) XP's image viewer is nice for viewing sequences of images."


          I actually prefer IrfanView [irfanview.com] for this purpose on my W2K install. It has many more options than the built-in XP image viewer, such as lossless JPG rotation.
        • Well I use XP and 2000 at home and XP at work. I always switch XP to look like 2000 as much as I can. No taskbar grouping, no system tray grouping, the "Classic" theme, the works. I generally use everything as fake CLI (WindowKey + M, then the command, with shortcuts in \WINDOWS\ or \WINNT\ like "fax" which opens up a new fax cover sheet in Word). I don't really use multiple users, so honestly that's about it.

          There are some minor things I like about XP but for the most part, I can't really tell what OS is

    • Re:XP - Longhorn (Score:5, Informative)

      by SnprBoB86 ( 576143 ) on Wednesday March 16, 2005 @08:09PM (#11960581) Homepage

      Everyone is forgetting about Aero

      Alvon [microsoft.com] is to Quartz [apple.com] as Aero [microsoft.com] is to Aqua [apple.com]

      Aero is not being backported to WinXP. Avalon, Indigo, and WinFS are going to be supported of WinXP; this makes Aero THE reason to upgrade to Longhorn.
      • Ooh! I think I get it. Avalon is MS trying to copy Quartz (and failing), just as Aero will be MS trying to copy Aqua (and failing).

        2400 on the SAT's here I come!

        What? They took out the analogies? Those insensitive clods!

      • Re:XP - Longhorn (Score:3, Insightful)

        by dioscaido ( 541037 )
        Aero will definitely be the most immediate reason for consumers to upgrade, since it will give the windows UI some 'pizzazz'. The underlying kernel is completely revamped, but unfortunately that's something that the desktop user won't notice (except for, one hopes, increased stability, etc...). Visually, the upgrade from 98 to 2000 wasn't very convincing, while the underlying kernel outclassed 98 in every respect.

  • Anything useful in Longhorn? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by ajiva ( 156759 ) on Wednesday March 16, 2005 @07:19PM (#11960062)
    Is it me or nothing MS is pitching in Longhorn sounds that exciting? A new version of COM+, wow how exciting!

    For ONCE, I want a newer version of Windows to be faster and smaller than the previous version and more stable as well.
    • Not sure about you, but I think that Avalon [microsoft.com] is fairly exciting...

    • Re:Anything useful in Longhorn? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by pla ( 258480 ) on Wednesday March 16, 2005 @07:28PM (#11960176) Journal
      For ONCE, I want a newer version of Windows to be faster and smaller than the previous version and more stable as well.

      Windows 2003 actually satisfies that requirement, by a solid margin.

      However, Microsoft never decided to release it in a non-server version... And if you've never tried running a server version as a home version, well, you have no idea how many otherwise "free" (as in beer but not speech) programs will refuse to run.

      As an aside, you can trick 2003 into identifying itself as XP with only two tweaks to the install CD. I will not disclose them for fear of invoking the Legal Wrath of the Gates, but with a Google search for similar hacks to Win2k, you can probably figure out what to change. And no, the well-known product version switchers out there that worked on 2k will not work, and will actually render your system unbootable if they manage to do anything at all. Really, trust me on this, I tried both of them.
    • "Is it me or nothing MS is pitching in Longhorn sounds that exciting? "

      That depends: Whenever Microsoft announces something, everybody on Slashdot is suddenly a minimalist. "Oh, I don't REALLY need a scrollwheel."

      Whatever.

      I'm personally excited about their vector based UI. There's a couple of reasons I'm digging it:

      1.) Some of the UI (the most important part for a good deal of computing) will be offloaded from the main processor to the GPU. Reality may tell a different tale, but I'm happy about th

  • First exploit! (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Tackhead ( 54550 ) on Wednesday March 16, 2005 @07:19PM (#11960066)
    > Indigo is a new communications system intended to let Windows programs more easily connect to other software.

    I've got a great idea. Now that all the DCOM holes have been plugged (either at the OS, or at the firewall, or both), let's pick a new port number that'll be open and listening to the world by default, and on which all the OS components will have to rely.

    The goal of Indigo is to simplify the process of building distributed applications, where software components communicate across a network using Web services protocols. For example, the Indigo communications system will allow an application written with Microsoft's .Net tools to share information with a Java application without the need for special code to bridge the two systems.

    For bonus points, I'll justify this by saying that it makes something that sounds really cool on paper if you're a CTO, but is actually the first line from the functional spec for "A platform for writing remote exploits" to anybody with even a millineuron of cynicism left in their brain.

  • One Liners (Score:4, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 16, 2005 @07:20PM (#11960073)
    Why didn't they just call it Purple People Eater and get the whole "scary" thing over with?

    Will Prince's 1999 be the theme song for this technology or will they choose Purple Rain?

    Will they get the Indigo Girls to do a version of Galileo that goes "how long til they get the software right?"

    My name is Indigo Montoya -- you killed my father, prepare to die!
  • From TFA:

    The goal of Indigo is to simplify the process of building distributed applications, where software components communicate across a network using Web services protocols. For example, the Indigo communications system will allow an application written with Microsoft's .Net tools to share information with a Java application without the need for special code to bridge the two systems.

    I'm sorry, but this sounds like a recipe for making windows security even worse. There are enough cross-network/cross-

    • Re:Cool - A malware framework. (Score:4, Informative)

      by The Bungi ( 221687 ) <thebungi@gmail.com> on Wednesday March 16, 2005 @07:29PM (#11960182) Homepage
      The article mentioned "WS-Security" - but I have no idea what that is

      That's probably your problem. It's a standard used with SOAP message exchanges. It provides authentication, integrity and confidentiality (nee encryption and a few other things).

      As long as you trust the .NET framework (as far as its ability to protect you from, say, buffer overflows) then the WSS implementation for Indigo should be safe enough to use. It would be no different from anything written with JNI, for example.

    • There's a lot of FUD flying around here at the moment... Check here for info on WS-Security [ibm.com].

      All this talk about blocking ports and security problems seems fairly unfounded -- Indigo is simply a way of using Web Services for app-to-app communication, while taking advantage of the latest WS security mechanisms.

      I can't see it being less secure than Java Web Service calls, or HTTP communication in general. Just my 2c.


    • They way that quote reads, I could just grab any Java app and suddenly be able to read it's data in some .NET app? Across the network? Sigh. This is just going to spur another 500 books about this interoperability mechanism, 500,000,000 developers will start talking about it like its the greatest thing ever, and after two years only 5,000 developers will have figured it out to actually use it. I do not welcome our vague marketing information driving mass adoption before the technology is ready overlords
    • software components communicate across a network using Web services protocols.
      That bit of the article identifies it as pure marketing drivel obviously writen by someone that knows less than the average high school computer user - beware of folks who capitilize web - you can bet they are not talking about TCP/IP on port 80 and as far as they are concearned anything that goes down the wire is "Web services". All this article gives us that can be relied on is a name.

  • Re: WinXP - Longhorn (Score:3, Interesting)

    by AdityaG ( 842691 ) on Wednesday March 16, 2005 @07:21PM (#11960093) Homepage
    They are not going to give these away for free. You will have to pay to get these products for XP. Either way. I think Longhorn will be much better in the sense that you will finally have an OS that is both awesome looking yet more functional. The whole deal with using CSS type files to control interfaces for example is the most attractive thing for me from longhorn, besides the fact that I can finally shut up some mac fanatics who take about the mac being "prettier" (although XP came quite a way in making things look better).
    • The whole deal with using CSS type files to control interfaces
      C:\WINNT> ren explorer.exe explorer.old
      C:\WINNT> copy firefox.exe explorer.exe
      • Warning Windows have detected that some critical files have been replaced. Windows will now replace them with back up copies.
        All your user-interface are belong to us.

      • Re: WinXP - Longhorn (Score:3, Interesting)

        by NanoGator ( 522640 )
        "C:\WINNT> copy firefox.exe explorer.exe"

        This doesn't work on XP. Explorer.exe is automatically restored when you mess with it. Of course, it'll be assumed that this is because Microsoft is enforcing a monopoly instead of it simply being a security feature.
        • This doesn't work on XP. Explorer.exe is automatically restored when you mess with it. Of course, it'll be assumed that this is because Microsoft is enforcing a monopoly instead of it simply being a security feature.

          of course, i could just log in as administrator and do it and it would stick, right?

          i mean, the operating system wouldn't prevent me, as machine owner and admin, from doing something i wanted to do, would it?

        • Actually, you can replace the shell in XP. I messed around with GeoShell for a while. It's actually pretty nice.

          GeoShell [geoshell.com]
    • At once I felt trapped into a time warp ; I swear I read the same sentence when NT 4 was announced (plus or minus a few cosmetic details). Same old BS, at the time it was already a cold marketing ploy, nowdays, it's smelling like a rotten corpse.

    • Re: WinXP - Longhorn (Score:4, Interesting)

      by pla ( 258480 ) on Wednesday March 16, 2005 @08:13PM (#11960623) Journal
      although XP came quite a way in making things look better

      Hey, I have fond memories of Fisher Price products from my youth as well. But when I sit down at a computer, I don't want flashbacks to using a Speak n Spell (unless I run it as an emulator [speaknspell.co.uk] (Yeah, I know, TI made it, not Fisher Price, but you get the idea).

      It really, truly horrifies me that people actually like XP's interface. As the first thing I (and every single competant computer user I know, without exception, N>40) do when setting up an XP box, I disable the themes service. Poof, no more craptastic prettified round window edges taking up valuable screen real-estate.
      • As the first thing I (and every single competant computer user I know, without exception, N>40) do when setting up an XP box, I disable the themes service. Poof, no more craptastic prettified round window edges taking up valuable screen real-estate.

        is it possible to replace the window manager on a windows box? i recently held my nose and tried litestep on a win2k machine, and though it was kind of nice, i still had to put up with the windows window manager.

    • I agree with you that XP came a long way in terms of a functional UI, but there's still some pretty bad problems. Namely, there's a lot of examples of what Kai Krauss calls "Boeing Cockpit Syndrome" where you have a window with just too much stuff in it (preference windows, etc).

      Those first leaked screenshots of longhorn (the only ones I've seen) seem to take it to the next level with more buttons along the top of the explorer windows, more widgets in the start bar and hella more crap on that sidebar thing
  • "By making Avalon and Indigo work on older machines, Microsoft hopes more developers will want to write software that takes advantage of the new technologies" I guess .Net isn't selling fast enough.

  • Like they say... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Sheetrock ( 152993 ) on Wednesday March 16, 2005 @07:23PM (#11960120) Homepage Journal
    "First they laugh at you, then they ignore you, then they fight you, then you win."

    This, Avalon, and WinFS are all jokeworthy now, but at least one of these if not all of them will see decent implementation in GNU/Linux three to five years after they're being used in Longhorn, at which point Microsoft will have the replacement ready for release.

    It might even have a better interface than Apple, spawning a whole new series of Longhorn themes for X-Windows.

    • Re:Like they say... (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Linux is actually ahead on two of them, at least:

      http://www.cairogrpahics.org/ [cairogrpahics.org] is bringing avalon-like stuff to linux, and you can download early versions now.

      http://www.gnome.org/~seth/storage/ [gnome.org] is bringing WinFS/google-desktop -like stuff to [gnome desktop] linux at the user interface level (and Hans Reiser is still saying he's going to do it at the system level, unlike Microsoft's revised WinFS approach), and you can download early versions now.

      (Why patents on the areas in question are particularly s

      • Re:Like they say... (Score:3, Insightful)

        by natrius ( 642724 ) *
        If you're going to talk about WinFS/Google Desktop/Spotlight analogues, at least refer to something that actually seems to be developed actively. Beagle [gnome.org] is actually usable already, and from the beginning, provided both a method for programmers to provide their own filters for file types, as well as a way to access search results from another application, unlike the offerings in the Windows world.

        On an offtopic note, Microsoft is screwed if developers start using the Google Desktop API [google.com]. All it takes is one

  • Upset (Score:2, Interesting)

    by noelo ( 661375 )
    "Indigo will replace the five different programming methods that Microsoft has today for sending messages between two programs in a distributed system, said Ari Bixhorn, the lead product manager for Web services strategy at Microsoft." Hmm....Thats going to upset a lot of people who use those methods. There gonna be a lot of porting work to be done....

  • Breaking News! (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 16, 2005 @07:28PM (#11960173)
    Indigo security exploit discovered.

    Nah, just kidding. That will never happen.

  • What a drag ... (Score:4, Funny)

    by foobsr ( 693224 ) * on Wednesday March 16, 2005 @07:35PM (#11960248) Homepage Journal
    ... how Indigo is treated these days.

    From the colour of the year [macworld.co.uk], the 6th [solarraven.com] chakra or a hype system [g-lenerz.de] to M$ software.

    Sheesh.

    CC.

  • In they go! (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Nikkodemus ( 763778 )
    Indigo is a new communications system intended to let Worms and Script Kiddies more easily connect to other software.

    Indego, in they go!

  • This will change everything. (Score:5, Funny)

    by blacklite001 ( 453622 ) on Wednesday March 16, 2005 @07:38PM (#11960278)
    I'm really glad to hear this. DDE, I mean, COM, I mean, I mean, OLE, I mean, DCOM, oh no wait, ActiveX, er, COM+, uh, LOL, um, Indigo! will be really great.
  • It loads up system restore to boot you PC back to its initial state, back to latest rescue point, and back to some random restore point in between; consequently rendering the machine useless. It'll then use visual sudio and compile a custom-tailored-to-your-pc version of itself for optimal performance, tweak your SAM file to an impossibly hard to guess password, and send you a message on MSNM saying:

    I love MS exploits, don't you?

    A reboot follows, right after changing you background wallpaper to goatse.

  • Pillars of Longhorn? (Score:5, Funny)

    by nxtr ( 813179 ) on Wednesday March 16, 2005 @07:45PM (#11960341)
    With the way they're promoting Longhorn, you could swear it was a religion [wikipedia.com]. Next, they'll declare a jihad on Linux.
  • What happened to COM+? DCOM? SOAP? All the other moving targets for distributed app integration?

  • Indigo Is Appropriate (Score:5, Interesting)

    by buckhead_buddy ( 186384 ) on Wednesday March 16, 2005 @08:19PM (#11960666)
    When Sir Isaac Newton looked at the continuous spectrum of white light dispersed through a prism, his superstitious mind couldn't bear to name only six colors. Being that six was a number of the devil and that there were seven planets and seven notes he added the dark blue "indigo" color in as one of his fundamental colors of light to round out the number of colors to seven.

    For centuries, Indigo used to be a very valuable dye; the exclusive looking deep blue color was a sign of wealth. Of course that "exclusivity" went down the toilet when they developed synthetic indigo in 1905 and everyone with a new pair of blue jeans could have some of that exclusivity.

    It sounds like a good name for a Microsoft product.

  • One of the main causes of security problems in Windows is the ease in which Windows programs can interact with the operating system and each other on a low-level without the interference of proper security restrictions. Nothing about this "new" communications system leads me to believe it will be any different.

    Windows will never be secure until and unless Microsoft changes its design philosophy to something a little more paranoid, and a lot less "let's all be friends".

    • Re:Windows Insecurity By Design: The Beat Goes On (Score:4, Insightful)

      by dioscaido ( 541037 ) on Wednesday March 16, 2005 @09:11PM (#11961136)
      Admit it... you don't know much about windows, do you? Log into windows XP SP2 (or for bonus points Windows 2003) as a Limited user account (read: Not Administrator), and write me a program that can modify low-level features of the machine, or any system configuration for that matter (outside the config specific for your user). You can't. Windows has robust Access Control system (more granular than many standard linux distros that depend on unix filesystem perms for security [yes i know patched kernels exist with ACLs, which is great]).

      It's just a pity that the managers for XP chose to have everyone run as Administrator so as not to confuse grandma. Thankfully, Longhorn will, out of the box, make your desktop account non-admin.
  • Microsoft will be commiting a classical software engineering management risk-reduction mistake.

    Indigo will replace the five different programming methods that Microsoft has today for sending messages between two programs in a distributed system, said Ari Bixhorn, the lead product manager for Web services strategy at Microsoft. The software will use a number of the more recent Web services protocols, including WS-Security and WS-Reliable Messaging, he said.

    Never plan around one technology, or in this c

    • You really hit the nail on the head there.

      The last thing we need is another closed "under the hood" protocol out there that allows programs to interface with other programs "seamlessly". Virus and Trojan writers will most likely figure out exploits quickly.

      Meanwhile, I'm still figuring out how to uninstall Internet Explorer. I've been trying to figure that out since 1996.

  • Am I the only one... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by sootman ( 158191 ) on Wednesday March 16, 2005 @09:59PM (#11961455) Homepage Journal
    ... who hears the voice of a pseudo-scientific Monty Python narrator as I read this? "Indigo was one of the three original "pillars" of Longhorn, however under the new plan it will be re-tooled to work with Windows XP and Windows Server 2003, in addition to Longhorn, which will, in fact, never ship."

  • Is anyone else getting a funny feeling that just maybe Longhorn will never make it out the door?

    I'm wondering if by the time the market is ripe for Longhorn (ie, enough of us can justify the more expensive hardware it needs that it stands a chance of competing in the market), there will be too many of us who will be migrating core pieces of our daily work to thin client models that run on established internet protocols. As that migration starts to pick up steam, it is going to become increasingly importan

    • Longhorn has already made it out the door.

      You make the same common mistake people made with "Chicago", "Cairo", and "Memphis".
      You assume that the project name is meant to
      lead to the release of only one product or
      service on the Windows platform.

      While the dream is to release some all-encompassing product that becomes the next
      killer app, the reality at MS has been to spin
      off technologies where they can during the
      development process. Both to make the eventual
      release easier to swallow, and to get all the
      buzzw

  • Who is the target audience? (Score:4, Informative)

    by ChicagoDave ( 644806 ) on Thursday March 17, 2005 @12:22AM (#11962335) Homepage
    I've read through much of the witty banter on /. regarding Indigo, Longhorn, Avalon, and WinFS.

    I can only assume that the people that understand how XML, Web Services, Service Oriented Architecture, Enterprise Application Integration effect large corporations have remained silent.

    The people that have replied have stated clearly that they don't know what Web Services are, have never worked with XML, and don't understand how EAI has changed the way businesses do things.

    Indigo is an extraordinary technology that will very likely be copied by IBM for Java (IBM and Microsoft both partnered on all of the WS-* standards) and will usher in a whole new era of interoperability for the business world.

    If you're even the slightest bit curious about what this is all about I suggest the following reading material:

    http://www.ws-standards.com/ [ws-standards.com]

    http://community.java.net/java-ws-xml/ [java.net]

    http://msdn.microsoft.com/Longhorn/understanding/ [microsoft.com]p illars/Indigo/default.aspx

    WinFX Indigo Docs [microsoft.com]

    http://pluralsight.com/blogs/tewald/default.aspx [pluralsight.com] I'm sure there is a lot more.

  • Cassandra's history of Indigo (Score:5, Insightful)

    by blackhedd ( 412389 ) on Thursday March 17, 2005 @01:07AM (#11962533)
    This started out as practically a greenfield project within MS with a brand new team at least five years ago. It's being done by incredibly competent people, and they have done a huge amount of work on interoperability issues- that whole raft of WS standards represents solutions to a whole range of issues that no else is really confronting. And I'm not saying they've solved them in an ideal way but as long as no one else puts anything out there that is less proprietary, they will jump out in front here. Remember how they eventually "got" the Internet?
    Those of us who love F/OSS and Linux need to be less dismissive and more frightened.
    MS is fragmented and balkanized internally but there are pockets of real capability. Web Services have not achieved anywhere near the level of adoption they could/should have by now (to all you trolls: the few dozen desultory SOAP projects at your company prove my point, not disprove it). And that's because of lack of "security," which boils down to lack of widely supported standards. We gotta be more proactive about this, and not make the same mistakes we are making in regard to Avalon.

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