Comment Spams Straining Servers Running MT 186
dJ phuturecybersonique writes "Netcraft reports that 'Comment spam attacks on Movable Type weblogs are straining servers at web hosting companies, leading some providers to disable comments on the popular blogging tool. The issues are caused by bugs in MT, forcing publisher Six Apart to recommend configuration changes while it prepares fixes.' More..."
Wow (Score:3, Funny)
So it's dead? (Score:2, Funny)
Re:So it's dead? (Score:2)
Hold on -- blogging was once alive?
Whoa.
Easy Solution (Score:1)
Re:Easy Solution (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Easy Solution (Score:2)
Hmm... semi off-topic, but it would be neat if search engines like Google could be trained to ignore negative score Slashdot comments. On systems where there's built-in feedback, that would be one way to combat the spam, just train the search engine crawlers to ignore comments with poor scores.
EricSee your HTTP headers [ericgiguere.com]
Re:Easy Solution (Score:1)
Re:Easy Solution (Score:3, Informative)
it would be neat if search engines like Google could be trained to ignore negative score Slashdot comments
Given that the static page is written at a Score:1 threshold, and that Google obeys Slashdot's suggestion in robots.txt not to index the dynamic pages, this is already the case.
Re:Easy Solution (Score:1)
Ease of use is going to win every time.
Because spambots don't care (Score:2)
Not just comment spam (Score:4, Interesting)
The best solution for me:
1. User email address verification
2. server generated images to verify real user for registration
3. Regular cookie expiration after x amount of time
4. host filtering (referr filtering usually gets ride of "freepers" unless they open a new window
However - nothing beats good moderators, quality users and sticking to your nich. Don't go pissing people off tossing your blog around the world yourself and not expect to get anything in return.
It's a jungle out there
Re:Not just comment spam (Score:4, Informative)
that's not the usage in this context (Score:2)
Re:Not just comment spam (Score:2)
Re:Not just comment spam (Score:2)
The Slashdot effect is more mindless.
Re:Not just comment spam (Score:2)
Re:Not just comment spam (Score:3, Informative)
The worst part of being a slashdot member is watching people devistate and ruin a server because of childish acts of vandalism.
Take for instance whenever slash points towards wikipedia, within minutes the page will be modified to some trolls' agenda.
Having to wade through the crapflood of comments on blogs and forums after slash has been there is almost embarassing sometimes.
The servers can generally cope with a slashdotting and work perfectly just hours or days after the initial hit, howeve
Re:Not just comment spam (Score:1)
I don't know if something like that have already been done but there was a paper on neural networks used to crack captchas. It was very efficient on basic text (even with a medium amount of distortion) and showed that intelligent spam bots could be written in the future (not that I want to scare you though
Re:Not just comment spam (Score:2)
The question becomes one of spam. Whether it's in your email box, or the comments of your blog, it's the same.
You want it to be easy to filter out the spam and still make it easy for legitimate readers to make comments.
Looking at the slashdot system, a mail-verified registration system seems to be mostly sufficient.
On my blog the spambot was putting porn weblinks into the webfield, and a generic 'dude th
Re:Not just comment spam (Score:1)
Re:Not just comment spam (Score:1)
I really hate it when web sites do that. Does anyone know of a Mozilla plug-in or something that will let me edit the expiration date of any cookie, preferably when the cookie is being set?
Re:Not just comment spam (Score:2)
Ofcourse you could also just regenerate the cookies bsaed upon post scoring - for example if people get modded up lengthen cookie time and such because there is some trust being given.
Give a reward for participation of sorts
Re:Not just comment spam (Score:1)
server generated images to verify real user for registration
Use a visual CAPTCHA and completely disrespect readers with impaired vision.
not such a big deal (Score:2)
Hey, those people can still read your blog. They just can't post comments to it. In the context of all the other shit they're prevented from doing because of blindness, it's not such a big deal.
Re:Not just comment spam (Score:3, Insightful)
Correcting lack of access to text on the Internet is easy: just buy a PC with a screen reader and an account with an ISP. Correcting lack of access to distorted images of text on the Internet, on the other hand, is non-trivial: if the CAPTCHAs are easy enough for blind people's OCR, then they're easy enough for spammers' OCR. If you must use a CAPTCHA, then make it something other than an image. Ask yourself: what questions can a blind person answer that a spambot can't?
Re:Not just comment spam (Score:2)
Audio questions. Livejournal (blech) uses that for registration.
Re:Not just comment spam (Score:2)
Old news. (Score:3, Insightful)
Shame on them.
Netcraft confirms ex-MT users love WordPress (Score:5, Informative)
First and foremost, it's free (speech and beer) and distributed under the GPL.
Second, the actual developers of the software actually participate in the support forums [wordpress.org], so if you do have a question, it's likely to be answered very fast by someone intimately familiar with the software.
Third, it's a lot less susceptible to comment spam, especially after applying a few plugins and hacks [wordpress.org]. I've never received a single one, and that's not for lack of spammers trying.
Fourth, it's very easy to customize the look and feel of the site without knowing any PHP. HTML and CSS is about all you need to know. Knowing PHP helps a lot if you want to really customize it, but it isn't a requirement.
Finally, they've already included a Movable Type import utility [carthik.net], so those of you who are sick of MT for this and many other reasons [cafefort.com] can move over with little hassle.
Signed,
A very happy WordPress user and occasional contributor.
Definitely (Score:2)
I share my MT installation with my brother. Not surprisingly, we like having our own weblogs. MT now charges for something that simple.
The fact that Wordpress is released under the GPL an
Re:Definitely (Score:2)
Re:Netcraft confirms ex-MT users love WordPress (Score:3, Interesting)
Of course, all of this is fixable, and just calls for more people to jump in and get involved. I learned a bit of PHP and
multiple blogs (Score:2)
Re:multiple blogs (Score:3, Informative)
Re:multiple blogs (Score:1)
(As an aside, solid multiple blog and multiple user support is one of Movable Type's best features, and it irks me that so many MT plugin developers write their code under the assumption that every MT installation only has a single user.)
Re:Netcraft confirms ex-MT users love WordPress (Score:2)
The current version is buggy (password reset, no way to link to user's profile, etc), but runs well enough and now that MT costs money I'm sure there will be more WP users out there soon. Then again, blogger is great for t
Re:Netcraft confirms ex-MT users love WordPress (Score:2)
Re:Netcraft confirms ex-MT users love WordPress (Score:2)
I posted this problem to the fo
Re:Netcraft confirms ex-MT users love WordPress (Score:2)
comment spams made me switch (Score:3, Informative)
I had to ditch Moveable Type explicitly due to comment spam. The real problem with it was that there was no way to delete more than one at a time. The web app only displays the last five comments and then you have to go digging through every article to find the other spams. Real pain in the ass. I switched to Wordpress, which is also beseiged by comment spam from Online Poker outfits. In Wordpress [wordpress.org], however, you can mass-edit with all comments listed with checkboxes to delete whichever are spams.
In Moveable Type and Wordpress, you can pretty much eliminate the script-driven spambots by renaming the comment cgi handler and then editing all other files that reference it. I didn't think of this till after I swtiched to Wordpress, though.
Re:comment spams made me switch (Score:2)
That looks a lot more robost than MT (mind you I'm still using 2.65). When this whole comments thing started getting out of hand, I actually edited every damn post since last year to be comments-closed.
Maybe I'll switch too. I was planning to do a redesign during the break. Does it have pretty versatile templating?
Re:comment spams made me switch (Score:2)
Much improve and appreciated. I also turn on comment moderation and this fixed the problems I had with comment spam.
Re:comment spams made me switch (Score:2)
I'm a user at TextDrive, and a bunch of users and admins there have a mailing list where we are VERY aggressive in defeating spam. mod_security is great for blocking based on the contents of a POST payload ("contains texas holdem? Sorry, you get an Error 412.") and mod_dosevasive, which is grea
Re:comment spams made me switch (Score:2)
mt-blacklist (Score:2)
I installed mt-blaclist [jayallen.org], which pretty much solved the problem for me. It allows you to search by regular expression and massively de-spam and blacklist the urls they point to. All subsequent comments containing those urls or other known spam expressions get trashed automatically.
Re:comment spams made me switch (Score:3, Informative)
Re:comment spams made me switch (Score:2)
Re:comment spams made me switch (Score:2)
B) If there is, is it wise for the TypeKeys to ban first and investigate later?
C) Why would banning by IP addresses by effective at the TypeKey level when it's already been proven to be ineffective at the individual weblog level? Spammers certainly don't restrict themselves to a single IP. I thought it was already well-established among those who are fighting comment spam that banning by IP address is pointless.
Re:comment spams made me switch (Score:3, Interesting)
Perhaps this was added in version 3.x, but you certainly can delete more than one comment at a time in Movable Type, and there is no need to "dig through" each post to find the latest comments, whatever the number. I believe that the comments page displays 20 comments at a time by default. It's unfortunate, though, that Six Apart pissed everyone off by licensing 3.x as they did, or more people would be taking advantage of 3.x's small but worthwhile improvements.
I agree with other posters that renaming
Re:comment spams made me switch (Score:2)
A few "delete from mt_comment where...", and one rebuild later (back in the web admin tool) it was all done. Very little fuss.
Of course, this talk of alternatives has me interested anyway...
A simplistic solution (Score:4, Interesting)
If your case is like mine, where mt is stored in a directory just off of your public web site, do this: use a .htaccess to put a password on your whole MT directory. They can't access comments.cgi (assuming it's just a bot doing the spamming), they can't post comments. I don't really like the idea of people touching my CGIs anyway. Make sure your robots.txt excludes the MT directory as well.
That is, assuming you don't give a damn about people's comments.
Re:A simplistic solution (Score:2)
Who posts comments on websites anyway? It's not like anyone reads them.
Re:A simplistic solution (Score:2)
For the most part, the only people who read it are a few close friends and my girlfriend. I mostly use it as a design testbed and a place to rant.
However, there's nothing preventing you from giving your password out to some of your friends, or even putting it on the webpage itself. In a gif, better yet. The scripts that run these things aren't that smart, and clearly the 1000 odd posts on my website weren't done by a human. I'm not important enough..
Now then... (Score:1)
Re:Now then... (Score:2, Informative)
Why your Moveable Type blog must die (Score:2, Funny)
Every last one of you. You're all latte-sipping, iMac-using, suburban-living tertiary-industry-working WASPs who offer absolutely no new insights on anything whatsoever apart from maybe one specialist field if we're lucky.
Quite an enjoyable rant.
xox,
Dead Nancy
Re:Why your Moveable Type blog must die (Score:3, Funny)
I live in the urbs, I drink cappuccinos, and I work for an academic research unit. My computer is not an iMac, but a PC with XP and Slackware. I'm a euromutt of catholic derivation, and I have pretty broad interests.
But that's pretty damn funny, I'll admit. They forgot, though, that they're all writing dark fantasy novels which will never be published.
There are far too many weblog addicts out there who are excessively vain, and are under some kind of bizarre pretense that they matter, and they seem to e
Re:Why your Moveable Type blog must die (Score:2)
Or Kuro5hin readers...
Re: flamebait my ass (Score:2)
Nucleus CMS (Score:1)
Re:Nucleus CMS (Score:2)
I've seen this observation mentioned once before, and I'd like to see this explored further. It seems that spammers are harvesting URLs from sites like weblogs.com [weblogs.com] and blo.gs [blo.gs]. I don't doubt that their finding blogs via Google searches, though, so turning off update notifications is probably a temporary solution at best.
challenge the user (Score:5, Informative)
Re:challenge the user (Score:3, Insightful)
Captchas are currently great for weeding out automated spammers; unfortunately, they're also great at weeding out people who cannot see. This unnecessarily renders your site inaccessible to a portion of your audience. From a geekier perspective, this sort of assumption-laden web design runs completely contrary to the accessible, device-independent spirit of the original WWW.
Of course, since the blog you linked doesn't even work at all as I write this, maybe you're not concerned with accessibility for
Re:challenge the user (Score:2)
I have seen this sort of challenge with an audio option for the sight-impaired. I'll see if that's an option for us.
In the meantime, if my choice were between having the spam and this accessibility problem, I'll put up with the accessibility problem for now and look for a solution to it. The spam was intolerable and the only thing blind users are denied is the ability to post.
Re:challenge the user (Score:2)
DotComments (Score:2)
SixApart is partly to blame (Score:2)
Personally I think MT needs to just scrap the entire comment system and start over again. They need to implement
Re:SixApart is partly to blame (Score:2)
This is exactly why we DON'T need "won't someone think of the children" legislation. You're going to put up with massive censorship because of some blog spam that can be easily fixed with typekey, blacklists, etc? For some useless blog comments we're going to censor the web? Wow. Amazing, how Americans can even suggest such a thing. So much for the land of the free, eh?
Like all mediums, parents should be making sure their children ar
Re:SixApart is partly to blame (Score:2)
Can someone fill me in? (Score:2)
If the issue is posting of URLs, then it should be a simple matter of the blog site checking any URLs against SURBL [surbl.org], a spam URL blocklist.
What am I missing here? When did this become such a huge issue?
Re:Can someone fill me in? (Score:4, Informative)
- spam bots attack WP and MT through various means, one of the most common being to simply POST to the mt-comments.cgi or wp-comments-post.php URLs on peoples sites
- the bots mainly post huge amounts of links to stupid websites, like viagra or poker strategy. the goal is to get a higher google ranking by having links from many different sites
- the biggest problem for WP users is that you get flooded with literally hundreds of comments per day. if you have good filtering you'll at worst just have to sit around and delete some manually
- the biggest problem for MT users(or that MT users cause) is that because of the poor design of MT, the comments script takes up a huge amount of CPU time. apparently it actually goes through the process of rebuilding the static post pages even when comments are moderated or auto-deleted. now imagine you have 500 posts and they all get hit at the same time - it's something close to a forkbomb on the server
The best solution to all of this is to find a way to prevent the stuff from ever getting posted. Once it's submitted you're going to have to analyze it in some way and decide if its SPAM or its good. There are some simple solutions like renaming the comment post scripts, and some more complicated ones like using a verification number or requiring users to register. In any case, it's a very major problem for almost anyone with a blog.
Re:Can someone fill me in? (Score:2)
Re:Can someone fill me in? (Score:2)
All this prevents the simplistic SPAM bots from just POSTing to your cgi scripts and forces them to jump through hoops
Re:Can someone fill me in? (Score:2, Informative)
The funny thing is that we (another weblog system, but suffering from the same problem) are seeing a lot of spam posts recently where they put the link text into the href attribute and the actual URL as the link text. Not sure what they're trying to accomplish w
Obligatory OSS Advocacy (Score:1, Troll)
There, HAND.
yep (Score:1)
NoIndex HTML Tag (Score:3, Insightful)
But isn't that the kind of area you would want? (Score:2)
Perhaps Google could recognize a Moveable Type site and just ignore comments from them.
Reusable Proofs of Work (Score:4, Interesting)
It occured to me thought that what would really fix this is to push the load onto the spammers by building a Reusable Proofs of Work (RPOW) [cryptome.org] system.
For those who are unfamiliar, RPOW is a proposal to stop mail spam by asking the sender to do a little "work" that would make sending a lot emails computationally too expensive.
As I'm in the last throws of my PhD I'll have to delay on this one, but maybe the lazy web can help out on this one, so the same thing doesn't happen to wordpress or whatever blogging monocultures exist.
Re:Reusable Proofs of Work (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Reusable Proofs of Work (Score:2, Funny)
What's the saving throw vs. dissertation committee?
Re:Reusable Proofs of Work (Score:2)
The reality is, if you are indeed servicing a large userbase who is sending a legitimate volume of E-mail, it will be computationally trivial. As computationally trivial as doing a complicated DNS lookup or a simple MD5 rehash.
Additionally, some of the proposals I've seen allow an end-user to purchase "stamps" directly, offsetting the computational costs of an ISP (this is done by running a Java client on the machine).
Lastly, all of the proposals I've
Re:Reusable Proofs of Work (Score:2)
The whole spammer business model requires the transmission of literally tens of millions of E-mails, essentially at once. That's the whole point of "Proof of Work" systems is that they are computationally cheap for a few, but increasingly expensive as the volume goes up. Much like cracking crypto: if you have the right key, it's trivial, but if you don't, it is quite a challenge.
Wikipedia needs to send E-mails? Oddly enough, I've been a very active participant on Wi
Re:Reusable Proofs of Work (Score:2)
b. Most 16-year-olds are waaay more computer literate than you are giving them credit for. To paraphrase George Carlin: "if they can program their #(%*# VCR, they can bloody well learn how to use.." a tool that says "copy this line and paste it into your registration". If that's even required: the rea
Re:Reusable Proofs of Work (Score:2)
Wasted breath on a fool, apparently.
Hey I here there's already some software for this (Score:2)
Re:Hey I here there's already some software for th (Score:2)
When I was a lad we had the crazy stuff called newsgroups.
You could post to them, they we're threaded, they had an RFC protocol called NNTP and all sorts of programs understood them. Some of them were even moderated.
I wonder what happended to them?
It's tough on us serving from home (Score:1)
Authentication Images (Score:1)
There is a system like this for wordpress called wp-authimage [gudlyf.com] that works quite well. You do have to know a bit of php and it requires GD on your websever, but neither of those things are super-difficult. I used it on a blog I run [thisisagang.org] with some friends and it works quite well. Our comment s
Netcraft? (Score:2)
Sorry, had to plug that one. I run Drupal for my CMS, and lately I've been getting some 'free poker' spams in my comments. I've installed the Spam module and am holding my breath. Do modules like that work in MT?
Time for me to go check my friends MT sites...
CB
CAPTCHA - Politically Incorrect, but effective (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:CAPTCHA - Politically Incorrect, but effective (Score:2)
Not Just Me! (Score:2)
At first, most of the spam was from obviously-fictitious domains. I earned myself weeks of absolute lack of spam by throwing this into
# If an e-mail address is given... ma
Tyranny of the Minority (Score:2)
Just takes a few assholes to ruin a public resource. They're like the people who steal and/or vandalize phonebooks in the public phone booths.
Bring punch to the party, and somebody will want to piss in it.
The problems are bigger than they say (Score:2)
Given that instances of mt-comments.cgi are expensive even when they n
Re:I have a plan (Score:1)
Re:I have a plan (Score:3, Interesting)
For example, they check 2,000 e-mails to earn a dollar, so they check 200 to earn 10 cents. If they make one mistake in that 200, then their entire payment for the 200 goes away.
Besides, you are throwing a human resource at a technology problem and when the technology is fixed, *poof* your business is gone.
In the case of MT the problem isn't the amount of spam, its the way in which static pages are rebuilt
Re:I have a plan (Score:1)
2. Get paid for removing your own comments after a delay to get spam hits.
3. ???
4. Profit!
Re:I have a plan (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Uhh.. it's not that difficult. (Score:2)